Fixing the Trading system is an easy and meaningful update

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

14 minutes ago, Momaw said:

In my experience this isn't a problem for most people. If you want something and offer a reasonable amount of platinum for it, people will offer it to you. Usually when I talk to people that are frustrated they "can't" buy something they want, it's because they decided in advance how much they want to pay for it rather looking to see how much the market is charging for it.

In my experience no one is actually buying or selling. They are offering and want you to guess what they want for a particular item. It should not be a debate wether or not I want to spend my whole time "trading" (I use that term loosely) or playing the game as often this is this case. Not to mention the ticker is ridiculous and flooded and just all around to much.

Edited April 2, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[[DE]Momaw]

7 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

In my experience no one is actually buying or selling. They are offering and want you to guess what they want for a particular item

And? Do you make a realistic offer? Don't stop in the middle of the story

[(PSN)shadowraith_666]

of the f2p games on console that allow trading of some sort, WF is the only one that does not have some sort of AH or exchange, the AD auction house in neverwinter and the exchange in star trek online is a breeze to use for buying and selling stuff, WF's trade chat however is a chaotic outdated mess.

[[DE]Momaw]

1 minute ago, (PS4)shadowwraith_666 said:

the exchange in star trek online is a breeze to use for buying and selling stuff

a.) STO's exchange is based on grindable credits which are effectively distilled play time. Dilithium is a different system.

b.) Large amount of "consumable" items in the form of crafting materials

c.) The most valuable trade things come out of lockboxes and maintain their trade value because they they have a real cash value to make them

[TheChaotic1]

Think an offline auction is a bad idea, but somewhere to post offers that can be searched would be great

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 hours ago, Momaw said:

And? Do you make a realistic offer? Don't stop in the middle of the story

No that's it. Ok it goes like this.....

Sellers says: WTS x

Buyer says : Hm for x?

Seller says: offer for x

Buyer: offers x plat for x item

Seller says : nty

Buyer re-offers....

Then nothing.......

That's it!

This happens 99.9% of the time. And is ridiculous.

In the meantime you've missed out on many trades. 

No one is actually selling like I said. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

2 hours ago, Momaw said:

Do you make a realistic offer

How do u know what a reasonable offer is if it's an open market and prices are subjective. 

*I want the ability to go to trade chat and search for the item I want to buy and buy it. That's it. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by (XB1)FCastle74

[(PSN)shadowraith_666]

2 hours ago, Momaw said:

a.) STO's exchange is based on grindable credits which are effectively distilled play time. Dilithium is a different system.

b.) Large amount of "consumable" items in the form of crafting materials

c.) The most valuable trade things come out of lockboxes and maintain their trade value because they they have a real cash value to make them

a) warframe still uses credit as part of the trade, dilithium/astral diamonds can be exchanged for ZEN

b) same could be said about relics and keys

c) wrong, the most valuable stuff comes from R&D, lockbox keys can be bought for credits or by grinding Dilithium and converting it to zen. 125 zen per key does not take long to grind.

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

there are still ways to limit the system to avoid abuse like limiting the sale item a player can post/buy per day based on mr also limit the sales per day based on mr.

for example if an mr 2 frame buys an item he can post x items but if one gets sold his items will invisible in the ah for the day since he got 2 trades in a day 

this will prevent frames from buying and selling for higher price also limit the number of items a player can put up in the ah.

how about sets? we should be able to sell sets as a single bundle in the ah. or each post in the ah has 5 slots no stacking.

tax credits should still exist ingame the item poster should pay it upfront when posting the item.

also put a limit on how long an item is in the ah and if it is not sold you pay half or so of the tax credits ingame with the failed transactions. make it short like 24hrs to 72hrs depending on tax amount hell we can even improve the credit sinks by making the tax bigger based how long you want the item stay up in the ah. example 3m credits for prime mod for 3days . when the duration of the post is up only half of the paid tax will be returned. so in the example if you overprice the mod and nobody buys then it is 1.5m and no credit refunded if the item is sold.

buyers should also pay the 1m tax so if the owner buys his own stuff he actually lost 4.5m credits 

cancelling the item on ah will not refund any credit.

seriously guys just saying ah will ruin the game economy without thinking of a solution is just sad.

the numbers i give are just examples and can be tweaked for balance. my point is by using credits and trading reatrictions we can prevent the economy from messing up. even for player that have tons of credits will see his funds go down if he is abusing the ah system.

manual trading should still be ingame and trade chat will still exist for the transition until decided.

let me know if i miss something.

i would like to add that if adding blueprints to the set you cannot put mixed blueprint/parts to prevent misdirection. example by placing a banshee prime bp you can only add banshee prime parts bp no repeating. the system will automatically name it as banshee prime set if all parts are complete with a green layout, non complete set is orange and mods and other items can be blue.

Edited April 2, 2017 by (PS4)wildcats1369my
set misdirection fix

[Heckzu]

Here's something most people don't seem to understand.

Games that have an automated trading system were either created to have it at the start, or experienced an economic crash on its implementation.

Warframe didn't even have trading in the beginning. Thus, you can't say an auction house / broker system will work in Warframe because it worked in some other game you've played because that other game probably had it from the start, before it had a running economy. And if that other game did implement trading after its inception, chances are it experienced a large scale deflation. In Warframe, massive deflation would hinder the ability for free to play players to progress.

There are also other games that don't use an automated trading system and have stable economies. Maplestory used a bazaar type system and was quite popular back in the day. Mabinogi uses a bazaar system in combination with a garage sale type of trading and manual trading with advertising via chat.  

[(PSN)wildcats1369my]

1 hour ago, Heckzu said:

Here's something most people don't seem to understand.

Games that have an automated trading system were either created to have it at the start, or experienced an economic crash on its implementation.

 

it can be done with good ideas and implementation, instead making the player suffer forever with this close minded belief.

the ah of other games was implemented poorly that it is open to abuse. we can always learn from these mistakes to create a better ah system.

[(PSN)ReiKiraAkuma]

Ok, I have read most of the replies to the subject thread and most if not all have skirted around one issue. Security of trade system. I belive as far as economics are considered D.E. could add a base fluxing pricing standard with an auction house system. The base fluxing price would be based off items held in players inventory that are tradable. The other type of security is an AH system adds to warfrme is player security, being scammed out of plat is a nightmare issue. Which in my opinion is a pettie theft yes an actual criminal action. 

I would like to point out every other M.M.O. I have ever played has had some type of regulated AH system in place. 

I do have a few ideas as to why DE didnt and wont implement an AH system and most of you hit the nail on the head when you sad DE would lose IRL money on plat4cash. 

Now going out on a limb here I going to talk about the scamming aspect. If a player can change the plat value or an item durring a trade at any time and scam someone out of plat or an item i consider this a crimnal act. I say D.E. is absolutely aware of this flaw in the current trading system and simply says its on you if you get scammed. Well if thats the case then I could say DE is an accessory after the fact. So, now here a twist plat actually have a real money value. So when I said someone get scammed of plat is a actual criminal action I ment it. Mmm any know what crimal damage is? 

So, if the alotted amount of plat of all trades that ended in a scam is over a certian amount. D.E. could possibly face grand larceny and conspiracy to commit grand larecny or accessor to commit charges

So D.E. choosing to not have a regulated  AH system in place leaves them open to possible civil and criminal charges. It makes more sense to me to safe guard players and to legally shield D.E. from scamming fallout. So, I guess ninjas play free. Takes on a whole new meaning. Ninja- gamer term mean to steal loot from another player.  D.E.'s motto could mean please steal another players plat so they have to buy more, so we make more money. 

Mmmm makes me rethink playing warframe at all. 

So, D.E. why no regulated Auction house....... maybe I know already.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 3, 2017 by (PS4)ReiKiraAkuma

[TessaraVejgan]

I agree with the OP. I'm one of those normal people who want the stuff he/she listed. The system atm moment is extremely annoying for someone like me. I have no problem amassing a decent amount of plat by selling stuff at the price I have set and buying it at the price I set (most of the time) by using the wf market as well as the chat but its very time consuming and can get frustrating. Usually when I'm in orbiter doing nothing but chatting with clan/alliance no one sends a pm asking for anything but the moment I enter a mission I get hi, wtb so and so or are you there?, hello are you there. DUDE WHY THE **** AREN'T YOU ANSWERING ME if I don't say anything in matter od seconds so yeah some sort of automated board would be appreciated even if I'm fully aware that the prices will go down (which they already are thanks to wf market, relic system and generally easier access to most stuff in the past few months).

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

 

[Fallen_Echo]

The current trading system is almost the same as an open market.

People stand around and mindlessly yell into the crowd in hope they buy or sell their stuff.

The soo called price inflation is already here, you cant even sell most common mods because no one wants them even for 1p.

An auction house wont change it, it would only show people how much their useless mods worth and would make newbies realise that they were scammed.

I have several duplicate mods of all rarities but i dont sell them becuase the trading system takes too much of my time what i could use for farming actual valuable items.

I say we need an auction house system like what OP has described.

[Heckzu]

10 hours ago, (PS4)ReiKiraAkuma said:

Now going out on a limb here I going to talk about the scamming aspect. If a player can change the plat value or an item durring a trade at any time and scam someone out of plat or an item i consider this a crimnal act. I say D.E. is absolutely aware of this flaw in the current trading system and simply says its on you if you get scammed. Well if thats the case then I could say DE is an accessory after the fact. So, now here a twist plat actually have a real money value. So when I said someone get scammed of plat is a actual criminal action I ment it. Mmm any kn

So, if the alotted amount of plat of all trades that ended in a scam is over a certian amount. D.E. could possibly face grand larceny and conspiracy to commit grand larecny or accessor to commit charges

So D.E. choosing to not have a regulated  AH system in place leaves them open to possible civil and criminal charges. It makes more sense to me to safe guard players and to legally shield D.E. from scamming fallout. So, I guess ninjas play free. Takes on a whole new meaning. Ninja- gamer term mean to steal loot from another player.  D.E.'s motto could mean please steal another players plat so they have to buy more, so we make more money. 

You are so fundamentally wrong that I don't know where I should start correcting you.

1. DE owns your account and everything it has, as per the EULA and ToC. DE merely leases you your account. If someone "scams" you, you cannot being it to court because you cannot sue in defense of something that you so not represent or does not belong to you.
2. Changing the amount of currency during the trade cannot be legally recognized as scamming. The confirm trade screen is the equivalent of a contract: it lists what each party of the agreement gains from each other and requires both parties to agree. The trade is recorded on DE's servers, so there is proof of "contract". Both parties are notified of any changes made before the finalization of the trade, and are required to accept the changes before the trade can be finalized. You cannot sue someone for scam because you did not read the contract before you signed it.
3. If you tried to bring DE to court for actions done by users of their service (in this case players and the trade system), you will almost definitely lose the case before it could ever get to court, as you cannot legally consider DE to be an accomplice. Service providers are not held responsible for what their users do, so long as the service itself is fully legal. And I don't see anything illegal with Warframe. 
4. DE has implemented many features to help prevent players from being tricked, with the most recent being adding arrows to indicate if plat values have changed. If people still get tricked with so many countermeasures in place, then you can't argue that it isn't their fault.
5. People still get " scammed " in games with an auction house. An auction house by no means guarantees security. There are other games that don't have an auction house; it is neither a needed nor objectively benefiting feature to have.

 

[Insane-Mana]

I can't for the life of me understand why people are so hooked on trade chat the way it is. It's basically chaos in a chat window, saw this one guy 2day trying to buy a common mod for over 30 minutes, problem is not many players will go through the trouble of the selling process for 10p. Then we get the people who say go to warframe market, well i put stuff on there ( 20 items ish) never to get a sale.

The idea provided by topic starter is awesome and i hope something like this would be implemented soon. and i would actually pay real money for a service like that.

 

[Heckzu]

1 hour ago, Insane-Mana said:

I can't for the life of me understand why people are so hooked on trade chat the way it is. It's basically chaos in a chat window, saw this one guy 2day trying to buy a common mod for over 30 minutes, problem is not many players will go through the trouble of the selling process for 10p. Then we get the people who say go to warframe market, well i put stuff on there ( 20 items ish) never to get a sale.

The idea provided by topic starter is awesome and i hope something like this would be implemented soon. and i would actually pay real money for a service like that.

The community has made a multitude of suggestions on how to improve the trade chat: dividing the chat into subcategories, adding a filter option, implementing a search function, etc, all of which would improve upon what is already existing.

An auction house, however, not only requires building from the ground up in order to implement, but has also been proven to have the potential to hurt a game (see Diablo 3's Auction House), which is why the community is against the implementation of an auction house.

Most people aren't content with the current trade chat. But an auction house isn't what the community wants.

[Vallerian]

On 4/2/2017 at 10:36 AM, Momaw said:

And? Do you make a realistic offer? Don't stop in the middle of the story

It's very hard to know what's a 'realistic offer' without anything else to compare it to

A Riven mod could be between 300-1k depending on the buyer/seller

Not to mention there are so many speculators in trade chat that almost every 'hot' item is a huge price bubble. Merchants camp the chat channel buying up all the speculated hot items then try to flip them at ridiculous prices, in the end everyone gets screwed except Merchants. Perfect example is people asking 700p-800p for an Ember Prime Set when we all know goddamn well it's not worth anything near that because if they rip off even 1 unfortunate noob, it covers their expenses for like 3-4 sets of Ember Prime. It becomes very difficult to acquire items regardless of F2P or P2P. 

Maybe WF doesn't want an auction house, but there needs to at least be something to keep sellers honest

Edited April 4, 2017 by Vallerian

[Vallerian]

On 4/2/2017 at 2:41 PM, Heckzu said:

Here's something most people don't seem to understand.

Games that have an automated trading system were either created to have it at the start, or experienced an economic crash on its implementation.

Warframe didn't even have trading in the beginning. Thus, you can't say an auction house / broker system will work in Warframe because it worked in some other game you've played because that other game probably had it from the start, before it had a running economy. And if that other game did implement trading after its inception, chances are it experienced a large scale deflation. In Warframe, massive deflation would hinder the ability for free to play players to progress.

There are also other games that don't use an automated trading system and have stable economies. Maplestory used a bazaar type system and was quite popular back in the day. Mabinogi uses a bazaar system in combination with a garage sale type of trading and manual trading with advertising via chat.  

I don't see how deflated prices would hinder f2p players; lower prices might make P2P more powerful, but it doesn't hinder f2p, you're still free to progress at whatever rate you were progressing before. The plat profits you make from your drops are lower, but everything also costs much less.

IDK about mabinogi, but I remember Maplestory 'bazaar' was a fantastic system. Prices were more or less regulated by a fair market because players could see the common max price on items, and it was easy and fun to browse/sell items because the shop format wasn't absolutely garbage, inconvenient, and useless (cough Maroo).  Maplestory shops are a perfect example of what Warframe could have instead of an auction house.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Vallerian

[[DE]Momaw]

3 minutes ago, Vallerian said:

Not to mention there are so many speculators in trade chat that almost every 'hot' item is a huge price bubble. Merchants camp the chat channel buying up all the speculated hot items then try to flip them at ridiculous prices, in the end everyone gets screwed except Merchants. Perfect example is people asking 700p-800p for an Ember Prime Set when we all know goddamn well it's not worth anything near that.

Maybe WF doesn't want an auction house, but there needs to at least be something to keep sellers honest

"We" don't know that at all.

Prices on old vaulted items are legitimately high because you're trying to buy something that a person farmed months or years ago and has been sitting on ever since.  There is no conspiracy to gobble up all the cheap ember prime sets before you see them and add a 900% markup. The real wheeling and dealing (and incidentally the highest RISK, which everybody seems to overlook when they spit on dedicated traders) happens in fluid economies...but the market for vaulted primes isn't fluid.  The only stock is finite, and the demand slowly and reliably increases over time. That's why they're precious.  The only thing that's even the tiniest bit manipulative about old vaulted primes is that wealthy players can afford to wait and buy up individual parts to make sets which are worth more than the sum of their parts. You could get the stuff you wanted cheaper if you invested an equal amount of time waiting for it. Buying finished sets instead of parts is a convenience and you pay for it; buying old stuff that doesn't drop anymore is a luxury and you really pay for it.

I'd be curious why you think the price on old vaulted primes would be so much lower with an auction house.  I believe they are one of the few things that would maintain any real value, because they are one of the few things that have actual scarcity.  (Stuff like this would also be the #1 target for price-fixing cartels btw).

 

Quote

I don't see how deflated prices would hinder f2p players; lower prices might make P2P more powerful, but it doesn't hinder f2p, you're still free to progress at whatever rate you were progressing before. The plat profits you make from your drops are lower, but everything also costs much less.

Prices in the market are fixed. If the player driven economy tanks so hard that almost nothing is worth more than 1 or 2 plat for its endo or ducat value, you end up in a situation where you need to sell a dozen rare mods to afford a weapon slot, instead of 1. Buying a new scarf, for 90 or 100 platinum? You could be grinding for months to scrape together enough barely-sellable garbage to earn that.

And now the auction house has made things worse for F2P players.

 

[Yuzai_No]

How about an auto-shout every 2 mins in the trade chat instead. I don't like re-typing the same items and prices I shout. I know I can just use a notepad or whatever then copy and paste. That still requires for me to Alt+Tab

[TaylorsContraction]

OP's idea I'd actually good if applied to riven mods only and any other rng stat items introduced in the future.  Just don't add any of the normal loot to the system.

[(XBOX)XXXtraSauce68]

On 4/1/2017 at 7:31 PM, NeithanDiniem said:

Cons:

It is now easier to buy out limited supply items from the market and mark up prices to inflated levels.

It is now easier for illegal traders to use above method to generate plat to sell for real cash

It requires DE to further expand the server system to hold just this information instead of using said servers to host the actual game sessions.

It increases problems for the game and DE if said servers have an issue and items marked up for sale don't deliver properly and/or vanish entirely due to errors.

Prices for common items tank due to overabundance of supply, prices for rare items skyrocket due to demand increasing and supply decreasing.

You cant compare a digital market which has a few hundred tradable items with a much easier supply vs target market population with the actual world's economy which has hundreds of thousands of items with quite limited supply vs target market population. Its like trying to say our sun is equivalent to VY Canis Majoris because they are both stars.

DE has already stated, quite a few times now, they are working on a solution. Its not been a priority for the game at this time though since Clans are in just as large of a problem area as trade.

1. People do this anyway, they farm prime parts, and wait for them to be vaulted, then overcharge. Not an issue.

2. It's still against the terms to do this, and anyone who does can be banned. Not like that'll change.

3. Duh? Why would anyone be AGAINST DE expanding their servers anyway? The thing that makes the game run smoother, ya know?

4. Nope. Just use the exact same system that is already in place to recover "lost" items. I've had power outages and then received prime parts in my inbox. Already exists, man.

5. No S#&$, sherlock. That's Econ 101, man. That's not an issue. Like stating "apples are red"... and...? So what? Prices drop and fall already. 

6. You CAN compare them, you just have to take into account those concepts. Like you just compared two stars (Straw-manning the hell out of that, too)

All an Auction House will do for Warframe is make buying and selling things easier. Getting the two people who have items to meet and exchange their items at less of a cost to their time, effort, energy, etc. Which leaves more room to play the game. If I wanted to play a game like some Arabian carpet salesman at his stall screaming his wares to anyone within earshot while everyone else does the same thing... I'd play that game. Warframe is Space-Ninja-Badassery with lazers and spaceships and S#&$. Yet, somehow, we don't have Ebay? Seriously?

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

I just want to be able to pre-set a trade with a specified price, then feed that into the Trade Chat. Someone sees it, activates it, puts up the requested price, and then it's done - I don't have to chat with anyone, haggle, fly to a dojo, troll Maroo's bazaar, or any of that. 

The process would be like this:

1. Load Trade: add items to a trade-interface like window, for example, put the Ash Prime set in there.

2. Specify platinum price for the item. 

3. Click "Send to Trade Chat"

4. In trade chat, someone sees the offer, and goes to my Username or clicks on the offer and up pops the trade window on their screen. They put in the requested platinum, hit "trade," and it's done: platinum appears in my account, items appear in theirs.