Concerning the need for Nekros in Survival

[W3zeer]

I really wish I would be able to make more use of the choices I have which warframe I want to take. Unfortunatly, when it comes to survival, bringing a Nekros is absolutly necessary, so especially when playing solo you choice is limited to 1, if you plan to go on a longer run. I'm well aware that pretty much every mission has its "best-frame" that does the job better than most (or all) others, but usually you can make up for that with enough skill. Survival leaves you at the mercy of bad RNG, you can kill entire legions without life-support drops and you will have to exit the mission. Having to move between support towers messes up spawning and reduce drops even more so once it got to that you're done anyways. While the life-support system is necessary to prevent camping, I think could be a bit more forgiving. Being forced out by ever stronger enemies is more fun than being choked by bad RNG (at least for me ;) ). Nekros is atm the only frame that can help with the drop rate of life-support (as Hydroid has to big survivability issues and Atlas can't play when using his 3) and thus is absolutly needed. That is especially true if you play solo, as low spawns make the problem so bad that other frames usually already get problems at the 20 minute mark even when killing everything in sight. What I would hope for would be increase the drop chances for life support dramatically, but remove the ability from Nekros (and the other frames) to make even more appear (which would also help the new Nekros, as  rolling life-support ruins your chance of getting a "real" drop I think, but not sure about that :D). I would love to try my skills with other frames to go to high levels but usually I'm ending up without life-support far before the enemies can actually really hurt me. I hope my suggestion could give us more choices and remove the need for a single specific frame to really play this mission-type.

[Xion]

Not to sound overly condescending, but it's perfectly possible to go 1hr in a solo survival without Nekros. You'll just need a good room to camp that has multiple enemy spawn points around it as well as 2-3 LS Towers within the room. Of course, you'll need to be able to kill enemies just as fast as they're able to spawn for life support drops.

[ashrah]

for solo u can use any frame.. i played suv solo in void over 2h... and i have  left about 7-8 pods...cz  enemy are become pretty strong

[Reidmaster]

Ever since they made the survival changes a while ago I have never needed a Nekros for survival, granted I don't usually play solo though.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Reidmaster

[Husla]

9 minutes ago, Xionyde134 said:

Not to sound overly condescending, but it's perfectly possible to go 1hr in a solo survival without Nekros. You'll just need a good room to camp that has multiple enemy spawn points around it as well as 2-3 LS Towers within the room. Of course, you'll need to be able to kill enemies just as fast as they're able to spawn for life support drops.

Solo survival you need to move around, you can't just camp in one area. Enemies won't spawn.

To OP, what reason is there to go to high rounds anymore?

[Dahx11]

You really don't need Nekros tho. :/

[(PSN)Feox_PH]

As long as you are killing enemies fast for the life support drops, long solo survival missions can be done using any frame. Some of my favorites are:

1. Ash and Loki's stealth provide 8x stealth melee damage. Along with the melee combo counter multiplier, your damage scales with the enemy levels.

2. Inaros desicate blinds enemies and also benefits from the 8x "stealth" melee damage.

3. Excalibur's blind and exalted blade can be used in a similar way

4. Using Naramon Shadow Step on any warframe makes this even easier... this is my favorite method of farming warframe XP and focus points.

I find hunting enemies for kills and drops rather than camping is the best way to sustain life support.  That's why I love using Enemy Sense/Enemy Radar to easily locate the enemies I need to kill to maintain melee combo multiplier.  Sometimes you think there are no enemies spawning, it is just that they got stuck in one of the other rooms (AI problems).

Edited March 16, 2017 by (PS4)Feox_PH

[W3zeer]

oookay, should have made that clear. It's not that I never went beyond 60 mins with other frames, I just feel that it's more work to keep your life support going than it should be. And it's infuriating when you prepare for a longer stay and then have to leave just because your dice fell bad too often, not because you're doing something wrong and don't kill enough. I always viewed life support only as a means to prevent you from camping in a safe location not the main source of difficulty, which can be remedied by Nekros. I don't have a huge change in mind, just bringing the support up to Nekros levels which can hardly be called op as it then would be op already.

15 minutes ago, Husla said:

To OP, what reason is there to go to high rounds anymore?

Well, this game does not have that much content, and with the weapons we got you don't get a challenge out of sortie level enemies. And for that

 

15 minutes ago, (PS4)Feox_PH said:

4. Using Naramon Shadow Step on any warframe makes this even easier

is not really what I had in mind, invisibility is the equivalent of an "I-win" button as the enemy stops acting :). What I'd like even more would be a mission that already starts on a high level, so I don't have to wait an hour before getting to the point I'd like to reach but I don't see that happening (outside events at least :) ). Maybe I'm getting lazy, but I find myself hating running behind life-support stuff :D

[(PSN)CelasVictor]

Inaros.
You can basically ignore any requirements of life support by just going on with your life.
And generally ignoring everything that's not the combo multiplier.
Add shadow step and it's just melee until things begin to one shot you.
If they ever can see you.

Not that there's any reason to solo when groups give more of everything in less time.
At which point, well, you wanted to solo in a cooperative game. There's going to be limitations imposed on you.
And then the whole thing becomes a "Mom I can't breathe underwater cus it kills me make it stop" discussion.

[(PSN)Feox_PH]

28 minutes ago, W3zeer said:

is not really what I had in mind, invisibility is the equivalent of an "I-win" button as the enemy stops acting :).

It is not really the invisibility I was after but the damage boost that comes along with it.  Primary and Secondary weapons does not scale well with high-level enemies.  Even with Riven mods, your damage will eventually fall-off.  Melee, on the other hand, scale well with enemy level as long as you keep the combo counter up and even better with the 8x stealth boost.  It is just one of the strategies we can use to keep on killing for the life support drops.

Edited March 16, 2017 by (PS4)Feox_PH

[(PSN)Feox_PH]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)CelasVictor said:

Not that there's any reason to solo when groups give more of everything in less time.

When farming for XP (especially warframe XP) or focus points, unless you coordinate with the squad to stay together for shared XP kills, sometimes it may be best to do this solo.

Why farm XP or focus on survival missions? I find it way more efficient than defense missions... the enemies just keep on coming. No waiting time in between.

Edited March 16, 2017 by (PS4)Feox_PH

[CherryPauper]

> Unfortunatly, when it comes to survival, bringing a Nekros is absolutly necessary, so especially when playing solo you choice is limited to 1

FALSE. You obviously haven't played Ivara with Rakta Cernos or literally ANY frame with Naramon. Even then, Valkyr with Rage is a good option as well if you don't want to go invis. Max range/efficency Frost is also a great option.  All of those options are better than Nekros imo. And for the record, I solo sortie and Void survivals very comfortable and my Nekros usage is less then 1%. I've never had the need to use that frame outside of farming.

Edited March 16, 2017 by CherryPauper

[W3zeer]

4 minutes ago, CherryPauper said:

FALSE. You obviously haven't played Ivara with Rakta Cernos or literally ANY frame with Naramon. Even then, Valkyr with Rage is a good option as well if you don't want to go invis. All of those options are better than Nekros imo. And for the record, I solo sortie and Void survivals very comfortable and my Nekros usage is less then 1%. I've never had the need to use that frame outside of farming.

 If you had read my entire post you would realize that you answered to something I was not talking about. Sortie survivals are no real survival missions as they are only 10 minutes. Being able to solo sorties is not really a point to claim skill as they are incredibly easy to solo, usually I'm taking freshly formaed stuff to level it up there, takes more time but at least gives me something to do there. Ofc it is possible to stay hours in survival with other frames, there is video proof of that and I did it myself, not my point. But there is simply no denying the fact that one single frame completly reduces this arbitrary second difficulty wall that does not need to be there in the first place. And well, naramon makes the game just so damn boring. It's strange to argue from an elitists point of view with something that completly removes the need for skill at all. One of the most boring things I ever did was one and a half hour doing nothing but slide-atteraxing the crap out of a mission without ever being shot at once, sorry but it's not secret that that is the most efficient way to do it. To bad that most efficient mostly equals boring in this game, because dispatching everything with one move completly removes the gameplay element which is one of the few things warframe really has going for itself. But that's another topic that stretches too much into balancing.

[tsoa]

to me it comes down to this:

With Nekros you're forced to exit a mission because enemies become too difficult to kill with your weapons.

Without Nekros you're forced to exit because you run out of life support even though you can still kill easily everything in sight (using Animal Instinct + Enemy Sense for locating them).

 

It would be really nice to be able to do long (fissure) runs with other frames. Eliminating life support as drops from warframes' powers but also increasing the overall dropchance would be a good solution imho. Another would be to tie the dropchance to the number of squad mates to compensate for fewer enemy spawns.

Edited March 16, 2017 by tsoa
typo

[EinheriarJudith]

squad survival and solo survival are 2 different things soley because of spawn rate. a few of us have asked for a way to increase spawn solo. increasing the spawn may also make it tougher ( a plus imo) and less boring because the ramp up takes way too long. but the issue doesnt only reside around spawn rate but how they follow one person in the squad and the spawn locations. i have had it happen to me in a full squad before when standing in a room that was empty because they were following another teammate. they should attack everyone aggressively not just chose one person and mindlessly zerg. its like they use the same mentality for interception (meaning they aggressively attack the first point to get turned blue and ignore the rest when they should be trying to take over them all as they become active).

Edited March 17, 2017 by EinheriarJudith