Question about riven disposition

[BlinkandDie]

If I get a riven for let's say opticor. The riven disposition is pretty good, so the mod will roll better stats than usual. 

Now, if the opticor becomes very popular, can the riven disposition decrease? And will it downgrade existing mods? 

If the mod keeps its godlike stats, will the best weapons will be locked away to a select few players with the best rivens? 

Edited July 30, 2017 by BlinkandDie

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

Riven disposition is dynamic, and existing rivens are affected by changes in disposition.

However, DE is proving to be very slow in changing weapon disposition, and rarely by more than 1-2 tiers.

[BaIthazar]

a weapons popularity does not effect the disposition.

Edited July 30, 2017 by BaIthazar

[-N7-Leonhart]

7 minutes ago, BaIthazar said:

a weapons popularity does not effect the disposition.

Haha, of course it does. However,  that's not a process that will take place over night. Thus far, we've seen popularity affecting weapons only when Rivens were first released. However I can also add that the Meta hasn't changed much at all since then, so it makes sense that the Dispositions are relatively unchanged.

20 minutes ago, BlinkandDie said:

If I get a riven for let's say opticor. The riven disposition is pretty good, so the mod will roll better stats than usual. 

Now, if the opticor becomes very popular, can the riven disposition decrease? And will it downgrade existing mods? 

If the mod keeps its godlike stats, will the best weapons will be locked away to a select few players with the best rivens? 

It may happen if Opticor really does become Meta, but it certainly won't happen in like the next 6 months.

[RyuhoTheDragon]

14 minutes ago, BaIthazar said:

a weapons popularity does not effect the disposition.

That is exactly what changes the disposition. The current disposition are based on overall popularity. And stats play a minor role on that choice too.

And to answer the op yes it can happen to any riven to get stat decreases and increases at any time.

Usually those changes are announced on patch notes.

Edited July 30, 2017 by RyuhoTheDragon

[BaIthazar]

stronger weapons have lower disposition, weaker weapons have higher disposition..

just because a weapon is liked by the community doesn't make it any more OP or less trash than it is, thus the disposition will not change, thus disposition is not affected by popularity.

if a weapons sudden rise in popularity reveals that it was secretly a diamond in the rough deserving of a lower disposition, then it's still the weapons own strengths or weaknesses calling for the disposition to be changed, not the popularity

That is exactly what changes the disposition. The current disposition are based on overall popularity. And stats play a minor role on that choice too.

you are confusing popularity with meta.
the lower disposition weapons were popular because they were strong.
they didn't have said disposition because they were popular

Edited July 30, 2017 by BaIthazar

[RyuhoTheDragon]

6 minutes ago, BaIthazar said:

stronger weapons have lower disposition, weaker weapons have higher disposition..

just because a weapon is liked by the community doesn't make it any more OP or less trash than it is, thus the disposition will not change, thus disposition is not affected by popularity

The randomized stats for Riven mods are affected by a variable known as Disposition, a modifier that collates the usage popularity of a given weapon across the entire player base, and then adjusts the resulting random stats to better fit that weapon.

This is taken from wiki based on de's original post about rivens.

I'm not the one confused here. Meta was never used as a measure for rivens overall popularity was.

Edited July 30, 2017 by RyuhoTheDragon

[Nez-Kal]

5 minutes ago, BaIthazar said:

stronger weapons have lower disposition, weaker weapons have higher disposition..

just because a weapon is liked by the community doesn't make it any more OP or less trash than it is, thus the disposition will not change, thus disposition is not affected by popularity.

Jat Kittag

Disposition: ....2

 

........Need I say more?

[BaIthazar]

Just now, Tangent-Valley said:

Jat Kittag

Disposition: ....2

 

........Need I say more?

yes, please do, as I don't see your point

[BaIthazar]

4 minutes ago, RyuhoTheDragon said:

The randomized stats for Riven mods are affected by a variable known as Disposition, a modifier that collates the usage popularity of a given weapon across the entire player base, and then adjusts the resulting random stats to better fit that weapon.

This is taken from wiki based on de's original post about rivens

regardless of what this might suggest, a weapons disposition isn't changed by some program.
it's changed by an employee behind a desk tweaking a 4 to a 3 in code or something.

think of the worst weapon you can think of, if it truly is a terrible weapon it will have a disposition of 5..
if suddenly the entire player base started using it, the disposition won't change..
because despite its sudden increase in use... it would still be a terrible weapon

[Nez-Kal]

Jat Kittag is a weapon that is nowhere near "Meta" play. It's big deal is it's higher damage, and 25% Status.....however...

"Higher Damage" does not go very far into "Endgame" play, and it's slower strikes make it less useful as a Status Melee compared to the many others that equal or excel it's base status, AND strike faster.

In terms of "Meta" and "Endgame", this poor weapon falls just a little too short to truly make it worth dragging into any mission compared to many others....

 

 

.....However, that said...The Jat Kittag is a REALLY fun weapon, and used by a lot of players on Star Chart missions and such because of this.

So......yeah.....The Jat's Popularity is what made its Disposition so tiny.

 

(PS: It seemed like you were arguing that Popularity did not dictate Disposition, but I may have been originally mistaken on that.)

[BaIthazar]

8 minutes ago, Tangent-Valley said:

-snip-

I was arguing that a weapons strength is what dictates its disposition.. and not its popularity.
which is somewhat the case..

strong weapons get low disposition and just happen to be popular (because they're strong)
in the end it's still the weapon being weak or powerfull that's dictating the disposition..

think about it.
if the entire playerbase suddenly stopped using the Tigris Prime, would DE increase its disposition?
no... because it's still one of the strongest weapons in the game..
popularity doesnt change that

 

Edited July 30, 2017 by BaIthazar

[RyuhoTheDragon]

1 minute ago, BaIthazar said:

I was arguing that a weapons strength is what dictates its disp.. and not its popularity.
which is somewhat the case..

strong weapons get low disposition and just happen to be popular (because they're strong)

That's just avoiding the point. They are popular because they are strong or usefull. That being said the measure DE uses for rivens is overall popularity not stats.

That is why new weapons are always neutral at first so they can be arranged later on. If stats where the only choice they would come already with the final disposition

[BlinkandDie]

38 minutes ago, BaIthazar said:

a weapons popularity does not effect the disposition.

 

[BlinkandDie]

6 minutes ago, BaIthazar said:

I was arguing that a weapons strength is what dictates its disposition.. and not its popularity. 

Doesn't seem so. 

[BaIthazar]

6 minutes ago, RyuhoTheDragon said:

That's just avoiding the point. They are popular because they are strong or usefull. That being said the measure DE uses for rivens is overall popularity not stats.

That is why new weapons are always neutral at first so they can be arranged later on. If stats where the only choice they would come already with the final disposition

 

2 minutes ago, BlinkandDie said:

Doesn't seem so. 

I refer back to my comment towards Tangent-Valley:

Imagine the Tigris Prime suddenly dropping in use/popularity..
I don't see that disposition changing even a single dot

[BlinkandDie]

Just now, BaIthazar said:

 

I refer back to my comment towards Tangent-Valley:

Imagine the Tigris Prime suddenly dropping in use/popularity..
I don't see that disposition changing even a single dot

Citation? 

[RyuhoTheDragon]

Just now, BaIthazar said:

 

I refer back to my comment towards Tangent-Valley:

Imagine the Tigris Prime suddenly dropping in use/popularity..
I don't see that disposition changing even a single dot

Yet. Aklex and vulkar did get changed. Its not a instant change it takes time just because everyone stops using it doesnt mean the popularity will drop to 0 in a day

[Xion]

4 minutes ago, BlinkandDie said:

Citation? 

 

3 minutes ago, RyuhoTheDragon said:

Yet. Aklex and vulkar did get changed. Its not a instant change it takes time just because everyone stops using it doesnt mean the popularity will drop to 0 in a day

To his credit, Tonkor and Simulor both got nerfed to the point that hardly anyone uses them anymore and they're still at a Faint disposition. DE is more quick to nerf the dispositions than they are to buff them. That being said, DE modifies disposition based on popularity, that's why we have weapons like Dragon Nikana with 5/5 disposition even though its stats are on par with weapons with lower disposition, for example the Dual Kamas Prime which has a disposition of 2/5.

[BlinkandDie]

2 minutes ago, Xionyde134 said:

 

To his credit, Tonkor and Simulor both got nerfed to the point that hardly anyone uses them anymore and they're still at a Faint disposition. DE is more quick to nerf the dispositions than they are to buff them. That being said, DE modifies disposition based on popularity, that's why we have weapons like Dragon Nikana with 5/5 disposition even though its stats are on par with weapons with lower disposition, for example the Dual Kamas Prime which has a disposition of 2/5.

Fair point, I do think simulor and tonkor are special case weapons though. They did dominate the game prior nerf. 

Edited July 30, 2017 by BlinkandDie

[RyuhoTheDragon]

10 minutes ago, Xionyde134 said:

 

To his credit, Tonkor and Simulor both got nerfed to the point that hardly anyone uses them anymore and they're still at a Faint disposition. DE is more quick to nerf the dispositions than they are to buff them. That being said, DE modifies disposition based on popularity, that's why we have weapons like Dragon Nikana with 5/5 disposition even though its stats are on par with weapons with lower disposition, for example the Dual Kamas Prime which has a disposition of 2/5.

The whole point being that it is popularity. Whoever slow de works on those changes does not alter that. Also we don't know how the popularity algorithm works, it could very well be the case that just because a weapon stops being used completely it just takes time for its popularity to drop because it still has registered a high usage time. And i don't think anyone is surprised we get more nerfs then buffs in wf anymore.

Edited July 30, 2017 by RyuhoTheDragon

[redeyedtreefrog]

39 minutes ago, BaIthazar said:

a weapons popularity does not effect the disposition.

A weapon's popularity does indeed affect the disposition. It's been stated by DE multiple times that rivens are supposed to bring attention/new life to UNDERUSED (read: unpopular) weapons. It's true that weapons' riven dispositions are likely adjusted by a DE developer or team of DE developers, but to believe that popularity has nothing to do with it is ignorant at best.

To give an example of WHY popularity must affect these rivens, I will use spira. Without a riven, spira is an incredibly lackluster secondary. True, it has decent crit stats, but so do many other pistols currently existing. And many of those pistols have higher dispositions than spira's 1-pip. Reasoning: spira is the most-used throwing secondary by a landslide. 

To answer the actual question, I cannot imagine DE allowing a riven with opticor's high disposition to persist once it becomes meta; even without a riven for it my opticor is top-tier, so I'd assume that eventually the disposition will be lowered. However, this isn't a thing that happens overnight; partly, it's likely DE is waiting for opticor use to stabilize; it just got buffed and tweaked like 5 times in a row, so of course people are picking it up to judge wether it's worth using now or not. So in a month or so, I'd expect for opticor's disposition to change, or for opticor usage to die down again. I'm leaning towards it changing, but there are a number of people who swear by certain existing meta weapons and who will likely just go back to those weapons. And if opticor's disposition DOES change, the likelihood of rivens keeping their previous stats is incredibly low. It promotes stagnation, because "oh this weapon CAN'T get buffed or recieve an augment, because remember that time when it had a 5-pip disposition? that would make it too overpowered" even if only a handful of those rivens exist anymore. Or, they do it anyways, and now a select group is better equipped to handle new end-game content than others. All toxic.

[BaIthazar]

I still believe a weapons strength is a bigger factor in disposition than popularity but I'll concede

Edited July 30, 2017 by BaIthazar