Goshawk3 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 You're right, I just saw more negativity and didn't really read the wall of text completely. I'll edit. Just find the abject negativity on social media to be kinda surprisingly high for what has been such a (comparative to expectations) smooth rollout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXFlippyXx Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Goshawk3 said: Here I was thinking that no one could possibly dislike POE. It's beyond amazing. Aaaand then there's people like you. Sad days :( Open your eyes, there is enough to complain about. Most of all the grind. And this coming from people that are grind tested. If they don't fix some of the stuff thats clearly bad I don't see DE keeping it's good reputation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desdemona-XI Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 2 minutes ago, DiabolusUrsus said: Because nobody knows that when they buy the segment, and the logical assumption is that buying the segment lets you start using it immediately. Unless something requires Argon, I can USUALLY assume I have enough resources stockpiled to build consumables without needing to farm first. The whole point of paying plat is not needing to wait, so slapping players with a second wait wall after they pay to skip the first is deceitful. That doesn't stop them from making money when people buy the segment thinking it is more useful than it is. There's another thread somewhere in this forum where the OP is complaining about feeling ripped off by this very problem, and they absolutely were. This is disgraceful. fair enough but let's compare it to other similar things. such as Kavats. you can buy incubator power cores for platinum. or kavat codes. or you can buy the starter kit. but the starter kit States clearly what the contents of the kit actually are. buying the fancier incubator upgrade segment for plat doesnt give you dna stabilizers or anything else that pairs with it. Now don't misunderstand me. i think making fish oil a required resource is as stupid as you do. especially for archwing beacons. in fact i kind of think archwing beacons being consumables in the first place is a bad idea. we never needed beacons to use submersible archwing or any other instance of archwing. why should we now? but I cannot fault DE for someone who bought before reading the label based on a baseless assumption. and nor can i say that DE is profiting off of this particularly when as you said fish oil and charges cannot be bought so even buying the segment while it saves time does not guarantee use of the item. so people are likely not inclined to buy it. in fact DE would make more plat if they released a skywing starter bundle with the upgrade, charge blueprint, and 100 charges or whatever pre-loaded. or just put charges up on market for plat as well. TL;DR I agree with the source of your grievance but I find the basis which you use to argue the point somewhat flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord-Nezekan Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 You know after i bought the damn archwing launcher segment, I looked for the gear at the market I was willing to pay more plats just so I can use archwing but no here you pay for nothing, you can buy segments for kubrow and kavats then buy the kavats and kubrow here in this case you can't and that is the problem you pay and you still wait lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toppien Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 you just have to wait 3 days to get the segment for free. whats the big deal? no like you cant...you know, run, or jump or use titania/zephyr/volt to travel the plains... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goshawk3 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, xXFlippyXx said: Open your eyes, there is enough to complain about. Most of all the grind. And this coming from people that are grind tested. If they don't fix some of the stuff thats clearly bad I don't see DE keeping it's good reputation Eyes are open, just apparently looking at a completely different game then you are. Or I just realize it's day two. You people are rabid. It's kinda disgusting for what's seemed like a pretty positive community that seems to like DE quite a bit. Day two of a patch and you're already talking about their entire reputation? Mmmkay lewl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goshawk3 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Just now, Toppien said: you just have to wait 3 days to get the segment for free. whats the big deal? no like you cant...you know, run, or jump or use titania/zephyr/volt to travel the plains... Careful being reasonable here or advocating patience. Neither seem to be popular concepts atm. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabolusUrsus Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Desdemona-XI said: fair enough but let's compare it to other similar things. such as Kavats. you can buy incubator power cores for platinum. or kavat codes. or you can buy the starter kit. but the starter kit States clearly what the contents of the kit actually are. buying the fancier incubator upgrade segment for plat doesnt give you dna stabilizers or anything else that pairs with it. Now don't misunderstand me. i think making fish oil a required resource is as stupid as you do. especially for archwing beacons. in fact i kind of think archwing beacons being consumables in the first place is a bad idea. we never needed beacons to use submersible archwing or any other instance of archwing. why should we now? but I cannot fault DE for someone who bought before reading the label based on a baseless assumption. and nor can i say that DE is profiting off of this particularly when as you said fish oil and charges cannot be bought so even buying the segment while it saves time does not guarantee use of the item. so people are likely not inclined to buy it. in fact DE would make more plat if they released a skywing starter bundle with the upgrade, charge blueprint, and 100 charges or whatever pre-loaded. or just put charges up on market for plat as well. TL;DR I agree with the source of your grievance but I find the basis which you use to argue the point somewhat flawed. You are wrong. Sorry, but you are. It'd be one thing if they offered an all-inclusive bundle, or if the blueprints for the charges were visible before buying the segment, or if the charges were available for credits. I agree that players should be expected to be informed about what they buy, but in this case the information IS NOT THERE. ANYWHERE. Designing a second wait-wall when players pay specifically to bypass the first wait-wall is bait-and-switch, no two ways about it. Perhaps this is just an oversight. I hope so. But DE still owes players who bought the segment an apology, and compensation for money wasted and time lost. (I am not among those players btw) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Temp0- Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Rawbeard said: same reason why you need a segment to use air support. because. Guess what... no one uses air support. Quote you just have to wait 3 days to get the segment for free. whats the big deal? no like you cant...you know, run, or jump or use titania/zephyr/volt to travel the plains... Well I personally tried 3 methods so far, Titania, Volt and Loki with sprint mods. All suck. All. freaking. suck. Titania would've been okey-ish even tho she has 0 utility but you can't mod for flight speed and her flight speed is just nothing. It's worse than sprint. I don't see myself running errands that sends you 3000m+ away total for some scrap of a standing. Unless they reduce archwing beacons cost by a shtton or replace components needed for it or make it one time deal - craft it once and forget about it - I don't see myself playing poe at all. Too much grinding overall, great map being butchered by fckn awful movement restrictions and a grind that has yet to bee seen even in Warframe. Edited October 13, 2017 by -Temp0- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord-Nezekan Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, Toppien said: you just have to wait 3 days to get the segment for free. whats the big deal? no like you cant...you know, run, or jump or use titania/zephyr/volt to travel the plains... Lol 3days? Do you even think for a second that maybe other people doesn't have as much time as you have to spend waiting or other people are just plain impatient. The issue here was never the time but the wait we are willing to pay to skip the waiting time to skip that 3 days your saying, but having to pay and get nothing is just plain ripoff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gravitus123 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I hate this whole update as a whole the amount of grind is insane its just grindwall after grindwall after grindwall and a decent open world is not gonna change that.Im not going to the plains until they fix their idiotic economy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiabolusUrsus Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 9 minutes ago, Goshawk3 said: Careful being reasonable here or advocating patience. Neither seem to be popular concepts atm. Lol. There is value in a strong and immediate negative response to bad policy. It gets that policy changed faster. There are plenty of good things about PoE. But gushing about how beautiful the scenery is or how neat other things are is not as useful as pointing out problems requiring immediate fixes. DE is not inexperienced at this point; some things should be obvious by now. Game bugs? Ok, give them time. But not this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volinus7 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Warframe takes tedium to another step(again). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arugula420 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Yeah for 175 platinum it's ridiculous I could not agree more. Without discounts you have to spend a minimum of $20 to get 175 plat, not 170 that would cost just $10, they had to slip in the extra 5 plat so you have to buy the 370 platinum for $20. $20 to be faced with a grind wall. Yeah that's really upsets me. Like a lot. I had a discount and happened to have EXACTLY 5 platinum (no joke), so I was lucky enough to have only spent $8. I still feel ripped off. Admittedly I should have known before I bought that it was going to cost resources, but the second I saw dojo requirement my instinct was to skip it. This feels like a huge cash grab and I feel like i have been tricked, or at least mislead. How are you going to tie sky archwing to the dojo? Smh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notlamprey Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Goshawk3 said: Just find the abject negativity on social media to be kinda surprisingly high for what has been such a (comparative to expectations) smooth rollout. Let's also not forget that quite a few people are struggling to have any progress saved at all, due to crashes. Questions about the pacing and whether grind requirements are reasonable are difficult to answer when you can't even get progress saved to see how you're "progressing." Some of my worst fears ended up not being borne out, which is great. However, there are problems with this update that will need a week 1 fix. Let's see what I can name off the top of my head: crashes preventing the registry of progress (resources and reputation gains, bounty rewards) Gara's crafting requirement of 2000 Kuva, which isn't even attainable for players until they've completed TWW - seems to really push her as a plat purchase. It feels like purchase-pushing by the back door, since DE ended up including her with PoE instead of delaying her "free crafting route" as they had previously planned to do. Instead, she's in day one and requires things that almost no people newly entering the game will be able to do for many days. I think it's reasonable to ask that DE change that Kuva requirement to a different resource - one which newer players can get access to. Things that will need to be addressed in some manner relatively soon: balancing issues with AoE and DoT damage sources from Plains enemies - this one's arguably a subjective niggle, but it really hurts the usefulness of sentinels. general spoiler troubles and confusion for newer players when it comes to how everything in Cetus is supposed to work - again, arguably minor. i'd just like to see improvements here if it's feasible to make some. I wouldn't really call this a smooth rollout relative to expectations. My experience with crashes may not be representative of the average experience, but for me things have not been anywhere close to "smooth." Edited October 13, 2017 by yerpmalton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanchak Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 9 hours ago, TankHunter678 said: Frankly with how it was hyped... there really should of been no cost and no need of foundry segment. It should of just been innate once you got your archwing. I mean we did not need a foundry segment, or consumables, to be able to do sharkwing. Why should we need it to be able to just fly in the air? Exactly this. Not only are "maxed" focus schools not maxed anymore, but archwing suddenly needs.... fish oil.. and foundry segments lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toppien Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 14 minutes ago, Gravitus123 said: I hate this whole update as a whole the amount of grind is insane its just grindwall after grindwall after grindwall and a decent open world is not gonna change that.Im not going to the plains until they fix their idiotic economy i think you dont get this game is about grind...and the economy works fine, works better than any other f2p game out there cuz you can unlock anything that cost plat if you sell prime parts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamspie Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I could live with the fish oil if we got more then 50 charges like say 200 then i would not mind as much. or even make the bait worth while used it and only one small fish came in a large lake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbybe01234 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Not only expensive and time consuming (~10 hours straight farming for me) but you'd be surprised how easily you can go through the charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomitous Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) I always find myself subconsciously avoiding using consumables, *especially* if they're expensive.. Even if they cut the price in 1/6 down to 25 I can't even see myself using Archwing because I would always be thinking 'if I waste a charge now I'm going to need to fish for an hour later this week.' RIP Edit: Thought process: 'Eh I can get there without using a charge' *proceeds to grindingly dash/slide/jump/slide/jump/slide/jump for 2 minutes* ↑ Dozens, hundreds of times in the upcoming months, the above will play out in my head. ↑ If they had only made it different, I could just blast off and get there fast and fun on my Archwing. A quest unlock or a higher up front building cost for the module would have been ok, a consumable is just a mistake. Edited October 13, 2017 by Vomitous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord-Nezekan Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 9 hours ago, nickelshark said: "Happy fishing Tenno!" This is what they meant you will burn in eternity fishing for fish oils hahahah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scylax Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 35 minutes ago, Vomitous said: Even if they cut the price in 1/6 down to 25 I can't even see myself using Archwing because I would always be thinking 'if I waste a charge now I'm going to need to fish for an hour later this week.' Yep. If there are any sort of consumables for AW in PoE, I'm not going to bother using it. Consumables are dumb -- just an excuse to drain resources to prevent players from building up too many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carnage2K4 Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 14 minutes ago, Scylax said: Yep. If there are any sort of consumables for AW in PoE, I'm not going to bother using it. Consumables are dumb -- just an excuse to drain resources to prevent players from building up too many. ... isn't the point of building up resources to use them when something new comes a long you need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawbeard Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 1 hour ago, -Temp0- said: Guess what... no one uses air support. first they came for the gypsies, but I was no gypsie, so I said nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desdemona-XI Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 The information is there. you buy the segment. thats it. theres no footnote saying "segment + charges" the air support foundry segment upgrade doesnt come with free charges and does not have to say it doesn't, because if it did, it would say so. That is my point. if it's not mentioned. it's not included and they arent obligated to tell you everything a plat purchase Does NOT give you. now granted warframe skins do go the added mile and say "warframe not included" but that much honestly should be obvious in the first place. and it Does not have that footnote for a large number of other things.. even when you buy a warframe it says "slot and reactor included" if it didnt. you shouldnt expect it to be included in the first place. and if you do that's your own damn fault. Now I agree that there should be a method of attaining charges without having to fish for them. and I agree that a bundle would actually be a good idea. but they cannot be called out of false advertising because someone made a baseless assumption about the contents of a purchase that were by no means said to be included. with every other purchase that contains more then one thing. it lists the contents very explicitly. if it doesn't. then the only thing you get is the thing you bought. So you blaming DE for that is frankly unjustified and wrong. They never claimed charges would be included and if there were they would say so. because in every other purchase the full contents are always listed. DE is not responsible for someone who didnt bother to read or think. so you attacking them for this when they did nothing wrong other then make skywing charges use a stupid and illogical resource is actually horrendously unfair of you as a consumer. that's no different buying a car and demanding that you get spare seats, a full set of spare wheels and a spare chassis when this was at no point even implied by the notice of sale. I'm sorry but in every other branch of commercial sale You get ONLY what they say you'll get. you dont buy a sandwich at subway and get a free bottle of ketchup to take home with you. it doesnt work that way in any branch of life. and you expect DE to make an exception just because you expected them to give something they never offered in the first place? well arent you a special little snowflake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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