Why do people care about kill count?

[Deger27]

Just now, -BM-Leonhart said:

Ember does have the monopoly in the low levels, but that never bothered me. After all, an Ember can never out-damage me once the enemies are lvl 60+.

I'll take that challenge :)

[Deger27]

1 minute ago, KoboldMKB said:

There's also the fact that the extra affinity helps when you get challenges like "Get 30 Rifle kills". Bugs me when people steal all the kills and I can't complete my affinity challenge.

Let me know. I will gladly turn off my WoF so you can get your kills. Funny people say that but yet only my friends are the ones that tell me they need the kills. 

[(XBOX)Babadookcf]

18 minutes ago, Jackviator said:

...And to have fun playing through it. Which (for most players) involves killing stuff and feeling like they contributed to the team.

One of the reasons that people complain about kills at the end of missions, especially when things like Simulor Mirages and Embers are involved, and especially on PuG Exterminate missions, is that players dont always view these missions as just a task that needs to be completed. They don't view it as a chore, but as a fun activity.

And when someone like a MiraMulor or Ember user decides they just want the mission over with faster, it often robs the rest of the squad of that experience, that feeling of contribution, even just feeling like a badass space-ninja.

Efficiency isn't everything. If all someone wants out of a mission is for it to be over already, I have to ask why they are playing this game in the first place.

Warframe requires a lot of farming. At first it is all new to me but as the months go by with missions of similar instructions, it becomes numbing. And so if being faster at killing these enemies brings me closer to the rewards, then I have no problem with it wether or not I do the most kills. 

I can't spend every waking minute to bask in the greatness of each kill because I' e already done it the first few months being on warframe. 

But kudos to those who view every single mission with the same awe inspiring motivation as they did the first time they found warframe. Because I've certainly lost that touch. But regardless, I still have fun. I have my clan and the people I play with. We farm and grind and then make profit to buy comestics and such.

[(XBOX)Babadookcf]

9 minutes ago, Deger27 said:

Like mentioned before, me and my buddy like to have damage completions. But beyond that it really doesn't mean much. Of course a damage frame is going to do more damage than a support frame. Of course a veteran player is going to do more than a new player. 

People that compare damage to the whole team, I find are very narrow minded people and fail to see the bigger picture.

 

that being said I will say that I can be found comparing myself to anouther ember in the group if I'm playing mine. What can I say. No one is perfect. 

Haha yes I whole heartedly agree with your statement. And that comparison thing? I do the same thing haha. But I just shrug it off and say it was still "a job well done" 

[-N7-Leonhart]

9 minutes ago, Deger27 said:

I'll take that challenge :)

And that is partly because it lacks the damage to kill single tougher targets and partly because Ember has no defensive skills. Ember will never match something with very high damage boost and toughness like Chroma on high levels.

[Chrif1992]

Akkad, they go kill everything I am going to make lunch. 0 issues with this.

[(XBOX)Babadookcf]

11 minutes ago, NightBlitz said:

im assuming this is about ember, to which i have this to say:

we want to kill things too you know, its not about the statistics, its about wanting to actually play rather than just follow the ember the whole time

My thread isn't aimed at one warframe but several. I'm sure we all know who they are. And yes I do understand. But there is always an option to achieve the feeling. We have clans and friends we can invite and agree on a mission. And there are many places in the star chart that can test those warframes and weapons. 

But I do seem to believe that people mostly view this topic from the missions that have low lvl enemies. When it the enemy's lvl starts getting higher, that's when thing become challenging. If I bring an ember to a sortie, I don't kill every enemies within my range. Same with mirage and a synoid simulor. Or valkyr witb her hysteria and ash with his bladestorm.  

And so perspective on these low lvl missions can be different with the ones of higher levels. 

[chaotea]

Orcs Must Die Unchained has a good stat system post-game. It gives an overall rating, then gives stats on things like damage dealt.

[Deger27]

Just now, -BM-Leonhart said:

And that is partly because it lacks the damage to kill single tougher targets and partly because Ember has no defensive skills. Ember will never match something with very high damage boost and toughness like Chroma on high levels.

Ohhhh my friend. Much to learn about ember you have. :)

i will admit that I've spent way too much time with her (32% played, hehe, oops) but I can say mine will cut through lvl 80 sorties like a hot knife through butter

As for "ember has no defensive skills" *cough* firequake *cough*

[(XBOX)Babadookcf]

3 minutes ago, Chrif1992 said:

Akkad, they go kill everything I am going to make lunch. 0 issues with this.

Haha I find myself in this situation as well. I get to grab a drink or use the bathroom too. 

[(XBOX)Babadookcf]

14 minutes ago, Deger27 said:

Let me know. I will gladly turn off my WoF so you can get your kills. Funny people say that but yet only my friends are the ones that tell me they need the kills. 

I want to say, this is the best solution. We need communication in our squad. Often times no one really says anything and so in turn, we just keep doing our own thing. 

[OHKOBunny]

Maybe not so much about kill count, but some builds' survival is correlative to their kills or combo multiplier, and usually high DPS or cc frames aren't actually good enough to ensure the player's survival should THEY nuke the room, because eventually the nukes start missing targets or lose potency.

[(XBOX)Tyreal2012]

21 minutes ago, KoboldMKB said:

There's also the fact that the extra affinity helps when you get challenges like "Get 30 Rifle kills". Bugs me when people steal all the kills and I can't complete my affinity challenge.

I made the same point above.

[Azrael]

53 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Babadookcf said:

To finish it. And if a player finds an efficient way to do it, then all the more convenience to the others. Because in the end, the rewards are all the same. 

I believe it's unfair to use kill count to justify whether a frame should be nerfed. 

You are missing the fact that many of the arguments for nerfing something stem from ruined missions, not kill counts. If you killed more than me, fine. If you ruined my mission because I was blinded by your telos boltace spam or synoid simulor, or because you wiped every enemy off the map before I could even shoot, that's different. Some of us don't play *just* to get the reward. Some of us actually ENJOY PLAYING THE GAME! So if I want to shoot some bad guys and you make that practically impossible, then you've ruined the mission for me. And if every single time I play public there's a telos boltace spammer or a synoid mirage, and they have bright energy colors and blind me and kill everything at mach 10 without even bothering to aim, then that's gonna suck all the fun out of this game. It happens in sorties and fissures and alerts and invasions and random missions, and it gets really really old. So kill as much as you want, but please try to be considerate about it. And please don't act like the only reason anybody wants balance is because of their statistics. Balance is a real thing, and it's important.

[VampirePirate]

The most obvious answer to this is egotism.

I don't care about kill count.  The only time it ever matters to me is when I feel i need to keep my pace up during a mission, and i mean in comparison with the performance of other players.  Some times there's some noob that wants to show me up during a mission, and i can tell (in so many unmentioned details) by the way he/she plays.  At that point, if I am annoyed, i will keep track of my mission stats to make sure i outdo that person.  Some times i look at the kill count and other stats to get an idea of performance level during a mission, to learn what kind of player i am teamed up with.  i have many reasons for caring about it when i make it a matter, but overall i don't give a dang about the kill count.  if i am not awarded for my performance, why care?

 

I remember one time when i used to carry the boltor prime on my back and never use it just to mock elitist-meta players (of those times).  One guy, after the mission was complete, started questioning me in a condescending manner about why my kill count wasn't high when i had the boltor prime.  I told him it was because i never used it, because i don't like using primaries unless they are bows.  He got real smug about his kill count results and bragged about it before leaving the squad to do something else.  All of this was just a shoulder shrug for me, and a learning experience.  Some people just love to feel good about insignificant matters, because they need it, probably due to a lack of something in real life.  That's my speculation on that.  Who knows for sure?

*shrug*

Edited December 17, 2016 by VampirePirate

[(XBOX)Babadookcf]

25 minutes ago, KoboldMKB said:

There's also the fact that the extra affinity helps when you get challenges like "Get 30 Rifle kills". Bugs me when people steal all the kills and I can't complete my affinity challenge.

Have you tried mentioning this requirement to your squad in chat? I'm sure most people are willing to comply. 

[onieyez]

to me, kill count only matters when it comes to defense

because if you're not killing, then you're just making the game last way much longer than it should

[(XBOX)Babadookcf]

3 minutes ago, Azrael said:

You are missing the fact that many of the arguments for nerfing something stem from ruined missions, not kill counts. If you killed more than me, fine. If you ruined my mission because I was blinded by your telos boltace spam or synoid simulor, or because you wiped every enemy off the map before I could even shoot, that's different. Some of us don't play *just* to get the reward. Some of us actually ENJOY PLAYING THE GAME! So if I want to shoot some bad guys and you make that practically impossible, then you've ruined the mission for me. And if every single time I play public there's a telos boltace spammer or a synoid mirage, and they have bright energy colors and blind me and kill everything at mach 10 without even bothering to aim, then that's gonna suck all the fun out of this game. It happens in sorties and fissures and alerts and invasions and random missions, and it gets really really old. So kill as much as you want, but please try to be considerate about it. And please don't act like the only reason anybody wants balance is because of their statistics. Balance is a real thing, and it's important.

Half of what you wrote are your frustrations and I can understand that.  But in random squads? those things are bound to happen because there's different perspective on things. And without communication, no one really knows what's the other teammates feel. And so wishing that every single player you meet in random lobbies should comply with how you play is a little far fetched.  

But there is a solution. There are clans and friends for a reason. 

[(XBOX)Babadookcf]

1 minute ago, onieyez said:

to me, kill count only matters when it comes to defense

because if you're not killing, then you're just making the game last way much longer than it should

That's very true

[gluih]

32 minutes ago, Deger27 said:

Like mentioned before, me and my buddy like to have damage completions. But beyond that it really doesn't mean much. Of course a damage frame is going to do more damage than a support frame. Of course a veteran player is going to do more than a new player. 

People that compare damage to the whole team, I find are very narrow minded people and fail to see the bigger picture.

 

that being said I will say that I can be found comparing myself to anouther ember in the group if I'm playing mine. What can I say. No one is perfect. 

Of course you have to keep the frames and weapons that are used in mind and also what the actual objectives are, if you want to get any meaningful information out of the damage and kill numbers. 

Looking at the kill count does never give a lot of information about how powerful a warframe is, because there is so much more to a good warframe than just dealing a lot of damage.

I just get really frustrated when I'm in a public group and I feel like I'm doing everything by myself. Sometimes this is to be expected, but then I'm rushing through the mission myself or I see a low mr player.

36 minutes ago, NightBlitz said:

im assuming this is about ember, to which i have this to say:

we want to kill things too you know, its not about the statistics, its about wanting to actually play rather than just follow the ember the whole time

I don't mind having an ember in my team when doing lower level mission. Most enemies die from a single shot anyway and don't really fight back, so it's not actually all that much fun to me. And when the enemies are actually dangerous and it takes more affort to kill them, ember isn't that great anyway.

[Azrael]

8 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Babadookcf said:

And so wishing that every single player you meet in random lobbies should comply with how you play is a little far fetched.  

I'm not asking you to play the way I want, just to have some consideration. The other day we did a sortie exterminate in the kuva fortress. I love that tileset, and I enjoy sorties. But somebody brought a telos boltace and cheesed the entire mission. He also used a bright yellow energy color that totally blinded me anytime I got anywhere close to him. I ended up hanging at the back to save my eyes, and got almost no kills. Not that it mattered, the mission was totally ruined and zero fun already, so who cares about kill counts. But then he starts bragging about how he got way more kills than anyone else. So the rest of us (all 3 of us) told him off, and things got a little heated. The thing is, there was zero consideration. He made the entire mission unplayable and then bragged about it. And your response is:

13 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Babadookcf said:

wishing that every single player you meet in random lobbies should comply with how you play is a little far fetched.

 

That's part why I want it to be nerfed. Not only is it unbalanced and cheesy, but it turns people into inconsiderate players who ruin missions and can't be asked to be a little considerate because "lol it's public so what did you expect?" If I can't ask random players to not make the game unplayable, then nerfs are the only option outside of just never playing public. And before you say to never play public, ask yourself this: is that really healthy for warframe? Try telling new players "oh, warframe is loads of fun. Just don't ever play on public because they'll ruin your mission and it's unfair to ask them not to." Is it really better to have public games be 100% cheese, than it is to have things actually be balanced?

Nerfs are a necessary part of keeping everything in line, of preventing power creep from ruining the game. Without nerfs the game would have drowned in cheese a long time ago, and it's still in danger of exactly that. Would you support the devs adding a button that just insta-wins the mission for you? Just imagine it: you enter the mission, walk to the wall, and click the button. Then you win and get your reward. Sound like fun? Would that be good for warframe? Because that's what some of these overpowered frames and weapons are. Just slide to extraction and everything's dead.

[(XBOX)Prime Pedestal]

Really though it's all about getting creative, people complained about Ash killing everything but I for one never really had any problems with an Ash, infact I quite enjoyed the challenge of seeing if I could out kill them and more often that not I did, its all about finding a work around. Most frames have the potential to have the highest kill count, it's just about the builds you're using. At the end of the day weapons (especially melee) scale so so so much better than abilities do. Mirage and Simulor I despise though, purely for the fact that 99% of players feel the need to have a neon green or equally garish energy colour that is horrible to look at, but then again in a mission like Exterminate, where the name even suggests the objective is to kill as quickly as possible I really don't mind if someone kills everything for me.

Just now, gluih said:

I don't mind having an ember in my team when doing lower level mission. Most enemies die from a single shot anyway and don't really fight back, so it's not actually all that much fun to me. And when the enemies are actually dangerous and it takes more affort to kill them, ember isn't that great anyway.

I see so many people say that Ember is not good at high level, but ths simply isn't true. She can very easily kill the low armoured level 100+ enemies with WoF, which is what she's designed to do. Ember is an add control frame, but with the right build you can get a 100% status chance on your 4th ability which basically stops things from shooting at you. Then of course you can take the firequake augment along with a decent melee weapon, and the ground finishers it opens up make quick work of anything. Yes she doesn't have much in terms of survivabilty, but seen as her WoF only targets 5 enemies at once, the key is to be constantly moving making you 10x harder to hit and in turn moving the ability effects between enemies making sure everything gets procd with a heat status effect and panics.

[Sziklamester]

I don't care often the stats but this game mean stats. If you look at your weapons, frames, kill - death - clan stats etc then you see the whole game is a big stat. There is no other reason to do something other then do something then check ur stats which mean here you phisically did that exact mission. If some better in kills than you it can be a reason for you to be better than the other. This is the nature of race and capitalist world be better than the others. Teamplay and so called this is almost non existant because there are no real teamplay situations and the communication options are lack. The other fact most of th peoples here just come and want to kill something and the teamwork is in the 10+above place. The synergy also non existant because peoples not practicing their skills and not using it when really needs only spam when they feel they should. The game is mostly a challange with statistic and with yourself and the other peoples do the same as you so we can talk about it safely there is nothing more to care about than stats. For example I am care for my mission numbers to be possible good. (finished-aborted-lost) and my ratio is good because avoiding those places where I can fail or groups whom can fail my game. (ctrl+alt+del) often useful to care your stats. I failed sometimes for example just by joining a mission which was in the verge of lose and the all players in that match was dead or downed.

[(XBOX)Babadookcf]

4 minutes ago, Azrael said:

I'm not asking you to play the way I want, just to have some consideration. The other day we did a sortie exterminate in the kuva fortress. I love that tileset, and I enjoy sorties. But somebody brought a telos boltace and cheesed the entire mission. He also used a bright yellow energy color that totally blinded me anytime I got anywhere close to him. I ended up hanging at the back to save my eyes, and got almost no kills. Not that it mattered, the mission was totally ruined and zero fun already, so who cares about kill counts. But then he starts bragging about how he got way more kills than anyone else. So the rest of us (all 3 of us) told him off, and things got a little heated. The thing is, there was zero consideration. He made the entire mission unplayable and then bragged about it. And your response is:

 

That's part why I want it to be nerfed. Not only is it unbalanced and cheesy, but it turns people into inconsiderate players who ruin missions and can't be asked to be a little considerate because "lol it's public so what did you expect?" If I can't ask random players to not make the game unplayable, then nerfs are the only option outside of just never playing public. And before you say to never play public, ask yourself this: is that really healthy for warframe? Try telling new players "oh, warframe is loads of fun. Just don't ever play on public because they'll ruin your mission and it's unfair to ask them not to." Is it really better to have public games be 100% cheese, than it is to have things actually be balanced?

Nerfs are a necessary part of keeping everything in line, of preventing power creep from ruining the game. Without nerfs the game would have drowned in cheese a long time ago, and it's still in danger of exactly that. Would you support the devs adding a button that just insta-wins the mission for you? Just imagine it: you enter the mission, walk to the wall, and click the button. Then you win and get your reward. Sound like fun? Would that be good for warframe? Because that's what some of these overpowered frames and weapons are. Just slide to extraction and everything's dead.

With public lobbies, there's no guarantee of the type of people you will get. You get a variety of people honestly. And frustrating people are always present. It's almost possible to avoid them unless you invite clan members and friends. And never did I mention that nerfs are not a necessity, only that it is unfair to use kill count as a reason for it as some people have in the forums. 

Overpowered frames? Take any of the frames we have in a high level mission and trust me, they get their butts handed to them.  From the bombards to nullifiers, things get nasty. If we're talking about enemies below 40, then of course, most frames a overpowerd because of their cc damage and the weapons. One of the thing that's ruining the game is the enemies and it's AI. I have no solution for it and so that's why my thread is not this topic. 

Inconsiderate people are everywhere. Here and in real life. 

Even with nerfs, they still find something new to abuse. 

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

I think its because that mission complete screen shows damage dealt, damage received, kill count, etc before any other mission metric. If you scroll down there are others like revives and stuff. No assists, though.

When I go into a mission, its because its an alert or invasion with a reward that I want or its because I'm doing my syndicates for the day. If your high kill count lets me get what I want faster with little to no effort on my part, then you can have all the kill count you want.