- 103% damage Riven

[Ocaz]

Its reasons like this that make MMOs a dying breed though. Grinding for hours on end for one chance at maybe getting something decent. Riven mods really dont add anything to the game except more wasted time and extra frustration. Warframe lives on because it has a shred of creativity in it. But, with the consistent addition of more crap to grind like riven mods and kuva just to get slapped in the face for hard work is a huge turn off. Kuva should be a resource that drops at the Kuva fortress. Not sure why it isnt. its locked behind a minigame that wastes time and provides very little. The stats you get on a kuva mod should always be something good perhaps tiers of how good it is. No one wants negative damage, that being one of the options shows how little its addition actually effects the game. And the introduction of riven affinity is also destructive. All rivens should equally be able to be decent for whatever rifle you have it on. Instead i cycle a quanta mod 13 times and continue to get garbage like this riven mod and on the first try i get a boltor mod with +dmg +electric + flight speed, while quanta mod gets mostly negative or worthless stats.

[Jin_Kazama]

" We released riven mods to give older weapons A fighting Chance "

*-103% damage *

[P0Pz]

8 hours ago, Ocaz said:

Its reasons like this that make MMOs a dying breed though. Grinding for hours on end for one chance at maybe getting something decent. Riven mods really dont add anything to the game except more wasted time and extra frustration. Warframe lives on because it has a shred of creativity in it...

The Riven MOD "idea"  is great !!

The way to increase/change the worth/stats for this kinda "End game MODs" is not the best.

How i would do it:

Lets say,

Riven should have no negativs but that would mean it would not get much high stats in the positive stats.

----

Imagine there are a total of like 10 different Riven mods for all kinds of weapon...

Since all have 10 mods we can create one for each a knot/boss/mob witch got a 100% drop of 3 Riven boxes (melee/rifle/secondary) showing in the end of mission...

Lets say we get some Riven for Melee/Rifle/Secondarys from DE (each 10 Rivens). We still need just 10 farming points for them. 

How?

After you end 1, from the 10 Riven "missions?!", you get 3 boxes shown up.

- Melee Riven box

- Rifle Riven box

- Secondarys Riven box

Since every mission "GRANTS" 1 fix Riven in each box, you can choose which excact riven you want as reward.

---

Now...

Imagine riven mods always have 3 positive stats:

+30%/+20%/+10% stats 

Imagine you get a Riven mod:

+30% reload speed / +20% crit chance / +10% damage

Sounds bad and for a end game mod... not worth to talk about at this very first view, right?

Now my idea...lets stack the same mod with another same Riven Mod. Up to 10 times.

You have acquired 2 or more of the same Riven Mods and yet you can only successfully equip one of these Mods at a time. 

You can create a +1 Riven Mod by enhancing one +0 Riven Mod with another +0 Riven Mod. After a successful enhance attempt, you will have just one Riven Mod and it will be described as a +1 Riven Mod.

If you stack 2 same riven mods you get a +1 lvl 0 Riven mod, with new stats (taking the excample mod stats above):

+60% Reloadspeed / +40% crit chance/ +20% damage.

Okay okay we see the improvment!.. But where is the pay off?

Every try to stack 2 same riven mods should have a fail rate of 50%. The first stacking like above should be only 25% failrate. If failing, one of the riven mod will break and is gone.

The only way to increase the successrate to stack them should be to lvl both riven mods up. Each Mod lvl up, should give +0,5% or +1% more successrate. So each lvl 10 riven mod would gain +5% or +10% successrate..adding both = +10%  or +20%. This would mean a total of 50%+10%=60% or 50%+20%=70% successrate.

Now how do we create a +2 lvl 0 Riven Mod?

You would need 2 x +1 Riven Mods to get a +2 Riven Mod.

+1 Riven Mod = +0 Riven Mod & +0 Riven Mod (25% failrate)

+2 Riven Mod = +1 Riven Mod & +1 Riven Mod (50% failrate)

+3 Riven Mod = +2 Riven Mod & +2 Riven Mod

+4 Riven Mod = +3 Riven Mod & +3 Riven Mod

+5 Riven Mod = +4 Riven Mod & +4 Riven Mod

...

A +5 Riven Mod with the excample Riven Mod stats above would be:

+30% reload speed / +20% crit chance / +10% damage ~~> x 5 :

150% reloadspeed / 100% crit chance/ 50% damage. 

A +10 Riven Mod would have:

300% Reloadspeed / 200% crit chance / 100% damage.

(All nummbers just excamples!)

You see know, by all the risc of breaking 1 out of 2 Mods,... you still can go on focus it without losing your hole riven stats. And if you success you get payed out with double stats then before.

Trade off enough, lvling up to increase the success to a fix %, cost credits too... but they ARE WORTH ALL THE EFFORT.

Grinding for it would make sense. Who do not want to double his mod stats ??!! ?

Stacking MODs...this could be the best way (IMO) ?

Edited December 7, 2016 by P0Pz

[Robolaser]

A negative stat already seems to allow higher positive stats. And in practice, can sometimes be considered neutral, or even benefical.

Reduced zoom is sought after by many sniper users. An ignis user won't care, nor will he care about increased recoil. Highly reduced flight speed turns energy weapons into minelayers, which could be a positive or negative for different players.

About damage: i'm not sure negative damage can still heal other players, i read it was patched. That would be really unfortunate. Anyway, in some status builds where damage is a bonus, i'd rather have more multishot, status chance, rof, duration, even flight speed or capacity. So in that case, it might indeed be a tradeoff. Also, reduced IPS may be useful if you want elements to weight more, and have more chance to proc.

Negative stats can be an incentive to experiment. I don't want them to go or be restricted, because we might find interesting things (DE allowing us to keep them afterward is another story). That said, they can be extremely frustrating too. This is why we need a reasonable REROLL COST CAP, more than anything else regarding rivens imo.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Robolaser

[HckNSlash]

I wish there was a way to show how much Kuva someone has farmed.

On a side not, at least you got a fkn riven mod.

I have looted 2 since this patch, one from the quest and the second the first sortie.

[FlinttheImmortal]

2 hours ago, Robolaser said:

A negative stat already seems to allow higher positive stats. And in practice, can sometimes be considered neutral, or even benefical.

Not quite so in all cases.  Considering specifically the dreaded -x% damage Riven (the stat referenced in the title of the post), the damage penalty can only mitigated, never eliminated. Riven stats are additive.  A -100% Damage Riven + a 165% Serration nets you only 65% extra. Given that all other damage types are derived from base damage (elemental, combination, status procs, etc) one is better off without the negative damage Riven than with.

Furthermore, considering that the weapons Riven mods are meant to incentivize players to use are woefully underpowered in some cases (I would argue most, actually), I fail to see how a negative damage stat could be considered to be beneficial in any way, let alone worth "experimenting" with. 

In case of a negative applied to a specific damage type, then you are correct that it could be beneficial if a player is looking to sway a weapon's damage to a certain type.  But negative overall base damage is never a good thing.

But hey, you can just reroll right?  Maybe you won't get that stat next time...maybe you will...who knows...

Maybe the Shadow knows. 

[Thrymm]

On 12/3/2016 at 5:41 PM, DogManDan said:

everything has a trade off, if you dont like the stats re-roll it but stop complaining about there being a positive/negative trade off! Sick and tired of everyone complaining about this over and over. 

 

As for now they are focusing on primary weapons until they figure out what ultimately they want to do then we will see melee and secondary. It has been said.

Then stop reading it, because the complaining is not going to stop without a resolution.

We've all been treated to the reasons these mods exist.  Breathe life into new weapons.  End game something to do, etc.

Nobody is stupid enough to think that "healing enemies instead of damaging them when you shoot them is a reasonable tradeoff for larger magazine and reload speed!"....or a reasonable trade off for anything at all, in reality, and nobody really goes through a sortie hoping that they can take their never used weapon(because it either sucks anyway or they don't like it) out and do negative damage.

It's not about whether negative modifiers even exist or not, it seems fair to believe that an honest balancing modifier makes sense.  The current Paracyst riven I'm looking at sits at -99.8% minus to crit chance, but I get 252% damage in return for that.  Ok, I can work with that, I'll be making a status Paracyst out of the thing.  If something like that happened on the Soma...ok, that's gonna have to be a reroll because it's not going to work.  The negative crit damage modifier my Opticor mod came with meant when I crit I healed enemies, it made the mod worthless, rather than simply an Opticor that doesn't crit.  It made it an Opticor that I shouldn't shoot at enemies that I actually want to kill.  That can't be that hard to comprehend.

It also can't be that hard to comprehend that, given the purpose behind Riven mods, people are going to be loathe to grind kuva, to RNG reroll a chance at making a weapon they aren't even sure they like anyway into something worthwhile when they've been handed a system to do it in that is more than capable of making a weapon of already dubious worth even more worthless, or even completely useless.  Can we fix it?  Sure!  Just wander on out there and grind our content again for another chance, progressively more expensive, to have a possibility to make your worthless weapon possibly, maybe not quite worthless and, if you somehow expend your luck that you could have bought a winning lottery ticket with, it might even be great!

Of course, to even get the opportunity to do this, you'll need a whole arsenal of weapons already(at the very least a shotgun, pistol, bow, sniper, and melee weapon of sortie caliber, as well as a full elemental style setup and full physical style setup, depending upon the daily gimmicks) much better than what you're trying to improve in order to to beat the sorties to get the chance at the mod you're doing this with, with very little hope that it'll actually surpass it and give you an upgrade. 

Life isn't breathed into anything when we're for placed in content that these weapons can't really do(so we're already using the overused stuff even more just to get them) in order to get mods to make these weapons continue to not do be able to do the content that we know we'll be doing, and the option to have another shot with that weapon is to do other content that the weapon in question isn't really suited for either?

Yeah....complaining isn't likely to stop until that stuff does.

 

[VentiGlondi]

On 4.12.2016 at 0:41 AM, DogManDan said:

everything has a trade off, if you dont like the stats re-roll it but stop complaining about there being a positive/negative trade off! Sick and tired of everyone complaining about this over and over. 

 

As for now they are focusing on primary weapons until they figure out what ultimately they want to do then we will see melee and secondary. It has been said.

My weapon got more ammo, and the trade off is that it literally can't kill anything!

I think that's more of a scam than a trade off.

[ashrah]

any negative stat is bad...like i see ppl selling dread rivens crit+crit dmg-flight speed or-maximum ammo..and charge for it 1000+plat....ppl  see first 2 stat as good then rush to buy it but that negative stats.. make wepon almost no use...

[AcceptYourDeath]

On 4.12.2016 at 0:41 AM, DogManDan said:

everything has a trade off, if you dont like the stats re-roll it but stop complaining about there being a positive/negative trade off! Sick and tired of everyone complaining about this over and over. 

This insane damage reduction has no way to hold as a "counterbalance" or "trade off" It just totaly screws all 8 mods including the riven itself with every effect they have. Everything you might use as a built variety (one goal with riven) suffers. Multishoot, Status, Crit, damagetypes. They might as well just replace this -100%dmg stuff with a mod "Try again" written on it.

Edited December 8, 2016 by AcceptYourDeath