Great News Everyone: DE Has Decided What Endgame Is

[Music4Therapy]

13 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

Warframe would be better with an absolute, concrete balance point for endgame. Then we can have flat damage abilities without them being completely irrelevant in endgame, and we wouldn't need crutches like permanent hard CC. 

And to that point, DE is clearly headed down the other road.

Most players have no idea wtf they are talking about and use the word "scaling" as some sort of buzzword when they don't understand what it means nor the implications of it.

Just look at that "Every frame needs scaling blaha" thread.

Then these people that have no idea wtf they are talking about make suggestions, and a lot of the times their suggestions are louder than others. DE is a company, if they want to make money they have to make those loud people happy.

DE clearly intended for sorties/raids to be endgame originally, but now that shift has changed and instead of frames doing flat amounts of damage and having that number scale with power strength, they scale infinitely.

Scaling infinitely doesn't matter unless you are an endurance player, yet the army of people that don't know wtf they are talking about are demanding it when I seriously doubt they ever do endless runs.

[Gurpgork]

13 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

Scaling infinitely doesn't matter unless you are an endurance player, yet the army of people that don't know wtf they are talking about are demanding it when I seriously doubt they ever do endless runs.

Building on that, don't people who actually do endless runs like them because they gradually get harder the longer they go on, and not because they like throwing out meaningless large numbers against enemies with equally meaningless large numbers?

[Vafthrudnir]

8 hours ago, Raniu said:

I agree. Add Volt to the list too though.

He'll need a very special treatment.

[Music4Therapy]

58 minutes ago, Gurpgork said:

Building on that, don't people who actually do endless runs like them because they gradually get harder the longer they go on, and not because they like throwing out meaningless large numbers against enemies with equally meaningless large numbers?

Yes, and no.

As an endurance/endless player myself, the whole point of endless is to be challenged and see what your limits are. Lasting over an hour solo in survival used to be an accomplishment. Now, there is no limit due to the existence of Naramon and our infinitely scaling offensive abilities. That's why many of the endurance/endless players have burned out, the lack of incentive due to the removal of towers and the lack of a limit due to infinite scaling. The hardest thing about an endless Survival should be surviving the constant onslaught of enemies, not the reduced spawn rate and lack of life support due to it.

[Vanrythzx]

On 23.4.2017 at 4:35 PM, Trichouette said:

100 stacks doesn't mean infinitely

well, you can gain stacks infinitely, so its basically infinitely, yes.

[Trichouette]

1 hour ago, Vanrythzx said:

well, you can gain stacks infinitely, so its basically infinitely, yes.

But there is a cap, hence it's not infinite

[Vanrythzx]

1 hour ago, Trichouette said:

But there is a cap, hence it's not infinite

but you can gain stacks again, so its infinite.

[Trichouette]

42 minutes ago, Vanrythzx said:

but you can gain stacks again, so its infinite.

but your damage don't keep growing.

[Music4Therapy]

1 hour ago, Trichouette said:

but your damage don't keep growing.

It's infinite because you can be hit for 99999999999999999+ damage, and so long as you have 15 stacks you will live.

You know what the difference between being able to scale infinitely defensively and being invincible is right? One is capable of being invincible, the other is invincible 100% of the time.

[Miser_able]

Gr8 b8 m8 8/8

[PakkiTheDog]

On 4/23/2017 at 4:19 PM, Music4Therapy said:

Endgame = Endless, and here is proof. Edit: Rather, all frames will scale with enemies.

Look at the last 2 frames and the Oberon/Limbo rework.

1) Nidus scales infinitely defensively due to invulnerability+stack mechanic. Kit has great synergy. Top tier frame.

2) Octavia's mallet does damage based on enemy damage, thus scales infinitely. If Octavia's mallet ability was released a year ago, it would more like this: "Does 200 damage per second in an area. Damage scales with power stength" Kit also has great synergy. Top tier frame.

3) Limbo does damage based on enemy health now. Kit has great synergy. Top tier frame, insane levels of CC.

4) They plan on doing the same with Oberon's kit according to the latest primetime, #161.

Don't be surprised when every frame gets touched up this way.

Higher lvl missions, more eximus and heavy units and these frames become absolute. At least that was with me, when testing in simulacrum. Octavia had problems with a mix of lvl 50-70 enemies and Nidus didn't deal that much dmg at 70+ either. As for Limbo, his nuke times are over. Deals low dmg against lvl 30+ enemies. But still great CC with some nice dmg (when going out of the rift).

 

But than again i might have bad builds (99% sure i don't, but you can always be wrong :9). So if you did some tests, have the builds capable of taking down high lvl minions that please share :)

[Vanrythzx]

16 hours ago, PakkiTheDog said:

Higher lvl missions, more eximus and heavy units and these frames become absolute. At least that was with me, when testing in simulacrum. Octavia had problems with a mix of lvl 50-70 enemies and Nidus didn't deal that much dmg at 70+ either. As for Limbo, his nuke times are over. Deals low dmg against lvl 30+ enemies. But still great CC with some nice dmg (when going out of the rift).

 

But than again i might have bad builds (99% sure i don't, but you can always be wrong :9). So if you did some tests, have the builds capable of taking down high lvl minions that please share :)

mhh i don't know, i have no problems at all with 100+ enemies with all these frames, maybe you're right and it's a build problem or l2p issue. 

[PakkiTheDog]

5 minutes ago, Vanrythzx said:

mhh i don't know, i have no problems at all with 100+ enemies with all these frames, maybe you're right and it's a build problem or l2p issue. 

Could you share your builds?

[Vanrythzx]

8 minutes ago, PakkiTheDog said:

Could you share your builds?

So, for limbo i use this http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Limbo/t_30_2304234030_4-7-5-8-8-5-13-5-3-46-2-5-49-6-10-57-3-5-479-0-10-481-1-10-613-4-5-616-9-5_479-7-481-7-46-11-57-8-613-5-13-7-49-8-4-9-8-14-616-9_0/en/1-0-28/ you are pretty much immortal. can also swap energy siphon for corrosive projection, if you so like. 

for nidus i use this http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Nidus/t_30_2004000030_2-3-10-4-2-5-5-5-5-6-4-5-34-8-5-46-6-5-55-1-5-59-7-3-411-0-10_411-8-55-11-4-9-2-6-6-11-5-9-46-11-59-9-34-14-f-f_0/en/1-0-51 spammy build, you can also swap for high power duration, medium range, high effiency build, for a more "campy" build.

octavia don't have yet, but im pretty sure she can do everything x)

[GKDK]

Sorties as endgame? I just did a Sortie 3 at Eximus Stronghold where a Rhino was locking down the entire map. I ended up trying to shoot the crotches of all the frozen enemies in the air for the entire mission. 

[(PSN)watt4hem]

Top tier click bait title.

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

On 4/23/2017 at 4:57 PM, Gurpgork said:

Then what's the point of even having enemy scaling? If we can negate enemy levels by nuking everything with percentage based abilities, then what's the point of enemies increasing in stats? And don't mention the possibility of one-shots, because Warframe still has numerous mapwide disables that pretty much eliminate that aspect of enemy scaling as well. 

Warframe would be better with an absolute, concrete balance point for endgame. Then we can have flat damage abilities without them being completely irrelevant in endgame, and we wouldn't need crutches like permanent hard CC. 

I think after they turn more powerful abilities in to not 100% of hp nukes  then start to work on weapons they can start lowering CC .  Where Lv 200s can kill you easily, not one shot you. and still tank normal weapon fire ( lets say it takes 2  to kill a mid tier greiner at 200 with a high modded with some status that hrt armor braton P) and most non nukes   sorta for the non nuke abilities.   Then after all the weapon , ability. and such is done they can let us have fun yet great weapons that can be decent powerful.  

 

On 4/23/2017 at 11:26 AM, AuroraSonicBoom said:

It's not endgame, and no frame should scale indefinitely with enemy level, otherwise the point of endless missions - the enemy becoming  eventually so powerful that there's no way to win - will get completely negated. Staying in the same god forsaken mission for hours and just watching enemy levels increase while doing the same exact thing is not endgame, and thank the lord that DE realized this when they nuked how the void works.

yes because if they rework most nukes to lets says it takes 30% off of all enemies  of current hp, not max. still heavy damage but still keeps it from being to op.  then after weapons, they can balance enemies

[S0VEREIGNSK]

Not all frames will be scaled to endgame

[Cook-EN-]

Wrong. Fashionframe is endgame.

[Wolfdoggie]

I was hoping for useful information. :(

[Carnage2K4]

22 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

It's infinite because you can be hit for 99999999999999999+ damage, and so long as you have 15 stacks you will live.

You know what the difference between being able to scale infinitely defensively and being invincible is right? One is capable of being invincible, the other is invincible 100% of the time.

You seem to not be contemplating what happens when you get hit that second time when you just used your last 15 stacks...

 

I'm sure if you're right you'll be happy to prove it by going to say... enemy level 1000 with Nidus in Mot of something.

Edited April 25, 2017 by Carnage2K4