The Telos Boltace should have a cooldown on its wave attack

[Kaokasalis]

Because right now it feels like the Synoid Simulor of melee weapons. A weapon that requires very little effort on the users part to use and easily kills everything near the user. I dont think the damage or any other of the Telos Boltace´s stats should be nerfed, no the issue lies in how fast its wave attack can be spammed. When combined with a Primed Reach, Maiming Strike and your standard damage build the Telos Boltace becomes absolutely crazy but thats fine. Those two mods are rare and hard to earn so combined they should make the wave hit like a rock but its just get ridiculous when certain warframe powers that improve melee speed and key binds are used in tandem to let out more than 1 wave per second.

Heres a example.

Ive seen plenty of people do this in PUGs and theres just no fun playing with these people because they kill everything when they move through a room with little to no effort. The wave should be powerful with the proper mods but we shouldnt be able to spam it like this.

I propose that when a wave is launched from the Telos Boltace, a 2 second cooldown will trigger and another wave cannot be launched until the cooldown passes.

[Yakhul]

This and the Synoid Simulor are the 2 things i hate the most currently.

[Magneu]

Can't wait to see people defend this "tactic". How exactly is that fun, engaging gameplay?

 

IMO, the wave should be used for mass AOE status procs, not this insane damage/spamming we have now. That and the SySim have the most obnoxious FX when spammed, to boot.

[LSG501]

Yeah I hate this too.... not so much due to the damage just the sheer amount of particle/noise spam it creates.  A cooldown would resolve this pretty quickly although I'd like to see more than 2 seconds, I think 5 is better :).   Actually who am I kidding, I hate the particle/noise spam enough to want it's wave attack to be taken away.... I have the same dislike with the synoid simulor and the swooshing noise when Excalibur players spam their exalted blade and try to treat it like it's a laser...

I just find it comical that DE introduced this weapon but nerf other weapons/warframes because they are op or are 'press 4 to win'... with key bindings and macro's this is just as bad if not worse than a lot of warframe abilities. 

Edited December 18, 2016 by LSG501

[Triplemob720]

It truly is baffling that DE did a remake of Ash's fourth ability because of player participation problem, and yet SPIN2WIN weapons like Atterax or Telos Boltace are untouched. With primed reach + maiming strike, the range and damage skyrockets to the point where all you need to do is spinattack and all the enemy bites the dust. I would say whip weapons in general shares the same problem as telos boltace, maybe even more severe since whip can abuse bloodrush + maiming strike = redcritting all the time. DE really should be consistent about the player participation problem among weapons and powers, since Spin2Win isn't more participating than Press4ToWin.

 Personally, I don't think it is necessarily bad to spam powerful attacks, but if DE truly wish to increase player interactions, they should be looking at these weapon categories

[Robolaser]

Regardless of why some people use/abuse these weapons and features, and why DE let them, they should not, in any circumstances, allow anyone to deny other players in the squad the right to enjoy the game, too.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Robolaser

[Fast_98]

God I love the forums sometimes. This is so entertaining, you to want to nerf a weapon because it range is visible? The atterax(any whip) and orthos Prime (any staff or polearm) have been doing this for years now and they never were complained about. Heck they actually do crazier amounts of damage then what the boltace can with the same build. 

Plus your forgetting that main reason the boltace side is considered "op" is due to a 600 plat mod. While any other weapon can just plug in body count/ bloodrush and beat it with 2x combo.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Fast_98

[Kaokasalis]

6 hours ago, Fast_98 said:

God I love the forums sometimes. This is so entertaining, you to want to nerf a weapon because it range is visible? The atterax(any whip) and orthos Prime (any staff or polearm) have been doing this for years now and they never were complained about. Heck they actually do crazier amounts of damage then what the boltace can with the same build. 

Plus your forgetting that main reason the boltace side is considered "op" is due to a 600 plat mod. While any other weapon can just plug in body count/ bloodrush and beat it with 2x combo.

Did you read my post or did you just skim the title? I dont see any need to nerf the power or range of the Telos Boltace´s wave or the weapon itself, just how frequently it can be used because the things like in the video that you can current do is ridiculous and absolutely broken. Also, I see no problem with any of the weapons you mentioned even when they use the same builds because they dont have the same range as a Telos Boltace. Did you know that the range of the wave is 9 meters? When combined with a Primed Reach that becomes 24 meters. No other weapon have range of that length, not the Atterax, not the Orthos prime or any other polearms, staffs or whips for that matter. Primal Fury might but that's another matter as that's a warframe power.

Lastly, I already said that the wave should remain powerful because Primed Reach and Maiming Strike are hard to come by. A 2 second cooldown on the wave would still allow it to be used often, just not to that broken amount we have right now. Also any other weapon still have to work for their combo when using Body Count and Bloodrush together but the Telos Boltace does not because of the speed the waves can be fired off from.

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

Maxed pretty much every weapon and my two favorite melee are Venka Prime and Telos Boltace.

If DE deemed it necessary to add a 2 second CD i maybe could get behind this. BUT If they did this without first fixing the Mirage + SS combo then i would be very salty. As it's a good way to compete with them. ☺

[Dragazer]

3 hours ago, Hieracon said:

Did you read my post or did you just skim the title? I dont see any need to nerf the power or range of the Telos Boltace´s wave or the weapon itself, just how frequently it can be used because the things like in the video that you can current do is ridiculous and absolutely broken. Also, I see no problem with any of the weapons you mentioned even when they use the same builds because they dont have the same range as a Telos Boltace. Did you know that the range of the wave is 9 meters? When combined with a Primed Reach that becomes 24 meters. No other weapon have range of that length, not the Atterax, not the Orthos prime or any other polearms, staffs or whips for that matter. Primal Fury might but that's another matter as that's a warframe power.

Lastly, I already said that the wave should remain powerful because Primed Reach and Maiming Strike are hard to come by. A 2 second cooldown on the wave would still allow it to be used often, just not to that broken amount we have right now. Also any other weapon still have to work for their combo when using Body Count and Bloodrush together but the Telos Boltace does not because of the speed the waves can be fired off from.

"I dont see any need to nerf the power or range of the Telos Boltace"

"just how frequently it can be used"

You do realize, that nerfing the frequency of the waves, nerfs DPS meaning that is in fact a nerf to power.

You seem to forget to mention that the Telos Boltace waves has severe damage fall off over distance.

Not only that, but the waves are unaffected by the combo multiplier or blood rush bonuses.

It also only hits enemies in LoS, so only enemies that you can see and unblocked by obstacles are hit

Nothing was broken in that video

lvl 35 armorless infested  gets rekt by weapon with rare mods? What a surprise!

Honestly what did you expect?

Edited December 18, 2016 by Dragazer

[Dragazer]

14 hours ago, LSG501 said:

Yeah I hate this too.... not so much due to the damage just the sheer amount of particle/noise spam it creates.  A cooldown would resolve this pretty quickly although I'd like to see more than 2 seconds, I think 5 is better :).   Actually who am I kidding, I hate the particle/noise spam enough to want it's wave attack to be taken away.... I have the same dislike with the synoid simulor and the swooshing noise when Excalibur players spam their exalted blade and try to treat it like it's a laser...

I just find it comical that DE introduced this weapon but nerf other weapons/warframes because they are op or are 'press 4 to win'... with key bindings and macro's this is just as bad if not worse than a lot of warframe abilities. 

Let me get this straight, your problem with the weapon is the visuals and audio, so you want to nerf the weapons performance? *Logic*

You seem to forget that this weapon has a severe damage fall off over distance with the waves and it only hits in LoS

Edited December 18, 2016 by Dragazer

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, Dragazer said:

Let me get this straight, your problem with the weapon is the visuals and audio, so you want to nerf the weapons performance? *Logic*

You seem to forget that this weapon has a severe damage fall off over distance with the waves and it only hits in LoS

Yes it's that bad imo...... but it's not just the particle waves as said by others, the whole wave system is little more than a 'press 4' ability when you consider that you can easily pick up software or keyboards that support key binding etc.   Actually the current obsession with 'visual noise' by DE is getting pretty bad, it's starting to get to the stage that it's not making the game look pretty, it's starting to make it hard to actually see what we're doing, this weapon plus infested particles might as well mean we're walking blind in some cases. 

Also some weapons do need a nerf to their dps, synoid simulor is one, this is another.  When one weapon can basically do what the whole team is supposed to do then by that simple perspective you can argue it's overpowered...

It's pretty clear you like using the weapon and I would even put money on you doing the equivalent of coptering through a level with it.  If there is nothing left for other people to do how is that any different to people who just leave their 4 active and wipe out the entire map as they run along, you know those press 4 to win abilities that everyone seems to want nerfing.......

Edited December 18, 2016 by LSG501

[Dragazer]

13 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

Yes it's that bad imo...... but it's not just the particle waves as said by others, the whole wave system is little more than a 'press 4' ability when you consider that you can easily pick up software or keyboards that support key binding etc.  

Also some weapons do need a nerf to their dps, synoid simulor is one, this is another.  When one weapon can basically do what the whole team is supposed to do then by that simple perspective you can argue it's overpowered...

It's pretty clear you like using the weapon and I would even put money on you doing the equivalent of coptering through a level with it.  If there is nothing left for other people to do how is that any different to people who just leave their 4 active and wipe out the entire map as they run along, you know those press 4 to win abilities that everyone seems to want nerfing.......

Except due to dmg fall-off and LoS limitation the telos boltace actually requires you to move around, you can't compare it to those p42w stuff.

Like I said b4 fully modded weapons with rare mods one shotting low level mobs is no surprise, that's how it's supposed to be

Play with the Telos boltace in Lvl 100 sorties, and then talk because you clearly haven't:

 

Good job on the baseless assumption but no, after playing around with it fully modded, Telos Boltace is no where near the level of some of my favorite melees. Due to said limitations. (Dmg falloff, LoS, no effect from blood rush or combo counter)

There are far stronger melees but I won't name them, seeing how the Nerf Brigade are getting their panties in a twist over the Telos Boltace

 

Edited December 18, 2016 by Dragazer

[radastir]

This is a horde shooter, not Mass Effect. Go and learn your tile sets, farm for the good stuff instead of demanding nerfs for it and don't complain about players who did their homework!

Edited December 18, 2016 by radastir

[low1991]

15 hours ago, Hieracon said:

I propose that when a wave is launched from the Telos Boltace, a 2 second cooldown will trigger and another wave cannot be launched until the cooldown passes.

Make it release those wave on charge attacks plox.

15 hours ago, Zoknahal said:

This and the Synoid Simulor are the 2 things i hate the most currently.

Visual effects... are OP.

[radastir]

@Hieracon: The Youtuber who made this video did a great job in maxing this out. He clearly ran solo so he did not spoil anybody's fun. So please stop trying to grief other player's fun with pointless nerf threads just because of [insert random excuse here].

Edited December 18, 2016 by radastir
detoxed statement

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, Dragazer said:

Except due to dmg fall-off and LoS limitation the telos boltace actually requires you to move around, you can't compare it to those p42w stuff.

Like I said b4 fully modded weapons with rare mods one shotting low level mobs is no surprise, that's how it's supposed to be

Play with the Telos boltace in Lvl 100 sorties, and then talk because you clearly haven't:

 

Good job on the baseless assumption but no, after playing around with it fully modded, Telos Boltace is no where near the level of some of my favorite melees. Due to said limitations. (Dmg falloff, LoS, no effect from blood rush or combo counter)

There are far stronger melees but I won't name them, seeing how the Nerf Brigade are getting their panties in a twist over the Telos Boltace

 

really... you show your stats page... my stats page is so out of touch with what I use it's stupid and it can easily be skewed based on how long you've been playing and how long a weapon has been out etc.

And the rest of your post is the same as the last one so no need repeating myself.

[Dragazer]

7 minutes ago, LSG501 said:

really... you show your stats page... my stats page is so out of touch with what I use it's stupid and it can easily be skewed based on how long you've been playing and how long a weapon has been out etc.

And the rest of your post is the same as the last one so no need repeating myself.

My point is you haven't even bothered using the weapon at all, and you are asking for nerfs.

Which is completely ridiculous 

You can go ahead and check my profile I don't have anything to hide.

I'm not the one who is asking to nerf a weapon I haven't even touched.

This forums #1 problem is ppl crying and whining to nerf weapons/frames they have never used.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Dragazer

[Kaokasalis]

2 hours ago, Dragazer said:

"I dont see any need to nerf the power or range of the Telos Boltace"

"just how frequently it can be used"

 

You do realize, that nerfing the frequency of the waves, nerfs DPS meaning that is in fact a nerf to power.

You seem to forget to mention that the Telos Boltace waves has severe damage fall off over distance.

Not only that, but the waves are unaffected by the combo multiplier or blood rush bonuses.

It also only hits enemies in LoS, so only enemies that you can see and unblocked by obstacles are hit

Nothing was broken in that video

lvl 35 armorless infested  gets rekt by weapon with rare mods? What a surprise!

Honestly what did you expect?

Of course would reducing the frequency of the waves be a nerf to the DPS of the waves but I worded it like that to specify that my issue with the weapon does not lie in its stats. Only how often the waves can spammed. A level 100 heavy gunner can still be killed by 3 to 4 close slides with the build I use in the video below.

Yes the damage does fall off but that's still hardly a issue in the video.

The strength of the waves comes from the status chance of the Telos Boltace.

This honestly depends on the tileset youre playing in. Many tilesets has large open rooms which measn enemies are often visible and the AI in Warframe is not known for hiding.

Yes it was. That speed is just dumb. Regular attacks maybe but slide attacks should at least require a buildup.

Works on level 100 heavy gunners without issue, sure nothing broken here. Of course it would also go through level 35 enemies like a lawnmover and a lawn but do you think its fun playing with anyone that uses a weapon like that? Its not a matter of getting the most kills but if i cant even kill anything because someone is dashing through while obliterating everything at the speed of light then i cant have fun which gives me little incentive to play the current match.

 

1 hour ago, radastir said:

@Hieracon: The Youtuber who made this video did a great job in maxing this out. He clearly ran solo so he did not spoil anybody's fun. So please stop trying to grief other player's fun with pointless nerf threads just because of [insert random excuse here].

If you cant make a constructive post without any counter argument and have to rely on a baseless lazily-thought up reason for blaming others to get your message across then please dont waste youre and my time.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Hieracon

[Dragazer]

40 minutes ago, Hieracon said:

Of course would reducing the frequency of the waves be a nerf to the DPS of the waves but I worded it like that to specify that my issue with the weapon does not lie in its stats. Only how often the waves can spammed. A level 100 heavy gunner can still be killed by 3 to 4 close slides with the build I use in the video below.

Yes the damage does fall off but that's still hardly a issue in the video.

The strength of the waves comes from the status chance of the Telos Boltace.

This honestly depends on the tileset youre playing in. Many tilesets has large open rooms which measn enemies are often visible and the AI in Warframe is not known for hiding.

Yes it was. That speed is just dumb. Regular attacks maybe but slide attacks should at least require a buildup.

Works on level 100 heavy gunners without issue, sure nothing broken here.

 

If you cant make a constructive post without any counter argument and have to rely on a baseless lazily-thought up reason for blaming others to get your message across then please dont waste youre and my time.

Like I mentioned b4 nothing new or impressive, plenty of weapons could do the same or better b4 the telos boltace with the right build

BTW that was no where close to 3-4 slides

Edited December 18, 2016 by Dragazer

[Fast_98]

6 hours ago, Hieracon said:

Did you read my post or did you just skim the title? I dont see any need to nerf the power or range of the Telos Boltace´s wave or the weapon itself, just how frequently it can be used because the things like in the video that you can current do is ridiculous and absolutely broken. Also, I see no problem with any of the weapons you mentioned even when they use the same builds because they dont have the same range as a Telos Boltace. Did you know that the range of the wave is 9 meters? When combined with a Primed Reach that becomes 24 meters. No other weapon have range of that length, not the Atterax, not the Orthos prime or any other polearms, staffs or whips for that matter. Primal Fury might but that's another matter as that's a warframe power.

Lastly, I already said that the wave should remain powerful because Primed Reach and Maiming Strike are hard to come by. A 2 second cooldown on the wave would still allow it to be used often, just not to that broken amount we have right now. Also any other weapon still have to work for their combo when using Body Count and Bloodrush together but the Telos Boltace does not because of the speed the waves can be fired off from.

Sorry was gone for a while haven't read the other comments yets. You do know that the boltace can't hit enemies behind obstacles or other enemies and due to damage falloff it 22 range is pretty infective at 14 metres your not doing much damage at all? The boltace slide doesn't even count for it combo unlike every other weapon. Again you seem to glance over that it actually a status weapon and it greatest power comes from it slide and it "op" due to a rare 600 plat mod.

 

 

Heck if you want a solution just ask  DE to make the Energy wave invisible.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Fast_98

[Kutsus]

> Remove fun things plz

No

[radastir]

26 minutes ago, Hieracon said:

If you cant make a constructive post without any counter argument and have to rely on a baseless lazily-thought up reason for blaming others to get your message across then please dont waste youre and my time.

There you go:

1 hour ago, radastir said:

This is a horde shooter, not Mass Effect. Go and learn your tile sets, farm for the good stuff instead of demanding nerfs for it and don't complain about players who did their homework!

 

[LSG501]

1 hour ago, Dragazer said:

My point is you haven't even bothered using the weapon at all, and you are asking for nerfs.

Which is completely ridiculous 

You can go ahead and check my profile I don't have anything to hide.

I'm not the one who is asking to nerf a weapon I haven't even touched.

This forums #1 problem is ppl crying and whining to nerf weapons/frames they have never used.

Really, never even noticed it was my stats page... if you were so willing for me to check yours out why didn't you just show it in the first place....whether I used it or not has no bearing on my issue with the weapon. 

Also it's funny that you're now resorting to the fact I haven't used it myself as a defence mechanism when my complaint is about how it affects OTHER PLAYERS when it's being used by someone else....you can try to say it isn't all you like but the simple fact is that when other people are using the weapon in the way shown in that video (and they do, I've seen plenty) it creates particle/noise spam which is annoying as anything and the damage side of things is as bad as the synoid simulor or any of the other weapons/frames that make it pointless for other people to be doing that level with the person using their 'solo mission' in a public group.  You can also argue about fall off all you like but lets be realistic here, the only places that has any real impact is on the few open space maps we have, a high majority are in 'enclosed spaces' where fall off has limited impact.

Actually the problem with this forum isn't the people wanting things changed because they have a problem with a weapon/frame mechanic, it's those out there who can't actually see a problem with the weapons because they're worried it might actually make them have to work for their kills instead of spamming their weapon. 

Edited December 18, 2016 by LSG501

[Kaokasalis]

34 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

Like I mentioned b4 nothing new or impressive, plenty of weapons could do the same or better b4 the telos boltace with the right build

BTW that was no where close to 3-4 slides

Which is not a issue because they at least demand involvement from the player, Telos Boltace wave spam does not.

Close slide mean right next to them, as in hitting them with the weapon itself rather than the wave. In the vid I tried to maintain at least 10-12 meters but the keybind which I put on my mouse were not ideal so I did come closer than intended at certain points in the video. I am however not so fast as the user in the first video I posted.

35 minutes ago, Fast_98 said:

Sorry was gone for a while haven't read the other comments yets. You do know that the boltace can't hit enemies behind obstacles or other enemies and due to damage falloff it 22 range is pretty infective at 14 metres your not doing much damage at all? The boltace slide doesn't even count for it combo unlike every other weapon. Again you seem to glance over that it actually a status weapon and it greatest power comes from it slide and it "op" due to a rare 600 plat mod.

 

 

Heck if you want a solution just ask  DE to make the Energy wave invisible.

Read my responses to Dragazer.

31 minutes ago, radastir said:

There you go:

 

Telling me to "git gud" is still not a proper augment.