Should Ancients be nerfed?

[TankHunter678]

On 5/11/2017 at 9:21 PM, SilvaDreams said:

1) They are in a straight line not heat seeking, move more. zig-zag, roll.. (People are horrible about standing in one spot and shooting)

I've been hooked around corners, through walls, during bullet jumps, during rolls, and the only times I have never been hooked is when I am locked in certain animations, using a heavy weapon that grants knockdown immunity during use, or in the safety of a limbo/frost bubble.

 

Their hooks are hitscan with a delay before they reel you in. If at the point of cast you are an applicable target they will get you unless you have knockdown immunity. That is my experience.

[NeithanDiniem]

42 minutes ago, TankHunter678 said:

I've been hooked around corners, through walls, during bullet jumps, during rolls, and the only times I have never been hooked is when I am locked in certain animations, using a heavy weapon that grants knockdown immunity during use, or in the safety of a limbo/frost bubble.

 

Their hooks are hitscan with a delay before they reel you in. If at the point of cast you are an applicable target they will get you unless you have knockdown immunity. That is my experience.

If they were hitscan then you could not dodge them, which is the case many people have experienced. Your first observations there then show that you have a flaw with your reasoning. The reason why you can be targeted around corners and through walls is due to an unfortunate but required flaw with the animation. The AI triggers the animation for the hook, then once it hits the right time in that animation it fires the hook out aimed at its original target. In the time between the start and the firing, you likely moved. Since it already had you as the intended target for the shot, it managed to fire the shot even though it shouldn't have been blocked by terrain or the shot passes through solid objects. While I feel DE can improve the detection of solid objects and the hook to reduce this from happening, it shooting at an angle towards you or even behind itself and hitting you is required due to the way the animation works. Making the enemy turn towards you would make for some nasty floaty animations that would look horrible, so its the lesser of two evils, pretty much. Note though that latency can also play a role in this in making it happen more often, so Hosts should see it less often than clients. Being hooked while rolling, in a bullet jump, or any other dodge would inform you of the mechanic of the hook. It has a hitbox in that if you are in range of the hook after it was aimed towards its target and fired, it will jump and link to you to prevent the hook from having to be perfectly accurate. If you are far enough away however, the hook will instead proceed onwards and "miss." It could hit someone else if the hitbox collide with them or them with it, so it may not hit the intended target, but hit something none the less. In that case the bullet jump, dodge, and roll still work but only as a means to get away faster rather than an immunity/I-frames. If you don't manage to get far enough away from the hook's hitbox, it still snags you and down you go.

Edited May 14, 2017 by NeithanDiniem

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

No, I often fall asleep in Infested survivals. Get Health Conversion and Rapid Resilience if you want to fall asleep too. This is rare for me to say, but Infested and Grineer need more challenging units. Currently, I only bleed out in survivals because of a few things (A) I fell asleep (B) I had to revive a teammate that just sat in the toxin or fire on the ground and (C) I foolishly decide to Rambo 5 Nullifiers at once while having only a third of my health left; there's always a Bombard or one of those red Crewmen hanging out in the bubble shooting the doodoo out of you. 

I almost forgot (D) hacking terminal and teammates decide not to defend me.

[TankHunter678]

Your explanation basically solidify my thoughts that it is hitscan. The only cases I have personally seen which I could interpret as a dodge occurring involved the hooker being slowed by a snowglobe or other slow effect. At which point once they are locked in the cast if they remained slowed then the target can just walk out of where they are "aiming" and simply not get registered. Thus it was dodged.

Otherwise every case would be that if it was a true projectile it should not be difficult to dodge at all once you see them setting up for it. Instead of always seeing someone get dragged off. Also it should not be capable of latching onto someone through solid terrain, or adjust to seek a high speed target. Otherwise that is just taking counterplay out of the players hands.

 

I personally would much rather that the hooking mobs get a much faster recovery time to go with it being made into a true projectile you can actually dodge with well timed maneuvers. Rather then them spinning in place to track you with an extended cable, or the cable going the complete opposite direction as it seeks you because god damn it the game is determined to have you suffer from that hook.

[Acos]

I think they're fine. They require you to focus on them before you can just obliterate everything else. I do think the hook looks janky as hell and needs an actual animation instead of this place holder they've had for over a year now. 

[Kimimoto]

On 5/11/2017 at 6:21 PM, Sniper2458 said:

Ancient healers and all other versions of Ancient healers should be nerfed?

No, they're the weakest faction. If you're having problems with the hooks then work on constantly moving/rolling when you see one rearing up to hook.

[CeePee]

I think ancients should be buffed back to their original form, having your sentinel instantly explode when gently scraping a toxic ancient was fun

[Valiant]

On 12/05/2017 at 1:01 AM, Drazhar14 said:

Toxic ancients have already been nerfed. They used to leave behind poison clouds and it was much more deadly. Same with Healing ancients, multiple of them used to stack their damage resistance. Now I believe it doesn't stack with other healing ancients any more. What needs to be nerfed are groups of energy drain eximus infested...

Yeah they both used to be vastly more annoying.

But one issue with them still remains and that is sometimes the number and frequency in which they spawn. I might have been satisfied just with that alteration back then too.

Edited May 14, 2017 by Naith

[Evanescent]

They are pretty annoying. 

Their hooks can pull you through walls, mid parkour, which I feel shouldn't be a thing.

But you can block them, and roll when they telegraph their hook to avoid it.

[Kronxito]

On 2017-5-11 at 11:21 PM, Sniper2458 said:

I'm just curios to see if anyone else thinks the Ancient healers and all other versions of Ancient healers should be nerfed? I personally do, i'm trying to get the last part for Octavia (drop chance is around 20% but i've done 9 runs and still haven't got it smh.) and to get it you have to do a infested survival which i love. But i can only do it once before i take a break because these damn Ancient healers and other forms of it are so annoying.

First of all their hooks are heat seeking just like bombards so they have around 90% accuracy so you're very likely to be hooked and raped by everything that you just got dragged into.

Second of all there seems to be a very high range of their hook, for example i was across a big room and i was still hooked.

Third of all they can hook you even if they are laying down on the ground due to being knocked off their feet.

And Fourth of all if they shoot their hook at you and you go to another room before you even get hit by it, it can still hook you and bring you to them. I think they should be nerfed to a certain extent so you're not for sure going to be raped if you get hooked by one.

No. They are fine as they are now.

I am so tired of crying people in this forum..... 

[fatpig84]

Constitution or stay in Stealth or use abilities that resist KB.
Anyway use Oberon and just rad proc the hell out of them, their abilities all shut down :)

[(PSN)HaterReplicator]

Have melee weapon out, and hold the block key/button. Ancients will not hook and pull you if you do this.

The only real Ancient variant I have an issue with is the Toxic. Have a Toxic Ancient(lvl50+), sneak up to and breath on you, and kiss your Sentinal good bye as your Warframe(except Inaros, Chroma, Nidus) goes down. Toxic Ancients can burn in Hell.

[achromos]

The only issue I really have with them is Ancient Disruptors/Healers and their Aura's, I really wish the auras and where they originate from were more obvious so that EVERYONE would target them with a bit more priority.  They aren't too bad if at a glance you can target them and even newbies know 'hey, let's focus on this one.'  The major part of the issue I have is in the middle of a 50+ Infested pileup it gets 'mildly' complicated.

[Dark_Chroma_Prime]

they shouldnt be nerfed, without or with a weaker version of them the infested would become the absolute weakest fraction in warframe and the challenging thing against infested will be lost