should loki be reworked?

[(XBOX)HenCeption]

The fact is loki can trivialize almost all of the content in the game and (in my opinion at least) should be changed. But loki is in a very odd spot where even a small change could make him awful and the backlash from the community could be horrendous with any change. So how do you think his powers could be changed so he is still in a good place and keep the most of the loki fans happy.

 

Edit: No it seems the consensus is almost everyone would hate that and those that dont hate it dont care

Edited January 1, 2017 by (XB1)HenCeption

[(PSN)Danilo_Franz]

No lol, Loki is just fine, no need to rework

Decoy it's a good distraction skill

Invisibility... Well, no need to explain

Switch teleport with his augment it's ok

Radial disarm it's a endgame skill

Why someone would ask a rework?

[NobleParadox96]

loki scales well into endgame content... don't see the point why he should be reworked since people use him like how he's supposed to work

[(XBOX)HenCeption]

Just now, (PS4)Danilo_Franz said:

No lol, Loki is just fine, no need to rework

Decoy it's a good distraction skill

Invisibility... Well, no need to explain

Switch teleport with his augment it's ok

Radial disarm it's a endgame skill

Why someone would ask a rework?

 

because he trivializes everything. I didn't want to put it in the topic but what i mean is a nerf

[Mergo537]

Just now, (PS4)Danilo_Franz said:

No lol, Loki is just fine, no need to rework

Decoy it's a good distraction skill

Invisibility... Well, no need to explain

Switch teleport with his augment it's ok

Radial disarm it's a endgame skill

Why someone would ask a rework?

Because as stated above Loki trivializes most everything in the the game by himself and DE has reworked other frames for their "press 4 to win" kits.

Which Loki compares to with his disarm.

[(PSN)Danilo_Franz]

Just now, Mergo537 said:

Because as stated above Loki trivializes most everything in the the game by himself and DE has reworked other frames for their "press 4 to win" kits.

Which Loki compares to with his disarm.

Yeah, if you don't have invisibility on you die in 1 shot at endgame missions

"But the enemy is disarmed"

The skill have a range, and at high level missions they will shoot a grakata like a sniper

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

Jesus buddy if you think Loki does.... almost every frame does....

We have mods and arcanes that scale us well into the 100s and by then your insanely bored...

PS i main Inaros and Frost and you don't need to be invisible to be invincible. 😂

Edited January 1, 2017 by (PS4)Mofojokers

[Mergo537]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Danilo_Franz said:

Yeah, if you don't have invisibility on you die in 1 shot at endgame missions

"But the enemy is disarmed"

The skill have a range, and at high level missions they will shoot a grakata like a sniper

Tell me what Loki isn't perma invis all the time and you might have a point there.

Disarmed and ignoring you to fight anything they are close to since you are invisible and can easily kill them.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Mergo537

[Trichouette]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)Danilo_Franz said:

Switch teleport with his augment it's ok

And you just gave one good reason for him to be reworked.

 

In my opinion his invisibility should have a downside like ivara.

I had an idea for a loki rework but people would hate it, it would be something like "his passive is to have longer latch time and he's invisible while latched to a wall. But he would have a new 2nd ability that doesn't involve invisibility.

[Naftal]

I think Loki needs a nerf in the regard that he can forget about str and use overextended without any downside.

Or alternatively give every frame one power stat they can minimize without any downsides.

[(PSN)Danilo_Franz]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Mofojokers said:

PS i main Inaros and Frost and you don't need to be invisible to be invincible. 😂

But Inaros and a globe build Frost are tanks

Loki isn't

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

Just now, (PS4)Danilo_Franz said:

But Inaros and a globe build Frost are tanks

Loki isn't

Hydroid , Nekki , Ash , Nova etc... our current mods allow all frames to be high end.

I tend to swap between all my frames since i don't have anything to level or forma atm.😕

[Zepp_]

I did a lot of research on this, it turns out Loki is still perfect.  No change needed or wanted.

[Nekro_Darkmoon]

First Of all Decoy doesnt last at all in open space whn missions go above the 50lvl mark. Invisibility  can keep you from being detected but it cant stop enemies from doing damage to you eg (eximus aura). Do u even corpus ? Nullifiers love loki there. Switch teleport is mostly fine i just use it to traverse areas or fetch ppl that stand right in front of you at extraction :P . As for radial disarm while it is true that radial disarm is kinda OP but so are lvl 120 enemies with sticks. Ive been beaten to death a lot :P

 

[Cray]

Arson Exmius procs, Sapping Ospreys, Nullifiers, Scrambus/Combas... Plenty of AoE abilities out there that can hurt an invisible disarm loki. And he's paper-thin.

 

I can and have gone down as Loki in high level content. Invisibility is not a free pass to god mode. Disarm may take their guns, but they can still melee.

[(XBOX)Variiiz]

23 minutes ago, Mergo537 said:

Because as stated above Loki trivializes most everything in the the game by himself and DE has reworked other frames for their "press 4 to win" kits.

Which Loki compares to with his disarm.

And as soon as you are caught out of invisibility he is downed instantly. He is very frail and he uses stealth to keep himself alive. Plus, there are other frames that are in more need of a rework than Loki.

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

People ask for the wrong frames to be reworked.

[(XBOX)HenCeption]

1 minute ago, Nekro_Darkmoon said:

First Of all Decoy doesnt last at all in open space whn missions go above the 50lvl mark. Invisibility  can keep you from being detected but it cant stop enemies from doing damage to you eg (eximus aura). Do u even corpus ? Nullifiers love loki there. Switch teleport is mostly fine i just use it to traverse areas or fetch ppl that stand right in front of you at extraction :P . As for radial disarm while it is true that radial disarm is kinda OP but so are lvl 120 enemies with sticks. Ive been beaten to death a lot :P

 

 

with our parkour abilities and speed, melee-only enemies are no problem at all to combat and with even just stretch on you can easily avoid any damage with radial disarm and with irradiating it is even easier and his invisibility can be easily modded so that even with just energy siphon he be refunded all energy he just used. his other two abilities are fine though like you said and maybe decoy could just be based on duration and not have health

 

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)SilverWolf198 said:

And as soon as you are caught out of invisibility he is downed instantly. He is very frail and he uses stealth to keep himself alive. Plus, there are other frames that are in more need of a rework than Loki.

 

definitely correct. other frames need more help then he needs a nerf but eventually i would like to see it happen 

[Mergo537]

19 minutes ago, (Xbox One)SilverWolf198 said:

And as soon as you are caught out of invisibility he is downed instantly. He is very frail and he uses stealth to keep himself alive. Plus, there are other frames that are in more need of a rework than Loki.

But I ask you what decent Loki allows themselves to be caught out of invisibility?

All you have to do is recast somewhere safe while the disarmed enemies fight amongst themselves.

Also, I am not saying he needs to be reworked right now but I would not be surprised if he was later down the line.

Edited January 1, 2017 by Mergo537

[Darkmoone1]

The abilities are simple, but effective. This generally isn't a topic I would touch. However, I would love some touch ups to decoy. 

[Nekro_Darkmoon]

in that sense Nyx wld be the same her 4th negates damgage while her 3rd smwht takes off agro from you

[(XBOX)HenCeption]

2 minutes ago, Nekro_Darkmoon said:

in that sense Nyx wld be the same her 4th negates damgage while her 3rd smwht takes off agro from you

but her 4 also hinders her and stops her from moving or with the augment makes her move way slower and it drains and loki has a permanent debuff vs enemies

[Helljack84]

A simple question to answer your request: Why doesn't everyone play Loki?

[ComCray]

Obviously asked by someone who hasn't taken Loki to end-game in the real world. Look, Loki might be awesome in the simularcum against lvl 140+ enemies, but try take him out in a real game and you see why the simularcum is NOT representative.
Loki's invis won't do sh1t if you're helping a downed ally and that bombard is unloading on said teammates sentinel. Radial Disarm stops working as soon as the next batch of enemies is spawned, you need impeccable timing to make this work 100%. Actually, having said that, Loki's power is all down to timing and battle-field-awareness, which is a skill very few of us posses..

So, again, Loki might feel invincible in controlled environments. In real end-game he is as much a glass-cannon as Saryn or Banshee (which are both deadly as clem but squishy nontheless..)

[SnuggleBuckets]

Loki is great as he is, I love Loki, but I also suck while playing as him, I'm a sloppy player who is actually more comfortable playing the slow tanky frames, Loki requires some skill in my experience, a high risk high reward sort of warframe.

Invisibility in general as a mechanic could maybe use some tweaks, finer gradients to sound detection volume and proximity, with probabilities that enemies who hear something will maybe take a shot or two in the general direction from where they heard that sound, so a 33% chance to shoot in the direction of sound with some kind of accuracy penalty on the enemy (/evasion on you?). Finer adjustment to footstep volume, where crouching is true stealth mode and running and the start of bulletjumps have minor sounds. Maybe add a growing probability of detection if an enemy is staring right at you while you're invisible and you're not moving away from their field of view (you do have some wavy effects after all around you, but they should only think you were at that spot they last saw you at). And bumping into enemies will not just startle them but also have a chance of quick retaliation (not guaranteed, that would be too boring, sometimes it seems more quirky for AI to startle and look around alarmed), something like a wild melee swing as they turn around to the direction from where you bumped into them. Too bad the engine they use probably doesn't allow for the proper use of shadows for stealth as well, for those who run stealth missions without a Loki or Ivara.

You should be able to hide bodies, enemies should have more than three states of alertness for those times that they catch a glimpse of something or just about hear something 49 meters away or in another room, there should be clearer timers for enemies losing alert states and returning to normal patrols, this should apply to all enemies in every room on a tileset, to not force a level to become alert for the rest of the mission, regardless of faction.

Edited January 1, 2017 by SnuggleBuckets