Umbra before sentient arm cannon, DE's general mismanagement of time/resources

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

so, correct me if im wrong, but we've been waiting for umbra over a year. Rebecca in a devstream stated that umbra would be a part 3 to the second dream and war within. im not asking a question when i say this, you need to be working on plans to release umbra in the global build next. period. we've waited patiently and your're updates are taking longer and longer. update 19 took you 6 months to release (not to work on, release) and still isnt even here for all of us. devstream 83 mentioned that the next cinematic quest will involve the sentient super weapons, and this concerns me. no ones been hounding the forums for a year looking for news on a stupid oversized arm cannon. if umbras not being brought in next, its gonna be another year. Quit making us wait longer on the things we want and already wait patiently for just so every subsystem steve thinks up can be implemented first. 

fellow tenno, if you dont want to wait another year for umbra, i started the bandwagon, hop on n upvote this.

 

It seems like eveything DE does now is mismanage time and assets, and half-a$$ed implementation:

no one plays lunaro, quit giving us maps for it when that development time can be better spent

not enough people play conclave to justifiably have QoL improvements and tweaks to it MORE regularly than the regular game

Conclave doesnt need its own vast set of skins when you obviously dont even have time to make more immortal skins

you give us a preview event thats basically old stuff slapped together in a way thats not even fresh, its rathuum with false profit style risk reward credits and has nothing new for us to review

taking six months to release the multiple parts of an update that was supposed to release

taking multiple steps the fix problems that could be done right off the bat (vacuum, endless fissures) if they had either listened to the community or used common sense

stupidly disappointing oversights that most likely wont get fixed (a prime ship that is just a skin so skins cant be equipped on it n at least half the people that bought it are let down)

 

meanwhile these things are still overlooked:

the dojo energy color still doesnt color half the energy in the dojo, something ive been waiting for and commenting about for a year and its a pretty simple thing to fix

a thousand other dojo/relay requests

being able to color armor and syandanas seperately which pops up constantly, got asked about on stream months ago, and got answered "yeah we can do that, it wouldnt be too hard"

only two frames this year, and the next two are A) a rip off of a community concept that isnt giving any credit to the community concept B) really close to an already existing frame in concept

immortal skins, as stated above, have gotten nothing since trinity

countless other things that im either forgetting or leaving out because this post is long enough already

 

with all that said, im still here, and i still play, i still purchase content to support DE. however, we have no reason to believe "you got this" and are doing things to a better plan than we can conceive. so as an active member of the community, a player that has payed for alot of content, a player that brings people to your game, and a member of the design council, i say we need plans for umbra before we get more disappointment or more content we dont care about and will barely use. DE, give the community what its due, starting with making umbra a priority which has obviously not been the case and wont be yet again if the next development cycle is focused around sentient superweapons which dont even currently have a jumping off point headed their direction and will take the development time of TWW just to get the things to make sense.

then devote team members to community requested content, we dont need more syndicate lunaro maps and conclave skins, meanwhile theres threads upon megethreads requesting dojo stuff. if you talk to gamers, read these forums and look at your own play statistics, its just common sense.

[(PSN)Kamranos]

And I'm just sitting here wondering when the Dojo will get some kind of update...

[bluepheonix13]

Salt much

 

Edit: Also, inb4 lock, your wall of text is basically 3/4 rant and does not belong in the forums.

Edited December 4, 2016 by bluepheonix13

[Gelkor]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

And I'm just sitting here wondering when the Dojo will get some kind of update...

I think Dojo was one of the next QoL things they were looking at. Hope it comes with some kind of Relay update, either combining them or something, Relays seem to have taken a lot of the utility that Dojo's were originally going to have. 

[Xekrin]

34 minutes ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

Quit making us wait longer on the things we want and already wait patiently for just so every subsystem steve thinks up can be implemented first. 

What do you want exactly?  We don't even know what Umbra "is" or even will be, there is literally zero information on it.  None.  Other than a new design for Excal released to chinaframe we have seen no features that would indicate to me that it is even worth waiting for.

Believe it or not, they have a plan and a process.  There is a linear progression to the things they release.  If the arm cannon is required to understand the induction of Umbra, then the arm cannon comes next.  Chill out.

Also I didn't read more than the first paragraph of your Wall'o'text, so I'm just talking out of my....

Edited December 4, 2016 by Xekrin

[Arcadiace]

29 minutes ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

if you talk to gamers, read these forums and look at your own play statistics, its just common sense.

I was going to bullet point each rebuttal I had, but this made it easier to reply:

They do talk to us, we each just have differing opinions. Not everyone is on the forums at all times, so no fix can be done "right off the bat" because not every voice is heard right away.

They do look at statistics, and they share it with us all the time. (I would implore you to actually review them)

Common sense tells me we (and others) have differing opinions.

I almost want to state this also is more of a rant post than actual "feedback".

[Genitive]

We've been told that Umbra will be featured in a cinematic quest after The War Within, not as a part of it or The Second Dream. There has been no other confirmation besides 'eventually'. So there is no point in waiting for it unless there is's been oficially announced. Being mad about Umbra not being released yet is just silly, there is nothing to wait for yet.

With your little rant you only proved that you have little idea about game development and on top of that are pretty rude. Some of the stuff is being released later because the devs do listen to the community and change things based on the community's feedback.

And please don't try speaking for all of us; you not liking something doesn't mean nobody likes it.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Genitive

[Dat_Krawg]

They have not given any time frame on the Umbra frames as its a brand new frame type parallel to primes.

i dont know what stream you are talking about where Rebecca said it would be part 3 but if they had it would put there necks on the chopping block and also ruin a huge story element months in advance.

De dose talk to their player base as anyone who has payed attention to the Riven and kuva changes and discussion that have been taking place or as the ash rework should show.

 

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

as much as u may feel like im just being salty or angry, im not. im at most disappointed. i dont claim to speak for everyone.

rant or not, it is feedback. i didnt threaten anyone, i didnt attempt to offend anyone, i didnt resort to hate speech, my feedback isnt out of line. half of what i listed, DE has admitted to and admitted that it lost focus this year and made mistakes. nothing improves by ignoring these things.

40 minutes ago, Arcadiace said:

They do look at statistics, and they share it with us all the time. (I would implore you to actually review them)

to those of you telling me to review the statistics, i do. a constant rate of less than 5% of players playing conclave n lunaro combined is normal and it gets attention over things the community has threads upon threads about like the dojo. it has people devoted to working on it constantly. what im asking for is to have the same dedication to fixing/finishing things that get left behind in the development cycle or are getting asked for constantly by players.

i know that they talk to the community and share things with us, hence how i can know things they've said. i watch the devstreams, i check out steves vine, i read forums. it might take me a bit of looking back through streams but rebecca DID say it was meant to be a third part. im even aware that plans can be changed, i get it.

39 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

What do you want exactly?  We don't even know what Umbra "is" or even will be, there is literally zero information on it.  None.

what i want is them to work towards it, rather than letting it go another year, and in another year, still having no news. alot of my list was to show that they often take a year to get to something, or back around to it. hence if we expect to see it in the next year, it has to become a priority soon.

if any of you think i was rude than i apologize for upsetting you, it was not intentional. 

32 minutes ago, Arcadiace said:

They do talk to us, we each just have differing opinions. Not everyone is on the forums at all times, so no fix can be done "right off the bat" because not every voice is heard right away.

37 minutes ago, Genitive said:

Some of the stuff is being released later because the devs do listen to the community and change things based on the community's feedback.

go look at old forums about vacuum, you will see that a vast majority of players that have talked about it, wanted it universal, we now have it somewhat universal, why did we need the steps in between of making it 3 weaker mods, or reducing its range. they had a megathread going and the entire conversation leading up to that point was ignored until they implemented a bad version, the community flipped, and DE got death threats. "fixing it off the bat" in this case would have simply been listening to the majority of community opinion BEFORE deah threats. see what im saying?

 

 

[LuckyCharm]

Personally I could care less about umbra right now. I don't use excalibur anyway. What I really want is that bard frame >.< but that's seemed to have gotten pushed back too. I don't want dojo upgrades. I'm only in the dojo for a few seconds a day to make trades. I don't need all these dark sector changes. Because clan wars don't excite me at all. Definitely nor more conclave, nor lunaro. What I want is bard. You don't even needa give it a quest. Just throw bard in as a sortie reward or something and I'll happily ignore it and just buy it with plat. 

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

2 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

Personally I could care less about umbra right now. I don't use excalibur anyway. What I really want is that bard frame >.< but that's seemed to have gotten pushed back too. I don't want dojo upgrades. I'm only in the dojo for a few seconds a day to make trades. I don't need all these dark sector changes. Because clan wars don't excite me at all. Definitely nor more conclave, nor lunaro. What I want is bard. You don't even needa give it a quest. Just throw bard in as a sortie reward or something and I'll happily ignore it and just buy it with plat. 

just imagine if it got revealed a year ago and still wasnt here. i myself could care less about umbra, i barely play excal anyways. why this whole thing gets under my skin is that i see how much of the community wants it and has been waiting. i get asked if theres any news constantly by my clan and alliance members. how many times have i got asked if theres news on the arm cannons? none. ever. not once. yet for some reason that pushed umbra out of being part 3 to the whole chain of events going on, an arm cannon is already modelled and animated. am i against the concept of the arm cannons? no. it doesnt really make sense to me right now but im not against it. i just dont think it should be next because they are on a little kick of adding as many subsystems as they can

[Icarian_Justicar]

I kind of agree with the OP in away, but before making new things they have to really work on the old like re-imaging pvp and other things outside of PVE grind, its nice they'e making all these new biggg quests but right now they need to do things like the OP has said lots of things just get left.. and left.. and left this game needs a lot of QoL updates, not just new content.. new content.. new content.

[Gelkor]

4 minutes ago, Icarican_Justicar said:

I kind of agree with the OP in away, but before making new things they have to really work on the old like re-imaging pvp and other things outside of PVE grind, its nice they'e making all these new biggg quests but right now they need to do things like the OP has said lots of things just get left.. and left.. and left this game needs a lot of QoL updates, not just new content.. new content.. new content.

I'm not sure what you mean by this statement. Literally every update since Conclave 2.0 came out a year and a half ago comes with conclave updates, tweaks, and refinements. Like, every single update has a whole section on Conclave. 

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

4 minutes ago, Icarican_Justicar said:

I kind of agree with the OP in away, but before making new things they have to really work on the old like re-imaging pvp and other things outside of PVE grind, its nice they'e making all these new biggg quests but right now they need to do things like the OP has said lots of things just get left.. and left.. and left this game needs a lot of QoL updates, not just new content.. new content.. new content.

unfortunately, this is their reimagining of pvp. this is what we got as they removed one of the most played parts of the game, a part that they've said they are working on redoing and bringing back, for over a year. the pvp gets constant balancing while the other things slip through the cracks. its a shame.

i personally think the dedication of a team to pvp is a large part of why the rest of the game is suffering

[LuckyCharm]

4 minutes ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

just imagine if it got revealed a year ago and still wasnt here. i myself could care less about umbra, i barely play excal anyways. why this whole thing gets under my skin is that i see how much of the community wants it and has been waiting. i get asked if theres any news constantly by my clan and alliance members. how many times have i got asked if theres news on the arm cannons? none. ever. not once. yet for some reason that pushed umbra out of being part 3 to the whole chain of events going on, an arm cannon is already modelled and animated. am i against the concept of the arm cannons? no. it doesnt really make sense to me right now but im not against it. i just dont think it should be next because they are on a little kick of adding as many subsystems as they can

True, and to be honest it should have been brought in with TWW or something. They had plenty of opportunity there to add it in as part of the operator powers. Guess they're waiting for the next round of focus changes. Though who know how long those are going to take. Everyone was expecting them with TWW and it didn't happen. 

If there's one thing I want more than the bard frame.. its for stances to get a second look at. So far dual swords have got so many weapons in the category, but there's been no new stances since release for them. And other categories besides. But noooo Nikanas and claws seem to be all the rage since they had one or two weapons a piece at the time the third stance for them came out. Time well spent making those i'm sure. 

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

5 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

True, and to be honest it should have been brought in with TWW or something. They had plenty of opportunity there to add it in as part of the operator powers. Guess they're waiting for the next round of focus changes. Though who know how long those are going to take. Everyone was expecting them with TWW and it didn't happen. 

If there's one thing I want more than the bard frame.. its for stances to get a second look at. So far dual swords have got so many weapons in the category, but there's been no new stances since release for them. And other categories besides. But noooo Nikanas and claws seem to be all the rage since they had one or two weapons a piece at the time the third stance for them came out. Time well spent making those i'm sure. 

lol the only thing i can really say right now, didnt we get shown another tonfa/kronen stance like forever ago that still isnt released? smh DE smh... my list of "salt" could have easily been longer

seems like some of these things are a little more overdue than pvp content, oh yeah thats right... pvp also has a whole section of its own stances... surprise surprise. hence why i say there needs to be a dedicated team to catch what falls through the cracks, not for pvp

Edited December 4, 2016 by (XB1)ashes of suvius

[Icarian_Justicar]

8 minutes ago, Gelkor said:

I'm not sure what you mean by this statement. Literally every update since Conclave 2.0 came out a year and a half ago comes with conclave updates, tweaks, and refinements. Like, every single update has a whole section on Conclave. 

reimaging and updates are two different things, I haven't played conclave but if its anything like dueling in dojo's they reaaaaally need to change it not just ' update ' or ' tweak ' it. 

[(PSN)WetPollito]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Kamranos said:

And I'm just sitting here wondering when the Dojo will get some kind of update...

you are not the only one.

[Gelkor]

Just now, Icarican_Justicar said:

reimaging and updates are two different things, I haven't played conclave but if its anything like dueling in dojo's they reaaaaally need to change it not just ' update ' or ' tweak ' it. 

It's nothing like dueling in dojo's. At all. Dojo's still use the old PvP system before they re-imagined it a year and a half ago into a completely separate standardized game mode with all weapons and warframes and variants having trade-offs for things like speed, power, reload, efficiency, etc. PvE mods don't exist, PvP mods are rewarded from playing Conclave matches or killing Sentients in PvE. Very few PvP mods are buffs and are instead trade-offs, like mods that make you move faster decrease your durability, and vice a versa.

When it was first rebuilt they only had limited Warframes and weapons due to needing to individually balance every piece of gear in the game for PvP, every update since then re-balanced more weapons and Warframes for PvP, a while ago all weapons and Warframes were finally added and everything new going forward has separate PvP stats. Every update brings more refinements to this balancing system. 

[NeonNemesis]

He makes a fair point on the pvp, I loathe the thing, but still I try to at least do daily quests (mainly the ones of complete x missions) to see if one day I'll be able to get 1 or 2 of those skins and that syandana, the thing is, everytime I try to play, that thing is completly empty. Plus, if you're not that good at pvp and you're starting that thing punishes you as hard as possible since pvp veterans will walk around with modded weapons that will destroy you easilly while your unmodded weapon will need a ton of hits to bring him down. 

Yet all patches get pvp changes for something that is barely played

Edited December 5, 2016 by NeonNemesis

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

1 minute ago, Icarican_Justicar said:

reimaging and updates are two different things, I haven't played conclave but if its anything like dueling in dojo's they reaaaaally need to change it not just ' update ' or ' tweak ' it. 

its definitely not duels. im not a fan of pvp, and even for pvp i find conclave annoying and pointless, so i cant honestly tell you to go try it, but it is definitely not just duels. theres a capture the flag, teams, 1v1, free for all, lunaro. its on its own tilesets, has its own reward pool, has its own mods, armor, skins, its own balancing (stats on everything are tuned differently)... all of this has come in the last year while we werent getting frames, stances, dojo content, umbra, etc

now you can see why i say its gotten too much development time n resources compared to the rest of the game

[Icarian_Justicar]

1 minute ago, Gelkor said:

It's nothing like dueling in dojo's. At all. Dojo's still use the old PvP system before they re-imagined it a year and a half ago into a completely separate standardized game mode with all weapons and warframes and variants having trade-offs for things like speed, power, reload, efficiency, etc. PvE mods don't exist, PvP mods are rewarded from playing Conclave matches or killing Sentients in PvE. Very few PvP mods are buffs and are instead trade-offs, like mods that make you move faster decrease your durability, and vice a versa.

When it was first rebuilt they only had limited Warframes and weapons due to needing to individually balance every piece of gear in the game for PvP, every update since then re-balanced more weapons and Warframes for PvP, a while ago all weapons and Warframes were finally added and everything new going forward has separate PvP stats. Every update brings more refinements to this balancing system. 

Then, I can say the biggest issue they're having is advertising this and the rewards given by pvp, because from what I've heard people still think pvp is like dojo dueling. 

[Gelkor]

6 minutes ago, NeonNemesis said:

He makes a fair point on the pvp, I loathe the thing, but still I try to at least do daily quests (mainly the ones of complete x missions) to see if one day I'll be able to get 1 or 2 of those skins and that syandana, the thing is, everytime I try to play, that thing is completly empty. Plus, if you're not that good at pvp and you're starting that thing punishes you as hard as possible since pvp veterans will walk around with modded weapons that will destroy you easilly while your unmodded weapon will need a ton of hits to bring him down. 

Pvp should never have gotten mods, it now turned into a sort of the elite vs the peasants and are you godly enough in pvp games to overcome this disavantage or do you have the patience to get your a** kicked till you get enough rep to level up and buy all the necessary mods? 

The weapon mods are all just tradeoffs, though. Altering your damage spread or trading ammo pool for reload speed, that kind of thing. Or increasing or decreasing zoom, your unmodded weapon has equal potential as a modded one, it's potential just may be more directed to one area or another. The only weapon mods IMO that a necessary in PvP are the weapon swap speed and passive reload mods. 

What's destroying you is the fact that conclave veterans are all insanely agile acrobats who hipfire with 99% accuracy due to practice, experience, and knowledge of the maps.

Guys that do things like this: 

Spoiler

 

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/5gfd1f/this_is_the_kind_of_moment_that_i_live_for/

Edited December 5, 2016 by Gelkor

[Gelkor]

7 minutes ago, Icarican_Justicar said:

Then, I can say the biggest issue they're having is advertising this and the rewards given by pvp, because from what I've heard people still think pvp is like dojo dueling. 

Honestly, I think it's because they forgot to work on Dojo's. They made a HUGE deal about the conclave rework when it came out, and left Dojo's with the old system partly by popular demand because people still wanted to show off modding e-peen in dojos and partly because I think they were going to rework dueling when they got around to working on Dojo's. 

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

1 minute ago, Icarican_Justicar said:

Then, I can say the biggest issue they're having is advertising this and the rewards given by pvp, because from what I've heard people still think pvp is like dojo dueling. 

well, that is unfortunate. however its more unfortunate that most people who DO know its different and have tried it, still dont play it.

in my opinion, (mine and only mine cuz people seem to think im trying to talk for others when i say this) is that pvp in this sense doesnt even belong in this game and detracts from it on a conceptual level. prior to this last year, most game modes felt benefitted from teamwork. team synergy was more of a thing, building out frames to work as a team was how you got far in endgame content. teamwork and tenno brotherhood felt like more of a thing, clans and alliances worked together to accomplish things like taking solar rails and event leaderboards. the solar rails got taken away in favor of conclave, long runs for primes got replaced by 5 minute relic missions, events just got.... well... rathuum was weak and easily soloable, with the best team being all one frame modded the same way, playing the same way. and our next event was the same thing but gambling for credits while you do so. great. but basically i feel like all the things i used to do WITH people, got taken away in favor of a very pvp 5 minute match feeling mush that doesnt have heart, soul or purpose to it.