Hydroid Alterations - Post Revisit

[Navarc]

6 hours ago, Dwarcx said:

Man I really like all these suggestions! There are so many warframes that have better utility and do more damage than Hydroid. I'd really like DE to finally buff/fix Hydroid. Man I really like all these suggestions! There are so many warframes that have better utility and do more damage than Hydroid. I'd really like DE to finally buff/fix Hydroid.

Thanks man - really hope they've looked here through the feedback threads for inspiration.
 

 

5 hours ago, Somb3rBivalve said:

Well they confirmed hydroid prime and hydroid rework at tennocon today, so I guess we'll see what they do with him. Let's hope for the best!

I definitely am.

[Noabettiet]

On 7/8/2017 at 10:25 PM, sappinmahsentry said:

@Navarchus

IMO, Tentacle Swarm should just hold enemies instead of slamming them regardless if they are prone. The fact that they slam enemies is one of the biggest reasons they aren't used.

this feels sorta ignored

i like this idea, a lot. But it would also mean that it'd become another rhino stomp ulti. What could make it ..different? Armor stripping as it crushes?

[Navarc]

8 hours ago, Noabettiet said:

this feels sorta ignored

i like this idea, a lot. But it would also mean that it'd become another rhino stomp ulti. What could make it ..different? Armor stripping as it crushes?

On 7/8/2017 at 11:25 PM, sappinmahsentry said:

@Navarchus

IMO, Tentacle Swarm should just hold enemies instead of slamming them regardless if they are prone. The fact that they slam enemies is one of the biggest reasons they aren't used.

Yeah I entirely missed that post, thank you for pointing it out!
He already has armour stripping as an augment so I feel having armour stripping as a 4 would make the augment irrelevant and need an overhaul, it would also build several hydroids existing builds which I'm avoiding in this thread.

If they hold enemies at all times and never swing them, then it's the same as Rhino stomp/Nezhas spears though except much better range potential and more damage, not really fair or interesting. Maybe I could add to the list that if you shoot at the source puddle from where the tentacle emerges, it lets the enemy go so you can shoot it as it falls or when it's on the ground?

[Turtlemancer]

T-T this is beautiful! Hydroid was the first frame I truly devoted myself to getting and I do really enjoy jumping on the frame from time to time. I mean it would be awesome if hopping onto Hydroid to makes some waves wasn't so much of a guilty pleasure, and more of a legitimate joy.

I would like to suggest that all Hydroids damaging powers really should be able to at least in part deal corrosive damage. Their is literally no other warframe concept other than a guy who spits acid in peoples faces for which corrosive damage makes more sense. SO Hydroid should be able to apply corrosion without needing a mod.

Also if we are gonna bring up his name, I want to suggest Mako or is that too obvious?

Edited July 10, 2017 by Turtlemancer

[Navarc]

16 minutes ago, Turtlemancer said:

T-T this is beautiful! Hydroid was the first frame I truly devoted myself to getting and I do really enjoy jumping on the frame from time to time. I mean it would be awesome if hopping onto Hydroid to makes some waves wasn't so much of a guilty pleasure, and more of a legitimate joy.

I would like to suggest that all Hydroids damaging powers really should be able to at least in part deal corrosive damage. Their is literally no other warframe concept other than a guy who spits acid in peoples faces for which corrosive damage makes more sense. SO Hydroid should be able to apply corrosion without needing a mod.

Also if we are gonna bring up his name, I want to suggest Mako or is that too obvious?

Hey, thank you for the support on the thread, glad you agree with it!
I can absolutely see how water does corrode a lot of materials and metals most importantly so it does make sense, but if corrosive was to be innate then a new augment has to replace his Tempest Barrages utility & I don't see it working for his 3 and 4 - because they outright ignore armour which is better than slowly stripping it. It'd be a nerf to the ability.
So his 1 and 2 could sensibly corrode armour as water does but yeah, a replacement would be needed for his augment.

[Turtlemancer]

1 hour ago, Navarchus said:

Hey, thank you for the support on the thread, glad you agree with it!
I can absolutely see how water does corrode a lot of materials and metals most importantly so it does make sense, but if corrosive was to be innate then a new augment has to replace his Tempest Barrages utility & I don't see it working for his 3 and 4 - because they outright ignore armour which is better than slowly stripping it. It'd be a nerf to the ability.
So his 1 and 2 could sensibly corrode armour as water does but yeah, a replacement would be needed for his augment.

Simple change the name and have it add slash proc. After all water traveling at high speeds can and does cut.

Grape Shot Barrage, Maybe? Or Shrapnel Barrage?

Then again...

Homing Barrage

A Augment that causes a % of projectiles produced by Barrage to lock onto an enemy within Barrages radius, preferably around 80% at max rank but that maybe asking to much so... 50%? This would allow for high range Hydroid builds to be pretty decant.

 

Edited July 11, 2017 by Turtlemancer

[Navarc]

9 hours ago, Turtlemancer said:

Simple change the name and have it add slash proc. After all water traveling at high speeds can and does cut.

Grape Shot Barrage, Maybe? Or Shrapnel Barrage?

Then again...

Homing Barrage

A Augment that causes a % of projectiles produced by Barrage to lock onto an enemy within Barrages radius, preferably around 80% at max rank but that maybe asking to much so... 50%? This would allow for high range Hydroid builds to be pretty decant.

 

I feel like homing makes his abilities too controlled, they're supposed to be chaotic, wild and a homing augment only being a chance means most people would just rather make a range build to increase the area of the barrage rather than making them fly after enemies. I think it's cool but I don't think it follows the theme honestly.

[sappinmahsentry]

On 7/10/2017 at 6:27 AM, Navarchus said:

Yeah I entirely missed that post, thank you for pointing it out!
He already has armour stripping as an augment so I feel having armour stripping as a 4 would make the augment irrelevant and need an overhaul, it would also build several hydroids existing builds which I'm avoiding in this thread.

If they hold enemies at all times and never swing them, then it's the same as Rhino stomp/Nezhas spears though except much better range potential and more damage, not really fair or interesting. Maybe I could add to the list that if you shoot at the source puddle from where the tentacle emerges, it lets the enemy go so you can shoot it as it falls or when it's on the ground?

Well, Hydroid's ult deals approximately NO real damage right now. Unless I missed something, your rework sadly does not solve that. So I suggest that tentacle swarm deals finisher damage instead of being stupid and dealing magnetic. This won't just make it another Ash ult, as it would deal less damage than it, but have better CC than it. A happy medium, if you will.

Edited July 12, 2017 by sappinmahsentry

[Navarc]

32 minutes ago, sappinmahsentry said:

Well, Hydroid's ult deals approximately NO real damage right now. Unless I missed something, your rework sadly does not solve that. So I suggest that tentacle swarm deals finisher damage instead of being stupid and dealing magnetic. This won't just make it another Ash ult, as it would deal less damage than it, but have better CC than it. A happy medium, if you will.

It's not meant for killing enemies to begin with though, it hasn't been made for that even when he was new and a lot more powerful. He's not a damage warframe like saryn, ash, mag, nova and so on. He's CC similar to Vauban with more damage potential but of course limited.
Giving him this immense CC which kills off what he's CCing would be counteractive and stepping in more roles than it needs, do you not agree with the available buffs in these lists also having damage comparable to damage dealer warframes would be too much?

Edited July 12, 2017 by Navarchus

[Azamagon]

9 hours ago, sappinmahsentry said:

Well, Hydroid's ult deals approximately NO real damage right now. Unless I missed something, your rework sadly does not solve that. So I suggest that tentacle swarm deals finisher damage instead of being stupid and dealing magnetic. This won't just make it another Ash ult, as it would deal less damage than it, but have better CC than it. A happy medium, if you will.

Ummm... Tentacle Swarm only deals Magnetic damage on a few occasions: When summoned or grappling an enemy for the first time, and then again when they are unsummoned. But when an enemy is being dealt damage over time by the tentacle, that damagetype IS finisherdamage already...

[Navarc]

Just now, Azamagon said:

Ummm... Tentacle Swarm only deals Magnetic damage on a few occasions: When summoned or grappling an enemy for the first time, and then again when they are unsummoned. But when an enemy is being dealt damage over time by the tentacle, that damagetype IS finisherdamage already...

I think he means removing magnetic altogether and just doing finisher at all times, but that would work negatively for people who use condition overload on melee since that extra status is very welcome.

[Azamagon]

Just now, Navarchus said:

I think he means removing magnetic altogether and just doing finisher at all times, but that would work negatively for people who use condition overload on melee since that extra status is very welcome.

As far as I'm aware, his tentacles have 0% status chance (I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain). So for Condition Overload that's kinda moot *shrugs*

[Navarc]

1 minute ago, Azamagon said:

As far as I'm aware, his tentacles have 0% status chance (I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain). So for Condition Overload that's kinda moot *shrugs*

I didn't even notice. I can't even think of magnetic proc looks because I so rarely and others so rarely actually bother with it.
But yeah, then it doesn't matter if the tentacles deal magnetic or finisher damage to begin&start with since overall the real damage is from the finisher damage for the duration & it bypasses the shields & armour anyhow even if it would proc and reduce shields for some enemies which thinking of it, I don't believe it can.

[Navarc]

New suggestions have been added.

• Passive: Rogue wave: When performing a slam attack that damages: a watery apparition of Hydroid casts a low Tidal Surge that can only knock enemies down rather than ragdoll them. Deals direct slam attack damage if it hits any enemies scaling with mods, travelling where you were aiming when performing the slam attack. Hits add to combo counter. @Gundamboy
• Undertow (3) - Vulnerability: Enemies sink halfway immediately but struggle to get out and slowly sink the other half, with their head & arms exposed in panic. @Gundamboy
• Dark Waters: Undertow Augment (3): Corpses sunk into the Undertow are converted into Hydroid husks, crawling out of the Undertow and following enemies for 8/10/12/15 seconds. On death or expiration they explode, using the same animation and stats as your tempest barrage salvo. If tempest barrage is augmented the husk explosion will use that augment. @Gundamboy
• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Anti-dragging out defense missions: Warframe melee strikes on tentacles causes them to drop their target for you to kill. Only default strikes work, not slide attacks. Too many whip & polearm macro users for 4 to ever work otherwise. @Vorcov

[sappinmahsentry]

Tentacle Swarm does deal finisher damage, but it deals almost no damage. Without any fundamental tweaks to it, nobody will use it because it will just hold enemies without allowing anyone to kill them without taking the CC away. Hydroid is one of my favorite frames to play. I know that without removing the slamming or adding more damage, tentacle swarm will NEVER be used.

Edited July 13, 2017 by sappinmahsentry

[Navarc]

1 hour ago, sappinmahsentry said:

Tentacle Swarm does deal finisher damage, but it deals almost no damage. Without any fundamental tweaks to it, nobody will use it because it will just hold enemies without allowing anyone to kill them without taking the CC away. Hydroid is one of my favorite frames to play. I know that without removing the slamming or adding more damage, tentacle swarm will NEVER be used.

But it does get addressed in these.
 

• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Anti-dragging out defense missions: Warframe melee strikes on tentacles causes them to drop their target for you to kill. Only default strikes work, not slide attacks. Too many whip & polearm macro users for 4 to ever work otherwise. @Vorcov
• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Synergy & support allies with range: Enemies that are prone when tentacles grab them are held in place, being crushed instead of being slammed against the floor.  @RudyBojangles

[morningstar999]

hydroid prime looks so amazing I can't wait, but they HAVE to rework him before it comes out, sadly a lot of people aren't hydroid fans and I don't think he'd sell otherwise (that and I so want to see him improved, its my second most used frame after all)

I dunno if Ive posted any of these before but I thought I would share my current ideas: (if anyone else has suggested this and i missed it sorry im just not reading every post lol)

I'm still really liking most of these ideas as a rework, personally I think the first power needs to be buffed, at least more accurate so it actually is guaranteed to hit (at least 3-6) amount of targets rather being a utterly vague area of effect that doesn't hurt anything past level 20. most other warframes first powers at least stun/hurt or even kill enemies at at this level (and much higher honestly) 

second power I would like to see replaced with something else, or perhaps changed so you send out waves of water but don't become the water itself, that way you can send out tidal waves and then fire of some shots or something. I find becoming the wave disorientating and a bit pointless, I want hydroid to control the sea more than become it.    

third power I like but I feel the puddle should be able to slowly move rather than just remain stationary. I have super energy efficiency on my hydroid but I still find it a bit too energy hungry. (the more people you have sucked into your puddle the more energy it takes but I find it takes quite a while to kill anything with it, considering)

fourth power, which is generally what is most used, needs to scale better, once you hit level 50-70 it stops doing much damage, even with its 'finisher' damage. in fact that's one of hydroids biggest problems he doesn't scale well. I'm used to how casting this power works, but even then I still find the tentacles will randomly go someplace else  (like the roof when your looking at a wall for example) and this needs to be tweaked as its a common complaint Ive heard that that people find casting it where they want it to be hard.

With hydroid's weak armor and current powers once you hit 50-70 he can't cope, that is my biggest gripe, I want a Pirate that I can take to end-game but currently this isn't the case, luckily pretty much all of the new frames and the reworks have been catering to that and have made some good scaling damage and frames.

what do people think of these ideas?

[sappinmahsentry]

8 hours ago, Navarchus said:

But it does get addressed in these.
 

• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Anti-dragging out defense missions: Warframe melee strikes on tentacles causes them to drop their target for you to kill. Only default strikes work, not slide attacks. Too many whip & polearm macro users for 4 to ever work otherwise. @Vorcov
• Tentacle Swarm (4) - Synergy & support allies with range: Enemies that are prone when tentacles grab them are held in place, being crushed instead of being slammed against the floor.  @RudyBojangles

That's not really addressing, because enemies would have to be prone to be held, and meleeing them, as I said, takes the CC away. I know that Tempest Barrage would exist, but you have to know that people aren't just gonna wait til the end of the ability to get the best function out of tentacle swarm. Cause we KNOW that Tempest Barrage is too RNG to be used. This honestly feels like forced synergy, and you know how much the community loves that. Not trying to [redacted] on your rework, but this doesn't really solve Hydroid's mad RNG hell. It only makes it slightly less worse. It's a better idea altogether for the tracking on Tempest Barrage to be made better.

Edited July 14, 2017 by sappinmahsentry

[Meneliki]

Hey guys,

I hate to use the term "Hydroid Main", cuz it seems silly.. but Hydroid is my favorite and most used frame. Despite this, he's got some issues. His abilities are... well...... yeah. So uhh.. about his abilities. This is how I would rework them:

Tempest  Barrage - basically leave it as is, but allow us to stack it more w/ Natural Talent. Right now, Natural Talent causes the animation to happen faster, but DOES NOT allow you to actually CAST it with any higher frequency. I.E - With or without Natural Talent, you will still cast the same number of Tempest Barrages within a 10 second period. I'd love this to change for some epic artillery style grind tactics.

Tidal Surge - Really fun ability, but lacks control. Like most warframe abilities, it does huge dmg at low levels, and none at high levels. Which is ok, it's more for the CC. What Tidal Surge REALLY needs is more control. Rather than costing me X energy to do it, and being locked into a ridiculously long surge, what if it worked more like a channeled ability and you tapped the button to start/stop the surge. You could control the duration of your surges, and do multiple in rapid succession in different direction to awesome effect. Spend energy based on distance traveled.

Undertow - Extremely fun ability but ultimately worthless without the healing augment. What if it..... *looks around*........ did DAMAGE!? I know, it's a crazy thought, but what if DROWNING was BAD for enemies? 8^O Maybe damage scaling based on the number of enemies caught in the puddle? Or ramping up damage as time went by? Or let us move while active at the cost of additional energy?

Tentacle Swarm - A visually impressive, but ultimately underwhelming farming ability with some light CC value. It appears that the overall tentacle count is set, and therefore if you add range to your Hydroid, the tentacle density suffers. I would change this ability to preserve a certain tentacle density regardless of the area covered. More range = more overall tentacles to preserve density. As it is, a range Hydroid has 1 tentacle per square kilometer which is less than useful. (OK exaggerated but u get the idea)

In addition to this, he needs more armor. Nothin' like gettin' 2 shotted by.. well, everything.

Just my thoughts. Thanks for reading.

 

{M}

[morningstar999]

17 minutes ago, Meneliki said:

What if it..... *looks around*........ did DAMAGE!? I know, it's a crazy thought, but what if DROWNING was BAD for enemies?

"what kinda things do humans breathe? Not water! if you put them in water then forget about it! they get real quite after breathing waters"

but yeah it does damage over time but its so weak at higher levels it might as well not be a thing,

 

[DarkRuler2500]

Dude this concept is so WELL THOUGHT, it is amazing.

Please @DE consider this it is an awesome concept!

[Riot_Inducer]

Tentacle Swarm is my biggest gripe with Hydroid's current implementation. Both thematically and mechanically I find it to be incredibly underwhelming. You're supposed to be summoning a goddamn kraken from the deep to lay waste to your foes, but the way tentacles just spawn randomly all over the shop makes it look more like you've summoned an army of wacky waving inflatable arm flailing tube men.

That's also not to mention the behavior of the tentacles, flopping about randomly with no guiding intelligence. This flailing detracts from the ability's CC potential as RNG can easily allow enemies to walk through the swarm unscathed. The appearance of the ability itself is also very lackluster, when a tentacle "grabs" an enemy they're just speared on the tentacle and have their ragdoll tweak out like they got bugged through a wall. In short the ability looks bad, performs poorly and feels lackluster for its theme.

I would suggest the ability create an Undertow like pool from which all the tentacles spawn, enemies are actively targeted and grabbed by the tentacles then pulled into the pool where they are dealt finisher damage. With this change enemies would be untargetable while affected by the ability, to counter this I would allow the ability to be cancelled early similar to Limbo's Cataclysm. Additionally I would tweak the numbers of the ability as such: Reduce the radius to 6/8/10/12 m, Change the tentacle's finisher damage to 175 + 5% of the enemy's max health (affected by power strength) per second. 

With these changes I feel Tentacle Swarm would be visually cleaner and more impressive/intimidating, additionally the change to its damage formula would allow it to scale into later game content.  

[Navarc]

16 hours ago, morningstar999 said:

I'm still really liking most of these ideas as a rework, personally I think the first power needs to be buffed, at least more accurate so it actually is guaranteed to hit (at least 3-6) amount of targets rather being a utterly vague area of effect that doesn't hurt anything past level 20. most other warframes first powers at least stun/hurt or even kill enemies at at this level (and much higher honestly) 

second power I would like to see replaced with something else, or perhaps changed so you send out waves of water but don't become the water itself, that way you can send out tidal waves and then fire of some shots or something. I find becoming the wave disorientating and a bit pointless, I want hydroid to control the sea more than become it.    

third power I like but I feel the puddle should be able to slowly move rather than just remain stationary. I have super energy efficiency on my hydroid but I still find it a bit too energy hungry. (the more people you have sucked into your puddle the more energy it takes but I find it takes quite a while to kill anything with it, considering)

fourth power, which is generally what is most used, needs to scale better, once you hit level 50-70 it stops doing much damage, even with its 'finisher' damage. in fact that's one of hydroids biggest problems he doesn't scale well. I'm used to how casting this power works, but even then I still find the tentacles will randomly go someplace else  (like the roof when your looking at a wall for example) and this needs to be tweaked as its a common complaint Ive heard that that people find casting it where they want it to be hard.

With hydroid's weak armor and current powers once you hit 50-70 he can't cope, that is my biggest gripe, I want a Pirate that I can take to end-game but currently this isn't the case, luckily pretty much all of the new frames and the reworks have been catering to that and have made some good scaling damage and frames.

what do people think of these ideas?

"I'm still really liking most of these ideas as a rework, personally I think the first power needs to be buffed, at least more accurate so it actually is guaranteed to hit (at least 3-6) amount of targets rather being a utterly vague area of effect that doesn't hurt anything past level 20. most other warframes first powers at least stun/hurt or even kill enemies at at this level (and much higher honestly)" 
Hey man, glad to hear from you again. The accuracy has been addressed, it'll still be chance based but the salvo will target enemy locations. So if they're moving they could get away but if they're hiding behind cover, slowed, knocked down or anything of the sort they are guaranteed to be hit, unless like a Loki swaps with them haha.

"second power I would like to see replaced with something else, or perhaps changed so you send out waves of water but don't become the water itself, that way you can send out tidal waves and then fire of some shots or something. I find becoming the wave disorientating and a bit pointless, I want hydroid to control the sea more than become it.    "
Tidal Surge I think is too important for his survivability by going invincible against things that would definitely kill you in the late game & I'm not looking to swap out abilities here just improve existing ones.

"third power I like but I feel the puddle should be able to slowly move rather than just remain stationary. I have super energy efficiency on my hydroid but I still find it a bit too energy hungry. (the more people you have sucked into your puddle the more energy it takes but I find it takes quite a while to kill anything with it, considering)"
Yep! Everyone seems to agree that Undertow should be able to move somehow, either by using your 2 and being able to cancel 2 while in Undertow or moving for increased energy cost.

"fourth power, which is generally what is most used, needs to scale better, once you hit level 50-70 it stops doing much damage, even with its 'finisher' damage. in fact that's one of hydroids biggest problems he doesn't scale well. I'm used to how casting this power works, but even then I still find the tentacles will randomly go someplace else  (like the roof when your looking at a wall for example) and this needs to be tweaked as its a common complaint Ive heard that that people find casting it where they want it to be hard."
While I personally manage with 4 being a good panic CC button it does seem like everyone wants it to scale because it's very capable of being lethal in the early game but falls off as soon as you pass level 30 content. I've added scaling to it that increases with power strength.

With hydroid's weak armor and current powers once you hit 50-70 he can't cope, that is my biggest gripe, I want a Pirate that I can take to end-game but currently this isn't the case, luckily pretty much all of the new frames and the reworks have been catering to that and have made some good scaling damage and frames.
Yeah, I agree that if Evasion isn't an option it would be good to raise him from 65 armour to 100 armour but any more wouldn't make too much sense for a deft frontliner I think.

8 hours ago, Meneliki said:

Hey guys,

I hate to use the term "Hydroid Main", cuz it seems silly.. but Hydroid is my favorite and most used frame. Despite this, he's got some issues. His abilities are... well...... yeah. So uhh.. about his abilities. This is how I would rework them:

Tempest  Barrage - basically leave it as is, but allow us to stack it more w/ Natural Talent. Right now, Natural Talent causes the animation to happen faster, but DOES NOT allow you to actually CAST it with any higher frequency. I.E - With or without Natural Talent, you will still cast the same number of Tempest Barrages within a 10 second period. I'd love this to change for some epic artillery style grind tactics.

Tidal Surge - Really fun ability, but lacks control. Like most warframe abilities, it does huge dmg at low levels, and none at high levels. Which is ok, it's more for the CC. What Tidal Surge REALLY needs is more control. Rather than costing me X energy to do it, and being locked into a ridiculously long surge, what if it worked more like a channeled ability and you tapped the button to start/stop the surge. You could control the duration of your surges, and do multiple in rapid succession in different direction to awesome effect. Spend energy based on distance traveled.

Undertow - Extremely fun ability but ultimately worthless without the healing augment. What if it..... *looks around*........ did DAMAGE!? I know, it's a crazy thought, but what if DROWNING was BAD for enemies? 8^O Maybe damage scaling based on the number of enemies caught in the puddle? Or ramping up damage as time went by? Or let us move while active at the cost of additional energy?

Tentacle Swarm - A visually impressive, but ultimately underwhelming farming ability with some light CC value. It appears that the overall tentacle count is set, and therefore if you add range to your Hydroid, the tentacle density suffers. I would change this ability to preserve a certain tentacle density regardless of the area covered. More range = more overall tentacles to preserve density. As it is, a range Hydroid has 1 tentacle per square kilometer which is less than useful. (OK exaggerated but u get the idea)

In addition to this, he needs more armor. Nothin' like gettin' 2 shotted by.. well, everything.

Just my thoughts. Thanks for reading.

 

{M}

 

"Tempest  Barrage - basically leave it as is, but allow us to stack it more w/ Natural Talent. Right now, Natural Talent causes the animation to happen faster, but DOES NOT allow you to actually CAST it with any higher frequency. I.E - With or without Natural Talent, you will still cast the same number of Tempest Barrages within a 10 second period. I'd love this to change for some epic artillery style grind tactics."
I think that's reasonable since you're still paying energy to repeatedly cast.
Tempest Barrage (1) - Pretty much a broadside: You can multi-cast this by clicking again while the animation is playing. Energy is still consumed every cast, simply don't have to wait the long delay.

"Tidal Surge - Really fun ability, but lacks control. Like most warframe abilities, it does huge dmg at low levels, and none at high levels. Which is ok, it's more for the CC. What Tidal Surge REALLY needs is more control. Rather than costing me X energy to do it, and being locked into a ridiculously long surge, what if it worked more like a channeled ability and you tapped the button to start/stop the surge. You could control the duration of your surges, and do multiple in rapid succession in different direction to awesome effect. Spend energy based on distance traveled."
I think that is an option but I think the steep cost is reasonable for its invulnerability + cc it provides. Although Atlas 1 does it better for less energy I think with the other additions such as opening enemies hit by the end splash  for finishers it's fair. Without the other buffs I think making it cost less is best though.

"Undertow - Extremely fun ability but ultimately worthless without the healing augment. What if it..... *looks around*........ did DAMAGE!? I know, it's a crazy thought, but what if DROWNING was BAD for enemies? 8^O Maybe damage scaling based on the number of enemies caught in the puddle? Or ramping up damage as time went by? Or let us move while active at the cost of additional energy?"
Well we do have this one. Undertow (3) - Scaling damage:  Deals 100 Finisher damage for each enemy submerged. Scales with power strength. @Somb3rBivalve

"Tentacle Swarm - A visually impressive, but ultimately underwhelming farming ability with some light CC value. It appears that the overall tentacle count is set, and therefore if you add range to your Hydroid, the tentacle density suffers. I would change this ability to preserve a certain tentacle density regardless of the area covered. More range = more overall tentacles to preserve density. As it is, a range Hydroid has 1 tentacle per square kilometer which is less than useful. (OK exaggerated but u get the idea)"
I'm certain DE wanted it more cluttered as wall but I don't think it's an option, for performance reasons. 12 enemies being ragdolled all at once is already heavy for some older PCs and laptops so while good, I think it's better to make our existing 12 tentacles better rather than make them 20+ over a larger area.

"In addition to this, he needs more armor. Nothin' like gettin' 2 shotted by.. well, everything."
I still think evasion is better for him than armour but armour would be easier to add and build around.

7 hours ago, DarkRuler2500 said:

Dude this concept is so WELL THOUGHT, it is amazing.

Please @DE consider this it is an awesome concept!

Hey, thanks man. It's compiled of the communities ideas + wishes and trying to make them fit in tandem with one another.
I'm glad you like it and I really hope DE also takes a peek in here while reworking Hydroid.

5 hours ago, Riot_Inducer said:

Tentacle Swarm is my biggest gripe with Hydroid's current implementation. Both thematically and mechanically I find it to be incredibly underwhelming. You're supposed to be summoning a goddamn kraken from the deep to lay waste to your foes, but the way tentacles just spawn randomly all over the shop makes it look more like you've summoned an army of wacky waving inflatable arm flailing tube men.

That's also not to mention the behavior of the tentacles, flopping about randomly with no guiding intelligence. This flailing detracts from the ability's CC potential as RNG can easily allow enemies to walk through the swarm unscathed. The appearance of the ability itself is also very lackluster, when a tentacle "grabs" an enemy they're just speared on the tentacle and have their ragdoll tweak out like they got bugged through a wall. In short the ability looks bad, performs poorly and feels lackluster for its theme.

I would suggest the ability create an Undertow like pool from which all the tentacles spawn, enemies are actively targeted and grabbed by the tentacles then pulled into the pool where they are dealt finisher damage. With this change enemies would be untargetable while affected by the ability, to counter this I would allow the ability to be cancelled early similar to Limbo's Cataclysm. Additionally I would tweak the numbers of the ability as such: Reduce the radius to 6/8/10/12 m, Change the tentacle's finisher damage to 175 + 5% of the enemy's max health (affected by power strength) per second. 

With these changes I feel Tentacle Swarm would be visually cleaner and more impressive/intimidating, additionally the change to its damage formula would allow it to scale into later game content.  

The visuals haven't been addressed since that's not really something me or many of the people here are able to show, yeah the looks of his 4 is pretty dated.
The rest has mostly been addressed without changing it into a different ability. Even scaling is now on the list.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

I like the water pollution ability the best. Status immunity would make Hydroid into a god. As far as armor... I never thought he needed it... Needs more health or shields though.

His 1 is my favorite of his abilities

I wish his two would just turn him into water, reducing incoming damage like shatter shield and reduce his speed like ivara prowl, as well as making him immune to lazer barriers. Give it a duration and while in this form... His abilities become 25% more efficient.

His 3, love the ideas

His 4... How bout giving a small percentage that the krakens head surfaces and devours enemies doin stupid amounts of damage and increasing crit chance of hydroid and all allies in range for a few seconds.

 

All of these ideas u have are epic in their own right. Cant wait to get the final product!

Edited July 14, 2017 by (PS4)big_eviljak

[Navarc]

8 hours ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

I like the water pollution ability the best. Status immunity would make Hydroid into a god. As far as armor... I never thought he needed it... Needs more health or shields though.

His 1 is my favorite of his abilities

I wish his two would just turn him into water, reducing incoming damage like shatter shield and reduce his speed like ivara prowl, as well as making him immune to lazer barriers. Give it a duration and while in this form... His abilities become 25% more efficient.

His 3, love the ideas

His 4... How bout giving a small percentage that the krakens head surfaces and devours enemies doin stupid amounts of damage and increasing crit chance of hydroid and all allies in range for a few seconds.

 

All of these ideas u have are epic in their own right. Cant wait to get the final product!

Hey man, thanks for the huge support. I think the passive is pretty powerful as well. 

Although we're not looking to swap out his abilities like Tidal Surge in this thread, I really would prefer to improve it rather than turn it into Nyx Absorb.
I'm not so sure if Hydroid is really a buffing warframe with that kraken but could you describe how that would work?