A few suggestions for the next Archwing update

[Telogor]

1. Keep the full 6 DoF flight model.  It works fairly well except for a couple things.

2. Remove the input lag from flight.  Right now, there's a delay between the time you move your mouse and the time your flight direction changes, which is the main issue with trying to fly through the Corpus Ship.

3. Let us land and run around on asteroids, space junk, etc.

[Myscho]

4. wider FoV ( that also can be aplied for non AW), camera is too close to AW

[Sintag]

1. Give us a self-righting button (HINT: Reload isn't used in Archwing) or at least some way to not nauseate ourselves while flying.

2. It's less 'input lag' and more 'momentum'.  Nevertheless, having a bit more control over it would feel better.

3.  That'd take a lot of work and just holy crap.  I'm sorry but have you ever simulated the sort of gravity?  Plus this is without cosndiering that the 'Frame needs oxygen to survive (Survival proves this), and we can't exactly run around in zero gravity.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

I concur with all.

Additional items:

- Enable full speed drop vacuum and increase its range. Currently you have to slow down or will miss the items. With the vastness of the archwing levels and how they control, the default range and power is currently not sufficient.

- increase ammo (mag and reserves) capacity on nearly all projectile weapons.

- would be cool if afterburners worked in reverse (so you could backup/shoot much faster)

- Archwing R2D2's via Sentinel attachment.

[RobWasHere]

Make enemies fly in 6 DoF too

Rework corpus ship tile (for example making it wider) since its not comfortable to fly with current controls.

More enemies, mission etc.

Sharkwing only gamemode on Uranus?

[(XBOX)Madness103]

Have Archwing weapons craftable by normal means instead of taking weapon bits from syndicates that nobody trades. I don't see why these weapons are crafted like prime weapons but used for only like 3% of the whole game.

[Telogor]

On 2/19/2017 at 3:40 PM, Sintag said:

3.  That'd take a lot of work and just holy crap.  I'm sorry but have you ever simulated the sort of gravity?  Plus this is without cosndiering that the 'Frame needs oxygen to survive (Survival proves this), and we can't exactly run around in zero gravity.

I meant run around while still wearing the Archwing.  It would provide the life support and downforce for us to walk.

[SDGDen]

On 19-2-2017 at 9:40 PM, Sintag said:

1. Give us a self-righting button (HINT: Reload isn't used in Archwing) or at least some way to not nauseate ourselves while flying.

 

pssst... roll buttons exist...

 

sadly they are broken and only work when sprint is disabled, even when you have toggle sprint on and are standing completely still

 

btw in regards to the rest of this thread.. as someone who does A LOT of archwing and a lot of flight sim stuff in general. id have to say ALL THE YES!

Edited February 23, 2017 by SupremeDutchGamer

[Sintag]

59 minutes ago, SupremeDutchGamer said:

pssst... roll buttons exist...

 

sadly they are broken and only work when sprint is disabled, even when you have toggle sprint on and are standing completely still

 

btw in regards to the rest of this thread.. as someone who does A LOT of archwing and a lot of flight sim stuff in general. id have to say ALL THE YES!

But where in any form of controls is it made obvious rolling will right us?  It's like Limbo's Banish except one also gives you Energy as long as you're affected by it.  We need a more obvious self-righting mechanism, something that quickly returns us to where 'down' is.

 

Really, Archwing's new movement style is in dire need of a tutorial.

[SDGDen]

9 minutes ago, Sintag said:

But where in any form of controls is it made obvious rolling will right us?  It's like Limbo's Banish except one also gives you Energy as long as you're affected by it.  We need a more obvious self-righting mechanism, something that quickly returns us to where 'down' is.

 

Really, Archwing's new movement style is in dire need of a tutorial.

you dont know what i mean by roll right? i dont mean roll as in the roll/dodge button. but litteraly pitch, roll and yaw. if you where to add an X, Y and Z line to your archwing, X being left to right, y being up/down, and Z being forward and back. pitch would rotate along the X axis, yaw would rotate along the Y axis and roll would rotate allong the Z axis.

 

although i do agree of needing a tutorial. and its own completely seperate keybind menu. its surprising how many people dont know that roll buttons exist and because they wont work when bound to something a warframe can do you have to have 2 special keys JUST for archwing ( i have z and c for them)

[Sintag]

Just now, SupremeDutchGamer said:

you dont know what i mean by roll right? i dont mean roll as in the roll/dodge button. but litteraly pitch, roll and yaw. if you where to add an X, Y and Z line to your archwing, X being left to right, y being up/down, and Z being forward and back. pitch would rotate along the X axis, yaw would rotate along the Y axis and roll would rotate allong the Z axis.

 

-Snippy snip-

Annnnnnd this is why Archwing sorely needs a tutorial.  Because if someone can confuse terms that easily, then we're in sore need of a tutorial.

 

Or, honestly, a reversion to the old control scheme.

 

That'd be nice.

[Culaio]

I want to say some things related to stuff people mentioned in the thread:

-momentum we have currently in game isnt bad by itself, there is a lot of great space combat sims that have momentum like this, problem is that archwing titlesets werent made with momentum like that in mind, corridors are too tight and there is too many sticking out parts.

-I think that returning to old movement system would be a bad thing, there is a reason why so many people asked for 6DoF(every week new thread showed up on forums asking for it), reason why we asked for it is related to combat gameplay, long range combat in archwing always felt too static, and both long range and close combat werent really engaging, you either float in space barely moving while shooting enemies moving toward you or different target or you mash melee button until everything around you is dead.

So reason why we wanted 6DoF is because its needed for space dogfights and while we dont have yet space dogfights, pursuit mission shows that DE can create enemie that move around while shooting us.

 

DE also should focus on giving players reason to play archwing since  currently  rewards in archwing are very self contained which means those reward dont affect you at all in rest of game so people who play only ground missions have no reason to try archwing, people will probably hate me for saying this but there needs to be a reason to play archwing, some kind of unique rewards or something at which archwing is better, for example: some of unique resources being easier to get in archwing then in ground missions(of course it would have to compete with meta farming since DE seems to want us to farm stuff with meta and people will always choose meta farming if it makes farming faster, so some resources would have to drop as frequently as farming with meta method), another possibility would some tiers or individual types of relics droping more frequently in archwing missions then in ground missions.

When I said unique I meant rewards/loot that drops only in archwing missions but I dont mean mods/stances for frames/ground weapons since it would be stupid and would actually make people hate archwing mode more, what I mean by unique to archwing rewards is stuff like:

-unique ayatans

-unique ayatan stars that make ayatans animation even cooler

-unique collectibles: space rocks, planet models, space ship models and so on(unique stuff to decorate our ship)

-unique lore hidden in archwing missions(like ground missions have cephalon fragments and kuria)

-unique space event that shows up from time to time, kinda like that message that shows up from time to time when loading mission but instead of message something shows up, something like unknown space ship(either sentient or of some unknown origin) arriving  on the map(it could only happen on open archwing maps), Elite: Dangerous has one of most EPIC rare space encounters:

I cant even imagine how community would react if we had chance for unique EPIC space encounter in archwing with sentient space ship(worm ship maybe? since lore mentions sentient worm ships) or even better with space ship that doesnt fit with even of current factions hinting at possibility of another faction showing up in the future(all current factions are related to humans/oroking one way or another: corpus are descendants of orokin as is hinted in lore, grineer were originally servant-clones of orokin(not orokin clones but were engineered and cloned by them), sentients were originally oroking terraforming tools sent to another solar system who were given ability to adapt, who evolved and came back and tenno are orokin children who were changed by void, so currently there is no alien races in warframe so hint at possibility of encountering unknown species in warframe would make community very excited. 

Or instead of encountering uknown space ship we could encounter some kind of void-based space anomaly, hinting at possibility of there being something more to void, even orokin didnt seem to know much about it and there are some hints(but unconfirmed)  that there is possibility that there is some kind of sentience in void.

 

I know people will hate me for saying that archwing needs unique rewards since people dont want to be 'forced' to play archwing but truth is that warframe game always 'forced' you to do some stuff, like for example sorites droping unique  rewards(riven mods, focus lenses, unique ayatan statue)  'forcing' you to do sorite to get those rewards whats more sorite frequently force you to do mission types you may not like(everyone has mission types they dont like) but sorite make people come out of their comfort zones to try something new which is good..

Of course before we are 'forced' to play archwing DE needs first  to fix its problems since everyone agrees that people shouldnt suffering motion sickness while playing it.

 

[SkeinsOfFitzsimmons]

Just bringing back the previous archwing controls, would fix most of the concerns/problems. Players wanted more archwings,weapons, mods, etc, and DE gifted us with motion sickness and more reasons to NOT play archwing mode.

Currently, the mechanics are preventing me in fully opening planets and completing missions. Just five minutes before logging on and posting here, I was in the bathroom vomiting due to an archwing mission I was trying to complete. I never had motion sickness, until the rail update. This is unacceptable, and deplorable. 

1. What is with the auto, slow rolling? According to Microgravity, a person would need to constantly kick their legs in order to create the motion to turn their body. Since Tenno have an archwing, controlled bursts would stabilize us. This is just a poor, and unneeded mechanic.

2. Our current speed, compared to the perivous archwing build, is between the tortoise and the hare. How are we to complete the Corpus rush, if our burst run is just 1 mph faster than our current speed? 

3. Our vacuum radius needs to be improved. We can't pick up anything, unless we fly right through it.

4. I love you DE, so why do you troll me so? Pulse mines within a tube-like corridor, just big enough for my archwing, yet I get stuck/clip through the metal structures. If the corridors were clean, with pulse mines littering the open spaces, I would have finished the Corpus rush mission a month ago. 

Don't get me wrong, as I enjoy challenges. But, the rush missions are just overdone.

5. Why does the Lotus, have to be so condescending? I adore DERebecca, but I want to punch the Lotus in the face until she stops talking. Honestly, every time her face appears my neck hair stands up.

 

Edited February 24, 2017 by SkeinsOfFitzsimmons
typos

[SDGDen]

On 23-2-2017 at 5:49 AM, Sintag said:

 

 

Or, honestly, a reversion to the old control scheme.

 

That'd be nice.

you're dead to me.....

[Sintag]

On 2/23/2017 at 9:24 AM, Culaio said:

I want to say some things related to stuff people mentioned in the thread:

-momentum we have currently in game isnt bad by itself, there is a lot of great space combat sims that have momentum like this, problem is that archwing titlesets werent made with momentum like that in mind, corridors are too tight and there is too many sticking out parts.

-I think that returning to old movement system would be a bad thing, there is a reason why so many people asked for 6DoF(every week new thread showed up on forums asking for it), reason why we asked for it is related to combat gameplay, long range combat in archwing always felt too static, and both long range and close combat werent really engaging, you either float in space barely moving while shooting enemies moving toward you or different target or you mash melee button until everything around you is dead.

So reason why we wanted 6DoF is because its needed for space dogfights and while we dont have yet space dogfights, pursuit mission shows that DE can create enemie that move around while shooting us.

 

DE also should focus on giving players reason to play archwing since  currently  rewards in archwing are very self contained which means those reward dont affect you at all in rest of game so people who play only ground missions have no reason to try archwing, people will probably hate me for saying this but there needs to be a reason to play archwing, some kind of unique rewards or something at which archwing is better, for example: some of unique resources being easier to get in archwing then in ground missions(of course it would have to compete with meta farming since DE seems to want us to farm stuff with meta and people will always choose meta farming if it makes farming faster, so some resources would have to drop as frequently as farming with meta method), another possibility would some tiers or individual types of relics droping more frequently in archwing missions then in ground missions.

When I said unique I meant rewards/loot that drops only in archwing missions but I dont mean mods/stances for frames/ground weapons since it would be stupid and would actually make people hate archwing mode more, what I mean by unique to archwing rewards is stuff like:

-unique ayatans

-unique ayatan stars that make ayatans animation even cooler

-unique collectibles: space rocks, planet models, space ship models and so on(unique stuff to decorate our ship)

-unique lore hidden in archwing missions(like ground missions have cephalon fragments and kuria)

-unique space event that shows up from time to time, kinda like that message that shows up from time to time when loading mission but instead of message something shows up, something like unknown space ship(either sentient or of some unknown origin) arriving  on the map(it could only happen on open archwing maps), Elite: Dangerous has one of most EPIC rare space encounters:

I cant even imagine how community would react if we had chance for unique EPIC space encounter in archwing with sentient space ship(worm ship maybe? since lore mentions sentient worm ships) or even better with space ship that doesnt fit with even of current factions hinting at possibility of another faction showing up in the future(all current factions are related to humans/oroking one way or another: corpus are descendants of orokin as is hinted in lore, grineer were originally servant-clones of orokin(not orokin clones but were engineered and cloned by them), sentients were originally oroking terraforming tools sent to another solar system who were given ability to adapt, who evolved and came back and tenno are orokin children who were changed by void, so currently there is no alien races in warframe so hint at possibility of encountering unknown species in warframe would make community very excited. 

Or instead of encountering uknown space ship we could encounter some kind of void-based space anomaly, hinting at possibility of there being something more to void, even orokin didnt seem to know much about it and there are some hints(but unconfirmed)  that there is possibility that there is some kind of sentience in void.

 

I know people will hate me for saying that archwing needs unique rewards since people dont want to be 'forced' to play archwing but truth is that warframe game always 'forced' you to do some stuff, like for example sorites droping unique  rewards(riven mods, focus lenses, unique ayatan statue)  'forcing' you to do sorite to get those rewards whats more sorite frequently force you to do mission types you may not like(everyone has mission types they dont like) but sorite make people come out of their comfort zones to try something new which is good..

Of course before we are 'forced' to play archwing DE needs first  to fix its problems since everyone agrees that people shouldnt suffering motion sickness while playing it.

 

If we had incentive to play, and the controls weren't godawful, we'd play.

 

But we don't, and they are.  This solves the incentive thing though c:

[yles9056]

On 2017/2/20 at 4:31 AM, Telogor said:

1. Keep the full 6 DoF flight model.  It works fairly well except for a couple things.

6 DoF is fine in free space, but horrible and unnecessary in Corpus ships. We need different control scheme for different area.

Edited February 26, 2017 by yles9056

[SDGDen]

25 minutes ago, yles9056 said:

6 DoF is fine in free space, but horrible and unnecessary in Corpus ships. We need different control scheme for different area.

the problem isnt the area itsself but that the whole corpus ship tileset is designed with an up/down. if they designed it for 6 DoF it would be way more suitable. they basically need to either remove it or completely redesign it for the new system.

[yles9056]

15 minutes ago, SupremeDutchGamer said:

the problem isnt the area itsself but that the whole corpus ship tileset is designed with an up/down.

The design is a problem, I agree. But I still don't think we should have 6 DoF while inside structure. Even if there is no up and down, as long as players are inside a structure, they will look for a direct and consider it up/down unconsciously. It causes confusion easily.

[Brandr_]

After seeing this thread i feel the only solution to archwing is a total revamp, and reintegration into the actual game.

[Culaio]

1 hour ago, yles9056 said:

6 DoF is fine in free space, but horrible and unnecessary in Corpus ships. We need different control scheme for different area.

I must strongly disagree with it, its horrible idea that would create more problems instead of fixing them, it would be like having old parkour on some maps while new parkour on others, it would make make movement more confusing and would prevent people from getting good  at using movement.

Having different movement for different tileset is bad design choice, its tilesets that should be build around the movement. I agree that playing corpus archwing maps with new movement is bad but its the map that need to change, not movement(well they do need to fix momentum of archwing movement)

13 hours ago, Sintag said:

If we had incentive to play, and the controls weren't godawful, we'd play.

 

But we don't, and they are.  This solves the incentive thing though c:

I have even more ideas how to make archwing unique and attract players to it.

-making each faction unique to fight against, like for example making infested archwing enemies much more scary(warframe lore makes infested look like something really scary and VERY dangerous to fight againt but in game they are a joke...),  something like "cosmic horrors"(lovecraft style eldritch abomination), here is idea how to make infested archwing enemies unique to fight against: 

Archwing infested enemies could have two main parts external "shell" and "core" in the middle, you could only destroy enemy by destroying its core but to reach core you would need to break throught shell which is made from multiple parts, so you can only attack core from side where you broken shell  but even if you break the shell if you take too long to destroy the core shell will regenerate after a while

This idea is kinda based on "gauna" from knights of sidonia manga/anime, its not really well know manga but it has pretty interesting story and very interesting enemies(Gauna) an alien lifeform whose consist of two primary materials: A Gauna's Placenta, or exterior covering, and its True Body(core). The Placenta appears to be highly malleable, able to move at speed, extend significant distances, morph into different forms, and be used for a variety of purposes. Even if True Body(core) is stripped entirely of exterior covering it will regenerate with time as long as core intact, only way to destroy Gauna is to destroy with weapon made from special material.

I know this idea sounds complicated but I believe its possible especially since DE already is kinda moving in this directions with some enemies, like for example Ogma has weak spot on the front covered by a large armored plat that can be shot off, Ambulas Revamp having  thick armour plating that players will have to destroy in pieces and Eximus Unit rework having  weakpoints that need to be destroyed to kill enemy(I hate this rework idea by the way...).

Every faction should be different to fight against in archwing game mode.

 

-another idea to make archwing game unique, new weapon class, ground gameplay has melee, primary and secondary weapons but compared to that archwing has only two, melee and primary, I believe it needs to have its own secondary type of weapons but very different from  "side arm" secondary ground gameplay has, instead I think it should go in oposite direction instead of secondary being smaller then primary it should be bigger, here is idea I had long time ago(which was based on someone else idea):

Archwing "secondary" weapon - heavy weapons/special combat systems(based on 'TaylorsContraction' idea: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/471324-idea-3rd-archwing-weapon-heavy-weapons/)

Idea inspired by mecha anime/games where mecha has attached shoulder/back mounted cannon's or missiles pods that can be used for example to deal massive amount of damage to targets in front of you(cannon's) or all targets around you(missile pods). Those weapons would be very powerful but in return would take a long time to "recharge" which would prevent players from spaming it.

Also In heavy weapon slot could fit any weapon that is too big or too complex to fit in normally under archwing, Some of those weapon systems dont even have to be attached to Tenno/Archwing, for example it also could be some drones floating around us that we could activate when "firing" heavy weapon.

 

current heavy weapon ideas:

  Hide contents

Shoulder mounted cannon/s

Missile pods

Combat drones

Floating or Summonable Wave Motion Gun(tenno can dematerialize capture targets so they should be able to materialize weapon from void or something)

 

[yles9056]

1 hour ago, Culaio said:

I must strongly disagree with it, its horrible idea that would create more problems instead of fixing them, it would be like having old parkour on some maps while new parkour on others

 

But what about underwater archwing missions? It's archwing game mode but uses slightly different control scheme and it works just fine.

Players cannot roll in water, but everything else is pretty much the same.

[Culaio]

25 minutes ago, yles9056 said:

But what about underwater archwing missions? It's archwing game mode but uses slightly different control scheme and it works just fine.

Players cannot roll in water, but everything else is pretty much the same.

Well truth is that I HATE underwater archwing missions, thankfuly they are rarely more then small part of whole mission, if it was full underwater mission I wouldnt play it since it feels so damn slow compared to space archwing missions, you cant even use afterburner.

To me underwater archwing is archwing at its worse... because warframe is game focused on mobility and there is pretty much no mobility there, including combat is so damn slow.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Culaio

[yles9056]

27 minutes ago, Culaio said:

it feels so damn slow compared to space archwing missions, you cant even use afterburner.

Not everything has to be exactly the same. Just change the speed and enable afterburner in space. There is always room for adjustments.

[Culaio]

1 hour ago, yles9056 said:

Not everything has to be exactly the same. Just change the speed and enable afterburner in space. There is always room for adjustments.

You may not know it but a LOT of people on the forums, including me 'fought" for DE to change movement 6DoF, of course 6DoF wasnt our goal, it was just stepping stone needed for something we wished for: space dogfights with enemies, we cant have it in old movement since limit of axis rotation would always screw us over during combat when enemy flies above or below us. its something only possible in new movement. I know that even now in new movement we dont have space dogfights but we are one step closer to it and pursuit archwing mission gives us hope that pursuit combat could happen if DE put effort to make it happen.

I was always person who liked archwing and seen that it had huge potential but even I agreed that combat got quickly boring if you play few archwing missions in a row, since it was either mashing melee button or floating in space barely moving while killing everything around you, it was simply too static combat.

[yles9056]

1 hour ago, Culaio said:

You may not know it but a LOT of people on the forums, including me 'fought" for DE to change movement 6DoF, of course 6DoF wasnt our goal, it was just stepping stone needed for something we wished for: space dogfights with enemies

If it's all for space dogfights, then I agree that Corpus ship map neeb redesign. Because there's not enough room for dogfights in current Corpus ship map.