Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

3 minutes ago, Excalibur said:

Ash's rework was a step in the right direction. Bladestorm was 'press 4 to watch cinematic'. It needs two tweaks, TWO, and it'll be in the perfect spot.

1) Ash sends out his clones to Bladestorm for him, allowing him to continue the fight.

2) Shuriken marks targets for future Bladestorming.

 

There. Now he's less boring and his 1 synergizes better.

Perfect. Done!

[superaquafin]

26 minutes ago, Excalibur said:

Ash's rework was a step in the right direction. Bladestorm was 'press 4 to watch cinematic'. It needs two tweaks, TWO, and it'll be in the perfect spot.

1) Ash sends out his clones to Bladestorm for him, allowing him to continue the fight.

2) Shuriken marks targets for future Bladestorming.

 

There. Now he's less boring and his 1 synergizes better.

1.No, standing around while your clones get all the kills is extremely boring.

2. No, Marking stuff is stupid that mechanic should go and never be spoken of again. 

[Excalibur]

Just now, superaquafin said:

1.No, standing around while your clones get all the kills is extremely boring.

2. No, Marking stuff is stupid that mechanic should go and never be spoken of again. 

Okay, gimme something better, then.

[superaquafin]

1 minute ago, Excalibur said:

Okay, gimme something better, then.

I wrote a whole post but DE closed it, but basically lower the dps/increase the energy consumption. If they want to change the mechanics create another frame. 

[Excalibur]

Just now, superaquafin said:

I wrote a whole post but DE closed it, but basically lower the dps/increase the energy consumption. If they want to change the mechanics create another frame. 

So what, you WANT to keep the EDGY CINEMATICS when you press 4, completely taking you out of the game and the action, thus turning you into a discount pre-rework Mesa that can't even support his teammates because he's stuck hitting the same Ancient Healer aura'd Corrupted Heavy Gunner for 30 seconds?

[superaquafin]

Just now, Excalibur said:

So what, you WANT to keep the EDGY CINEMATICS when you press 4, completely taking you out of the game and the action, thus turning you into a discount pre-rework Mesa that can't even support his teammates because he's stuck hitting the same Ancient Healer aura'd Corrupted Heavy Gunner for 30 seconds?

You must not know how to build Ash if you can compare him to useless Mesa. My main ash build had 40% power strength and I use to solo Sorties with ease. 

[Excalibur]

6 minutes ago, superaquafin said:

You must not know how to build Ash if you can compare him to useless Mesa. My main ash build had 40% power strength and I use to solo Sorties with ease. 

I want you to take a long look at my name and maybe realize exactly who it is I main.

I can tell you it's not Ash.

But what I can tell you is that pressing 4 and then going to go make a cup of coffee shouldn't be the way to play Warframe.

inb4 "You can't contribute to this discussion if you don't know how to build Ash"

[superaquafin]

25 minutes ago, Excalibur said:

I want you to take a long look at my name and maybe realize exactly who it is I main.

I can tell you it's not Ash.

But what I can tell you is that pressing 4 and then going to go make a cup of coffee shouldn't be the way to play Warframe.

inb4 "You can't contribute to this discussion if you don't know how to build Ash"

You must not play a lot of endgame missions if Excalibur's your main. 

Pressing 4 and then going to make a cup of coffee with Ash's low defense would leave the whole party dead not to mention energy efficiency. 

 

 

 

[SumireViolets]

With the release of Ash's rework, Bladestorm has sort of became slightly more interactive, i say slightly because while marking the targets forces you to play instead of spam 4:

A) the best way to mark targets is to just spazz horizontally with your mouse

B) We still have to sit through the bladestorm animation

I believe i have a rework idea that could help Ash's bizarre spot (WARNING: This is merely my opinion)

Shuriken: Remove the damage on the ability, instead, make it like Ivara's quiver and Vauban's grenades where Ash will switch between 4 shurikens, each coated in a different element (not Viral, Corrosive, etc), when an enemy is struck by it, they will receive 50% more damage from that element (and its combined elemental damage) and will suffer an elemental proc (or a high chance of procing the element proc)

Smoke Bomb: build the augment into his Smoke bomb by default, and make his smoke bomb recastable while active, to counter this, jack up the energy cost by 25%  while already invisible and reduce the duration by 25-50% if already invisible, This would not only compete with Loki's invisibility (cheaper energy cost vs potential permanent invis w/ Zenurik), but allow you to give your downed allies some time to run away from danger if enemies are swarming them

Teleport: Keep the augment, make Teleport require no target, but keep a set range (or increased by power range)

Bladestorm: 2 ideas, I have;

A) bring back the AoE, and instead of Ash participating in the bladestorm, make Ash send out 3 clones that do the job for him, leaving him able to do other things, to counter this, the damage of bladestorm would have to be lowered, the AoE would have to be fairly small, and the clones would only be able to teleport to enemies in Line of sight (not through walls) of Ash

B) Ash creates a circle around him (increased by power range), any enemy that comes in contact with the circle is immediately bladestormed by Ash's clones, this ability would drain energy like an exalted weapon at a fairly reasonable rate

[Excalibur]

49 minutes ago, superaquafin said:

You must not play a lot of endgame missions if Excalibur's your main. 

Pressing 4 and then going to make a cup of coffee with Ash's low defense would leave the whole party dead not to mention energy efficiency. 

 

 

 

>implying Excalibur isn't endgame viable
>uses 40% strength Ash
Jesus christ how horrifying

EDIT: Also! Would like to point out I'm mentioning, in regards to 'Press 4 make coffee', Ash's OLD Bladestorm, which you seem to have avoided the question when I asked you; would you rather have that back than the current system.

Edited December 10, 2016 by Excalibur
Didn't want to doublepost.

[Xekrin]

2 minutes ago, Th3Num13erZ3R0 said:

Bladestorm: 2 ideas, I have;

Like the ideas for the other abilities, but on bladestorm both of your suggestions have been mentioned numerous times.  If they had wanted to go with that they had ample chances to do so.  Your second one in particular was actually their first iteration of the rework and ultimately rejected for being too much like Ember's World on Fire ability.

I agree though the marking system, while unique and interesting isn't really intuitive to the point where it requires any more thought than spinning around a few times in a crowd.  The animations are also a major issue and one they tried to address by only having Ash attack marked targets once, letting clones finish up but there is still the problem with marking a dozen enemies keeping Ash cutscened for quite a while.

While they can change anything at any time at their discretion I get the strong sense they are really keen on keeping some form of the animations intact.  I just don't see how they can keep them and keep people happy who currently dislike them.

One idea I had was a true cutscene where the entire screen is completely quartered based on number of enemies (perhaps max of 9) where it shows ash in boxes (like a grid on the screen) attacking each marked target all at once. Any additional marks are taken care of by the clones and instead of doing each of ash's marks one by one, it strikes them all in one stylistic animated cutscene that suggests he is everywhere at once.

In any case, good ideas, I'm sure they will get back to work on ash at some point after they do their data collection phase.

[(PSN)REAPER_021417]

Would much rather have the old system back new system has made ash as useless as mesa

[K4r4k4s4]

You are wrong, in plane of DPS Mesa easily outperform any old bladestorm Ash. Weapon mods scaling is very serious thing. But of course inconvenient to play compared to Ash (old Ash, new Ash is a joke...).

[Excalibur]

51 minutes ago, (PS4)downwardkoi said:

Would much rather have the old system back new system has made ash as useless as mesa

Why would you want such a boring ultimate, though?

Edited December 10, 2016 by Excalibur
Missed a questionmark.

[Awazx]

More than 1600 comments, 68 pages: neither news from [DE]. Can we consider this a disrespect to all the people who have invested their time in this feedback? I've seen bigger companies lose customers for similar things.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Just had the disdain of playing with the ash rework BS..WOW its terrible. I cant kill a level 100 heavy gunner with 3 marks and 210 power strength...what thaa?! His 3 is 10 times stronger and faster...WOW DE WOW 😑

Edited December 10, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 hour ago, Excalibur said:

Why would you want such a boring ultimate, though?

Because i can kill a lvl 100 heavy gunner with it.

Edited December 10, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[achromos]

8 hours ago, superaquafin said:

You must not know how to build Ash if you can compare him to useless Mesa. My main ash build had 40% power strength and I use to solo Sorties with ease. 

Oh lol.  You really need to build your mesa better because I could easily out DPS Old ash.

[(PSN)HELLHOUND_ROCKO]

i (former Loki mainer) always played (and eventually started to main) Ash Prime for the IMO perfect balance between Stealth, Speed & EHP tank - with the added bonus of perfect potential to instagib almost every mob regardless of it being level 1 or 1 000 000 000 000 000... with a Covert Lethallity Dagger. i always despised the now former Bladestorm as a ridiculous gimmick that - while giving me the opportunity to go invincible for longer than a teleport - only made teammates wanting me to spam it (which sucked IMO). 

 

so MY Ash P is now in a better spot than ever with his - on my system relatively recent - changes of his new passive, Fatal Teleport Augment (which causes Ash's way of Teleport Covert Lethallity Dagger instagibbing to bug out less and to cost less energy) - and the new buff to Cloak (" Smokescreen") handling (plus the Teleport buff). 

 

just as a reminder to all the people in here hurting our Ash mainer's feelings in saying stuff like calling him "trAsh" :)  or saying that he'd be useless now that his 4 is UTTER AND COMPLETE GARBAGE. 

[StonedMakak]

13 hours ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

1600+ replies and 67 pages of feedback, not even a peep from the dev stream. Just would like to know who the feedback is for?

https://mobile.twitter.com/sj_sinclair/status/653910748817719296

Because ☝This deffinelty DID NOT HAPPEN. ✌  

Call me a naive optimist, but I do think that them not mentioning the rework is a good sign. I think it means they are still open to the idea of removing the cutscene. Yes, Saryn received some immediate tweaks, but they were only numbers adjustments, which are easy enough. Reiterating my previous point, increasing the interactivity of BS demands more than changing numerical values here and there. Some creative thought needs to be put into it and that takes time.

I'm not saying they have some secret project in the works, but they have been definitely taken aback by the backlash, specifically about the cutscene. If it were otherwise, they wouldn't shy away from the topic and just announce that they are happy with how it turned out, making it clear that they consider the matter closed. The added targeting was a test, to see if it is enough to appease the "more interactive plox" crowd (me included), and keep the cutscene to satisfy the more conservative bunch. Clearly, it didn't work out so they have to rethink their strategy, and I think they know that. 

Oh and by the way, those of you who liked the cutscene also got shafted here. Yup, it's still here but DE completely ignored the opportunity to touch up on the existing animations, add a couple of new ones, maybe incorporate gore (decapitation, dismemberment), improve the editing so that there is less jump-cutting and the finishers are framed better etc., which even for me would be a commendable improvement, despite the fact that I detest the damn thing. They didn't do that which shows that they are not as committed to it as you may think.

So yeah, no matter which camp you are in, we all got screwed over by this rushjob.

[MontyOG]

On 07/12/2016 at 3:16 AM, nelu_Y3K said:

I got it. Just make Bladestorm scale with melee mods.

Or give Ash an exalted dagger. 

eh, i think that is kinda a cop out don't you? we have 3/4 frames already with exalted weapons, excalibur, valkyr, ivara, and arguably mesa. i don't really want more tbh

[MontyOG]

also, what the hell, twice now i make a post on the warframe concept thread and both times they have been removed and put in this mega thread. can someone explain why i can't just make another post, i want to have a discussion with people and not have to sift through several pages to find comments that may or may not be in response to a rework concept i wrote out.

[(PSN)REAPER_021417]

3 hours ago, (PS4)HELLHOUND_ROCKO said:

i (former Loki mainer) always played (and eventually started to main) Ash Prime for the IMO perfect balance between Stealth, Speed & EHP tank - with the added bonus of perfect potential to instagib almost every mob regardless of it being level 1 or 1 000 000 000 000 000... with a Covert Lethallity Dagger. i always despised the now former Bladestorm as a ridiculous gimmick that - while giving me the opportunity to go invincible for longer than a teleport - only made teammates wanting me to spam it (which sucked IMO). 

 

so MY Ash P is now in a better spot than ever with his - on my system relatively recent - changes of his new passive, Fatal Teleport Augment (which causes Ash's way of Teleport Covert Lethallity Dagger instagibbing to bug out less and to cost less energy) - and the new buff to Cloak (" Smokescreen") handling (plus the Teleport buff). 

 

just as a reminder to all the people in here hurting our Ash mainer's feelings in saying stuff like calling him "trAsh" :)  or saying that he'd be useless now that his 4 is UTTER AND COMPLETE GARBAGE. 

His 4 really is trash NOW

 

[SemperSupra]

Yeah, I still don't like the bladestorm rework. I liked it much better when Ash attacked everything within the range of the target. That is what I miss most. Why didn't DE just make another frame that what do what the new bladestorm does and leave things alone?

[(PSN)VanHorstmann90]

I'm sorry to say this but the rework is not a nerf... It is just a bad rework.

The way Ash's 4 has ben modified is way more disturbing than it has ever been.
Motion sickness is a thing, I can assure you that, and I'm sorry that I have to stop using Ash now.

Before the rework I just had to "look away" while he was performing his thing, now I have to move around the mouse (or the analog stick) like a crazy guy to mark enemies in an efficient way. Try doing it slowly and other warframes would already have cleaned the way by the time you're done marking.

I do understand that DE want to remove the nuke effect, but this was the wrong way.
Ash is no more efficient in his thing, killing, and it is a shame.

I would have loved to see Ash reworked to be a full stealth warframe for infiltration: a bladestorm that doesn't alert enemies, that spawns copies and let them do the dirty work after having marked the targets. Motion sickness solved, nuke effect solved.

However...
I don't see what the problem is for having nuke warframes, I mean, it's the reason why I prefer Warframe over Destiny and other similar games.
I love to feel powerful and capable of overwhelming enemies. It's also the only reason I'd stay in a survival for 80 minutes or more... Because I'm powerful and I can achieve higher levels.

Edited December 10, 2016 by (PS4)VanHorstmann90