Venka Prime status?

[Simmml]

So I made a build and everyone keeps hating on it :D I just want to ask someone else who has this wonderful weapon and has some forma on it to actually give it a whirl. I'm being told 'It's all RNG f*** you' so I want to see if that is really it. Thanks

Edited November 25, 2016 by Simmml

[FLSH_BNG]

You really don't need a fury mod if you have berserker on a melee weapon, and weeping wounds will be hard to take advantage of without body count also on the weapon.

With a base 25% crit change and base crit multiplier of 2.5, the Venka Prime is clearly better directed toward a crit build than a status build.

[Simmml]

Have you TRIED the buildl? Also Drifting contact replaced BodyCount. I asked for someone to TEST it. Not to tell me that 'in theory' it's S#&$

 

[Hixlysss]

4 minutes ago, FLSH_BNG said:

You really don't need a fury mod if you have berserker on a melee weapon, and weeping wounds will be hard to take advantage of without body count also on the weapon.

With a base 25% crit change and base crit multiplier of 2.5, the Venka Prime is clearly better directed toward a crit build than a status build.

Blood Rush is on the build. Drifting Contact is also on the build(Increases status and combo duration) Basically it's a crit + status build focused on using the combo counter.

[FLSH_BNG]

I never said it was $h!t, if you'd take the time to read through the few replies your OP has garnered you'd have realized that.

[Hixlysss]

2 minutes ago, FLSH_BNG said:

I never said it was $h!t, if you'd take the time to read through the few replies your OP has garnered you'd have realized that.

Again, the issue is you completely ignored that his build DOES have stuff to focus on both the issues you pointed out, namely the crit and bodycount. Drifting contact adds 10+ seconds as well as 40% status chance to the weapon. Further more he asked for someone to test the build before providing feedback, which you also ignored.

[WrathAscending]

Primed Reach on a weapon with an attack range as short as the Venka Prime seems counter-productive. It's much more useful on whips and polearms.

Personally I'd either build for crit or build for status with the Venka Prime. There are weapons where you can blend the two effectively but not so much in this case. If you want a Status build I'd swap Blood Rush and Primed Reach for Vicious Frost and Virulent Scourge to synergist the Viral effect with Slash bleed procs.

[Hixlysss]

12 minutes ago, WrathAscending said:

Primed Reach on a weapon with an attack range as short as the Venka Prime seems counter-productive. It's much more useful on whips and polearms.

Personally I'd either build for crit or build for status with the Venka Prime. There are weapons where you can blend the two effectively but not so much in this case. If you want a Status build I'd swap Blood Rush and Primed Reach for Vicious Frost and Virulent Scourge to synergist the Viral effect with Slash bleed procs.

Near as I can tell, it's a placebo effect. Apparently primed reach adds enough range on the venka primes to allow him to hit multiple enemies. Not sure if placebo effect or not, as no one else has been able to test the build and provide feedback.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

I have a similar alternative build except I dont have drifting contact because I am on console. It works well but will really shine if you use a frame that can open finishers, because this is clearly a build focused on slash procs

[Simmml]

Spreading as many slash procs in as much of an area as possible in as little time as possible. I didn't want to spark a min maxer debate. I just wanted to point at a weapon that is commonly built a certain way. And that by doing some weird stuff you can cause funny effects that work really well.

I have tried this with 20 lvl 145 cor bombards and they went down really easily. Now as stated above I was told it's probably just my RNG. Sooo... SOmeone else maybe wanna try running this in a melee mission and enjoying it

[Xzorn]

5 hours ago, Simmml said:

So I made a build and everyone keeps hating on it :D I just want to ask someone else who has this wonderful weapon and has some forma on it to actually give it a whirl. I'm being told 'It's all RNG f*** you' so I want to see if that is really it. Thanks

 

I use pure physical builds on occasion with Galantine and Prisma Dual Cleavers. It works well but it does cap out before an elemental blend. It works very well within lvl 70-120 armored enemies. Afterward you'll want Corrosive procs to let your front-end damage get in there and do some work as enemy HP scales.

Think of it this way. Slash procs do 240% of your base damage but you do minimal of other damage types, so that 240% IS your damage, which is roughly 1/3 of your potential damage output. As enemy HP scales (lvl 150+) it will start to become more rewarding to allow corrosive procs to negate damage resistance so you can ramp up to full damage potential.

In regards to your build. You don't need Buzzkill for a pure physical setup. Your Slash proc weight is 75% as is. You'd get much better results from True Steel or even Maiming Strike if you want to macro slides, Either way you absolutely need Organ Shatter. Bleeds are subject to crit multipliers so more crits and bigger crits are ideal.

This is my Galantine pure Physical build for comparison....

The base status chance on Venka Prime is only 15% so I'm not sure it's really worth making a pure physical build for them. I've not done the numbers on anything under base 20% status.

[WrathAscending]

13 hours ago, Hixlysss said:

Near as I can tell, it's a placebo effect. Apparently primed reach adds enough range on the venka primes to allow him to hit multiple enemies. Not sure if placebo effect or not, as no one else has been able to test the build and provide feedback.

The enemies would have to be virtually clipping into each other for it to have much of an effect. The reach is coming more from Vermillion Storm and the outflung arm movements it has rather than from Primed Reach itself.

The build is still going to clear house until at least level 40 but the lack of crit multipliers and the low status chance for bleeds means it's going to cap out lower than a crit/status hybrid or one that focuses either on crits or status chance.

What's probably bulking the numbers up is the Venka Prime's 75% damage bonus per combo multiplier level rather than the normal 50%.

Edited November 26, 2016 by WrathAscending

[Hixlysss]

5 hours ago, WrathAscending said:

The enemies would have to be virtually clipping into each other for it to have much of an effect. The reach is coming more from Vermillion Storm and the outflung arm movements it has rather than from Primed Reach itself.

The build is still going to clear house until at least level 40 but the lack of crit multipliers and the low status chance for bleeds means it's going to cap out lower than a crit/status hybrid or one that focuses either on crits or status chance.

What's probably bulking the numbers up is the Venka Prime's 75% damage bonus per combo multiplier level rather than the normal 50%.

He was apparently using it to one shot level 135 enemies, like bombards and ect. So I honestly have no idea.

[PCPMD]

On 25/11/2016 at 9:07 PM, Xzorn said:

 

I use pure physical builds on occasion with Galantine and Prisma Dual Cleavers. It works well but it does cap out before an elemental blend. It works very well within lvl 70-120 armored enemies. Afterward you'll want Corrosive procs to let your front-end damage get in there and do some work as enemy HP scales.

Think of it this way. Slash procs do 240% of your base damage but you do minimal of other damage types, so that 240% IS your damage, which is roughly 1/3 of your potential damage output. As enemy HP scales (lvl 150+) it will start to become more rewarding to allow corrosive procs to negate damage resistance so you can ramp up to full damage potential.

In regards to your build. You don't need Buzzkill for a pure physical setup. Your Slash proc weight is 75% as is. You'd get much better results from True Steel or even Maiming Strike if you want to macro slides, Either way you absolutely need Organ Shatter. Bleeds are subject to crit multipliers so more crits and bigger crits are ideal.

I mostly agree with this Xzorn. A few things, though from a purely theoretical standpoint, knowing a fair bit about the math (because i haven't been able to be online enough since the patch to actually get Venka Prime, despite wanting dem claws like crazy... however i've been theorycrafting similar builds)...

Slash procs increase with crit, AND completely ignore armor, so that will be a huge amount of damage when you get to high level enemies and DOESNT require initial hits purely for applying corrosive procs. Afaik Buzzkill increases slash weighting, but not the actual damage from the proc, so that would be less useful than you'd expect. While corrosive pulls weighting away from slash it would help with straight damage (at least before the point where it takes a few corrosive procs to deal any damage at all). Problem is, corrosive takes 2 mod slots and armor reduction does nothing for slash procs. Personally, I'd be inclined to drop primed reach, primed fury, and buzzkill, and add Organ Shatter and some combination of True Steel, 60/60(s), and Perpetual Sting. My reasoning for the last one is, +110% status duration increases the total damage from each slash proc by that same amount. Once you're at a point where corrosive procs are increasing damage enough to make it worth bringing corrosive, the TTK is low enough that +110% slash duration translates to actual damage. At that point, the number of corrosive procs required for your direct damage to beat your slash proc damage is so high that it doesn't make sense to pick corrosive over slash on a melee. Full auto status weapons are where it's worth going for corrosive stacking. In the case of Venka Prime, you want as many and as big slash procs as you can get, but math wise i'm not sure about where the ideal balance of crit mods vs status mods is.

tl:dr At high level, slash meta is king.

[Xzorn]

57 minutes ago, PCPMD said:

I mostly agree with this Xzorn. A few things, though from a purely theoretical standpoint, knowing a fair bit about the math (because i haven't been able to be online enough since the patch to actually get Venka Prime, despite wanting dem claws like crazy... however i've been theorycrafting similar builds)...

Slash procs increase with crit, AND completely ignore armor, so that will be a huge amount of damage when you get to high level enemies and DOESNT require initial hits purely for applying corrosive procs. Afaik Buzzkill increases slash weighting, but not the actual damage from the proc, so that would be less useful than you'd expect. While corrosive pulls weighting away from slash it would help with straight damage (at least before the point where it takes a few corrosive procs to deal any damage at all). Problem is, corrosive takes 2 mod slots and armor reduction does nothing for slash procs. Personally, I'd be inclined to drop primed reach, primed fury, and buzzkill, and add Organ Shatter and some combination of True Steel, 60/60(s), and Perpetual Sting. My reasoning for the last one is, +110% status duration increases the total damage from each slash proc by that same amount. Once you're at a point where corrosive procs are increasing damage enough to make it worth bringing corrosive, the TTK is low enough that +110% slash duration translates to actual damage. At that point, the number of corrosive procs required for your direct damage to beat your slash proc damage is so high that it doesn't make sense to pick corrosive over slash on a melee. Full auto status weapons are where it's worth going for corrosive stacking. In the case of Venka Prime, you want as many and as big slash procs as you can get, but math wise i'm not sure about where the ideal balance of crit mods vs status mods is.

tl:dr At high level, slash meta is king.

 

I believe Lasting Sting will do the trick for Alloy, however I'm not sure about Ferrite since Corrosive ignores a portion of mitigation given by Ferrite. Either way you'd have to drop Primed Reach and I believe the weapon would need to be 75% or more Slash weight. Primed Reach being a conditional damage multiplier is a hard thing to gauge. For a smaller weapon it would be fine but I never use small weapons so I've never had to compare.

There's also the issue that majority of damage buffs in the game do not increase bleed damage. Roar is one of the few that come to mind.

I've found a pure Physical build to be esp good for Saryn, Rhino and Ash solo but I don't think I would use it in a meta group since most likely there are buffs going on. The most popular being Banshee who does nothing for Bleeds..... outside the current double dip exploit of course.

I've been wanting to see what an all melee group with Ash, Banshee, Saryn, Excal can do. Prolly fall asleep before they have trouble doing damage.

[Simmml]

Maiming Strike makes no sense here. Neither does true steel. You will hit redcrits within the first few swings. Considering this is a melee build and not a QUICK melee build :D

Add some Naramon for crazyness.

Primed reach exchanged for Organ shatter is a valid thing I've tested. The dmg is really nice, however for running standart missions I find that reach gives you a huge edge when fighting corrupted for example. Maybe I am the only one but that bit of extra range makes it so much easier to deal with those dumb second row ancient healers in tight spaces >_>

This entire build only really works because of the 0.75 increase per step in the combo multiplier. You will hit a really high multi really quickly. 3,25 in just 45 hits!

This is also why weeping wounds works really nicely in combination with the insane attack speed and the rediculousness of Vermillion storm's multi hits.

I've had a lot more trouble going vs 145 bombards with an elemental build than with this build.

This is something made quite a while ago, but it works a lot better even with the Venka Prime for reasons stated above XD

[marshmellory]

if you're not too terribly attached to Primed Reach and Primed Fury, then you may want to put on some dual-stat elements to get you Viral damage (toxin and cold, if I remember correctly.) if you replace those two mods, you are not losing out on any slash damage, and although you will be proc-ing slash less often, the damage from the procs will effectively do twice as much damage due to Viral halfing the enemies health. many people say that you should use corrosive with slash, but it's a little misleading since slash procs bypass armor in the first place

[Dragazer]

Remove primed reach and primed fury for dual stat elementals for viral damage.

Primed reach works off percentages so it only really is worth it on weapons with good reach to begin with. 

Primed fury isn't honestly required, Vermilion storm and Berserker is plenty fast enough

Viral damage syngerizes with slash procs by halving enemy health temporarily letting slash do the work faster. Plus dual stats boost your status chance 

Replace buzz kill with organ shatter. Not having organ shatter is a major dps loss especially with Venka p higher than average crit multiplier.

Buzz kill doesn't really do much in terms of boosting slash proc, while crit does. 

Status and crit build is great for Venka prime, just the build you posted isn't fully optimized

 

Recommended frame would be Ash due to his passive increasing Slash proc dmg and duration and Blade storm benefits greatly from Venka Prime's increased combo multiplier

Edited December 1, 2016 by Dragazer

[Xzorn]

On 11/27/2016 at 8:12 AM, Simmml said:

Maiming Strike makes no sense here. Neither does true steel. You will hit redcrits within the first few swings. Considering this is a melee build and not a QUICK melee build :D

 

Because you can go further than one level of red crits.

Each level doubles your multiplier and having True Steel gives you an additional level of crit damage for Bleeds.

 

[(PSN)lhbuch]

I was testing Venka Prime with several different builds and got to a perfect point for me: I use it with Verm Storm and in quick melee mode. Just your average Crit, status build.

Test it it is really fun.

Spawn a lvl 140 HG in Sim  and casually approach him, spam your melee button, he falls off and... its over. No need for external buffs, slash procs amps via stealth etc...

[--DSP--]

It ain't bad, but the problem with this is that the lack of elemental combo which may be a disadvantage. Buzz Kill can also be replaced if you don't mind a slight reduce chance of Slash proc since physical damage mod doesn't affect the amount of slash proc damage.

(It's a fun build to watch enemies bleed to death)

Edited December 2, 2016 by --DSP--

[Brorelia]

Status builds are often greatly over looked in how powerful they actaully are.

 I don't think you need primed reach on any claws since the reward in range is not that big.

The primed fury is likely not required given you have other means of attack speed and you are going to be critting on basically every attack after you get the multiplayer going.

That is just my take on it but you might consider messing around with thing like relentless combination if you are going for a bloodrush + weeping wounds build that is mainly focused on slash damage. 

Venka has good builkt i ncrit chance and really good multiplayer so Organ Shatter would likely be ideal.

Just messing around with Relentless combination this morning I was able to get to 12,000 melee combo counter in under an hour. Once you get to enemies you can not instantly kill the combo counter will skyrocket often giving you over 100 in about 5 seconds if you are focusing down one enemy due to bleed procs. While 15% status is not that high it is high enough to make status procs happen often enough with weepign wounds once you get above a 4 times multiplier.

If you are looking for more attack speed you might consider eternal war Valkyr or using an arcane strike set.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Brorelia

[Simmml]

Spoiler

 

I replaced and tweaked a bit (I just got relentless combination) and find that now the lvl 145 corrupted bombards die too fast to actually test this in greater detail.

I played around without P. Fury or Reach and have to say I can live without fury for this, but Reach helps me spread the procs so much faster still.

[WrathAscending]

I'd still really get rid of Primed Reach on it. I've tried Primed Reach on the Venkas and the additional strike range you're getting is more down to Vermillion Storm than anything else.

[Simmml]

6 minutes ago, WrathAscending said:

I'd still really get rid of Primed Reach on it. I've tried Primed Reach on the Venkas and the additional strike range you're getting is more down to Vermillion Storm than anything else.

I gain enough range to cover the hallways on the grineer galleon/asteroid almost completely, meaning that when I run down the center of the hallway hitting E like a madman there is no escape, no matter how much they hug the wall. This is really personal preference I understand, no worries ^^

Edited December 4, 2016 by Simmml