Ash you know...

[Xaentrick]

I rather like the ideas in your rework, especially a stance ult. As ash deserves one more than any as he was the first frame with a weapon that came as part of the frame. 

However I think some feedback is needed. 

The first ability shared the same sound effects as nyx's psychic bolts for the longest of time. Not to mention the ability acts almost the same only bleed instead of radiation. Throwing it in a straight line is a good idea. However at being an assassin like frame would have something for everyone. What you described would be wonderful, but I feel an ivara like wheel would be good to accompany it. One could be a puncture based projectile, another a slash based, an impact based one. The fourth could deal no damage but could be used in combination with another ability. Since the final one would do no damage, it would not cost any energy. More to come on that.

Smoke screen I like, no complaints there. 

Teleport, I like the ideas with it. Though I think we could work in a semi free teleport into it. That fourth item on the wheel from his first ability could act as a marker. When casting teleport with no target selected, he would instead teleport to this marker. 

Only thing with bladestorm I can complain about are the clones. As they are not part of the original bladestorm. They were put in to help speed up the killing of his marked targets. Instead of them targeting enemies around your target. Why not have them attack the same target, they could almost be an after image of him when attacking his target. 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

8 hours ago, VojnikFrost said:

 

He kills better with aoe ~ and i don't mean like trying to but actually killing stuff.

The point of the rework was to make him clunky and they did the same to allmost every frame back then. They gave mesa a cyrcle and let her aim, broke saryn sadly (that one was a fail bc they actually screwed up the core mechanic, the concept is solid tho), ruined mags greedy pull strategy by adding LoS, nerfed both mirrages arsenal and her shadow cabinet and gave ash marks while beein rather kind concerning the mods he's become able to use, especially with him beein a melee frame. Point was to give frames a kit that synergices with but doesn't dominate using wespons, to kill p4tw which was the meta at that time. Sure thing are you going to get outplayed in lower levels because he plays like that but every time i want to stick around longer, every time i play a sortie and don't need a specific frame, those are the times i pick ash over other frames, simply because he doesn't fall off until the point enemys exceed like 40-160k red health, not true health or anything, just health. What's a lot for AOE you can set while playing gun or preferably melee.

[Nazrethim]

12 hours ago, Xaentrick said:

I rather like the ideas in your rework, especially a stance ult. As ash deserves one more than any as he was the first frame with a weapon that came as part of the frame. 

However I think some feedback is needed. 

Thank you.

12 hours ago, Xaentrick said:

The first ability shared the same sound effects as nyx's psychic bolts for the longest of time. Not to mention the ability acts almost the same only bleed instead of radiation. Throwing it in a straight line is a good idea. However at being an assassin like frame would have something for everyone. What you described would be wonderful, but I feel an ivara like wheel would be good to accompany it. One could be a puncture based projectile, another a slash based, an impact based one. The fourth could deal no damage but could be used in combination with another ability. Since the final one would do no damage, it would not cost any energy. More to come on that.

I originally intended that, but then I realised it wouldn't quite fit. Why? simple, look at Ivara and Vauban, they aren't warrior frames, they are more like casters and offer  a more relaxed playstyle. This rework is pointed towards fast pace action and stealth. I also draw inspiration from one of the best ninja games ever made: Mark of the Ninja, in which you have a varied array of tools, but you can't carry them all to missions so you need to choose the right equipment for the right job beforehand. This is also why every ability has 2 mutually exclusive augments, to give players choice.... If the ability can do everything, why use augments at all? unless the ability itself is so useless the aug is mandatory, or you run into the problem of one or two of the variants being good and the others never used unles they can cheese certain mechanics.

12 hours ago, Xaentrick said:

Teleport, I like the ideas with it. Though I think we could work in a semi free teleport into it. That fourth item on the wheel from his first ability could act as a marker. When casting teleport with no target selected, he would instead teleport to this marker. 

Sounds like an interesting idea, but I can't figure out a way to make it work within the context of this rework. Maybe you should make your own rework with it, with abilities tailored more towards elaborate planning.

12 hours ago, Xaentrick said:

Only thing with bladestorm I can complain about are the clones. As they are not part of the original bladestorm. They were put in to help speed up the killing of his marked targets. Instead of them targeting enemies around your target. Why not have them attack the same target, they could almost be an after image of him when attacking his target. 

The point of the clones is to assist in multi killing, as the wristblades by themselves would already have tremendous damage (kinda like every melee finisher honestly).  These are no different. Also, some people like clones helping (for me they are more of a mechanical convenience, as they could be replaced by a new animation that damages nearby enemies like a shadow nova or something)

[Nazrethim]

5 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

He kills better with aoe ~ and i don't mean like trying to but actually killing stuff.

Yeah, with all your varied builds right? not like, a super specific arcane/focus/statstack reliant and Riven powered one, right?

5 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

gave ash marks while beein rather kind concerning the mods he's become able to use, especially with him beein a melee frame.

There's so much bullsh*t in your comments that you could make a whole new bull out of the sh*t.

They pretty much made BS unusable outside of specific infinite energy builds (that include freaking rivens!), and made another stat (range) pointless. "kind concerning mods" ? yea right.

5 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Point was to give frames a kit that synergices

Which they didn't with Ash, FT and BS overlap with the former being far superior, they added a cost reduction for invisibility (not just Smoke Screen) but that 30% cost reduction doesn't make up for a 200-800% increase in default cost. And SS isn't even paused during BS. And also makes the whole "keeping the clipshow because it's cool" pointless because you don't get to see cool executions, just a blob of smoke humping enemies.

5 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

to kill p4tw which was the meta at that time.

Which, as this rework that reuses existing assets proves, could be done without butchering a frame and making it redundant to have in your team.

5 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Sure thing are you going to get outplayed in lower levels because he plays like that but every time i want to stick around longer, every time i play a sortie and don't need a specific frame, those are the times i pick ash over other frames, simply because he doesn't fall off until the point enemys exceed like 40-160k red health, not true health or anything, just health. What's a lot for AOE you can set while playing gun or preferably melee.

Yeah sure, because being goodish at levels the game isn't balanced around makes up for being redundant to have around on the content most players play on a regular bases. And it's not really an AoE, that implies it attacks multiple enemies at a time, it's just a clipshow version of Fatal Teleport, except Fatal Teleport is superior. It's just an energy sink for most stuff.

You are complacent:

 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

Yeah, with all your varied builds right? not like, a super specific arcane/focus/statstack reliant and Riven powered one, right?

 

In contrary to any other frame, who are all indepent of super specific stats for super specific builds, am i right? Ash the frickin exceptation.

In fact, none of ash's required stats specify his actuall build, nor are they in any way contradictive to his melee weapon. They're somewhat of an ideal for melee even while it acts as a sub function for Ash who is still able to go in any other direction with his build by just maintaining a basic level of power management (which is/was present by the time you used rage and zenruki), what actually meets your goal. That he actually profits from arcanes/fokus not so much/stackstack(combo?) And Rivens can only be seen as an asset at the point his arsenal and builds can profit from it too.

 

A stance ultimate on the other side requires one to specify a frames and weapons build much more then it is the case now by NOT allowing combo mods, rivens, auguments, by disabeling auras and plates, banning specific mods like CL and by enforcing specific stats for specific results.... That's a rather strange argument to start with while presenting that kind of a rework ya know.

 

Oh and, you beein deaf and blind towards Argumentation doesn't make it vanish, nor less relevant. He has a whole lotta freedom on his hands allready, much more then any other frame OR the version you're tring to promote here just by beein what he is, beein rather viable at that. You miming the rebel (or the spoiled child? I mean it IS designed around YOUR overspecific build) definitly doesn't change that.

 

All that rework of yours would do is making him spammy and o.P. while putting everything you've spoken negatively about into his kit. Notice the irony?

Edited September 26, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Nazrethim]

3 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

In contrary to any other frame, who are all indepent of super specific stats for super specific builds, am i right? Ash the frickin exceptation.

In fact, none of ash's required stats specify his actuall build, nor are they in any way contradictive to his melee weapon. They're somewhat of an ideal for melee even while it acts as a sub function for Ash who is still able to go in any other direction with his build by just maintaining a basic level of power management (which is/was present by the time you used rage and zenruki), what actually meets your goal. That he actually profits from arcanes/fokus not so much/stackstack(combo?) And Rivens can only be seen as an asset at the point his arsenal and builds can profit from it too.

I don't call into question that arcanes and focus help. I'm calling out that they are required for BS to not be useless, by comparison to the rest of Ash's kit.

3 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

A stance ultimate on the other side requires one to specify a frames and weapons build much more then it is the case now by NOT allowing combo mods, rivens, auguments, by disabeling auras and plates, banning specific mods like CL and by enforcing specific stats for specific results.... That's a rather strange argument to start with while presenting that kind of a rework ya know.

Actually, this rework would allow a lot of build diversity, since it's designed around A) working at default values and B) working in some way with all stats. Compare that to failstorm which requires Rivens, Arcanes, Efficiency stacking and a soon-to-be-removed focus passive to be useful in any meaningful way. It's less "banning stuff" and more "giving choice of what to mod for".

3 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Oh and, you beein deaf and blind towards Argumentation doesn't make it vanish, nor less relevant. He has a whole lotta freedom on his hands allready, much more then any other frame OR the version you're tring to promote here just by beein what he is, beein rather viable at that. You miming the rebel (or the spoiled child? I mean it IS designed around YOUR overspecific build) definitly doesn't change that.

"default stats" is a template from which you can build. I in fact have at least 5 different builds that I use on a whim or when the mission in question demands it (I even built a second Ash Prime just so I can assign each build it's own cosmetic setup!). YOU are the one who claims something is "good" because with an overspecific build it works (while not working at all outside of it). This rework offers much more freedom than what we currently have, while making Ash stand out more on his own (by upgrading the frankly outdated abilities) and keeping his theme.

3 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

All that rework of yours would do is making him spammy and o.P. while putting everything you've spoken negatively about into his kit. Notice the irony?

So let's see, I say that current Ash has minor issues that weren't fixed with the revisit, some other minor issues added with the revisit, a generic invisibility ability that doesn't have any special to it AND a pointless "ultimate" that demands overspecific build just to make it barely useful (if still outperformed by the frame's other abilities at all levels). This rework fixes the minor issues across the board, gives him a proper ultimate ability, makes it work as a whole with varied builds and offers lots of tactical options, makes Augments not only viable but special, makes Ash actually good at Conclave without being overpowered and I did so in a way that is actually player AND Dev friendly (abilities are easy to use but leave room for skill development, and I merely rearranged assets devs already have in a more creative way so it would be easier for them to apply).

It will be spammy and op? probably, depends, if Efficiency is involved, most likely, though I made it very clear that I intend with this rework to kick Fleeting Expertise in the D to discourage the "one stat to rule them all" situation Effi is right now. Your build will probably be spammy and op as hell, but other builds will become very viable alternatives too. In the end you wouldn't be affected much, other than having to learn to play again (which probably will take you less than an hour), so I more and more believe you either have a personal grudge with me or you just want to see Ash continue in the dirt, or you are just completely lost in your metabubble to understand.

[Endless_Destruction]

On 9/13/2017 at 9:27 AM, Nazrethim said:

Hello eveyone. Nazrethim strikes again!

Hello there. Nice rework, but I have a few misgivings.

This is a rework focused on fast pace combat and high mobility.

The principles of this rework are to fix Ash's issues with these in mind:

+Must be interactive

+Clipshow stays but it's entirely optional

+Conclave balanced

+Must keep Ash's theme:

"Ash is lethal and elusive, but his effects on the battlefield can be felt by all"

+Must not require development of new assets on DE's part, it's is merely a re-arrangement of currently existing assets

 

Note to those who follow my concepts: I didn't change much. Just tweaked a few effects that were pointed out to me were too good, tweaked some mechanics and added augments and augment set bonus.

Thanks to @Azamagon for the Shuriken and Fatal Teleport better augment ideas.

 

Ash rework:

Passive: Hemorrhage

Increases Bleed damage by 20% and Duration by 50%

Augment (exilus): Blood Splatter

Bleed damage increased by 260% and Duration reduced by 50%. Replaces Hemorrhage's standard effect. Mutually exclusive with Relentless Assassin

 

Passive: Mark of the Assassin.

While aiming, gliding or latching, Ash marks enemies. Marked enemies take 20% extra Finisher and Bleed damage. Mark lasts 4s and uses no energy. Enemies marked are highlighted on the radar. 50m range.

Please clarify, does it ADD 20% finisher damage to weapon, or AMPLIFY 20% finisher damage already present? I ask, because the second case would be a lot less useful. When aiming/aim gliding/wall latching, one is not likely to take advantage of the melee bonus, preferring to instead just shoot the enemy. Also, one still has to actually execute the finisher, requiring the use of Blade Storm or Fatal Teleport or being in stealth (in which case why break stealth by attacking in the first place) to open up the target, then going through a rather clunky, single target animation. I got the idea that the goal of this was a sort of "energy efficient/neutral" iteration of the current blade storm marking mechanic, whose entire point is to get a ton of enemies marked at once, but this version doesn't allow the user to take advantage of the mark because of its single target nature and short duration. Maybe you were aiming for synergy with Overdrive Fatal Teleport, but by the time you finish marking enough enemies to make the energy cost worth it, you've already expired the first few marks you created.

I'd suggest a different version of this entirely, or a massive boost in mark duration, possibly at a cost to power.

Augment (exilus): Relentless Assassin

Killing marked enemies with a Finisher attack or Ash's abilities grants him 10 energy (5 for Teleport's Hold function). Mutually exclusive with Blood Splatter.

 

Shuriken:

Ash throws a single non-guided Shuriken that deals heavy Slash damage and applies a Bleed proc. If target is Unalerted it deals its total damage (shuriken+bleed) instantly as Finisher damage (augmented versions have the same mechanic). Marked enemies have their Armor or Shields stripped by 50%. Shuriken has 3.5 Punch Trough to it and staggers all enemies hit

Augment: Seeking Shuriken

Keeps the main Shuriken, but also adds up to 4 smaller shuriken. These smaller shuriken home in on enemies, but have no punchthrough and only deals ~35% of the main Shuriken's damage. Armor/shield-reduction is 35% and they as well also stagger enemies.

35% each, or if every shuriken hits?

Augment:  Razorwind Shuriken

The Shuriken now also has emits razorsharp ash-winds from its blades (basicly adding a flat "aura" on it, increasing its cutting width quite a bit. Note that only the main physical part of the Shuriken handles the punchthrough, so you can "abuse" this to cut enemies around corners without losing punchthrough values etc). Enemies struck by the Shuriken or the ash-winds suffer all the basic effects (damage, bleed, armor/shield-removal, stagger etc), but are now also blinded for 3 seconds. The flight of the shuriken is also increased by 50%.

It seems like you're trying to do a lot with Shuriken, and cramming what you couldn't into the main ability into the augments. First, define "heavy" damage. If it has no scaling component, then no matter what, it will fall off pretty fast. Second, your first augment suggestion makes me a little bit leery-it's an Ash-ified Psychic Bolts, and those have horrible homing capability, more likely to whack the wall than anything else. Third, your second augment blinding the enemy is a bit much. You already turned a dinky projectile into a mini slash zenistar, why multiply its damage by 8? That function on a throwing star makes no sense. Fourth, why did you limit the armor stripping to marked enemies? Make it so that a "hipfired" first ability also has armor reduction. Why would the attributes of your star change with your zoom level? Also, I hope it is 50% flat, not 50% scaling, then 25%, then 12.5%, etc.

Smoke Screen:

Ash creates a cloud of smoke at his feet that lasts for 12s (base duration at max ability lvl). Ash is invisible while inside the cloud and for 8s after leaving the cloud. Acts as a LoS blocker for enemies, and enemies inside the cloud and for 3s after leaving it suffer -30% Accuracy debuff (affected by Strength). Cloud radius is 3m. Can be recasted (only 1 cloud can be active at any given time though)

Smoke Shadow: Allies who enter/pass trough the cloud also gain invisibility while inside it and for 8s after leaving the cloud. Mutually exclusive with Choking Gas

Choking Gas: Enemies inside the cloud are stunned for 2s and open to finisher attacks. They also take a small amount of Gas damage while inside the cloud and for 4s after leaving it. Mutually exclusive with Smoke Shadow.

I like this. I wish the cloud would have a longer duration, so that ash can refresh his invisibility without recasting more than twice, and better set up an area denial/ally safe zone.

Fatal Teleport:

Normal: Ash teleports to the target location (default range 35m), staggering and opening nearby (3m radius) enemies to Finisher attacks. Cost 20 energy.

Overdrive: after holding the ability (fixed at 1s with automatic release) Ash goes into a rampage, teleporting and attacking all marked enemies with his currently equiped melee weapon (essentially current blade storm) for 5 energy (10 if Blade Storm Stance is active) per enemy

Augment: Gruesome Execution

Killing an enemy with a Finisher attack shocks nearby enemies, staggering them and opening them to Finisher attack. Killing a second enemy will terrify nearby enemies causing them to flee for 2s.

Augment: Deadly Blur

Replaces Fatal Teleport Overdrive animations with blurred dash-teleports, vastly increasing the execution speed. (While in Blade Storm mode phantom blurrs will join in to attack nearby enemies too). Also increases the execution speed of all Finisher animations by 100%

Again, I don't think tying powers to your idea of marking is a good idea. Marking enough targets to make the energy cost worth it is going to be very difficult. Also, energy isn't draining per mark, so you have no way of knowing how many of your marked targets you can take out before that bombard you thought you could get but didn't screws you. I know that the arithmetic is easy to perform, but this is a game where a moment's hesitation equals death, and instant feedback like no energy left is a much better than going through the multiplication in your head. Also, why the increased energy for blade storm? Seems very anti-synergy to me. Next, we have the two-step finisher process, which to avoid is why so many ash players like fatal teleport. Then, we have Gruesome Execution. With only two seconds of fleeing, I see a very halfhearted attempt at CC at best, practically useless. Deadly Blur is the only real choice if you want an augment for this.

 

Blade Storm:

Ash enters into Blade Storm mode (he pulls his blades out and vents more smoke). Roll, Sidestep and Backspring are replaced by manic-like teleports (they reuse Limbo's sidestep animation but Ash is invisible and I hope invincible during it, it's faster and has a smoky FX on each end). On Finisher attacks  3 holographic clones will show up to do a Finisher on nearby enermies, essentially Ash Finish up to 4 enemies per finisher attack in this mode.

Combos are a mix of kicks and vicious blade attacks.

Basic combo (EEE): Does nothing special.

Combo 1 (EEpauseEE): hit>hit>radial attack with Bleed procs>Open an enemy in front of Ash to Finisher attack.

Combo 2 (Ermb+EE) Ash lunges forward in a puff of smoke, stabbing and inflicting Bleed on enemies in line.

Duration based ultimate. Tap while active to refresh, Hold to cancel.

Rising Storm:

 -Increase Combo counter while in Blade Storm by 10s and the combo counter increase by +0.25x. Mutually exclusive with Perfect Storm.

Perfect Storm:

 -Canceling the ability will cause Ash to dissapear and strike all enemies in a 20m radius (LoS check) slashing them 3 times dealing Finisher damage (does not apply finisher multipliers) , then returning to his position. Mutually exclusive with Rising Storm.

It would be nice if the blades scaled with melee mods and had longer range than what they look like they would have. Also, a hold combo would be nice. Your proposed combos are a little too short IMO, but this is personal preference for chaining long, intricate moves together. This is cool ultimate. Last thing, make the main teleports near instantaneous and with a custom animation. Using the Gentleman of the Rift's animation seems strange.

Augment Set Bonus: (requires at least 3 Augments)

+15 Enemy Radar

+30% Parkour and Sprint Speed

+10% Evasion

Instead of one of these, or in addition to it, one might add decreased detection range, in keeping with the theme of ninja. Ash can now get much further within an enemy's line of sight before being seen.

Final thought on the PvE version-this will this be very difficult to mod for. Strength, Duration, Efficiency, Range, you need it all. You designed some of these to work together, but when they all depend on different stats which themselves only lend themselves to one or two powers, you get a whole lot of mediocre.

Conclave version:

Passive: Hemorrhage

Melee strikes inflict a Bleed proc dealing 10% of the weapons Slash damage per second for 3s

Passive: Mark of the Assassin

Only marks on radar. Has 15m marking range and falls off when enemy is 25m away. Lasts only 5s.

Shuriken:

-Shuriken deals 90 Slash damage

-Seeking Shurikens deal 20 Slash damage+10 Bleed over 10s and only release 3 shurikens.

-Piercing Shuriken deals 60 Puncture damage and has 3.5 Punch Trough.

Smoke Screen:

Cloud duration is 6s, lingering invisibility is 4s. Attacking, casting abilities or picking items cancels lingering invisbility but not cloud invisibility. Reduces accuracy of victims by 30% for 4s

Tear Gas: (augment)

-Enemies that enter the cloud are Blinded while inside it and for 1.5s after leaving it.

Smoke Out: (augment)

-Ash becomes invulnerable for 1s on cast and gains 0.4 Mobility for 4s. This effect cannot be triggered more than once every 5s.

 

Teleport:

Ash teleports to the location he is aiming. (Doesn't trigger a Stagger) Costs 20 energy and has 35m range.

Overdrive: Ash teleports to the location he is aiming, uppon landing he will also swipe his wristblades around dealing 35 Slash damage to opponents in Melee range. Costs 30 energy.

 

Blade Storm:

Doesn't trigger Finishers, instead it deals heavy damage (not oneshot though) and inflicts a Bleed proc on hit. Lasts only 10s.

Sinister Shadow (Augment):

Ash leaves an afterimage of himself whenever he performs a dash. Lasts 2s.

It creates a static decoy that doesn't move nor has collision of any type, it's purpose is deception/distraction.

 

Note: Conclave abilities work mostly the same as the PvE counterparts, the mechanics listed are only the changes for balance.

Don't play conclave, can't offer feedback here.

Overall, an interesting rework, but seems like it wants to do too much, and not a lot of it very well, and the dependence on the passive as it is written is a poor idea.

Feel free to ask any question or point out any flaw on this design. Have a nice day.

 

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, Endless_Destruction said:

Passive: Mark of the Assassin.

While aiming, gliding or latching, Ash marks enemies. Marked enemies take 20% extra Finisher and Bleed damage. Mark lasts 4s and uses no energy. Enemies marked are highlighted on the radar. 50m range.

Please clarify, does it ADD 20% finisher damage to weapon, or AMPLIFY 20% finisher damage already present? I ask, because the second case would be a lot less useful. When aiming/aim gliding/wall latching, one is not likely to take advantage of the melee bonus, preferring to instead just shoot the enemy. Also, one still has to actually execute the finisher, requiring the use of Blade Storm or Fatal Teleport or being in stealth (in which case why break stealth by attacking in the first place) to open up the target, then going through a rather clunky, single target animation. I got the idea that the goal of this was a sort of "energy efficient/neutral" iteration of the current blade storm marking mechanic, whose entire point is to get a ton of enemies marked at once, but this version doesn't allow the user to take advantage of the mark because of its single target nature and short duration. Maybe you were aiming for synergy with Overdrive Fatal Teleport, but by the time you finish marking enough enemies to make the energy cost worth it, you've already expired the first few marks you created.

I'd suggest a different version of this entirely, or a massive boost in mark duration, possibly at a cost to power.

This marking mode marks enemies as soon as you stare at them with your crosshairs while aiming/latching/gliding. It's instantaneous and you could mark groups of enemies much like you do with current BS. It's the exact same marking mode. The idea is a quick action against a pack of enemies not to run around trying to mark as much as possible.

It boosts not YOUR finisher/bleed damage, it boosts the damage the enemies TAKE, which means it's a 20% Bleed/Finisher for everyone against the marked enemies.

1 hour ago, Endless_Destruction said:

 

Shuriken:

Ash throws a single non-guided Shuriken that deals heavy Slash damage and applies a Bleed proc. If target is Unalerted it deals its total damage (shuriken+bleed) instantly as Finisher damage (augmented versions have the same mechanic). Marked enemies have their Armor or Shields stripped by 50%. Shuriken has 3.5 Punch Trough to it and staggers all enemies hit

Augment: Seeking Shuriken

Keeps the main Shuriken, but also adds up to 4 smaller shuriken. These smaller shuriken home in on enemies, but have no punchthrough and only deals ~35% of the main Shuriken's damage. Armor/shield-reduction is 35% and they as well also stagger enemies.

35% each, or if every shuriken hits?

Each. If multiple Shuriken hit the same target then that target's armor is stripped.

1 hour ago, Endless_Destruction said:

 

Augment:  Razorwind Shuriken

The Shuriken now also has emits razorsharp ash-winds from its blades (basicly adding a flat "aura" on it, increasing its cutting width quite a bit. Note that only the main physical part of the Shuriken handles the punchthrough, so you can "abuse" this to cut enemies around corners without losing punchthrough values etc). Enemies struck by the Shuriken or the ash-winds suffer all the basic effects (damage, bleed, armor/shield-removal, stagger etc), but are now also blinded for 3 seconds. The flight of the shuriken is also increased by 50%.

It seems like you're trying to do a lot with Shuriken, and cramming what you couldn't into the main ability into the augments. First, define "heavy" damage. If it has no scaling component, then no matter what, it will fall off pretty fast. Second, your first augment suggestion makes me a little bit leery-it's an Ash-ified Psychic Bolts, and those have horrible homing capability, more likely to whack the wall than anything else. Third, your second augment blinding the enemy is a bit much. You already turned a dinky projectile into a mini slash zenistar, why multiply its damage by 8? That function on a throwing star makes no sense. Fourth, why did you limit the armor stripping to marked enemies? Make it so that a "hipfired" first ability also has armor reduction. Why would the attributes of your star change with your zoom level? Also, I hope it is 50% flat, not 50% scaling, then 25%, then 12.5%, etc.

You are not required to keep aiming after the mark is done. You could zoom on enemies then back to hipfire. I don't know where you get that "8x damage" thing. The idea is to make Augments enticing, but to not make every augment mandatory, or pointless and the ability broken, I just gave 2 augments for each roughly equally good, and since they are mutually exclusive you either pick razorwind or seeking shurikens, or if you aren't that fan of Shuriken just ignore the augments. And yes, it's 50% flat much like current Seeking Shuriken.

1 hour ago, Endless_Destruction said:

 

 

Smoke Screen:

Ash creates a cloud of smoke at his feet that lasts for 12s (base duration at max ability lvl). Ash is invisible while inside the cloud and for 8s after leaving the cloud. Acts as a LoS blocker for enemies, and enemies inside the cloud and for 3s after leaving it suffer -30% Accuracy debuff (affected by Strength). Cloud radius is 3m. Can be recasted (only 1 cloud can be active at any given time though)

Smoke Shadow: Allies who enter/pass trough the cloud also gain invisibility while inside it and for 8s after leaving the cloud. Mutually exclusive with Choking Gas

Choking Gas: Enemies inside the cloud are stunned for 2s and open to finisher attacks. They also take a small amount of Gas damage while inside the cloud and for 4s after leaving it. Mutually exclusive with Smoke Shadow.

I like this. I wish the cloud would have a longer duration, so that ash can refresh his invisibility without recasting more than twice, and better set up an area denial/ally safe zone.

I think the duration is fine as it is, also you could refresh the invisibility if you go back to the cloud. Basically the cloud creates a DummyEntity that applies an invisibility buff to Ash each second he's inside (Smoke Shadow extends this to allies) so if you get your invisibility canceled or it's duration runs out you can hop back in the cloud if it's still there and regain your 8s.

1 hour ago, Endless_Destruction said:

 

Fatal Teleport:

Normal: Ash teleports to the target location (default range 35m), staggering and opening nearby (3m radius) enemies to Finisher attacks. Cost 20 energy.

Overdrive: after holding the ability (fixed at 1s with automatic release) Ash goes into a rampage, teleporting and attacking all marked enemies with his currently equiped melee weapon (essentially current blade storm) for 5 energy (10 if Blade Storm Stance is active) per enemy

Augment: Gruesome Execution

Killing an enemy with a Finisher attack shocks nearby enemies, staggering them and opening them to Finisher attack. Killing a second enemy will terrify nearby enemies causing them to flee for 2s.

Augment: Deadly Blur

Replaces Fatal Teleport Overdrive animations with blurred dash-teleports, vastly increasing the execution speed. (While in Blade Storm mode phantom blurrs will join in to attack nearby enemies too). Also increases the execution speed of all Finisher animations by 100%

Again, I don't think tying powers to your idea of marking is a good idea. Marking enough targets to make the energy cost worth it is going to be very difficult. Also, energy isn't draining per mark, so you have no way of knowing how many of your marked targets you can take out before that bombard you thought you could get but didn't screws you. I know that the arithmetic is easy to perform, but this is a game where a moment's hesitation equals death, and instant feedback like no energy left is a much better than going through the multiplication in your head. Also, why the increased energy for blade storm? Seems very anti-synergy to me. Next, we have the two-step finisher process, which to avoid is why so many ash players like fatal teleport. Then, we have Gruesome Execution. With only two seconds of fleeing, I see a very halfhearted attempt at CC at best, practically useless. Deadly Blur is the only real choice if you want an augment for this.

That's why I reduced the mark to just 4s. The Overdrive using more energy during Blade Storm is to somewhat balance out that you would be doing AoE finishers (Ash summons the clones to attack nearby targets on Finishers while in Blade Storm mode, including Fatal Teleport Overdrive). Gruesome Executions can be used with regular Fatal Teleport and the Overdrive, Overdrive in particular would start a chain of terror among the enemies, getting them terrified for nearly as long as Ash keeps doing Finishers. That's a very useful CC.

1 hour ago, Endless_Destruction said:

Blade Storm:

Ash enters into Blade Storm mode (he pulls his blades out and vents more smoke). Roll, Sidestep and Backspring are replaced by manic-like teleports (they reuse Limbo's sidestep animation but Ash is invisible and I hope invincible during it, it's faster and has a smoky FX on each end). On Finisher attacks  3 holographic clones will show up to do a Finisher on nearby enermies, essentially Ash Finish up to 4 enemies per finisher attack in this mode.

Combos are a mix of kicks and vicious blade attacks.

Basic combo (EEE): Does nothing special.

Combo 1 (EEpauseEE): hit>hit>radial attack with Bleed procs>Open an enemy in front of Ash to Finisher attack.

Combo 2 (Ermb+EE) Ash lunges forward in a puff of smoke, stabbing and inflicting Bleed on enemies in line.

Duration based ultimate. Tap while active to refresh, Hold to cancel.

Rising Storm:

 -Increase Combo counter while in Blade Storm by 10s and the combo counter increase by +0.25x. Mutually exclusive with Perfect Storm.

Perfect Storm:

 -Canceling the ability will cause Ash to dissapear and strike all enemies in a 20m radius (LoS check) slashing them 3 times dealing Finisher damage (does not apply finisher multipliers) , then returning to his position. Mutually exclusive with Rising Storm.

It would be nice if the blades scaled with melee mods and had longer range than what they look like they would have. Also, a hold combo would be nice. Your proposed combos are a little too short IMO, but this is personal preference for chaining long, intricate moves together. This is cool ultimate. Last thing, make the main teleports near instantaneous and with a custom animation. Using the Gentleman of the Rift's animation seems strange.

I will leave that up for DE, though I believe it would be like Pistol mods on Mesa's Peacemaker. The hitbox would be roughly like Daggers, except for leg sweeps or kicks which would have more range for obvious reasons.

The short combos are a way to distance the ability from other Stance Ultimates, which have flavor combos as they don't provide any useful boon or serve any function.

The player wouldn't actually see the Gentleman of the Rift's animation, that's just how the unit will move, but the dodge would make Ash's model invisible using Shadowstep's brand of invisibility (that is way less visible to the player than the regular Smoke Screen one) for that split second, with a smoky FX. I would like a custom animation of course.

1 hour ago, Endless_Destruction said:

 

Augment Set Bonus: (requires at least 3 Augments)

+15 Enemy Radar

+30% Parkour and Sprint Speed

+10% Evasion

Instead of one of these, or in addition to it, one might add decreased detection range, in keeping with the theme of ninja. Ash can now get much further within an enemy's line of sight before being seen.

Hmm... voiddamnt it you¡re right. Perhaps adding the Decreased Detection Range and reduce the Parkour/SSpeed bonus by 15% (I honestly think 30% is a bit too much)

1 hour ago, Endless_Destruction said:

 

Final thought on the PvE version-this will this be very difficult to mod for. Strength, Duration, Efficiency, Range, you need it all. You designed some of these to work together, but when they all depend on different stats which themselves only lend themselves to one or two powers, you get a whole lot of mediocre.

Yes, this one is in fact difficult to mod, or rather, it's difficult to find "one build to rule them all". I made it that way on purpose. Notice how there's a lot of options available, every stat is worthwhile (which makes Corrupted mods fit their 'power at a price' theme rather than being straight upgrades, sadly I had to make Duration very important to kick Fleeting Expertise due to how Efficiency has exponential gains).

On the upside, nearly every build works with this, as the abilities work by default, so modding is purely for upgrades or tradeoffs rather than making the abilities do their jobs in the first place.

It's a very difficult thing to balance.

1 hour ago, Endless_Destruction said:

 

Overall, an interesting rework, but seems like it wants to do too much, and not a lot of it very well, and the dependence on the passive as it is written is a poor idea.

Thank you. I will contemplate your feedback.

[Endless_Destruction]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

This marking mode marks enemies as soon as you stare at them with your crosshairs while aiming/latching/gliding. It's instantaneous and you could mark groups of enemies much like you do with current BS. It's the exact same marking mode. The idea is a quick action against a pack of enemies not to run around trying to mark as much as possible.

In current BS, the marking mode has no decay. 4 seconds per enemy is not a lot of time to take advantage up for your abilities except for a single cast of shuriken or a non-Overloaded Fatal Teleport. A two-step process, mark->use ability inherently goes against quick action. Not by your description, but because: the devs tried instant look->instant mark for the current BS, and that worked fairly poorly. Theoretically, presented with a row of enemies, you could swipe your reticle over them at any speed, and they would all be marked, but it doesn't work that way. You have to give yourself a short delay before the marks become present, and I don't see how DE would implement your proposed system any differently. If what you said transferred into game directly as written, I'd be all for it, but given that DE has already tried and failed to implement a proper glance->mark system, I can't support this passive.

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

It boosts not YOUR finisher/bleed damage, it boosts the damage the enemies TAKE, which means it's a 20% Bleed/Finisher for everyone against the marked enemies.

Sorry, should have clarified my question a bit further. Does this mean that if I shot a marked enemy with, say, an opticor, the enemy would take 20% extra finisher damage? Or does it mean that if I shot the enemy with a slash weapon and slash procced each tick would do 20% extra damage?

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

You are not required to keep aiming after the mark is done. You could zoom on enemies then back to hipfire. I don't know where you get that "8x damage" thing. The idea is to make Augments enticing, but to not make every augment mandatory, or pointless and the ability broken, I just gave 2 augments for each roughly equally good, and since they are mutually exclusive you either pick razorwind or seeking shurikens, or if you aren't that fan of Shuriken just ignore the augments. And yes, it's 50% flat much like current Seeking Shuriken.

I should have clarified again. This is like the Caustacyst's projectile-blinding, then slash procs. When it first came out, the blinded enemies took 8x damage from the slash procs, because of stealth damage. It was nerfed due to it being an unintended interaction, but if it were kept for your idea, then you have whole new levels of broken with a str/eff build. If it isn't, well, I don't have as much of a problem.

This still doesn't solve the problem of horrible projectile homing; I mean, just look at the Duality specter accuracy bugs. Seeking Shuriken is a great Armor stripping idea in theory, but implementation wise, DE doesn't have a great record of properly homing projectiles. So, Razorwind is the only real choice.

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

I think the duration is fine as it is, also you could refresh the invisibility if you go back to the cloud. Basically the cloud creates a DummyEntity that applies an invisibility buff to Ash each second he's inside (Smoke Shadow extends this to allies) so if you get your invisibility canceled or it's duration runs out you can hop back in the cloud if it's still there and regain your 8s.

I understand, I just wish it would be around 20 seconds or so, to allow for at least 3 refreshers. Well, we have modding to fix that.

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

That's why I reduced the mark to just 4s. The Overdrive using more energy during Blade Storm is to somewhat balance out that you would be doing AoE finishers (Ash summons the clones to attack nearby targets on Finishers while in Blade Storm mode, including Fatal Teleport Overdrive). Gruesome Executions can be used with regular Fatal Teleport and the Overdrive, Overdrive in particular would start a chain of terror among the enemies, getting them terrified for nearly as long as Ash keeps doing Finishers. That's a very useful CC.

Reducing the mark to 4 seconds is not a good way to prevent overflow-it's saying that your (player's) efforts have been invalidated. The thing is, with a 4-second mark duration, and finishers that last as long as they do, I anticipate only 4-5 enemies being killed per Overload, making Deadly Blur mandatory. Gruesome execution would only last so long as Overload lasts (max 4 seconds, then Overload deactivates with no more enemies marked), plus 2 seconds which in total is still poor CC, and then you still have the two step execution problem. Mark->ability cast for overload, and ability cast->press x for finisher for regular. Fatal Teleport the augment is so popular because it removes that two step process. If you run purely for CC, then the limiting factor is still the 4 second Mark duration, and the interval between your 6 second purges is still lengthened by your two-step problem.

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

I will leave that up for DE, though I believe it would be like Pistol mods on Mesa's Peacemaker. The hitbox would be roughly like Daggers, except for leg sweeps or kicks which would have more range for obvious reasons.

The short combos are a way to distance the ability from other Stance Ultimates, which have flavor combos as they don't provide any useful boon or serve any function.

The player wouldn't actually see the Gentleman of the Rift's animation, that's just how the unit will move, but the dodge would make Ash's model invisible using Shadowstep's brand of invisibility (that is way less visible to the player than the regular Smoke Screen one) for that split second, with a smoky FX. I would like a custom animation of course.

See, that's what I was afraid of. Daggers are wicked fast and can deal a lot of damage, but their pathetic range holds them back.

I disagree (more of a style issue than anything else, feel free to ignore this feedback), exalted weapons are a way for the frame to show off. Excalibur gets a lightsaber, and shows off his swordsmanship with strikes that extend far beyond any material sword, Valkyr gets a berserker's invulnerability with her instruments of evisceration, Ivara shows off her handling of arrows with a freaking shotgun bow, and Mesa gets High Noon on steroids. Ash shows off...how? Melee combos here would be the perfect opportunity for Ash to SHINE. That was the intended purpose of the cutscene in the first place, a monument to the ninja's skill. Something as rudimentary as a stance that chains finishers for multiple targets a la Assassin's Creed could do the trick. His wristblades are a unique weapon in warframe, and the stance that comes with them should truly show off the Might of the Ninja.

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

Hmm... voiddamnt it you¡re right. Perhaps adding the Decreased Detection Range and reduce the Parkour/SSpeed bonus by 15% (I honestly think 30% is a bit too much)

Cool, glad you like the suggestion.

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

Yes, this one is in fact difficult to mod, or rather, it's difficult to find "one build to rule them all". I made it that way on purpose. Notice how there's a lot of options available, every stat is worthwhile (which makes Corrupted mods fit their 'power at a price' theme rather than being straight upgrades, sadly I had to make Duration very important to kick Fleeting Expertise due to how Efficiency has exponential gains).

On the upside, nearly every build works with this, as the abilities work by default, so modding is purely for upgrades or tradeoffs rather than making the abilities do their jobs in the first place.

It's a very difficult thing to balance.

The problem is, for an individual ability to shine, you have to neglect the rest. Sure, every build would have some benefit, but a well designed frame has powers that work in tandem. This isn't a game where you walk into a mission with your passive and one good ability, you dash in with the full glory of your entire kit if possible. Gimping Ash by making his powers all only half-decent with a balanced build, and horribly specialized with one or two good powers is not optimal. Tradeoffs are all well and good, but only if the majority of the kit is usable after they have been made. Consider:
Shuriken- Strength and Efficiency are paramount, nothing else really matters, maybe some range. Duration has no benefit.

SS- Duration, and MAYBE range. Strength is a dump stat, and efficiency isn't entirely necessary given refreshes. Already we've got conflicting modding needs.

FT-Efficiency most important here, and some range. Duration is a dump stat. I'm assuming strength won't boost finisher damage, but even if it did, we'd still have problems with:

BS-Strength and Duration. If range doesn't affect dagger length, then it doesn't matter. Enough efficiency to not negate duration, but with narrow minded, that won't be hard.

This is a mess! No stat is important for even 3/4 abilities. Take Ash's archnemesis, Loki, who can dump strength completely, and run varying amounts of duration and range, with some space left over for efficiency, and he trivializes the game with it. You need at least one stat which provides an across-the-board boost, and abilities which don't directly conflict with each others' modding needs. From a minmaxing perspective, this is a nightmare, and from a balanced builder's perspective, you can't do anything but slap on the 4 basic stat mods and go.

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

Thank you. I will contemplate your feedback.

Thank you for listening. This is really, really cool in concept, but implementation falls short, and the modding issues just kill it for me.

Edited September 26, 2017 by Endless_Destruction
fixed a word

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

7 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

YOU are the one who claims something is "good" because with an overspecific build it works (while not working at all outside of it).

Only that the overspecific build in his case boils down to exactly melee attack speed, a combo mod and power management of some sort, what's 1-3 or 4 mods of choice.

2 of the 3 factors are the standart for melee weapons outside of stance abilitys while the third one takes part in any even slightly thought trough build (like yours that uses rage)

 

Enlighten me, how exactly does a melee build and mod choices that are a mandatory affect ash's build diversity? Can he not build for lets say duration while carrying a melee weapon? For armor drain while carrying a melee weapon? Go mixed while carrying a melee weapon? For CL while, wait, that one requires a melee weapon to begin with....

 

What you keep refering to describes a ideal, one that makes him able to bypass pretty much all of his needs by migrating them onto other features the game offers (what's a thing too the focus change has little effect on), what bladestorm needs is but a propper melee weapon build to perform at its absolute peak tho. That's a difference a sane beeing should be able to distinguish, what makes me wonder why you keep bringing it up...

Edited September 27, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Nazrethim]

4 minutes ago, Endless_Destruction said:

In current BS, the marking mode has no decay. 4 seconds per enemy is not a lot of time to take advantage up for your abilities except for a single cast of shuriken or a non-Overloaded Fatal Teleport. A two-step process, mark->use ability inherently goes against quick action. Not by your description, but because: the devs tried instant look->instant mark for the current BS, and that worked fairly poorly. Theoretically, presented with a row of enemies, you could swipe your reticle over them at any speed, and they would all be marked, but it doesn't work that way. You have to give yourself a short delay before the marks become present, and I don't see how DE would implement your proposed system any differently. If what you said transferred into game directly as written, I'd be all for it, but given that DE has already tried and failed to implement a proper glance->mark system, I can't support this passive.

Good point.

4 minutes ago, Endless_Destruction said:

Sorry, should have clarified my question a bit further. Does this mean that if I shot a marked enemy with, say, an opticor, the enemy would take 20% extra finisher damage? Or does it mean that if I shot the enemy with a slash weapon and slash procced each tick would do 20% extra damage?

It's the second. Non-Bleed Non-Finisher damage (which are actually the same but whatever) isn't affected at all by the marks, so only Slash procs or maybe Hydroid's Tentacle Swarm and Equinox Maim will benefit from it. And finishers from meleee weapons, but those are lethal (even without CL) for the most part anyway.

4 minutes ago, Endless_Destruction said:

I should have clarified again. This is like the Caustacyst's projectile-blinding, then slash procs. When it first came out, the blinded enemies took 8x damage from the slash procs, because of stealth damage. It was nerfed due to it being an unintended interaction, but if it were kept for your idea, then you have whole new levels of broken with a str/eff build. If it isn't, well, I don't have as much of a problem.

No it wouldn't have a damage modifier.  It just deals the Shuriken's intended damage and applies the effects.

4 minutes ago, Endless_Destruction said:

This still doesn't solve the problem of horrible projectile homing; I mean, just look at the Duality specter accuracy bugs. Seeking Shuriken is a great Armor stripping idea in theory, but implementation wise, DE doesn't have a great record of properly homing projectiles. So, Razorwind is the only real choice.

Yes, I know, I can already forsee all 4 extra mini-shurikens hitting the same damn Osprey. Unless some hidden mechanic that makes all 4 go to different enemies is added.

4 minutes ago, Endless_Destruction said:

I understand, I just wish it would be around 20 seconds or so, to allow for at least 3 refreshers. Well, we have modding to fix that.

I understand, though a 20s base cloud would likely not need duration at all, or last forever after modding.

4 minutes ago, Endless_Destruction said:

Reducing the mark to 4 seconds is not a good way to prevent overflow-it's saying that your (player's) efforts have been invalidated. The thing is, with a 4-second mark duration, and finishers that last as long as they do, I anticipate only 4-5 enemies being killed per Overload, making Deadly Blur mandatory. Gruesome execution would only last so long as Overload lasts (max 4 seconds, then Overload deactivates with no more enemies marked), plus 2 seconds which in total is still poor CC, and then you still have the two step execution problem. Mark->ability cast for overload, and ability cast->press x for finisher for regular. Fatal Teleport the augment is so popular because it removes that two step process. If you run purely for CC, then the limiting factor is still the 4 second Mark duration, and the interval between your 6 second purges is still lengthened by your two-step problem.

This is me not adding all the information about the inner workings for the sake of avoiding a wall of text.

The idea here is that once you activate the Overdrive, all the existing marks are locked (no longer expire) until you finish the Overdrive (this could work by freezing the timer on the marks once Overdrive starts)

4 minutes ago, Endless_Destruction said:

See, that's what I was afraid of. Daggers are wicked fast and can deal a lot of damage, but their pathetic range holds them back.

I disagree (more of a style issue than anything else, feel free to ignore this feedback), exalted weapons are a way for the frame to show off. Excalibur gets a lightsaber, and shows off his swordsmanship with strikes that extend far beyond any mortal sword, Valkyr gets a berserker's invulnerability with her instruments of evisceration, Ivara shows off her handling of arrows with a freaking shotgun bow, and Mesa gets High Noon on steroids. Ash shows off...how? Melee combos here would be the perfect opportunity for Ash to SHINE. That was the intended purpose of the cutscene in the first place, a monument to the ninja's skill. Something as rudimentary as a stance that chains finishers for multiple targets a la Assassin's Creed could do the trick. His wristblades are a unique weapon in warframe, and the stance that comes with them should truly show off the Might of the Ninja.

I understand. I made those combos with Conclave stances in mind (short, practical and mobile yet still using fancy animations). I agree the combos should display more ninja badassery and maybe be a bit longer.

4 minutes ago, Endless_Destruction said:

Cool, glad you like the suggestion.

The problem is, for an individual ability to shine, you have to neglect the rest. Sure, every build would have some benefit, but a well designed frame has powers that work in tandem. This isn't a game where you walk into a mission with your passive and one good ability, you dash in with the full glory of your entire kit if possible. Gimping Ash by making his powers all only half-decent with a balanced build, and horribly specialized with one or two good powers is not optimal. Tradeoffs are all well and good, but only if the majority of the kit is usable after they have been made. Consider:
Shuriken- Strength and Efficiency are paramount, nothing else really matters, maybe some range. Duration has no benefit.

SS- Duration, and MAYBE range. Strength is a dump stat, and efficiency isn't entirely necessary given refreshes. Already we've got conflicting modding needs.

FT-Efficiency most important here, and some range. Duration is a dump stat. I'm assuming strength won't boost finisher damage, but even if it did, we'd still have problems with:

BS-Strength and Duration. If range doesn't affect dagger length, then it doesn't matter. Enough efficiency to not negate duration, but with narrow minded, that won't be hard.

This is a mess! No stat is important for even 3/4 abilities. Take Ash's archnemesis, Loki, who can dump strength completely, and run varying amounts of duration and range, with some space left over for efficiency, and he trivializes the game with it. You need at least one stat which provides an across-the-board boost, and abilities which don't directly conflict with each others' modding needs. From a minmaxing perspective, this is a nightmare, and from a balanced builder's perspective, you can't do anything but slap on the 4 basic stat mods and go.

This has been... enlightening. I will require more time to analyze all of this. All I have to say that I didn't want "dump stat" for the frame (like Loki, who can dump Str with no drawback at all) while at the same time making abilities sort of work even if you gimped their primary stat.

 

To specify:

Shuriken: Duration has a benefit, it affects how long armor stays stripped (something Seeking Shuriken already has, though it's hidden) and Razorwind's Blind duration. It also affects how long the Bleed lasts (and unlike Blood Splatter, reducing time via negative duration doesn't keep the same total damage).

Smoke Screen: Strength affects the -accuracy debuff, as well as the gas damage from Choking Gas augment (which I haven't decided on a set number)

Fatal Teleport: yeah, Duration is a dumpstat on this one.

 BS: "radial finisher" range as well as Perfect Storm's range, are affected by Power Range. As for the blades, I can't decide if they should be affected by Power Range or the Reach melee mods.

4 minutes ago, Endless_Destruction said:

Thank you for listening. This is really, really cool in concept, but implementation falls short, and the modding issues just kill it for me.

Thank you. I really apreciate when someone does a deeper analysis as it helps improving on it further.

[Nazrethim]

34 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Enlighten me, how exactly does a melee build affect ash's build diversity?

The keyword here is "Riven". You figure out why that's a bad thing to balance something around. Or seek someone who has the patience to explain it to you, because you are not trying to understand what I say.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

18 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

The keyword here is "Riven". You figure out why that's a bad thing to balance something around. Or seek someone who has the patience to explain it to you, because you are not trying to understand what I say.

Riven? You might as well say corrupted mods, primed mods, augument mods, mods you have to farm at all. Those things don't even require squad stuff like raifs, in contrary to arcanes, but are a sortie dropp and become avaiable after finishing the story to an extend and are thus avaiable for everyone, solo, organiced or running random squads and rather cheap in theyr unrolled state even if one would choose to not play sorties.

 

No specific combination or weapon required eather, just attack speed (one can aim for more tho).

 

I don't, why are rivens a bad thing to min/max a ability around exactly? While, again, beein independent of his actuall build and thus leaving the build diversity you keep mentioning quite intact. Feel free to enlighten me why it's bad for ash.

Edited September 27, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

Maybe if you make a YouTube channel DE will listen.

[Endless_Destruction]

14 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

I understand, though a 20s base cloud would likely not need duration at all, or last forever after modding.

(Half-hearted criticism) this would make the total of Ash's invisibility less pathetic compared to Loki's, Ivara's, and Octavia's, while also providing a huge boost with the augment, potentially surpassing the usefulness of the invisibility of each of the others.

16 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

This is me not adding all the information about the inner workings for the sake of avoiding a wall of text.

The idea here is that once you activate the Overdrive, all the existing marks are locked (no longer expire) until you finish the Overdrive (this could work by freezing the timer on the marks once Overdrive starts)

That makes more sense, but it still doesn't solve the problem of you getting a soft cap on Overload targets due to the only 4 seconds to mark in the first place. How many enemies do you think someone can mark in 4 seconds? 10? 15? Once you add in the condition of aiming, where the viewport moves much more slowly, you seriously inhibit the player's ability to mark, and wall latching / aim gliding actively hurts the player by adding movement into the mix. Let's take the optimistic route, and even after all that, someone can reliably mark 10 enemies per 4 seconds. That means any benefit from the augmented only takes place over around 15 seconds which is respectable, but that's the UPPER limit.

Also, I appreciate the effort to make your OP more readable, but I, and I think many others would really prefer a lot more detail, including a short (modifiable by power range/str/dur/eff) blurb at the end of each section. You clearly like the frame and have put a lot of thought into various reworks, so make your post resemble that, not one of those "I ranked a frame up to 30 and now I'm the world authority on it and this is what needs to change" rework threads.

24 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

This has been... enlightening. I will require more time to analyze all of this. All I have to say that I didn't want "dump stat" for the frame (like Loki, who can dump Str with no drawback at all) while at the same time making abilities sort of work even if you gimped their primary stat.

 

To specify:

Shuriken: Duration has a benefit, it affects how long armor stays stripped (something Seeking Shuriken already has, though it's hidden) and Razorwind's Blind duration. It also affects how long the Bleed lasts (and unlike Blood Splatter, reducing time via negative duration doesn't keep the same total damage).

Smoke Screen: Strength affects the -accuracy debuff, as well as the gas damage from Choking Gas augment (which I haven't decided on a set number)

Fatal Teleport: yeah, Duration is a dumpstat on this one.

 BS: "radial finisher" range as well as Perfect Storm's range, are affected by Power Range. As for the blades, I can't decide if they should be affected by Power Range or the Reach melee mods.

There isn't anything inherently wrong with having a dump stat; the absolute worst problem that arises is the slightly more-powerful-than-intended nature of the kit. I very much doubt Chroma was intended to have both efficiency and range as dump stats for his optimal builds, and while he is freakishly strong, he has built-in weaknesses that make him by no means overpowered.

OK, new information, let's modify the original:

S-Strength is still the main event, Efficiency for usability, and Duration is in a weird position now. Sure, armor may be stripped for longer, but if you cared enough to focus down an enemy in the first place, you probably are going to continue screwing them, and considering our offensive power, screwing them fairly quickly, meaning low duration vs high duration won't matter provided you don't go below a (very low) lower bound. Sure, if you choose Razorwind (which I already said was the better augment 100% of the time but for the sake of argument let's say both augments were equally viable) then Duration gains a real benefit, but again, if you choose to use shuriken in the first place, then you are intending to focus down a target, meaning that so long as your duration doesn't go below 2 seconds, you're fine. Range is still not that useful.

S (Summary)- Strength/Efficiency, some token duration.

SS-Enemy Accuracy is wonky for hitscan/rapidfire weapons, and enemies shoot fast enough that they will hit you, and considering that any attack powerful enough to end you is homing/area denial/a corpus weapon which will hit you anyway (salty tears flow), no amount of accuracy reduction will save you. This is a very binary game, either enemies are guaranteed to hit you, or they are guaranteed to miss, and if they are going to hit you, they are going to kill you. So for the gas damage-who in their right mind would build for the "small" gas damage? Maybe if strength affected the gas status chance or something it would benefit a niche condition overload setup, but if it is a guaranteed status affect, strength is unnecessary, and even in the OP it appeared that the gas damage was more token than anything.

SS (Summary)-Duration and MAYBE Range still king. Efficiency needs still negated by enough duration.

FT-Efficiency and some range is still king, Duration's a dump stat, and strength is too unless it affects finisher strength, in which case you want some token amount.

BS-Strength and Duration are in charge, and sure, we've got some need for range, meaning no Narrow Minded, meaning there is a need for Efficiency because duration can't carry the loss a strength build potentially creates. Or, throw out Blind Rage, stick with 200% power strength, and you can still have base efficiency with less duration. Throw in a stretch and we're done. Or, rationalize that enemies are usually so tightly packed you could even have negative range and pull off 4 finishers at once, and maybe throw a stretch in with narrow minded, and we're done.

BS (Summary)-In most cases, Strength and Duration rule with token range, or in some cases decent Strength and decent Duration have priority, with some Range. PS make blade length dependent on Reach, not Range. Makes more sense.

The underlying problem is still the same-the aspects you would need a token amount of the other stats for in each power are aspects no one would need to even consider when modding much less build around. You still have some serious modding conflicts.

53 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Thank you. I really apreciate when someone does a deeper analysis as it helps improving on it further.

I try :) Always nice to see someone respond favorably to criticism.

[Nazrethim]

59 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

why are rivens a bad thing to min/max a ability around exactly? While, again, beein independent of his actuall build and thus leaving the build diversity you keep mentioning quite intact. Feel free to enlighten me why it's bad for ash.

Rivens affecting the min/maxing process of an ability isn't inherently bad. The problem I'm trying to hammer on your skull is that the current ability is slow as a snail and not work using outside of having an Attack Speed Riven, which not everyone does have and it's limited to 1 or 2 weapons, 3 or 4 if you are lucky. It's not a problem with the Riven itself, it's a problem of an ability requiring them not to be "better" but rather "less terrible"

Do you see now?

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

I'm all about this rework! Sign me up! 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

12 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Rivens affecting the min/maxing process of an ability isn't inherently bad. The problem I'm trying to hammer on your skull is that the current ability is slow as a snail and not work using outside of having an Attack Speed Riven, which not everyone does have and it's limited to 1 or 2 weapons, 3 or 4 if you are lucky. It's not a problem with the Riven itself, it's a problem of an ability requiring them not to be "better" but rather "less terrible"

Do you see now?

By terrible you mean the insane scaling with nothing but a combo mod? What weapon doesn't work well with attack speed or riven mods in generall? Who are those mods not avaiable to but bloody beginners?

 

Any other ability does terrible damage by default, bladestorm is slower by default and propper modding is a given as you progress. Can a different kind of progression be considered a problem?

Edited September 27, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Fallen_Echo]

I gotta say i like this rework especially the 4th what sounds useable and fluid not like the current one what is rush into room->mash amrking button while spinning->wait for boring cutscene to end.

[Dreamforger]

Cool conceps :) But I still like him as he is atm, though I agree that a few QoL improvement would be nice :) Love the teleport idea.

[TheTundraTerror]

Thought I'd link a thread with my thoughts on a better idea.

[Nazrethim]

Sorry for the late answer, I got a busy week.

 

On 26/9/2017 at 10:24 PM, Endless_Destruction said:

Also, I appreciate the effort to make your OP more readable, but I, and I think many others would really prefer a lot more detail, including a short (modifiable by power range/str/dur/eff) blurb at the end of each section. You clearly like the frame and have put a lot of thought into various reworks, so make your post resemble that, not one of those "I ranked a frame up to 30 and now I'm the world authority on it and this is what needs to change" rework threads.

I added better explanations under Spoilers to each ability and augment for which the "short" description wasn't enough. (It's mostly how stats affect them and a few mechanical quirks. I can add more stuff if someone points out)

On 26/9/2017 at 10:24 PM, Endless_Destruction said:

The underlying problem is still the same-the aspects you would need a token amount of the other stats for in each power are aspects no one would need to even consider when modding much less build around. You still have some serious modding conflicts.

The main problem I have is that I try to make all 4 stats roughly as useful, but that means I have to make Duration much more important because of Fleeting Expertise, consequence of Efficiency not being balanced with the other 3 stats.

On 26/9/2017 at 10:24 PM, Endless_Destruction said:

I try :) Always nice to see someone respond favorably to criticism.

I apreciate criticism so long as it's justified and well explained :)

[Somi_xD]

After i returned to the game, i posted a suggestion about a second Ash revisit, because after playing again, i remembered why i lost the motivation to play my beloved frame (yes, i am an Ash fanboy since he was released).
[And why don't you linked me your suggestion from the beginning :D - i love to read good ideas]

So basically i mixed your your suggestion with my ideas - tell me what you think about it, i am open for discussions.

Legend:
Red marked = my elements
Green marked = changes to your elements
striked through = things i would take out
Curved + Fat = my comment

(If i do not comment below a point, i completely agree with it)

 

Ash rework:

Passive: Hemorrhage

Increases Bleed damage by 20% and Duration by 50%

Augment (exilus): Blood Splatter

Bleed damage increased by 260% and Duration reduced by 50%. Replaces Hemorrhage's standard effect. Mutually exclusive with Relentless Assassin

This exilus Augment would be really great - it would speed up his DPS, and i think this would really fit as an exilus for him.
Currently i see nothing about this what i would change or what would not fit.

Passive: Mark of the Assassin.

While aiming, gliding or latching, Ash marks enemies. Marked enemies take 20% extra Finisher and Bleed damage and Headshot dmg. Mark lasts 5s and uses no energy. Enemies marked are highlighted on the radar. 50m range. Max enemies marked at the same time 15

Augment (exilus): Relentless Assassin

Killing marked enemies with a Finisher attack or Ash's abilities grants him 5 energy for every finisher (5 for Teleport's Hold function). Mutually exclusive with Blood Splatter.

Turning the marking into a passive - dude i love you xD had the same idea a year ago, i support this 100%.
I think it should be 5 energy for every finisher, because it isn't affected by any other mods, and would be abit to much in combination with the Bladestorm and Teleport

 

Shuriken:

Ash throws a single non-guided Shuriken that deals 100/250/350/500(default stats) Slash damage and applies a Bleed proc that lasts (base before passives) 6 seconds. If target is Unalerted it deals its total damage (shuriken+bleed) instantly as Finisher damage (augmented versions have the same mechanic). Marked enemies have their Armor or Shields stripped by 50% for 4s. Shuriken has 2.0 Punch Trough to it and staggers all enemies hit
Shuriken dmg will be affected by Melee combo counter, shuriken hits will count into the Melee combo counter.

Added the melee combo counter and adjusted the dmg for it

Augment: Seeking Shurikens

Adds 4 smaller seeking shuriken. These smaller shuriken home in on enemies, but have no punchthrough and only deals ~25% of the main Shuriken's damage. Armor/shield-reduction is 15% and they as well also stagger enemies.

Reduced the DMG and armor/shild reduction to a reasonable amount (in mind with the melee combo counter change i did)

Augment:  Razorwind Shuriken

The Shuriken now also has emits razorsharp ash-winds from its blades (basicly adding a flat "aura" on it) increasing its cutting width by 0.8m. Note that only the main physical part of the Shuriken handles the punchthrough, so you can "abuse" this to cut enemies around corners without losing punchthrough values etc). Enemies struck by the Shuriken or the ash-winds suffer all the basic effects (damage, bleed, armor/shield-removal, stagger etc), but are now also blinded for 3 seconds. The flight speed of the shuriken is also increased by 50%.

 

Smoke Screen:

Ash creates a cloud of smoke at his feet that lasts for 12s (base duration at max ability lvl). Ash is invisible while inside the cloud and for 8s after leaving the cloud. Acts as a LoS blocker for enemies, and enemies inside the cloud and for 3s after leaving it suffer -30% Accuracy debuff (affected by Strength). Cloud radius is 3m (should be affected by range mods). Can be recasted (only 1 cloud can be active at any given time though)

A question here, are the 8 seconds after leavingthe clound also affected by duration mods?
Second one, are enemies distracted by the smoke cloud? Can they see it? If they can maybe they can't see it with the smoke shadow mod.
I saw this cloud suggestion all over the forum a year ago, and i like the idea - so i support this

Smoke Shadow: Allies who enter/pass trough the cloud also gain invisibility while inside it and for 8s after leaving the cloud (enemies will not react to the smoke shadow, except they are in it). Mutually exclusive with Choking Gas

Choking Gas: Enemies inside the cloud are stunned for 3s and open to finisher attacks. They also take a small amount of Gas damage (equal to 2% of the target's maximum health, affected by Strength) while inside the cloud and for 4s after leaving it. Mutually exclusive with Smoke Shadow.

About choking Gas, i had a similar idea about opening up enemies inside or affect by it for finisher. I like your idea to put it into a second augment.

 

Fatal Teleport:

Normal: Ash teleports to the target location (default range 35m), staggering and opening nearby (3m radius) enemies to Finisher attacks and increasing Finisher damage of your next finishing move by 30% for 3s. Cost 25 energy (default or maybe more)

OK, i am confused - so it looks like, that you Replaced normal teleport with Fatal Telport? Does it auto-execute -to me it looks like it doesn't (i think it shouldn't)
So you can freely teleport to any place you look at? That's a suggestion that is mentioned over and over - i would like it.
Staggering nearby enemies is really a thing that is needed. Does mods affect the radius and the stagger time?
I am not sure about the energy cost, because with the passive augment to regain Energy and with Efficiency mods this would be abit OP - it would nullify energy costs on teleport.

Overdrive: after holding the ability (fixed at 1s with automatic release) Ash goes into a rampage, teleporting and attacking all marked enemies with his currently equiped melee weapon (essentially current blade storm) for 5 energy (10 if Blade Storm Stance is active) per enemy

The overdrive idea is pretty cool, i like the idea, placing the old/current Bladestorm into a teleport (because now fatal teleport is the new bladestorm xD)
But it would be abit to much, also with the passive augment it would be really OP - spam fest.

Augment: Gruesome Execution

Killing an enemy with a Finisher attack after using Fatal Teleport shocks enemies, staggering them and opening them to Finisher attack. Killing a second enemy will terrify enemies who are not shocked, causing them to flee for 3s. Overdrive skips directly to the terrify part. Shock radius is 8m, Fear radius 12m

Hmpf. . .  a good augment idea, but the fear effect would take away the shock advantage, as far as i see this.
I would change it abit, so you can still execute those enemies who are shocked.
Also, how long should the Shock duration be?

Augment: Deadly Blur

Replaces Fatal Teleport Overdrive animations with blurred dash-teleports, vastly increasing the execution speed. (While in Blade Storm mode phantom blurrs will join in to attack nearby enemies too). Also increases the execution speed of all Finisher animations by 100%
It will Auto-finish the enemy you teleport to, and you can nearly immediatly (due to the increast execution speed) teleport to the next one - essentially it is a "manual version" of the current bladestorm
This augment will increase the basic cost to 35 Energy

The phantom part is already in the Bladestorm, so i don't think you need this here again - the clones from Bladestorm will still be active if execution with Deadly Blur.
The increased energy cost does balance out the the auto-finish, and in Bladestorm you theoretically can auto-finish 3 enemies at the same time over and over, so you already safe 5 up to 15 energy in combination with the Passive Augment (don't forget efficiency )
 

Blade Storm:

Ash enters into Blade Storm mode (he pulls his blades out and vents more smoke). Roll, Sidestep and Backspring are replaced by manic-like teleports. On Finisher attacks  2 holographic clones will show up to do a Finisher on nearby enermies in a 3m radius, essentially Ash Finish up to 3 enemies per finisher attack in this mode.

I reduced the amount of clones to 2 -  3 at the same time would be much to strong with his passive Relentless Assassin.
Is the range affected by range mods?

The clones finishing of nearby enemies

Combos are a mix of kicks and vicious blade attacks.

Basic combo (EEE): Does nothing special.

Combo 1 (EEpauseEE): hit>hit>Open an enemy in front of Ash to Finisher attack.

Combo 2 (Ermb+EE) Ash lunges forward in a puff of smoke, stabbing and inflicting Bleed on enemies in a 5m line.

Combo 3 (EEhold+E) hit>hit>Ash spins around hitting enemies surrounding him and applying Bleeds on them

Duration based ultimate. Tap while active to refresh, Hold to cancel.
Doesn't cost energy to activate
Bladestorm has a Maxium duration of 30 seconds (not affected by duration mods)
You can only activate bladestorm if the 30 seconds are full
Those 30 seconds act like a resource, to fill it up you need to kill enemies outside of Bladestorm.
One killed enemy adds 2/3 seconds to the counter = 10/15 kills are needed to activate bladestorm.

I mixed up your idea with my idea, they already where very similar, so there wasn't much change.
About the amount of needed kills i am not sure - what do you think, which one would be balanced ?

Rising Storm:

 -Increase Combo counter while in Blade Storm by 2/4/6/8s and the combo counter increase by +0.25x. Mutually exclusive with Perfect Storm.

Perfect Storm:

 - running out of time in Blade storm will cause Ash to dissapear and strike all enemies in a 20m radius (LoS check) slashing them 3 times dealing Finisher damage (does not apply finisher multipliers) , then returning to his position. Mutually exclusive with Rising Storm.

Adapted Pefect Storm to my Bladestorm change

 

Augment Set Bonus: (requires at least 3 Augments)

+15 Enemy Radar

+30% Parkour and Sprint Speed

+10% Evasion

Cool idea - i like it, because currently it isn't a real option to give up multiple slots for augments

 

Conclave version:

Passive: Hemorrhage

Melee strikes inflict a Bleed proc dealing 10% of the weapons Slash damage per second for 3s

Passive: Mark of the Assassin

Only marks on radar. Has 15m marking range and falls off when enemy is 25m away. Lasts only 5s.

Shuriken:

-Shuriken deals 90 Slash damage

-Seeking Shurikens deal 20 Slash damage+10 Bleed over 10s and only release 3 shurikens.

-Piercing Shuriken deals 60 Puncture damage and has 3.5 Punch Trough.

Smoke Screen:

Cloud duration is 6s, lingering invisibility is 4s. Attacking, casting abilities or picking items cancels lingering invisbility but not cloud invisibility. Reduces accuracy of victims by 30% for 4s

Tear Gas: (augment)

-Enemies that enter the cloud are Blinded while inside it and for 1.5s after leaving it.

Smoke Out: (augment)

-Ash becomes invulnerable for 1s on cast and gains 0.4 Mobility for 4s. This effect cannot be triggered more than once every 5s.

 

Teleport:

Ash teleports to the location he is aiming. (Doesn't trigger a Stagger) Costs 20 energy and has 35m range.

Overdrive: Ash teleports to the location he is aiming, uppon landing he will also swipe his wristblades around dealing 35 Slash damage to opponents in Melee range. Costs 30 energy.

 

Blade Storm:

Doesn't trigger Finishers, instead it deals heavy damage (not oneshot though) and inflicts a Bleed proc on hit. Lasts only 10s.

Sinister Shadow (Augment):

Ash leaves an afterimage of himself whenever he performs a dash. Lasts 2s.

It creates a static decoy that doesn't move nor has collision of any type, it's purpose is deception/distraction.

 

Note: Conclave abilities work mostly the same as the PvE counterparts, the mechanics listed are only the changes for balance.

 

Can't give much feedback on conclave >.> sorry, i never have been a PVP Warframer.

 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Somi_xD

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, Somi_xD said:

After i returned to the game, i posted a suggestion about a second Ash revisit, because after playing again, i remembered why i lost the motivation to play my beloved frame (yes, i am an Ash fanboy since he was released).
[And why don't you linked me your suggestion from the beginning :D - i love to read good ideas]

I avoid linking my rework for PR reasons hahaha

1 hour ago, Somi_xD said:

So basically i mixed your your suggestion with my ideas - tell me what you think about it, i am open for discussions.

Let's see, though I don't think they will merge quite right as they are very different in application.

 

1 hour ago, Somi_xD said:

Turning the marking into a passive - dude i love you xD had the same idea a year ago, i support this 100%.

 

I think it should be 5 energy for every finisher, because it isn't affected by any other mods, and would be abit to much in combination with the Bladestorm and Teleport

 

Why waste a perfectly functional marking mode, right? The energy isn't affected by anything. And BS Clone kills don't count for it, only Ash kills.

1 hour ago, Somi_xD said:

Shuriken:

Ash throws a single non-guided Shuriken that deals 100/250/350/500(default stats) Slash damage and applies a Bleed proc that lasts (base before passives) 6 seconds. If target is Unalerted it deals its total damage (shuriken+bleed) instantly as Finisher damage (augmented versions have the same mechanic). Marked enemies have their Armor or Shields stripped by 50% for 4s. Shuriken has 2.0 Punch Trough to it and staggers all enemies hit
Shuriken dmg will be affected by Melee combo counter, shuriken hits will count into the Melee combo counter.

Added the melee combo counter and adjusted the dmg for it

This makes sense, would make it scale much better.

1 hour ago, Somi_xD said:

Reduced the DMG and armor/shild reduction to a reasonable amount (in mind with the melee combo counter change i did)

 Makes sense.

1 hour ago, Somi_xD said:

 

Smoke Screen:

 

Ash creates a cloud of smoke at his feet that lasts for 12s (base duration at max ability lvl). Ash is invisible while inside the cloud and for 8s after leaving the cloud. Acts as a LoS blocker for enemies, and enemies inside the cloud and for 3s after leaving it suffer -30% Accuracy debuff (affected by Strength). Cloud radius is 3m (should be affected by range mods). Can be recasted (only 1 cloud can be active at any given time though)

A question here, are the 8 seconds after leavingthe clound also affected by duration mods?
Second one, are enemies distracted by the smoke cloud? Can they see it? If they can maybe they can't see it with the smoke shadow mod.
I saw this cloud suggestion all over the forum a year ago, and i like the idea - so i support this

Cloud radius IS affected by Power Range. Yes, the lingering invisibility is also affected by duration. The enemies would behave depending on their alert level, just like current BS, that is, not reacting at all while unalerted or shooting and moving inside if alerted and just saw Ash deploy it.

1 hour ago, Somi_xD said:

 

About choking Gas, i had a similar idea about opening up enemies inside or affect by it for finisher. I like your idea to put it into a second augment.

Yeah, it was a tad bit overpowered to have the finisher opening by default, so I made it an augment, this way you have the option of going full offensive or take on a more supportive role.

1 hour ago, Somi_xD said:

Fatal Teleport:

Normal: Ash teleports to the target location (default range 35m), staggering and opening nearby (3m radius) enemies to Finisher attacks and increasing Finisher damage of your next finishing move by 30% for 3s. Cost 25 energy (default or maybe more)

OK, i am confused - so it looks like, that you Replaced normal teleport with Fatal Telport? Does it auto-execute -to me it looks like it doesn't (i think it shouldn't)
So you can freely teleport to any place you look at? That's a suggestion that is mentioned over and over - i would like it.
Staggering nearby enemies is really a thing that is needed. Does mods affect the radius and the stagger time?
I am not sure about the energy cost, because with the passive augment to regain Energy and with Efficiency mods this would be abit OP - it would nullify energy costs on teleport.

Yes, the finisher of regular Fatal Teleport isn't automatic. You have Overdrive function to do that. Yes, you can teleport where you can aim that isn't "forbidden" terrain.

That's why I reduced the energy refund on Overdrive.

1 hour ago, Somi_xD said:

 

 

Overdrive: after holding the ability (fixed at 1s with automatic release) Ash goes into a rampage, teleporting and attacking all marked enemies with his currently equiped melee weapon (essentially current blade storm) for 5 energy (10 if Blade Storm Stance is active) per enemy

The overdrive idea is pretty cool, i like the idea, placing the old/current Bladestorm into a teleport (because now fatal teleport is the new bladestorm xD)
But it would be abit to much, also with the passive augment it would be really OP - spam fest.

Depends, if you go with max efficiency it would likely be. However, as I said many times, I disdain Efficiency and made the build as hostile to Fleeting Expertise mod as possible.

1 hour ago, Somi_xD said:

 

Augment: Gruesome Execution

Killing an enemy with a Finisher attack after using Fatal Teleport shocks enemies, staggering them and opening them to Finisher attack. Killing a second enemy will terrify enemies who are not shocked, causing them to flee for 3s. Overdrive skips directly to the terrify part. Shock radius is 8m, Fear radius 12m

Hmpf. . .  a good augment idea, but the fear effect would take away the shock advantage, as far as i see this.
I would change it abit, so you can still execute those enemies who are shocked.
Also, how long should the Shock duration be?

The "shock" is actually a Stagger, so it's about 1s long. Since Overdrive would be finishing very fast the shock part is just redundant as the main CC here is the fear.

1 hour ago, Somi_xD said:

Augment: Deadly Blur

Replaces Fatal Teleport Overdrive animations with blurred dash-teleports, vastly increasing the execution speed. (While in Blade Storm mode phantom blurrs will join in to attack nearby enemies too). Also increases the execution speed of all Finisher animations by 100%
It will Auto-finish the enemy you teleport to, and you can nearly immediatly (due to the increast execution speed) teleport to the next one - essentially it is a "manual version" of the current bladestorm
This augment will increase the basic cost to 35 Energy

The phantom part is already in the Bladestorm, so i don't think you need this here again - the clones from Bladestorm will still be active if execution with Deadly Blur.
The increased energy cost does balance out the the auto-finish, and in Bladestorm you theoretically can auto-finish 3 enemies at the same time over and over, so you already safe 5 up to 15 energy in combination with the Passive Augment (don't forget efficiency )
 

Making the basic cost 35 energy per jump would make Efficiency mandatory, so nobody in their right mind would use Overdrive unless going with a cheesy build. The idea is to encourage build diversity.

As I mentioned earlier, the passive only refunds energy for Ash's kills, not the clones.

1 hour ago, Somi_xD said:

Blade Storm:

Ash enters into Blade Storm mode (he pulls his blades out and vents more smoke). Roll, Sidestep and Backspring are replaced by manic-like teleports. On Finisher attacks  2 holographic clones will show up to do a Finisher on nearby enermies in a 3m radius, essentially Ash Finish up to 3 enemies per finisher attack in this mode.

I reduced the amount of clones to 2 -  3 at the same time would be much to strong with his passive Relentless Assassin.
Is the range affected by range mods?

2-3 clones isn't bad either, maybe it could depend on the level of the ability, adding more clones as you level it up. Again, Relentless Assassin doesn't affect Clone kills, only Ash kills.

Yes, the range is affected by mods.

1 hour ago, Somi_xD said:

 

Duration based ultimate. Tap while active to refresh, Hold to cancel.
Bladestorm has a Maxium duration of 30 seconds (not affected by duration mods)
You can only activate bladestorm if the 30 seconds are full
Those 30 seconds act like a resource, to fill it up you need to kill enemies outside of Bladestorm.
One killed enemy adds 2/3 seconds to the counter = 10/15 kills are needed to activate bladestorm.

I mixed up your idea with my idea, they already where very similar, so there wasn't much change.
About the amount of needed kills i am not sure - what do you think, which one would be balanced ?

This would make Duration pointless and encourage players to run Max Efficiency (Fleeting Expertise). The idea is to make Duration so important that FE is more of a power with a drawback than the straight upgrade it currently is for most frames.

1 hour ago, Somi_xD said:

 

Rising Storm:

 -Increase Combo counter while in Blade Storm by 2/4/6/8s and the combo counter increase by +0.25x. Mutually exclusive with Perfect Storm.

Perfect Storm:

 - running out of time in Blade storm will cause Ash to dissapear and strike all enemies in a 20m radius (LoS check) slashing them 3 times dealing Finisher damage (does not apply finisher multipliers) , then returning to his position. Mutually exclusive with Rising Storm.

Adapted Pefect Storm to my Bladestorm change

The problem here is that BS may take up to 30s to run out, making Perfect Storm less appealing. Perfect Storm is pointed towards players running in low duration to have a reason to use BS and want a more nuke-like ability (even if it's weaker). Essentially, it's a gift more for max effi players who like spamming abilities, PS compromises power but gives them a solid tool to work with anyway. The idea is Build Diversity, which includes those set ups too.

1 hour ago, Somi_xD said:

Augment Set Bonus: (requires at least 3 Augments)

+15 Enemy Radar

+30% Parkour and Sprint Speed

+10% Evasion

Cool idea - i like it, because currently it isn't a real option to give up multiple slots for augments

And could be applied to every other frame with at least 4 augments too!

Thank you for your feedback. ^_^

[Somi_xD]

9 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Why waste a perfectly functional marking mode, right? The energy isn't affected by anything. And BS Clone kills don't count for it, only Ash kills.

That's right ^^
Then i would suggest you to add that clones do not count for Relentless Assassin, because you wrote "finisher or ashs abilities"

14 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Yes, the finisher of regular Fatal Teleport isn't automatic. You have Overdrive function to do that. Yes, you can teleport where you can aim that isn't "forbidden" terrain.

That's why I reduced the energy refund on Overdrive.

Depends, if you go with max efficiency it would likely be. However, as I said many times, I disdain Efficiency and made the build as hostile to Fleeting Expertise mod as possible.

I would rather put the "overdrive" into the Death Blur augment, in my opinion it would fit more and the basic teleport wouldn't be overloaded with a mini-BS.

The point is, if you want to consider as many builds as possible, you also need to consider max efficiency builds or cheesy builds etc.

20 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

The "shock" is actually a Stagger, so it's about 1s long. Since Overdrive would be finishing very fast the shock part is just redundant as the main CC here is the fear.

The shock being a stagger was clear to me, but you don't mention the duration of the stagger at all. you should explain this better ;)

22 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Making the basic cost 35 energy per jump would make Efficiency mandatory, so nobody in their right mind would use Overdrive unless going with a cheesy build. The idea is to encourage build diversity.

As I mentioned earlier, the passive only refunds energy for Ash's kills, not the clones.

With this knowledge i can say - 20 energy are a good number, but still would incease with Death blur
up to 25 energy.

22 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

2-3 clones isn't bad either, maybe it could depend on the level of the ability, adding more clones as you level it up. Again, Relentless Assassin doesn't affect Clone kills, only Ash kills.

Yes, the range is affected by mods.

With clones exluded out of Relentless assasin also 3 could be a choice - it should definetly adding moe clones with level it up.
OK, thats good.

 

29 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

This would make Duration pointless and encourage players to run Max Efficiency (Fleeting Expertise). The idea is to make Duration so important that FE is more of a power with a drawback than the straight upgrade it currently is for most frames.

The problem here is that BS may take up to 30s to run out, making Perfect Storm less appealing. Perfect Storm is pointed towards players running in low duration to have a reason to use BS and want a more nuke-like ability (even if it's weaker). Essentially, it's a gift more for max effi players who like spamming abilities, PS compromises power but gives them a solid tool to work with anyway. The idea is Build Diversity, which includes those set ups too

Ah, ok - the problem i saw is, that you can make perfect storm a much to easy to spam nuke ability.
But i get it now, where you aimed at with it - so lets take the 30 sec idea i added and let it be affected by duration.

So with Transient fortitude ( -27,5 duration + 55 strenght ) and Fleeting expertise ( - 60 duration + 60 efficiency) you could reach a total of -87,5% duration x 30 = 3,75 seconds
So basically this would be a pretty good nuke ability but not that extremly abuseable by spamming, and it would be already available after killing 2 enemies at max neg. duration.

42 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

And could be applied to every other frame with at least 4 augments too!

Thank you for your feedback. ^_^

That's right, this could be a good change for every warframe, i think there will be more augments in the future so this shouldn't be the problem.

No problem :)

44 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Let's see, though I don't think they will merge quite right as they are very different in application.

The thing is, i am not talking purely about the suggestion i posted - i have much more up my sleeve :P (i have a block full of ideas, i did over the years since i started to play Warframe (with the open beta start) :'D

But i don't had that much to add, because you already hit many points i have in similar ways :)