Slash damage?

[khangalanga]

Can someone explain to me how slash damage works? If the ticks are off the base damage and not off the +slash damage, what does a mod like sweeping serration do?

[Rawbeard]

it's the damage you do to Slash from Guns'N'Roses...

kidding aside, even after 4 years I can't remember how exactly it works, so I have to check the wiki to remind myself. it calculates damage from the weapons base damage. only mods that increase that will affect it, aka untyped +damage, not +slash damage. this kinda makes sense?

Edited September 26, 2017 by Rawbeard

[Baterial]

 

[lukinu_u]

Slash status inflict 35% of your base damages (after base damages mods like serration) as finisher damages per tick each second on the target over 6 seconds for a total of 245%.
Finisher damages ignore armor and shield, so it's pretty decent.

Also, dont forget that the status effect take the percentage from the total base damages of the weapon and not only slash.
So imagine you use unmodded Jat Kittag and proc slash, the weapon only has 6.5 slash but the slash status will deal 35% of the base total base damages, so 35% of 130.

[khangalanga]

16 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

Slash status inflict 35% of your base damages (after base damages mods like serration) as finisher damages per tick each second on the target over 6 seconds for a total of 245%.
Finisher damages ignore armor and shield, so it's pretty decent.

Also, dont forget that the status effect take the percentage from the total base damages of the weapon and not only slash.
So imagine you use unmodded Jat Kittag and proc slash, the weapon only has 6.5 slash but the slash status will deal 35% of the base total base damages, so 35% of 130.

I got that, but that still doesn't answer what a mod that does, for example, +100% slash does for a weapon.

[lukinu_u]

14 minutes ago, khangalanga said:

I got that, but that still doesn't answer what a mod that does, for example, +100% slash does for a weapon.

Slash mods increase the slash damages of the weapon, meaning direct slash damages will be higher.
But these mods don't affect the status effect that is what deal the more damages on high level because of the armor bypass, so they are generally not worth the use.

[NinjaZeku]

8 minutes ago, khangalanga said:

I got that, but that still doesn't answer what a mod that does, for example, +100% slash does for a weapon.

While it doesn't make Slash procs stronger, it certainly does increase the initial, direct Slash damage.

Also, the higher a damage type is %-wise compared to the rest, the higher the chance to get a proc of that type over the rest.

E.g. on a weapon with 10 Impact / 10 Puncture / 10 Slash, each damage type has equal (33.3%) chances to produce a proc.
Add +100% Slash damage, and you'll have 10 / 10 / 20, giving you (more direct damage and) Slash procs 50% of the time.

[khangalanga]

4 minutes ago, lukinu_u said:

Slash mods increase the slash damages of the weapon, meaning direct slash damages will be higher.
But these mods don't affect the status effect that is what deal the more damages on high level because of the armor bypass, so they are generally not worth the use.

So what would be better in terms of damage output? A slash mod that does 100% or a toxin mod that does 100%?

Edited September 26, 2017 by khangalanga

[Kalvorax]

1 minute ago, lukinu_u said:

Slash mods increase the slash damages of the weapon, meaning direct slash damages will be higher.
But these mods don't affect the status effect that is what deal the more damages on high level because of the armor bypass, so they are generally not worth the use.

hmm..i always thought that the more of one type of damage (in this case slash) the higher chance it has to proc over the other damage types (based on status chance over all) and that the singular mods did not affect any damage output (like they SHOULD be, but dont)

[rapt0rman]

27 minutes ago, Kalvorax said:

hmm..i always thought that the more of one type of damage (in this case slash) the higher chance it has to proc over the other damage types (based on status chance over all) and that the singular mods did not affect any damage output (like they SHOULD be, but dont)

Well no, they do directly increase your slash damage as they should, but that doesn't increase your slash proc damage.

28 minutes ago, khangalanga said:

So what would be better in terms of damage output? A slash mod that does 100% or a toxin mod that does 100%?

To clarify, the main reason to increase your slash damage through +slash mods is to increase your chances to proc slash, the initial direct damage is only a side effect. An element's chance to proc is weighted based directly on their portion of the total damage, and impact/puncture/slash are weighted at 4x their portion of the total damage. 

For instance, if you have a 100% status viral/radiation tigris prime, you really only need one single viral proc (the rest would be wasted), and really you don't need any rad procs (the only reason rad is there is to reach 100% status). Aside from that first viral proc, you want as many of the procs as possible to be slash procs, so a +120% slash mod is a pretty common last slot.

Edited September 26, 2017 by rapt0rman

[lukinu_u]

1 minute ago, khangalanga said:

So what would be better in terms of damage output? A slash mod that does 100% or a toxin mod that does 100%?

In term of raw damages elemental mods are always better because they add from the total base damages of the weapon while physical mods add from their base on the weapon.
For example, with the Jat Kittag I already quote that has a base 6.5 slash, adding 100% slash will only add +5.6 slash, while adding 100% toxin will add it to the total base damages of the weapon, adding +130 toxin.

But considering status chance is affected by the proportion of each damages type on the weapon, adding elements is not always better. You also have to note that physical status have 4x more chance to happen. It's that important but it will be include in the following calculation, so I prefer to precise it.
So, let's imagine you have a weapon with 50% status chance, 30 impact damages and 20 slash damages.

• If you dont mod the weapon, you will have 50 damages, 50%*(30/(30+20))=30% chance to proc impact status and 50%*(20/(30+20))=20% chance to proc slash.
  Considering these values, you will have 20% chance to proc slash dealing 35% of base damages, so 20% chance of dealing additionnal (0.35*7)*50=122.5 damages that ignore armor per shot.
  So, each shot deal 50 damages + ~24.5 that bypass armor.
   
• Now, if you put a +90% toxin mod, you will have 95 damages, 50%*[(30*4)/(30*4+20*4+45)]=24% chance to proc impact status, 50%*[(30*4)/(30*4+20*4+45)]=16% chances to proc slash and 50%*[45/(30*4+20*4+45)]=9% chances to proc toxin.
  Considering these values, you will have 16% chance to proc slash dealing 35% of base damages, so 20% chance of dealing additionnal (0.35*7)*50=122.5 damages that ignore armor per shot.
  So, each shot deal 95 damages +~19.6 that bypass armor. (-4.9 finsher damages)
  Here, you get higher base damages BUT the damages that bypass armor are lower, and it's bad considering a single damage point can become hundreds when it bypass armor on high level armored units.
   
• Now if you put a +90% slash mod, you will have 68 damages, 50%*(30/(30+38))=22% chance to proc impact status and 50%*(38/(30+38))=27% chance to proc slash.
  Considering these values, you will have 27% chance to proc slash dealing 35% of base damages, so 20% chance of dealing additionnal (0.35*7)*50=122.5 damages that ignore armor per shot.
  So, each shot deal 68 damages + ~26.95 that bypass armor. (+7.35 finisher damages)
  From this point, slash damages are more beneficial than elemental mods BUT slash proc damages are affect by both base damages mods (serration, pressure point, etc...) and critical damages, so increasing base damages with a second damages mods such as heavy caliber would always be more beneficial. We will see with a +40% damage mod that is roughly equal to what happen if you already had Serration on your weapon.
   
• Now if you dont mod the weapon, you will have 70 damages, 50%*(42/(42+28))=30% chance to proc impact status and 50%*(28/(42+28))=20% chance to proc slash.
  Considering these values, you will have 20% chance to proc slash dealing 35% of base damages, so 20% chance of dealing additionnal (0.35*7)*70=171.5 damages that ignore armor per shot.
  So, each shot deal 70 damages + ~34.3 that bypass armor. (+9.8)
  This is is more beneficial than both other choice. You may says that you can fit both heavy caliber and a slash mod in your build and that's true, but in most of case, if you focus you build on slash, proc your weapon has more slash damages than the rest, so adding more slash to affect the status balance will be more effective but useless because you already majoritarily proc slash.
  Plus, weapon that focus on slash proc are generally used with crit to boost the proc damages, so you won't have any mod slot for a slash mod, especially if you use a Riven too.

[NinjaZeku]

45 minutes ago, khangalanga said:

So what would be better in terms of damage output? A slash mod that does 100% or a toxin mod that does 100%?

For pure damage, without taking into account procs and damage resistance values,
elemental damage Mods will generally outclass physical damage Mods.

The added elemental damage is based off the total base damage
[as an example, 30 base damage consisting of 10 / 10 / 10 IPS damage -> +100% Toxin -> 60 total damage]
while e.g. +Slash damage Mods only ever work for the portion of base damage that is already Slash,
meaning they're only really (and even then, only somewhat) useful on weapons where Slash makes up the majority of the base damage
[repeating the above example, 10 / 10 / 10 IPS damage -> +100% Slash -> 10 / 10 / 20 IPS, for 40 total damage].

edit: dangit @lukinu_u ya done did ninja'd me again :P

Edited September 26, 2017 by NinjaZeku