World on Fire, Again.

[Almagnus1]

10 hours ago, Inquizitor said:

Ember is probably most broken WF vs lvls 40-50 max.

If this were true, why does my Inaros build not give a rip about any infested up to, and including, the level 100 sorties?

And for that matter, why can I use the same Inaros build to dive into nullifier bubbles and shoot the nullifier in the face (which is oh so satisfying =D ), while almost every other Warframe goes running away screaming like a scared little girl?

[(PSN)aiptekfanboy]

On 9/16/2017 at 2:43 AM, ShogunNoir said:

This isn't anything that hasn't been said before, but the World on Fire ult really needs to be changed to a more interactive ultimate for Ember. Purely because of the people that abuse it's unholy range and power. 

If I'm in a public Fissure Extermination, instead of Warframe being the usual ninja-hack-and-slash-shoot-'em-up awesomeness, when a WoF Ember joins it turns into a hiking simulator where you collect 10 golden orbs from ashes and continue to the green arrow. It removes any fun from the Fissure missions because you're just following the Ember (or multiple Embers) in their wake of destruction.

And Interceptions; I came across an example where there were 3 WoF Embers all idling on a point with WoF active. I decided to leave in the end because I didn't much like the idea of waiting around for however many rounds those players want to play.

And I'm sure I'll draw the ire of the Meta community with such quality lines of 'If you don't like it then go Solo' or 'I haven't got time to go around killing enemies' and my favourite 'I only go public so that I can use other people's relics'  

But I don't see why I should have to go Solo. On the rare occasion that I want to join a team, I want to feel like I'm actually contributing, not following in their footsteps because I was foolish enough to expect to KILL something. (Being a Harrow main, this can prove especially problematic) And because it seems the only reason I'm here is to give the Meta player another relic to choose from.

That's my rant done, I'll leave you to your regularly scheduled program.  

 

Nope i am running mods that let me run faster than the ember and by the time it gets there my atomos or quanta cubes or amprex or other prime modded riven modded weapon has killed everything plus for fun its either prism laser kills or even a modded to run frost frame with long range make emberangry avalanche or just farm a point with endless avalanche soo no ember kills

 

[Mattoropael]

1 hour ago, Almagnus1 said:

If this were true, why does my Inaros build not give a rip about any infested up to, and including, the level 100 sorties?

And for that matter, why can I use the same Inaros build to dive into nullifier bubbles and shoot the nullifier in the face (which is oh so satisfying =D ), while almost every other Warframe goes running away screaming like a scared little girl?

Now they'll say that "BUT INAROS DOESN'T INTERFERE WITH OTHER PLAYERS", despite the fact that a long Mot run with its old T4 300% damage multiplier is the only starchart content that is remotely threatening to Inaros.

And they'll wave that flag around as if they actually enjoy any of the trivial, newbie-tier content that they clear for a purpose (e.g. alert, invasion, low-tier fissures), like there is any fun to be had against super-low level enemies that die if you so much as sneeze at them with your fully decked out, sortie-ready frames and weapons.

Ember doesn't make super-low level missions unfun. It makes the unfun super-low level missions efficient.

 

Edited October 7, 2017 by Mattoropael

[Mattoropael]

11 hours ago, DeckChairVonBananaCamel said:

95% damage reduction, which is nothing compared to knocking down every enemy with firequake, preventing them from attacking to begin with.
(also valkyr can get >80% damage reduction just off her base armour+steel fiber)

secondly, mesa cannot recast shattershield whilst peacemaking, and with an efficiency build (so that you can get the most out of peacemaker) you get 10 seconds out of shattershield

lastly, if you have ever gone up against ancient disruptors, you know that their aura reduces damage from warframe abilities by 90%, allowing infested enemies to close the gap and destroy you (world on fire is also affected by this, but you can still use your normal weapons with it active)

I don't even have a truly optimal build, and I can still smell the bovine excrement.

And just an FYI, Ember's WoF only works against 5 targets within range, and that extends to Firequake. Even with Firequake, the more enemies that you can't kill get in range, the less efficient it gets as CC. It improves Ember's survivability when she fails to kill stuff for various reasons, but it isn't anywhere as broken as you're trying to make it sound like.

 

Edited October 7, 2017 by Mattoropael

[Almagnus1]

1 hour ago, Mattoropael said:

Now they'll say that "BUT INAROS DOESN'T INTERFERE WITH OTHER PLAYERS", despite the fact that a long Mot run with its old T4 300% damage multiplier is the only starchart content that is remotely threatening to Inaros.

And they'll wave that flag around as if they actually enjoy any of the trivial, newbie-tier content that they clear for a purpose (e.g. alert, invasion, low-tier fissures), like there is any fun to be had against super-low level enemies that die if you so much as sneeze at them with your fully decked out, sortie-ready frames and weapons.

Ember doesn't make super-low level missions unfun. It makes the unfun super-low level missions efficient.

 

The truth about the low level mission (like anything below 20) is that a weapon like this:

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Akstiletto_Prime/t_30_22220032_193-1-5-204-0-10-206-2-5-209-4-5-263-5-3-487-6-10-543-7-10-605-3-10_204-7-193-6-206-6-605-7-209-11-263-7-487-8-543-6/en/3-0-80

Is all you really need to get through them.  They have no challenge especially if you have any ranked mods of note.

That means that if I'm on something like an exterminate with that Akstiletto Prime, and I ever get out in front of the pack, nobody will ever get another kill again for the rest of the mission.  I can also just sweep the a full auto burst across a bunch of mobs someone is fighting and have them all die... while they stand there and feel dumb about it.  Excavations are about as easy, as I can sit merrily at the extractor and kill off anything as soon as I spot it, and do so solo, so I can keep dragging players into higher extractions until they force an extract.

I mean, if that's the behavior we're trying to curtail, nerfing Ember isn't going to help with it because it comes down to the player, NOT the skills.

[DeckChairVonBananaCamel]

2 hours ago, Mattoropael said:

I don't even have a truly optimal build, and I can still smell the bovine excrement.

(image)

And just an FYI, Ember's WoF only works against 5 targets within range, and that extends to Firequake. Even with Firequake, the more enemies that you can't kill get in range, the less efficient it gets as CC. It improves Ember's survivability when she fails to kill stuff for various reasons, but it isn't anywhere as broken as you're trying to make it sound like.

 

show us your build, will you?

[Djego27]

On 7.10.2017 at 1:48 AM, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

.I personally think the easiest way out is treating Embers kit as a mix between the reworks done for Saryn and Excalibur. But making frames more like each other is a real problem too. So we need suggestions. Its why im against just talking about wof as a problem amd not something that could be expanded on.

The easiest way would be to make a actual suggestion that could be implemented by DE instead of complaining on pages for no end. Alternatively you could consider a discussion about solutions made by people playing Ember a fair bit. Just a idea.

Edited October 7, 2017 by Djego27

[Djego27]

On 7.10.2017 at 8:58 PM, Almagnus1 said:

If this is true, Ember would be able to solo Heiracon until the level 50s start spawning.  However, the level 30 infested ancients are strong enough, and buff enough troops, that if you don't shoot them first, you will get overwhelmed.

Please, play Ember, and don't spew hate at her.

Why don't make a guide about Ember? The idea to defeat L50 infested solo with such a weak frame sounds incredible interesting and challenging to me and you could share your vast knowledge with other Ember players.

On 7.10.2017 at 9:01 PM, Almagnus1 said:

If this were true, why does my Inaros build not give a rip about any infested up to, and including, the level 100 sorties?

And for that matter, why can I use the same Inaros build to dive into nullifier bubbles and shoot the nullifier in the face (which is oh so satisfying =D ), while almost every other Warframe goes running away screaming like a scared little girl?

For the same reason parents put training wheels on the bike of her 3 year old.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

20 minutes ago, Djego27 said:

The easiest way would be to make a actual suggestion that could be implemented by DE instead of complaining on pages for no end. Alternatively you could consider a discussion about solutions made by people playing Ember a fair bit. Just a idea.

Where was the complaining? Who are you trying to quote, because its not me.

Alternatively, you could search back in the post, or several pages back on this sub forum to fimd my suggestions.

And alternatively, you could read the post you just quoted for the second point you brought up.

[Djego27]

Well you go on from page one that you do not like WOF spam at lower levels since it makes games very boring for everybody(where I fully agree) and mprime to some degree(even if I hardly see a slow nova in sortis this days, leave alone on the starmap where people just use speed novas). However you do not present a solution to the problem that you see.

Would you be so kind to link your suggestion, because I can not see it in the thread here.

I did read the post I did quote fully. While it is easy to point at CC, how would the game look like without it? Does it raise the skill gap if you play a frame that has to need to use a ability to stop imminent damage momentary because you would die to it in less then a second compared to perma CC, cloak, insane EHP or plain god mode that basically disable most of the game mechanics?

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

2 hours ago, Djego27 said:

Well you go on from page one that you do not like WOF spam at lower levels since it makes games very boring for everybody(where I fully agree) and mprime to some degree(even if I hardly see a slow nova in sortis this days, leave alone on the starmap where people just use speed novas). However you do not present a solution to the problem that you see.

Would you be so kind to link your suggestion, because I can not see it in the thread here.

I did read the post I did quote fully. While it is easy to point at CC, how would the game look like without it? Does it raise the skill gap if you play a frame that has to need to use a ability to stop imminent damage momentary because you would die to it in less then a second compared to perma CC, cloak, insane EHP or plain god mode that basically disable most of the game mechanics?

For one, i detest molecular prime, while only sympathizing, not really agreeing, with people who feel the same about world on fire. But yes, its spammy.

The post you quoted was me sqying it should be toned down and regulated to a third ability, like Excalibur javelin ability, and the kit should amplify ability damage ala saryn. Thats what that post was talking about. If this is not a constructive suggestion, what is?

Edited October 8, 2017 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
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[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

@Djego27

Ember is in there somewhere

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

Also, without AOE cc. Area of effect is the problem. Putting an enemy or 2, 5, 7 to sleep. Cool. Putting 20+ to sleep is cheating. Maybe without aoe cc, DE would finally fix enemy scaling and implememt damage 3.0...but idk.

Edited October 8, 2017 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
Vauban is a cheat as bad as pre nerf mirage

[Almagnus1]

2 hours ago, Djego27 said:

Why don't make a guide about Ember? The idea to defeat L50 infested solo with such a weak frame sounds incredible interesting and challenging to me and you could share your vast knowledge with other Ember players.

Considering you're the one that claims to be able to sortie solo on Ember with a Mara Detron and a Boar Prime...

You first.

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by Almagnus1

[traybong111]

2 hours ago, Almagnus1 said:

Considering you're the one that claims to be able to sortie solo on Ember with a Mara Detron and a Boar Prime...

You first.

 

I mean, it's not impossible. Just not as convenient and/or efficient as, say, spamming 250% power strength Frost and waltzing through (in case of Grineer Sorties). I don't use Boar Prime as much (Strun Wraith is a better shotgun, fite me @Djego27) but it's a 100% status shotgun so with WoF's CC, Boar Prime's armor stripping, and Mara Detron's decent firepower an Ember could still handle Sorties. All "normal" content in Warframe can be solo'd easily except Trials and even then there's been players who cleared JV alone after 2 hours. 

And I feel Excavation trouble is mostly due to, you know, broke-d!ck-piece-of-sh!t drill--I will never not refer to video game drills this way--not really Ember herself, although that can still be circumvented by mass-purchasing Ancient Healer specters from New Loka for the low, low price of 2500 rep. 

Also, this isn't addressed to @Almagnus1, but a broad response to most WoF threads: For most Ember players, WoF is an important CC tool for a fragile frame with not-excellent CC and very little defensive ability. Give Ember and heat procs from her abilities better CC & damage and then we can talk about changing or replacing WoF altogether. Calling to "nerf" or replace WoF is a specific demand; so should your plan to "improve" Ember. And let's face it this is Waframe, there will always be other frames and weapons to speed through low level missions so you won't see me upset over losing WoF for that. 

[(PSN)Vexx757]

I 100% agree with this post. here's an idea, make it to where ember has to mark enemies 1st before she can activate wof.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

I 100% agree with this post. here's an idea, make it to where ember has to mark enemies 1st before she can activate wof.

Like....Enemies affected by a fire proc will be hit with wof? This includes fireball, fire blast, and fire procs from weapons. Then its basically los? What will you give to it for what your taking away?

[(PSN)Vexx757]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

Like....Enemies affected by a fire proc will be hit with wof? This includes fireball, fire blast, and fire procs from weapons. Then its basically los? What will you give to it for what your taking away?

basically, like the way ash`s bs is now and the mechanics.

[fatpig84]

Go ahead nerf WOF. My Amprex already out kill lazy WOF Embers and I will certainly outkill them even more after WOF is nerfed.
And if you nerf Amprex, I will just use another frame or gun.

The game meta will never stop evolving just because people are afraid that someone "out kills" them and leaves them with "no enjoyment".

Edited October 8, 2017 by fatpig84

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Vexx757 said:

basically, like the way ash`s bs is now and the mechanics.

Marking with abilities, sounds nice. Marking with the reticle, not so nice. But...i never experienced overheat, but what i would do for Ember would be to bring something like that into her kit too. Basically, either way it goes, wether reticle or fire procs from abilities, its not so random.

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

2 minutes ago, fatpig84 said:

Go ahead nerf WOF. My Amprex already out kill lazy WOF Embers and I will certainly outkill them even more after WOF is nerfed.
And if you nerf Amprex, I will just use another frame or gun.

The game meta will never stop evolving just because people are afraid that someone "out kills" them and leaves them with "no enjoyment".

It shouldnt be a nerf, it shouldnt be the limitations DE likes putting on things. We should give them exactly what we want and how we want it.

[(PSN)Vexx757]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

 Marking with the reticle, not so nice.

 

Gotcha! using the reticle to mark enemies is not so good right? now you understand why ash`s bs is rubbish I was making a point and you proved it with that comment. That aside I agree with what you said about fire procs and abilities affecting wof it stops people from spamming 4. I strongly advise you to take this to DE.

[fatpig84]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)WINDMILEYNO said:

It shouldnt be a nerf, it shouldnt be the limitations DE likes putting on things. We should give them exactly what we want and how we want it.

 

How about instead of what you want, what the other party want instead ? And please don't use "we".
You don't represent the entire WF community and neither do all of us share your same opinions.

Now personally I don't use Ember much, so a nerf won't stop my enjoyment in WF. 
Since I don't main her, so go ahead and nerf her WOF. I am neutral in this topic.

But a word of warning. Your recommendation will certainly make ALL Firequake builds useless.
And Firequake Embers already sacrifice 1 power strength slot for the augment and aren't certainly going to nuke anything high level.
Hell some have problems even at level 25 since they use overextended and stretch for range. 
Nerfing WOF targeting means Ember has 1 less CC at high level, even though it is not even a very reliable CC that only affects 5 targets at one time.

So do thread lightly and think about the side effects first before asking for a nerf or clunky reworks (and yes ASH bladestorm is a very bad rework, literally the worst one to look for inspiration).

Edited October 8, 2017 by fatpig84

[Almagnus1]

2 minutes ago, fatpig84 said:

So do thread lightly and think about the side effects first before screaming for a nerf or clunky reworks (and yes ASH bladestorm is a very bad rework, literally the worst one to look for inspiration).

They never will, and soon they'll be yelling to nerf the next big thing (like I've heard some comments on the Akstiletto Prime being a broken OP weapon - but it's really doesn't start getting strong until you've maxed 3 primed mods and Hornet Strike).

[(PSN)WINDMILEYNO]

10 hours ago, fatpig84 said:

 

How about instead of what you want, what the other party want instead ? And please don't use "we".
You don't represent the entire WF community and neither do all of us share your same opinions.

Now personally I don't use Ember much, so a nerf won't stop my enjoyment in WF. 
Since I don't main her, so go ahead and nerf her WOF. I am neutral in this topic.

But a word of warning. Your recommendation will certainly make ALL Firequake builds useless.
And Firequake Embers already sacrifice 1 power strength slot for the augment and aren't certainly going to nuke anything high level.
Hell some have problems even at level 25 since they use overextended and stretch for range. 
Nerfing WOF targeting means Ember has 1 less CC at high level, even though it is not even a very reliable CC that only affects 5 targets at one time.

So do thread lightly and think about the side effects first before asking for a nerf or clunky reworks (and yes ASH bladestorm is a very bad rework, literally the worst one to look for inspiration).

......Im not asking for a nerf. Im here talking to people. Now most people are just giving ideas for what they want taken away from Wof, not what they will add to it to compensate. I like your sass, but its misdirected. I think everything you have posted is obvious...and i would go so far as saying its common knowledge. Apparently when I said "we", i was generalising. Even though what i said was "we should give them exactly what we want and how we want it". To translate for you for clarification: we, I.E. the "forums", this beautiful website you and I are utilising to bicker back and forth on, in general, should be able to come to a consensus, on what is best for Ember. And you are doing the opposite of that, by simply giving up and saying to hell with it all. DE will do as they wish at the end of the day, but if there arent as many random ideas floating around, and mostly everyone is on the same page, maybe things wont be so bad. And i would never dream it would be me or my ideas. Itll probably be Archwizard or something. But please spare me the sass.

 

Edited October 8, 2017 by (PS4)WINDMILEYNO
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