Rolling to get out of Limbo's rift

[Arugula420]

I feel like there's a better solution for this. I use rolling to get around a lot and this has resulted in me cancelling banish when I don't want to a lot. 

Two ideas I have are either just hold x to exit, or hold q and the option to exit would appear along with the emote screen and you could click on it.

Thoughts?

[Bobtm]

Both of those alternate options are too slow and/or too clunky to be an appropriate change.

[DaftMeat]

29 minutes ago, Bobtm said:

Both of those alternate options are too slow and/or too clunky to be an appropriate change.

Solution has to work for Controllers to include ease-of-use for Xbox/PS4 players.

[InDueTime-EN-]

1 hour ago, Arugula420 said:

hold q and the option to exit would appear along with the emote screen and you could click on it.

1

How is this faster than rolling? 

And how is pressing context action be faster when you want to continue moving forward? the default is X, and I don't know about you but I use my middle finger for pressing both x and w. so that's gonna stop me from moving. 

Rolling is fine.

[Arugula420]

1 hour ago, Bobtm said:

Both of those alternate options are too slow and/or too clunky to be an appropriate change.

holding x is too slow?

 

41 minutes ago, DaftMeat said:

Solution has to work for Controllers to include ease-of-use for Xbox/PS4 players.

what is your current "use" button on console? Would that not work? Also how do you access emotes?

 

1 minute ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

How is this faster than rolling? 

And how is pressing context action be faster when you want to continue moving forward? the default is X, and I don't know about you but I use my middle finger for pressing both x and w. so that's gonna stop me from moving. 

Rolling is fine.

it's not supposed to be necessarily faster than rolling, just comparable, and different. I think that rolling is weird because it limits your movement in the void, movement i typically rely on. The most notable instance of this is how rolling after a bullet jump is the most efficient way to get around and you can't do that while banished or you exit. 

[InDueTime-EN-]

Just now, Arugula420 said:

It's not supposed to be necessarily faster than rolling, just comparable, and different. I think that rolling is weird because it limits your movement in the void, movement i typically rely on. The most notable instance of this is how rolling after a bullet jump is the most efficient way to get around and you can't do that while banished or you exit. 

1

Oh. Riiiight. Serves me right for just skimming the post. That is a good argument. Rolling is definitely something I use a lot. Hmm.. 

 

But.. I've yet to encounter a limbo that plays well enough for me to need to roll while I'm in the rift(unless I'm in a cataclysm).

[Arugula420]

1 minute ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

 

Ur fine. Right tho?

I've seen some in missions, bless um, that always try to banish at the beginnings of missions and when there are a lot of enemies, and I always find myself accidentally rolling out of it when they're trying to help. 

I think it's kind of confusing for limbos and their teammates alike when the best time to use banish is on players, at least as it currently stands.

[InDueTime-EN-]

I guess,.. you're right, context action might be the best one because you need to get out of the rift to interact with consoles anyway. 

[DaftMeat]

48 minutes ago, Arugula420 said:

what is your current "use" button on console? Would that not work? Also how do you access emotes?

"Use" shares the same button as "Reload".

Gear wheel with emotes is on the D-Pad.

[PsiWarp]

As the gentleframe's name suggests, change exiting Banish from rolling to holding down crouch. Do the Limbo to leave limbo.

[Arugula420]

1 hour ago, DaftMeat said:

"Use" shares the same button as "Reload".

Gear wheel with emotes is on the D-Pad.

So do you not thing that holding the use/reload button could work? Because currently there is no need to hold that button for anything, and I'd argue that's faster and more convenient than rolling. It's not like it'd be the first thing to have differing mechanics for pushing/holding in the game. 

 

59 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

As the gentleframe's name suggests, change exiting Banish from rolling to holding down crouch. Do the Limbo to leave limbo.

Now that is my favorite idea so far. Better than rolling functionally and conceptually. 

 

I also just thought of another thing. What if there are mutalist swarm moas/ magots/ seeker rollers/ leech osprays/ anything else that requires you to roll in the void? That's really inconvenient. I really love the crouching suggestion. I feel like that's much better. Maybe you could also still use c to toggle crouch without exiting, but control actually exits. Control probably is the most convenient key after all. Thoughts anyone?

[Arugula420]

1 hour ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

I guess,.. you're right, context action might be the best one because you need to get out of the rift to interact with consoles anyway. 

That was my favorite solution too, but apparently that would conflict with consoles, unless we thought of a work around. 

What do you think of crouch as was mentioned in this post? :

1 hour ago, PsiWarp said:

As the gentleframe's name suggests, change exiting Banish from rolling to holding down crouch. Do the Limbo to leave limbo.

 

[DaftMeat]

6 minutes ago, Arugula420 said:

So do you not thing that holding the use/reload button could work? Because currently there is no need to hold that button for anything, and I'd argue that's faster and more convenient than rolling. It's not like it'd be the first thing to have differing mechanics for pushing/holding in the game. 

Believe it or not trying to assign Long Press to buttons can cause a lot of problems with various actions like reviving teammates, as Steam players who have played with custom button mapping (like me) can attest to.

[InDueTime-EN-]

9 minutes ago, Arugula420 said:

What do you think of crouch as was mentioned in this post? :

 

 

I think crouching is used more often than rolling as it is used for bullet jumps.

I started trying to play with a controller. It's very difficult for me because I've never really done it with shooters before (except the really old ones). And I think the context action is also the reload button. So.. that might cause issues.

 

 

[Arugula420]

1 minute ago, DaftMeat said:

Believe it or not trying to assign Long Press to buttons can cause a lot of problems with various actions like reviving teammates, as Steam players who have played with custom button mapping (like me) can attest to.

Really? I wasn't aware of that. Does that include warframe powers that can be pressed and held like Hydroid's tempest barrage and tentacle swarm?

What do you think of replacing roll with crouch as suggested in this post? :

1 hour ago, PsiWarp said:

As the gentleframe's name suggests, change exiting Banish from rolling to holding down crouch. Do the Limbo to leave limbo.

 

[Arugula420]

1 minute ago, InDueTime-EN- said:

I think crouching is used more often than rolling as it is used for bullet jumps.

I started trying to play with a controller. It's very difficult for me because I've never really done it with shooters before (except the really old ones). And I think the context action is also the reload button. So.. that might cause issues.

 

 

Right I forgot about bullet jump requiring crouch. What if it was a double crouch? That way it would almost have to be intentional. Still got the limbo theme going for it. Makes a little more sense imho. Still probably faster than the rolling animation.   

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

I like that idea, but i think the rift buff on allies should also give them limbo's passive that phases them in and out as they dodge so they have control over their rift interactions. They would still have the option of holding x or whatever to remove the buff, but wouldn't need it nearly as often since they could control their phase themself throughout the buff timer to interact with phased and non phased enemies. 

[Birdframe_Prime]

12 hours ago, Arugula420 said:

I feel like there's a better solution for this.

My two cents is that DE actually did try other methods, they agreed after weeks of testing internally that movement was the only way that all platforms and users would be able to consistently exit the Rift with the minimum of input (because ease and speed of getting out was more important at the time because of Limbo trolling, where Limbo could put you in the rift for the duration).

The 'way out' actually used to be back-flipping, where you aim first and then use roll backwards, a move not a lot of newer players know even exists. Having the roll now is purely because people still, to this day, intentionally put others in the rift to annoy them. Unfortunate, but true. So having a quick and simple way out is more important to DE's complaint department than having something that means you lose out on a bit of efficiency on your traversal.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

why not just tweak the way the rift works to eliminate the need to get rid of something that is supposed to be beneficial? 

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

22 minutes ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

why not just tweak the way the rift works to eliminate the need to get rid of something that is supposed to be beneficial? 

Ya, that's why i suggested allowing allies to benefit from his passive from dodging to remove the need to turn it off. 

Several time in the past I've suggested rework ideas to the rift mechanic itself but they always falls on deaf ears. 

[Arugula420]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

I like that idea, but i think the rift buff on allies should also give them limbo's passive that phases them in and out as they dodge so they have control over their rift interactions. They would still have the option of holding x or whatever to remove the buff, but wouldn't need it nearly as often since they could control their phase themself throughout the buff timer to interact with phased and non phased enemies. 

This is a good suggestion. So when someone is banished they can enter and exit the rift at will for the duration. That defiantly would make the ability a lot better. As it stands I feel one of the biggest issues is that neither limbo or teammates alike know when is a good time to cast banish on a player. This could be the solution.

3 hours ago, Thaylien said:

The 'way out' actually used to be back-flipping, where you aim first and then use roll backwards, a move not a lot of newer players know even exists. Having the roll now is purely because people still, to this day, intentionally put others in the rift to annoy them. Unfortunate, but true. So having a quick and simple way out is more important to DE's complaint department than having something that means you lose out on a bit of efficiency on your traversal.

I hear what you're saying, but it's a little bit more than just efficiency. Whenever I move I constantly roll out of instinct because it's a fast paced game and that's what I've learned is best. I just think that there must be some solution that makes more sense, and maybe doesn't look/feel as silly as rolling around. We already do so much of that with enemies, particularly infested. There's just got to be a better way. I still dig the double crouch idea to go along with Limbo's name, or hold x, possibly combined with the idea I've quoted above you.

3 hours ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

why not just tweak the way the rift works to eliminate the need to get rid of something that is supposed to be beneficial? 

That could be a viable solution as well. The whole ability does just seem like hindrance to most, most of the time. 

[InDueTime-EN-]

Rolling out of the rift wouldn't such a problem if other players have ways to getting back in without limbo's help. If for example, shooting units within the rift would transport you into the rift then it's fine to be using any action to get out of the rift. 

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

On 9/16/2017 at 3:54 AM, Arugula420 said:

That could be a viable solution as well. The whole ability does just seem like hindrance to most, most of the time. 

its nice to see im not being immediately shot down like i was in the thread i started to talk about this exact thing

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

its nice to see im not being immediately shot down like i was in the thread i started to talk about this exact thing

Well your problem, and likely why you were shot down, is that... how would you even do that? The basis of the Rift is that you can't interact with things outside it, and vice-versa. The instant invulnerability this gives by ducking in and out of the Rift plane is incredibly beneficial, but it is also incredibly disruptive to the most important thing that you do in this game; kill things for loot.

It's a true dichotomy, and you can't have the benefits of it without those drawbacks, that would literally be too powerful, so... where does that leave us?

You'll be a smarter designer than any in DE if you can find a way to mechanically do that, that's for sure.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

3 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

Well your problem, and likely why you were shot down, is that... how would you even do that? The basis of the Rift is that you can't interact with things outside it, and vice-versa. The instant invulnerability this gives by ducking in and out of the Rift plane is incredibly beneficial, but it is also incredibly disruptive to the most important thing that you do in this game; kill things for loot.

It's a true dichotomy, and you can't have the benefits of it without those drawbacks, that would literally be too powerful, so... where does that leave us?

You'll be a smarter designer than any in DE if you can find a way to mechanically do that, that's for sure.

well i have a few ways to explain it, but first lets call the physical plane "N" and the rift plane "R"

if you are in N

• you can still deal damage to enemies in R, but doing so grants them a few moments where they can fire back at you. They dont leave R, and you dont leave N, but players can choose to attack enemies at the expense of having those enemies be able to attack back. It's important to note that warframe abilities that already cross the gap dont trigger this.

If you are in R

• you can still deal damage to enemies in N, but doing so grants them a few moments where they can fire back at you. They dont leave N, and you dont leave R, but players can choose to attack enemies at the expense of having those enemies be able to attack back. It's important to note that warframe abilities that already cross the gap dont trigger this.
• you can still interact with terminals, but whilst hacking you are vulnerable to N
• you can still interact with switches, but again, doing so makes you momentarily vulnerable to N
• you can still pick up objectives, but doing so makes you vulnerable to N for the duration of the pickup animation. dropping them also makes you vulnerable for a second.
• basically, anything that players currently CAN'T do in R can now be done at the expense of being momentarily vulnerable to N
• also, whilst in the vulnerable state, players can grab pickups as per normal.

The metaphorical explanation.
Imagine two yards, separated by a fence, one yard is N the other is R.
The children cant throw balls at the kids in the other yard because of the fence that is in the way.
But if there is a gate in the fence any of the player-character children (never said it was a good metaphor) can choose to open the gate to throw balls at the other children, however, whilst they stand there with the gate open, they can of course be hit by balls.

 

The purpose of the change is to give players the option of interacting with the opposite plane, with an appropriate downside to this.
If a player actually wants to use R as it currently is, it is simply a matter of not shooting enemies in N (something you cant do right now anyway) and just legging it to wherever they need to go.