HEMA Final Word - No Mutagen Drop or Cost change

[ChuckMaverick]

2 hours ago, Volinus7 said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/5olc6d/de_steve_were_removing_credit_cost_from_maroos/

So much honor™  for those who spent credits. 

Not comparable at all, everyone benefits from getting rid of the double tax on sculptures.

[Volinus7]

1 minute ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Not comparable at all, everyone benefits from getting rid of the double tax on sculptures.

Well I haven't paid any cost so I get more benefits than those who paid? What about those wasted credits?

Doesn't hema cost reduction also benefit everyone if the statement above is not the case?

[ChuckMaverick]

3 minutes ago, Volinus7 said:

Well I haven't paid any cost so I get more benefits than those who paid? What about those wasted credits?

Doesn't hema cost reduction also benefit everyone if the statement above is not the case?

Even if you've paid the Maroo tax in the past you'll benefit from not having to pay it again in the future.

Hema costs are a one-time thing, once you've paid them you won't get any benefit from the costs being reduced in the future.

[Volinus7]

1 minute ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Even if you've paid the Maroo tax in the past you'll benefit from not having to pay it again in the future.

Hema costs are a one-time thing, once you've paid them you won't get any benefit from the costs being reduced in the future.

Wasted credits are still wasted credits.

[ChuckMaverick]

Just now, Volinus7 said:

Wasted credits are still wasted credits.

So in order to feel 'honoured' you want to carry on wasting them in the future?

[NightmareT12]

4 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Even if you've paid the Maroo tax in the past you'll benefit from not having to pay it again in the future.

Hema costs are a one-time thing, once you've paid them you won't get any benefit from the costs being reduced in the future.

Unless they, you know, returned the extra ones via script to the Clan Vaults.

[Volinus7]

2 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

So in order to feel 'honoured' you want to carry on wasting them in the future?

In order to feel "honored" everyone has to experience the same hema cost likewise.

[Naskoni]

21 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

Not comparable at all, everyone benefits from getting rid of the double tax on sculptures.

BS. How is that not the same thing - people paid tons of credits to convert statues to endo. Everyone doing so in the future won't have to pay anything at all to do the same exact thing. Where is the honour to those that did so already? It's the exact same issue.

And EVERYONE in the future will benefit from increased mutagen samples droprate and decreased research costs. Not to mention the 98% of all people that haven't researched the Hema yet.

Seems you are quite desperately trying to defend the status quo, given how ridiculous your arguments get.

[Volinus7]

The truth is "there's no honor™ in the first place".

[ChuckMaverick]

13 minutes ago, Naskoni said:

Seems you are quite desperately trying to defend the status quo, given how ridiculous your arguments get.

Yeeeah. Read some of my posts in the various Hema threads to see just how much I'm trying to defend it.

Just because I oppose the extreme Hema costs, doesn't mean I have to agree with every BS argument that's thrown up to attack them.

[Ciaus]

Still no change even mentioned in the latest update notes. Currently the question about costs on the front page has more rep than the patchnotes themselves. 
A lot of people don't want to start grinding until they at least KNOW what's up. As is it's a case of "maybe it'll change".

I wonder how changes might time out with the console release.

[Naskoni]

2 hours ago, Ciaus said:

Still no change even mentioned in the latest update notes. Currently the question about costs on the front page has more rep than the patchnotes themselves. 
A lot of people don't want to start grinding until they at least KNOW what's up. As is it's a case of "maybe it'll change".

I wonder how changes might time out with the console release.

I think the current status is "Steve is thinking about thinking about the mutagen samples".

[plexus_brachialis]

2 hours ago, Ciaus said:

Still no change even mentioned in the latest update notes. Currently the question about costs on the front page has more rep than the patchnotes themselves. 
A lot of people don't want to start grinding until they at least KNOW what's up. As is it's a case of "maybe it'll change".

I wonder how changes might time out with the console release.

perhaps they are hoping we will forget about it. i really love how they are consistently squashing every loot and xp farm that crops up because they dont want us to grind and farm but play the game and yet their first response to outrage was 'grab a nekros and farm, get some boosters too, you'll get it in no time'

they could've solved it in few easy ways already, from increasing the drop chance, the drop rate, reducing the cost, or making it rain in other places - dark sectors for example, it would've made perfect sense. im sick of broken clunky derelict tileset and same 2 missions over and over again. i dont hold any hope, tho

 

[Robolaser]

Some people here have spent more time complaining than what it would have taken for them to farm the required MS.

The cost may be a bit high, yeah, you'll have to work for that weapon, sure, but can't you just deal with it? Will there be an end to that laziness pandemic?

Anyway, for those who really don't want to do it legitimately, there are tricks to alleviate the effort. Just use the search function... if it's not too exhausting.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Robolaser

[Flirk2]

8 minutes ago, Robolaser said:

Some people here have spent more time complaining than what it would have taken for them to farm the required MS.

Because for those people (myself included) getting Hema is not the goal and not the problem. Bringing back sanity to research costs is the goal. Resource stockpile devaluation is the problem.

9 minutes ago, Robolaser said:

The cost may be a bit high, yeah, you'll have to work for that weapon, sure, but can't you just deal with it? Will there be an end to that laziness pandemic?

Because, it might surprise you, but those people we are talking about play the game to have fun.... Not to work on something. Are they lazy because they don't want to farm mutagen samples 8 hours a day? If you think they are, then I find your definition of laziness... disturbing.

11 minutes ago, Robolaser said:

Anyway, for those who really don't want to do it legitimately,

Try and understand that people we are talking about want to do it legitimately. They just don't think the currently legitimate and DE endorsed way (''farm Derelict in a full squad with Nekros and boosters'') is beneficial to their mental health.

[Robolaser]

Maybe the real problem is that people want everything NAOW! They expect each new item to be acquirable day 1, week 1 at the very worst.

If you don't want to farm 8 hours a day, and i can understand that, just farm 1 hour a day 8 times. Simple.

Exemple: it took me a few weeks to get the required oxium for vauban, because i spent all of it just before the release. I didn't even really farm for it. Didn't care much, though he's one of my favorite frames, because i knew i'd be able to built him at some point anyway and there was plenty of other things to do meanwhile.

If you're lazy, be patient. If you're impatient, be diligent. If you're lazy and impatient, just play another game :p

[ChuckMaverick]

Just now, Robolaser said:

Maybe the real problem is that people want everything NAOW! They expect each new item to be acquirable day 1, week 1 at the very worst.

If you don't want to farm 8 hours a day, and i can understand that, just farm 1 hour a day 8 times. Simple.

Exemple: it took me a few weeks to get the required oxium for vauban, because i spent all of it just before the release. I didn't even really farm for it. Didn't care much, though he's one of my favorite frames, because i knew i'd be able to built him at some point anyway and there was plenty of other things to do meanwhile.

If you're lazy, be patient. If you're impatient, be diligent. If you're lazy and impatient, just play another game :p

Either you haven't read most of the posts in the various Hema threads, you're deliberately trolling, or somehow you have inexplicably managed to completely miss the point that it's not about wanting anything right now or laziness.

[NekroArts]

9 minutes ago, Robolaser said:

Maybe the real problem is that people want everything NAOW! They expect each new item to be acquirable day 1, week 1 at the very worst.

If you don't want to farm 8 hours a day, and i can understand that, just farm 1 hour a day 8 times. Simple.

Exemple: it took me a few weeks to get the required oxium for vauban, because i spent all of it just before the release. I didn't even really farm for it. Didn't care much, though he's one of my favorite frames, because i knew i'd be able to built him at some point anyway and there was plenty of other things to do meanwhile.

If you're lazy, be patient. If you're impatient, be diligent. If you're lazy and impatient, just play another game :p

Problem: crafting Vauban Prime is a solo thing, Hema research is clan based.

[KaizergidorahXi]

On 1/2/2017 at 9:08 AM, Reifnir said:

Oh, so reducing the Hema cost now is bad because DE dropped this atrocious research on us and went to party during Christmas vacation?

It invalidates the effort some clans put into grinding it?

Don't make me laugh.

They never considered that removing Vay Hek access requirements (remember the tedious Beacon farm?) "invalidates" player effort. Or that putting Archwing weapon parts in Syndicate shops was akin to throwing all the effort people committed to farming the darn things on rotation C's through the window. Or that all people who went through painful Zephyr farm way back then can be laughed at because nowadays you can farm enough Oxium for Zephyr in one short run? Or that "exclusive" Wraith/Vandal weapons became nothing more than pre-painted mastery fodder now? 

 

Come on DE, this isn't even funny.

You made a mistake that caused an uproar.

You left it there without fixing long enough to let it fester.

You don't get to say "this was all good and intentional, and we won't fix it because some people overcame this ridiculous grind we gave you".

Just NO.

Fix this mess, cut the mutagen sample cost tenfold, or make Mutagen Samples drop 50x more per pickup, but DON'T leave this mess thinking it's all right. It's not, it's a disgusting piece of grind that belongs in a Chinese/Korean f2p mobile app, not in Warframe. 

I wish I could publish this on the front page of Warframes website. If this is DE starting a trend, I'm not sure how much longer I will play this game. I have done nothing but defend DE to people through all the nerfs and negative changes and broken updates. But no way my 7 person clan is completely shafted because maybe like 6 clans banded together with people with too much free time and farmed for this. People have lives too, DE. I enjoy your game, but I don't have the luxury of spending 30 hours a week farming for a weapon I don't even want just so I can get the next infested weapon when it comes out. This is a silly, atrocious business practice at this point. If you're keeping the cost for money reasons, just come out and say that. Don't say it's because "some people already have it".

Edited January 18, 2017 by KaizergidorahXi

[Robolaser]

31 minutes ago, KaizergidorahXi said:

Just wait. DE will do something to upset you, then you'll be the one crying on the forums, asking for a reverse nerf or a change. Juuust wait.

If you can't stand to be a little upset from time to time, especialy in something as inconsequential as a video game, then maybe this explains that.

 

27 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

Problem: crafting Vauban Prime is a solo thing, Hema research is clan based.

That's a fair point. But if half of your clan members are inactive (on top of the individual issues i mentioned for the active ones) maybe it's time to do some cleaning up. If you're in a ghost clan with your friends, then again just take your time. If you're in a larger clan, then maybe recruiting dozens or even hundreds of random people wasn't a good idea after all. Just look for a better managed one.

Anyway, this is going in circles. I wish you good luck though.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Robolaser

[KaizergidorahXi]

5 minutes ago, Robolaser said:

If you can't stand to be a little upset from time to time, especialy in something as inconsequential as a video game, then maybe this explains that.

 

That's a fair point. But if half of uour clan memebers are inactive (on top of the individual issues i mentioned for the active ones) maybe it's time to do some cleaning up. If you're in a ghost clan with your friends, then again just take your time. If you're in a larger clan, then maybe recruiting dozens or even hundreds of random people wasn't a good idea after all. Just look for a better managed one.

Anyway, this is going in circles. I wish you good luck though.

This is more than a little upset. This is slowly becoming a trend for DE, to make things unattainable without days, or even weeks or months of grind. When something is designed to be farmed for a group, it should be reasonable to farm it in ANY variation in number of that group. For a ghost clan, it should be reasonable to be farmed by any number of players between 1 and 10. It is not reasonable to have the 3 active friends in my clan farm 5000 samples before the end of 2017 when we all have school and various obligations.

[Flirk2]

44 minutes ago, Robolaser said:

If you're lazy, be patient. If you're impatient, be diligent. If you're lazy and impatient, just play another game :p

Oh. So your definition of laziness really is disturbing.

Look at the charts here:

And please, stop with the laziness already. It's embarrassing to try and explain to someone that not being willing to spend 77 times more time on something new (Hema) than was spent on something just before it (Synapse) is not laziness.

Let me give you another example:

Someone went to a store that sells vacuum cleaners. He heard that there was a new one, with an interesting design.

 

Client:  How much?

Salesman: Only 77 times more than the previous model! Buy it right now and you'll get 5% discount.

C: Is it 77 times more efficient?

S: No, it's actually less powerful than the previous model, but it can play music files!

C: I have an mp3 player for that. Does it consume 77 times less energy?

S: No, but it has an interesting new mechanic that gives you a mild electric shock every 30 seconds!

C: Are you insane? It's less efficient, has a couple of useless gimmicks of questionable safety and costs 77 times more!

S: You are just lazy. Go find another store.

 

One would think the salesman like that is not going to be very successful....

But what would that person know? Success is sill with him. (We would have that cost lowered already if it was any other way, I'm sure...)

Just please, don't try to say it's because the salesman is right.

[Robolaser]

37 minutes ago, KaizergidorahXi said:

This is more than a little upset

Look, this exactly how DE and many f2p games developpers make money. They try to frustrate and upset their players as much as possible, not to the point they outright quit, but just enough for them to be tempted to give up and spend money. That's exactly the point.

Let me put the emphasis on this: the more you ask, the more they will think they can make money out of it. Because, again, obvious frustration.

If you think it's too much grind, don't do it. Don't ask endlessly. And don't spend money. Do not support or encourage this kind of practices. You won't get that weapon, but in the long run it's the best course of (in)action. Eventualy if no one seems to give a fu and no one spend money after warning them once, they will backtrack. It won't last, but that's the best you can expect in a game like this.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Robolaser

[ChuckMaverick]

1 minute ago, Robolaser said:

Look, this exactly how DE and many f2p games developpers make money. They try to frustrate and upset their players as much as possible, not to the point they outright quit, but just enough for them to be tempted to give up and spend money. That's exactly the point.

Let me put the emphasis on this: the more you ask, the more they will think they can make money out of it. Because, again, obvious frustration.

If you think it's too much grind, don't do it. Don't ask endlessly. And don't spend money. Do not support or encourage this kind of practices. You won't get that weapon, but in the long run it's the best course of (in)action. Eventualy if no one seems to give a fu and no one spend money after warning them once, they will backtrack. It won't last, but that's the best you can expect in a game like this.

That's certainly the way a lot of f2p publishers make money, but it hasn't been DE's way.

That's why a lot of us have supported Warframe so far and would like to continue giving DE our money as long as they keep "doing free-to-play right".

[Jakorak]

1 hour ago, Robolaser said:

Maybe the real problem is that people want everything NAOW! They expect each new item to be acquirable day 1, week 1 at the very worst.

If you don't want to farm 8 hours a day, and i can understand that, just farm 1 hour a day 8 times. Simple.

Exemple: it took me a few weeks to get the required oxium for vauban, because i spent all of it just before the release. I didn't even really farm for it. Didn't care much, though he's one of my favorite frames, because i knew i'd be able to built him at some point anyway and there was plenty of other things to do meanwhile.

If you're lazy, be patient. If you're impatient, be diligent. If you're lazy and impatient, just play another game :p

As someone in a super casual moon clan, with 400k mutagen to go after the initial resource dump from the whole clan, earning about 100 mutagen a day when i go to do some focus farming, this research won't be done by the time i've completed all 5 focus schools