Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[xXHappyCrasherXX]

y do people like this u idiots they made him garbage now hes slightley more fun but it stips all of his strength away and i hate ash now it used to be my fave frame rework this stupid rework with an actually fun rework. Y are people liking this " I dont mind ash bladestorm having a rework" right its probably because you dont have him its a waste of time to try to get ash p and ash now hes not cool or fun any more

 

[immoralriot]

I love the rework.He used to bore me , not anymore.

[Ziden_]

After further testing there are some issues with the rework.  The idea is great, but for instance, in Vodyanoi, you may attack multiple targets, but you end up ending bladestorm way too early, and there's a second or two where you cannot move and it leaves you wide open to getting killed.

Doing multiple marks on a high level or tough target doesn't seem to help as you end bladestorm, your clones continue to hit the target, but the target is able to attack you, which is less than ideal.  Furthermore, bladestorm seems to share the traits of the teleport skill (like with fatal teleport augmentation) where enemies can still manipulate you and teleport you out of bladestorm.  

Grineer commanders and enemies in the arena can (after you've begun bladestorming) teleport you mid animation, thus negating a lot of your damage.  Rising storm still does not work with bladestorm, but this is a bug that can be posted elsewhere.

[S0V3REiGN]

I guess its hit or miss with people. Ever since they announced that Bladestorm rework was coming (about a year ago) I switched up my play style so that it would not affect me as much. So now that the rework is here I got to say I am really liking it. The biggest thing for me is being able to go invisible while maneuvering because before having to hit the ground and casting smoke screen was a death sentence (I run him very squishy). The changes to teleport are not that special, I hardly find myself teleporting objects and I still want something more like Itzal's blink than what he currently has. I am a bit disappointed that there was no real change to shrunken, the ability is super generic and doesn't really bring anything useful to the table, its just a generic "well, this power fits the theme" design concept. As for Bladestorm: I am glad that the animation speed is still affected by mods like Primed Fury because the default animation speeds are painful to look at. The damage is still decent and I am glad that i no longer get animation locked onto ancients. The having target enemies to bladestorm is reasonable change but my grip with it is that its VERY buggy. Sometimes the bladestorm is very unresponsive and I have to click 4 multiple times to get it to work. While in bladestorm mode on some maps the colors look pale while in others it looks different, sometimes I dont even know if I am on bladestorm or not. I have gotten stuck where i was not able to come out of bladestom mode. I think the ability needs A LOT tweeking and fixing but the concept is ok.

[RzdAkira]

The changes to Ash's skillset is a really nice change. It made him more versatile.

 

There are some gripes that I have however.

1. I would like it if the marking range and trigger range are two seperate values. Right now, run and gun Ash while having the mark mode is a lot of fun. Marking everyone while killing the high priority and immediatelly releases Blade storm once the high priority dies. The problem is that once the marked enemies run out of the trigger range, the mark will then disappear. Ash will need to mark them again making it more of a hassle. Right now his marking and trigger range is 50m. It would be nicer if they are 50-75 respectively. Making his high Str+Dur and mid Range build more viable 

 

2. Its great that Ash will only need to attack each marked enemies once and letting his clones do the rest. Thats a great improvement! I don't have to wait forever for the animation to end. Its will be way smoother however if Ash just send his clones in the first place. Allowing him to run and gun, reviving teammates, protect the Frost bubble from invading Nullifiers getting to the Excavator. If you feel reluctant to remove Ash's participation in the Bladestorm because the fear of Bladesorm losing its flavour, maybe capping his participation to 3-5 enemies and letting the clones do the rest will be better

Edited November 26, 2016 by RzdAkira
Spellings

[Syvarin]

Okay, I've been playing with Ash's rework for a bit and I'll throw my two cents in.  I realize some of my thoughts are in line with what others have said, but the idea is to add a voice of agreement, not to claim ownership of someone else's ideas.

First the good: another "press 4 to win" has been removed. Ash's Bladestorm was rather cheap, and builds focused on it tended to neglect his first three powers because they were unnecessary.  Since extreme range no longer benefits him, builds for Ash can now focus more on things like power strength and duration.

Now, the unfortunate part: Ash was a one-trick pony and now his trick is pretty lame.  My hope is that our feedback will lead to him being brought back to a state of being interesting enough to use in certain situations, as most Warframes are.

Here's how I would suggest accomplishing that:

Shuriken: As a first power, Shuriken is acceptable. It would be more interesting though if when used from Smokescreen invisibility, it would disarm enemies it hits.

Smokescreen: The area affect of Smokescreen does little to differentiate it from a short duration version of Loki's invisibility. I suggest changing it to a toggle ability which auto-casts it any time an enemy is about to see you. When the duration expires you become visible again, and any enemies with sight of you become alerted. (If you didn't toggle it off in the meantime, it will be used again, but they will still be alerted.)

Teleport: I think Ash's teleport works fairly well. It does need some bug fixing though - Fatal Teleport frequently fails to trigger.

Bladestorm: Ash's clones should do the work and leave Ash able to actually continue fighting.  Being stuck in an animation is not really participating.  Additionally, since the ability is now more expensive to use and far less effective against groups, I feel each time one of Ash's clones teleport in they should cause a small AoE bleed proc. (Not necessarily a guaranteed one, so multiple marks would be more likely to cause it.) Also, enemies being attacked by Bladestorm should not be invulnerable to other damage sources.

[(NSW)BlaineKodos]

Many people have said this so far, but I'm tossing in another tick so it hopefully gets noticed: The Ash rework failed to address the core problem of Bladestorm's interactivity. The marking system is interesting and it makes you feel more involved in the power. Until you execute it, then you're back to watching your camera jump around while you can't do anything further other than wait for the animation to end. Bladestorm should send out your clones to strike the marked targets while you're free to move about and do things. You can lock his power usage until the Bladestorm finishes, but allowing Ash to reposition and fight while the attack is going would be a good way to alleviate the inability to do anything while Bladestorm is in motion. As it stands, it's an interesting idea that doesn't do much other that act as another step between you and the unskippable animation taking away your control.

Play around with this some more, please, and don't just leave this as gospel. The complaint here isn't that you changed Bladestorm, but that you didn't really address the issue of interactivity. There's more, but it's still an attack you have to sit back and watch happen.

[Oni-Habu]

Gonna say it again, but I hate hate hate the idea of using "clones" do kill while you run around. It effectively turns Bladestorm into a pet ability, Ash should be the one doing the killing, not waving his hand and having others do the work for him. An assassin frame, not a middle-management delegation frame.

That being said, if the "clones" weren't really "clones" but some sort rendition of Ash moving really fast (anime style) I could stomach it, but that's hardly what comes across atm.

At that point you might as well just make the ability an AOE with a radius around Ash ala Ember, and I believe the devs playtested that and didn't like it.

Maybe we need to look at something completely different? Something akin to the ol' Excalubur dash and Genji from Overwatch's dash. Say, a way to chain them together in rapid succession. Maybe a scaling bonus or an additive bonus the more mobs hit with each dash/slash? Add some sort of innate damage reduction while in this mode, or a stealth that refreshes every kill, and limit the ability either through energy or tickdown, I don't know, there are many other people who are far better at theorycrafting things than I am. But, it would solve many of the problems we have with Bladestorm.

No more animation locking.
No awkward marking.
skill-based usage (chaining together longs strings of kills, or even in-air kills would take some finesse, not a 1 button win)
No vomit cam.

Edited November 26, 2016 by CAM237

[AegisGrey]

 Okay, CC time! (Constructive Criticism)

• Shuriken - Didn’t change. Still don’t use it much.

• Teleport – Still use it a bunch with Fatal Teleport, not sure targeting objects changed my playstyle much. I’m sure it might be handy in Spy missions.

• Smoke Bomb – Excellent. Use it all the time now. One handed action while moving has made it into a great stealth skill. Would still like to see maybe a 1-2 second increase to base duration at max rank.

• Blade Storm – Oh boy. :/ Would like to open with I love the marking mechanic. A toggle ability that drains per enemy and incentivizes use of smoke bomb and stealth. Great! But what do you get for your effort and time? Blade Storm. Ugh. A cut scene that many complain causes motion sickness, and robs you of control until it plays out. This did not feel like a fix, more like a nerf. The new mark system is definitely more interactive (and great!) but the change didn’t address many players’ issues with the ability. And the issue it did address (sort of) of Ash players hogging kills has been reversed. Now you can start marking enemies, only to find them all killed by the time you are ready to go.

Proposed Solution time!

• Change the name on Bladestorm. Get rid of it. It isn’t working. When you think Ash rework, don’t think Bladestorm rework. But! You already have a replacement! Death Mark!

  • Use the new marking system as the new ultimate. Keep the mechanics the same (toggle, drain per enemy, discount for smoke bomb).

  • Have the mark synergize with Ash’s other abilities.

    • Shuriken seeks out marked targets first and does finisher damage instead of slash. Keep the guaranteed bleed proc.

    • Enemies killed while in smoke bomb add to its duration. This would help replace the lost invincibility frames from blade storm, and promote stealth.

    • Teleport will home in on marked targets (cycling through them every time you push 3), and finisher attacks animate faster. Combine this with fatal teleport or pushing E a lot and you have a Blade storm that can be interrupted whenever you want. Also less crazy camera action.

  • Melee attacks on marked enemies have 100% bleed chance. Or maybe just increased bleed chance, 100% might be a bit too powerful with some weapons.

  • Deactivating the ability wouldn’t remove the marks (so you don’t just keep marking targets while you are trying to kill them) but any active marks are lost when you toggle it back on.

• The way I see it this lets you play Ash three ways

  • Mark and Shuriken spam. Nice increase to damage and selective targeting. Eliminate priority targets at range.

  • Smoke bomb, Mark, Teleport spam. Basically selective use Bladestorm you can stop whenever.

  • Mark and melee spam. For when you just want to go totally nuts and see everything bleed.

Okay. Long post is long.

TL:DR – Toss Blade storm, keep Mark and have it make everything else more awesome.

[TaKa101]

i dont post here so much since forums isnt my thing and i dont think there is a better place to post this comment i saw on Mogamu's last video,i really liked this guy idea so as he requested im sharing it --->

"ShazbotVGS: i should post this on the forum but im at work and gotta be quick,feel free to post it there

so there we go,How to make Ash a viable frame for solo and team based Gameplay

Shuriken-

lvl 1: throw a shuriken at your enemy

lvl 2: throw 2 shurikens at your enemy that has 100% chance of slash proc

lvl 3: your shurikens now bounce to 5 more enemies if in range and in its end the shurikens stick on the ground for 10 seconds before returning to you but it instantly returns If recasted

Great for cleaning trash mobs and slash procs are very good against heavy armored enemies.

Smoke screen-

lvl 1: toss a smoke screen on the ground making you and allies inside the area invisible,duration of 10 seconds and if u leave the area before it ends get a 10% speed boost

lvl 2: area duration increased to 15 seconds and speed boost increased to 15%

lvl 3: area duration increased to 20 seconds and speed boost increased to 20%

since u have to be on the smoke area to be invisible giving it a long base duration is plausible to me,u can use it like that ivara skill but with the penalty of not being able to move around.

Teleport-

lvl 1: teleport to an Ally,object or enemy in range (like we have on live server now)

lvl 2: teleporting to a enemy you back stab him to steal health

lvl 3: If theres no valid target you teleport to your shurikens If in range dont worry,shurikens are valid targets too so you can teleport to them aiming at it making them a escape alternative

Blade Storm- lvl 1: activate to Mark a PT (priority Target) and active again to start the execution teleporting to him dealing a ton of damage

lvl 2: PT receive 15% more damage from all sources

lvl 3: after 3 seconds activated,BS can Mark more enemies dealing 5% less damage for each Target and it summons clones of yourself to do the job

with this BS you can give your allies a dmg boost againts enemies you attacked and since you summon clones If you Mark more enemies it dont get you stuck in a assassins Creed movie, making it Quick but with the penalty of doing less damage per target

pls tell me what you guys think and again if possible share it on the game forum and/or on Reddit,thanks for reading,now i really gotta go back to focus on work lol"

" i forgot to say the speed boost from my smoke screen has the same duration of the smoke itself so u can use it just for the boost :P "

[TheSteelRat]

The rework compared to old version

• costs more energy per mark/attack
• have to stop fighting to mark things
• only can mark enemies in LOS
• fewer attacks and it can deplete your energy pool

I really see no benifit to this.  you still do the blade storm animation, and you do the same amount of damage as before.  all you are doing is playing a "mark everyone" minigame.  and Fatal teleport is better then Bladestorm now.  Anyone who thinks this rework is good, hates the old "press 4 to win" Ash casue i really see no postive in this rework

[xXFshXx]

7 hours ago, SquidTheSid said:

So, Ash's rework just came out, and it's pretty underwhelming. Smoke Screen got a very nice QoL change and Teleport became marginally more useful. However, Bladestorm got completely neutered without having its largest issues fixed. Also, Shuriken got completely ignored, despite needing some love.  So overall, let me know what you think in the comments below. Too much? Too little? I tried to reward Ash players for being a stealthy assassin, rather than mashing the 4 key. 

Shuriken:

* Now scales with base damage and multishot mods. 

* Ash can now select one of 4 Shurikens from a “Quiver” style system (tap to cast, hold to select shurikens). He has his standard slash-based shuriken, in addition to a fire shuriken, a gas shuriken, and a viral shuriken. Each elemental shuriken deals its damage as 50% slash and 50% fire/gas/viral and has a 100% chance to proc its current element. 

*Shurikens that hit walls, cover, or other solid objects will remain lodged for 10 seconds.  - as suggested by /u/4G3NT_0R4NG

Reasoning: Currently, Shuriken doesn’t scale all that well and offers little utility. With the inheritance from base damage mods, Shuriken gets that needed damage scaling for Sorties (though it doesn’t scale with elemental/IPS mods, so it doesn’t get too powerful) and giving him the “Quiver” system makes the ability a lot more versatile (since it now has CC, an AoE DoT, and a health debuff suited for priority targets). 

Smoke Screen:

* Smoke Screen now creates a smoke cloud that lasts the duration. Any enemy that is in this cloud or walks into the cloud will be blinded for 1/2/3/4 seconds and will receive a -20% accuracy debuff if they remain in the cloud.  

* If Ash’s augment is equipped, any ally that is in or enters the smoke cloud will become invisible for the remainder for Smoke Screen’s duration. 

* Holding the ability key will allow ash to aim the smoke bomb at a specific location while releasing it will throw the bomb to that location. If Ash is not cloaked, he does not become invisible unless he enters the cloud. 

* Ash can recast Smoke Screen, but the invisibility does not stack/refresh. 

* Duration increased to 4/6/8/10 seconds

* Stagger has now been removed (due to the blinding effect).

* Cost increased to 50 energy. 

Reasoning: Smoke Screen is a weird ability, and to me, it feels like a lesser Invisibility or Prowl. Yes, it has a stagger, but compared to Loki’s Invisibility which has 50% more duration at base, it’s seriously lacking. Since Ash is an offensive/stealth-focused frame, I decided to make Smoke Screen much more of an offensive ability. Its CC isn’t too strong (it’s a relatively short-duration blind in a not so-large AoE). 

Teleport:

*Ash can teleport to his shurikens. - as suggested by /u/4G3NT_0R4NG

Reasoning: It provides some synergy in his kit and allows him to combo Shuriken and Teleport for a fairly solid mobility tool. 

Bladestorm:

* Cost now reduced to 7 energy per mark

* Bladestorm deals 300% damage to unalerted enemies or enemies susceptible to counterattack finishers. 

* Rising Storm now additionally increases the melee combo multiplier by 0.6 (from 0.5) per increment (affected by mods)
   
* Ash no longer directly teleports to enemies. Instead, he sends out a clone for each marked enemy. - as suggested by /u/4G3NT_0R4NG
 
* Smoke Screen no longer reduces energy cost. 

Reasoning: So Bladestorm just got a straight up nerf with this update and it was a pretty big one. Yeah, it’s more “interactive” but you’re still locked into an animation after you enter “execution” mode. The energy cost, at base, is pretty ridiculous, so it got reduced to a far more reasonable 5 energy per attack. Given the energy reduction, Smoke Screen no longer reduces energy cost of Bladestorm.

Rising Storm also got a buff, since it became rather redundant once Body Count became available. Increasing the combo multiplier increment incentivises players to use the augment even though they have other combo increasing mods. 

 The biggest change to Bladestorm is that an additional clone is spawned. Yes, he’s no longer invulnerable during casting, but Smoke Screen should be your defensive tool, not Bladestorm. Making him not enter “sandwich gameplay” mode (in that you enter a cutscene every time you want to kill an enemy) makes him much more dynamic. 

Now. to make up for the heavy nerfs to Bladestorm, it now benefits from a 300% stealth damage multiplier on melee weapons. So tactically using Bladestorm (e.g. through stealth or via blinded enemies) will now massively reward Ash by increasing Bladestorm’s damage significantly. Ideally, I'd like Bladestorm to be entirely reworked, but I think this is a good starting place. 
 

 

Your Changes are pretty interesting , but I think one change you mentioned is REALY needed : just send four or three clones to do the work of bladestorming instead of ash himself . Why was this not implemented , it would fix his 20min cinematic Mode !!!

[VRKestrel]

Hey DE,

interesting rework. Definitely worth diving into. I'm loving the small tweaks to Ash's first 3 abilities (especially the mobility changes to 'Smoke Screen' are amazing). Although the rework is mostly really well done, the fourth abilities still feels somehow 'off'. 

I can definitely see where you were going with his new 4th ability. It's most certainly more engaging and much less 'press 4 to win', which is awesome (and btw much less sleep inducing to play). Still, my main issue here is with the  'performance' or damage of the fourth ability. I'm sure you are not unaware of the fact that Blade Storm, although dealing damage much faster and in a more enjoyable way, it does so far less efficiently. There are , in my opinion, two reasons for this:

1. Blade Storm's energy economy is gently put restrictive. Compared to the old version where you could attack (and effectively kill) 18 enemies with 100 energy (without efficiency mods), he would now need 270 (!) energy to attack the same number of enemies. The reduced cost while invisible seems like a decent idea, but more often than not going invisible does not really help too much ( energy cost of casting invisibility + 18 enemies marked = 35+180=215 energy without mods)

2. Damage/Killing potential - While I do understand that Ash's Bladestorm deals more damage than it says on the ability screen due to its slash procs. I can certainly feel the damage fall off (especially versus infested). I think this puts Ash in a strange place role-wise, since Ash to me was always the ninja the killer. Seeing as how he has neither decent crowd control and very little team utility (which I think does not fit his theme anyway and is therefore not necessary), he should at least excel in killing potential (not even raw damage numbers in particular). 

So in conlcusion, Ash is now very well designed for the most part but there is still room for improvement here and there. To be honest though, I don't think anyone could have nailed a rework on the first try without ever having to fine tune. Kudos DE !!

 

P.S.: I'm loving the visual effects of Blade Storm. It looks so awesome now!

[PhoenIIIx]

As a long time ash player, the changes to smoke screen and teleport is much appreciated.

As for blade storm I thought I would hate it, but I said to myself I would give it a try before I posted any comments. I feel like you didn't really fix blade storm instead you slowed down the activation and increased the power consumption. You also lost the most important part for me; blade storm was great for situations where you got yourself into a bit of trouble and just when you're about to die you could cast blade storm to get out of trouble and get a bit of a breather plus recharge your shields.

I think blade storm should be more like Valkyrs hysteria where ash draws his signature blades and you can free roam and teleport to an enemy to do a finisher move.

I think this would be really fun and would give the players the interactivity and control they were asking for with this rework.

Edited November 26, 2016 by PhoenIIIx
grammer

[Racter]

23 pages here in a day, almost entirely negative. I haven't heard or seen a single person excited to use this/happy about the changes in game. Everything about this "rework" for Bladestorm was garbage. The cost to mark is too high, the time it takes to mark is too long, the effort required to mark multiple targets (especially more than once) is too high, the range is too low considering all the other limitations, the animations are too slow, the DPS is too low, the DPE is too low, it is literally a complete dumpster fire. There is absolutely no situation where the current iteration of Bladestorm is a viable option compared to other frames (or even just regular weapons), and to top things off it's not even fun to use.

For the simplest comparison (because this was mentioned on the dev stream where you previewed this nonsense), I'll use Mesa. My Peacemaker does ~40k per shot for 3.75e/s to anything I aim at within 50m, instantly. This is the same cost of a mark (while visible), for nearly 5x the damage, dealt far more quickly, with the same los restriction. It's finisher damage is irrelevant considering the levels we are expected to fight, even with zero Corrosive Projections in an augmented armor sortie 3 Peacemaker destroys Bladestorm in kills. Objectively speaking, why would I ever use Bladestorm? Even subjectively, why? To watch the same glitchy stab animations we've had for years?

Shuriken is still basically useless, Smoke Screen is still the worst invisibility, Teleport is still the worst finisher forcing ability, and now Bladestorm is completely worthless. The sole positive out of this patch is that you can cast Smoke Screen while moving/in mid air and that should have been done before he was even released.

[Draknus2009]

We need a change and this one would be pretty good.

[Ethedor]

i liked the old 4th ability because it attacked lot of targets at once like an AOE dmg ability. What i didnt like about it is when you played with a host with bad connection then the models of the enemies were buggy while the animation was playing, Ash model and the enemy models were not synced. My other dislike about it was that the teammates could kill the targets before Ash could do anything to them...

Now Ash lost its potential of attacking lot of enemies like an AOE attack and because of this i dont like him anymore :S maybe better spam shurikens at enemies then...

how about making the 4th ability work like when you cast it, Shadow Ninjas(TM) would spawn and wreak havoc while ash could still move and watch the Shadow Ninjas(TM) work on those enemies and maybe use the grineer manics models for their movement and stuff? but with katanas ofc erm...  i mean nikanas

and ash would become an assassin leader of some sort and his disciples would be the Shadow Ninjas(TM), handpicked by Ash from Tennos after rescuing them from enemy prisons (or some cool backstory idk :D)

they would work like allies, run around, latch on walls then on enemies, full ninja mode!

Edited November 26, 2016 by Ethedor
added lines

[DatDarkOne]

39 minutes ago, Racter said:

23 pages here in a day, almost entirely negative. I haven't heard or seen a single person excited to use this/happy about the changes in game. ...... The cost to mark is too high, the time it takes to mark is too long, the effort required to mark multiple targets (especially more than once) is too high, the range is too low considering all the other limitations, the animations are too slow, the DPS is too low, the DPE is too low, it is literally a complete dumpster fire.

It seems that you clearly missed my earlier comments.  Comments of mine that just happen to be the direct opposite experience than what you stated here.  Your statements that I quoted can only be considered correct if you directly compare them to the old press-4-to-win version that did all of that for you.  In actual practice cost wasn't high, time to mark wasn't long, and the effort to mark wasn't really an effort at all.  Range is over 65m(which might change) which was shown in the Primetime and that I was able to confirmed in my playtest.

I do understand some aren't happy with the change.  Some are even offering suggestions to make it better. 

Edited November 26, 2016 by DatDarkOne
added info

[ExplosiveNova22]

DE please, don't let this Rework slide. Update Bladestorm again by having Ash strike one or two targets then having the shadows attack like 3-4 more targets and update Shuriken so it works like BladeStorm, you having to target enemies and then pressing 1 and having the Shuriken bounce from enemy to enemy like a boomerang. What we have so far is still a non interactive Ash that takes longer to activate BladeStorm and most of the time not even having a BladeStorm hit because of other players killing enemies so quickly. I kindly ask you DE please take this and many of the other suggestions into consideration. Please and Thanks. 

[Mogar]

After messing around with the new Bladestorm I found that some of the other under-the-hood changes are pretty good. For instance the new marking system isn't as bad as you think. Simply activate and mouse over enemies. You DO NOT have to mark them for the 3 marks for it to count. The additional marks do however allow you to kill an enemy quicker. The reason for this being enemies who have more marks will be prioritized in getting attacked multiple times.

To explain: Your ult spawns 2 clones that attacks marked targets with you. As long as there are 2 or more targets alive and marked you and your clones will continue to jump on them until they are dead. What the mark does is increase the potential in you attacking that target multiple times. At least that's how it looked and that's how it seems to be explained. 

Another interesting thing about the ult is that the marked targets are "stocked". Once they are marked the mark wont disappear until killed or possibly being a certain distance. What this means is you can activate your ult at any time as long as they are A) within distance and B) have been marked. This lets you potentially enter your invuln state at almost anytime as long as you "stock" one of the enemies.

 

[Oni-Habu]

1 hour ago, xXFshXx said:

Your Changes are pretty interesting , but I think one change you mentioned is REALY needed : just send four or three clones to do the work of bladestorming instead of ash himself . Why was this not implemented , it would fix his 20min cinematic Mode !!!

Ash should be an assassin, not middle management. The idea of sending others to do the killing seems sort of counterproductive, since it's basically turning ash into a frame with pet mobs.

Might as well just turn bladestorm into an aoe, where anything within a radius around him takes damage from him being "super fast" and teleport in around. Thing is devs supposedly already  tried this and didn't like it.

Would even prefer a channeled version akin to Mesa where Ash channels in one place then disappears and kills things in the distance within LOS, with effects having him blinking from target to target (a lot like mesa and her blinking as she fires off shots).

[NinjasPlay4Fun]

Rework Suggestion

1) Shuriken: it should have a chance to Crit. That would be nice.

2) Smoke Screen: a blind instead of a stunt would be better.

3) Teleport: it should naturally do what it's band-aid of an Augment mod does... nuff said.

4) Kinjutsu/ Forbidden Path: Ash shrouds himself in darkness, intensifying and adding effects to his already deadly abilities. Ash gains a speed and damage mitigation buff for the duration.

• this would be a channeled ability, consuming energy over time, and would have a casting cost of 25.

• his first three abilities now cost 50 energy to cast while in this form.

• Forbidden Shuriken: instead of a single target it now damages all enemies in a cone with increased ranged and lethality.

• Forbidden Smoke Screen: casts an AoE of smoke that provides invisibility not just to yourself but also allies within, while blinding entering foes.

• Forbidden Teleport: Ash teleports to the target's location and back; leaving behind a quickly shrinking AoE where copies of himself attack all enemies within.

  Note: Basically, minor tweeks to his first three abilities and replace his 4th with magical space steroids; changing the way the rest of his kit works (less 'Press 4 to Win, and more of 4, then 3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, wash, rise, repeat... problem solved!)

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

30 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

It seems that you clearly missed my earlier comments.  Comments of mine that just happen to be the direct opposite experience than what you stated here.  Your statements that I quoted can only be considered correct if you directly compare them to the old press-4-to-win version that did all of that for you.  In actual practice cost wasn't high, time to mark wasn't long, and the effort to mark wasn't really an effort at all.  Range is over 65m which was shown in the Primetime and that I was able to confirmed in my playtest. 

I do understand some aren't happy with the change.  Some are even offering suggestions to make it better. 

All CC frames are press 4 to win. Instead of spam 4 ash is now spam 2 and u will be constantly looking at your invisible timer..Taking ash in to late game end game wont happen, because u will spend more time on your back than in the fight. This is a kill hordes up on hordes up on hordes mob game your frame is suppose to be OP, Warframe is not a tenchu figure it out stealth tactical espionage game. Which is what the "rework" accomplished. 

Edited November 27, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Oni-Habu]

The more I think about it the more I think that a bladestorm that functioned almost exactly like Mesa's Peacemaker would've been far more ideal.

[DatDarkOne]

2 minutes ago, (XB1)FCastle74 said:

This is a kill hordes and hordes game, not a tenchu figure it out stealth tactical espionage game.

Really?  I've been playing both ways.  Very well and successfully too.  :D