Please Don't Make Me Fish

[Lisztomaniac]

7 hours ago, Inquizitor said:

Well, i personally like fishing. (But not without Resource booster).

Okay, first of all: you dont have to fish / do the mining. Its not like a MUST-DO, you can live without it too, noone is forcing you.

2nd: I am aware, that ranking up with ostrons requires some fish parts, which are in amounts 1 to maybe 10, so that should not be any problem for experienced player.

3rd: as i said, they are tradeable->for lazy Tenno.

4th: Root issue? Excuse me, but what? Fishing is great, only good non-combat activity that requires patience and little skill. That is all to it, And besides, its not any issue, thing is, you wont ever need the fish parts to complete a story quest or something. Its all just optional part of the game.

5th: They improved fishing several times, baits now lasts longer, Luminos crafting time was reduced...what more can you ppl ask for?

Try to ...enjoy the game for once, instead of pressing 4 as ember and wiping out the entire populations of enemies, geez. (sorry, Xbox user, idk which button it is on controller actually...)

i love these post, where the guy assumes there is some science to fishing, and that why people are complaining instead of the mindnumbing easy and tedious grind it is (easier things become tedious faster).

Well, i personally like fishing. (But not without Resource booster). so you like fishing  when you spend plat to do it? do i need to say more?

as i said, they are tradeable->for lazy Tenno. you mean they are tradeable for those who dont want to spend their entire days fishing in a ninja space game? F*** those lazy A******s who came to play the core gameplay of the game right? (some of which dont have time to lose fishing cause they have jobs, you know? the things lazy fucks dont get in favor of sitting in front of a screen to fish virtual fish).

the ROOT ISSUE is that a sizeable part of the game, its locked behind an activity that (while i respect that you like it, and i used to like it too) by no means should act as a hard gate  to acces parts of your loadout that you cant get anywhere else. as an example: i havent gotten arcanes for my S#&$, cause i dont like raids, but i know that if i were to need the arcane i would haave to play the game i came to play to get them, instead of playing chinesse checkers for hours on end to unlock said arcanes.

i understand that fishing makes you feel high and mighty cause you think its something tricky to do, and youve convinced yourself youre not wasting your time fishing virtual fish, so now you want that times worth by having S#&$ someone else cant, but those players didnt come to the @(*()$ game to fish, so no part of the progession in your loadout should ever be locked behind it, its fishing fun? yeah quite, should fishing stay in the game? of course, should fishing keep taking the spotlight from the main gameplay? hell @(*()$ no.

you want to spend days on end fishing, find a fishing simulator, or better yet, let me remind you fish exists in real life, you can even taste them and everything. 

 

5th: They improved fishing several times, baits now lasts longer, Luminos crafting time was reduced...what more can you ppl ask for? for it to not be a hard gate blocking access into a part of our loadout?

Try to ...enjoy the game for once, instead of pressing 4 as ember and wiping out the entire populations of enemies, geez. (sorry, Xbox user, idk which button it is on controller actually...)  i want to enjoy the game, but this was never advertised to me as  fishing simulator, get a @(*()$ clue.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Lisztomaniac

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

1 minute ago, BlackCoMerc said:

First, thanks for this. Now I have it on good authority that the open world of Destiny 2 is worth a look.

Second...your post focuses on a big concern. Of late, the business model in Warframe is infringing on fun. 

I get that DE need to pay investors. And eat. In that order. At the same time, if your first thought at every turn is "how hard can we make this to get by playing" you WILL drive away your players. It's Golden Eggs versus the goose and DE has begun squeezing the goose AWFULLY hard of late.

This started with Nitain. It has no basis in Lore. It's just a Pay to Progress road block to encourage Plat sales.

It continued with relics. Invalidating previous time spent with new relics every Prime release was harsh.

Now, look at tradable fish and the Gara grind.

The Business Model has become very heavy handed in the last year. So heavy I won't support it like this. I'm purposely not buying Gara. I'll just run a bounty and then.

DE needs to take a HARD look at their business model. Maybe sit down with the parent company. 

There's a line a lot of free games eventually cross. I call it "The Break Point" nut it's the point at which the majority of your sound, reasonable customers determine that the grind is so harsh it's simply a waste of their time to even play.

DE isnt there. Yet. But they are headed that way. And once you cross that line, you're left mostly with your hardcore borderline addicts, who pride themselves on NOT paying and instead resolve to grind, like some twisted competition between their patience and the deviousness of devs trying to milk put some cash.

Don't cross that line. You don't want to go down that road.

 

Indeed. I think its a good point to raise. I know I was a bit sceptical after Perfect World bought part of them, as I have played games that they have driven into the ground before. The business modle is what makes this game good, and if they activly mess with it, they are going to loos players. at the very least the old ones that feel slihgtly alienated because most of there gient hordes of stuff are useless.

I think a very good example of a free to paly gone bad is Spirle Knights. I was a beta player. the game was bought out from the main company and they took away some of the croe mechanics in favor of a pet systme ( you could collect mateiral in the missions and the construct "gates" with them orignaly- it gave you money and you to vote on the next dugon tile sets). they got rid of passive energy gain in favor of just haveing payed energy (you got 100 per day of mist eneergy to use for crafitng or elevators to advace a level up. or you could buy cryistal energy that you could ahve over the 100 cap of. mist energy regneorated over the corse of a day), removed elviator costs, and then changed up how crafting worked a bit. the last content update they had wiped the old levleing systme for wepons so that you need to use some sort of token on them with a CHANCE to level them up. not passive, not garenteed, but a chance. of corse you could these crystals in bulk for cash. they also introduced revive tockens that you could buy rather then using mist or your own health like befor.   Due to these changes, the player base is so small now that it is a shadow of its former self, with a shell parent company keeping it on life support. they live off of loot box type cosmetic things and it is the only content they have relese in the past 3 or 4 years. 

its not the best comparison, but I have seen the downfall of other games too. vindictus for instance just got kind of odd an not worth the grind too.

I also am not going to buy gara outright. I only buy platnum if i have a huge discount, but I know that I would probibly be considred a whale as far as spending goes. and this whale is heading for diffrent waters if this contunines.

I also helped to build a small comapny that I work for, and I know that VC is vishious. there is a board that more thn likely reviews all of waht DE makes and tells them how they have to structure things. its usualy buisness people too, many whom do not care much for the players. that has to be the most depressing and maddening thing or a content creator- being told you have to force your players to buy things. Just look at the add in time square- they bet on a lot of new palyers with a very large ad campaine, and if we look at a lot of the plat costs in the planes they are structured very low however you need a lot of that material. so in short, the crafting materials you can buy in stacks of 10 and whatnot for 8 plat might cost you a lot more to actly make the thing once you do out how many you may need. Id like to take the cost of the things it takes to make gara, in tradabule form or buyin direct form the venders, and see if it is more then buying her outright. I have a feeling its a "discount" to get her with plat somehow, but the other thigns in the packs might add value to it. 

if we brake value down its about pain points. where is the cusomters pain. for warframe, its mostly been time. your pain is the time it takes to get something with a set drop rate or whatnot. We dont have rare enemys or rare nodes that spawn in that have a rare chance to drop a rare... but we do have rare fish now. Grind has alwas been a way to get palyers to buy things, but its the ability to add in pain of the palyer without... well killing them. high grind walls are fine, but when they are too high, people dont bother to climb them.

Also, I will be honest, Desinty 2s open world is awesome, although you will end up doing the same mini events a lot. they change up the dialog and sometimes the enemy types so its not too bad plus there is a "heroic" trigger that makes each one a bit harder and give better loot. it feels more alive then PoE, and has a lot more to do. there are also little instances that you cna spawn into (lost sectors), and its very hard to tell when you are in one becasue the loading is seemless. one of the only ways to tell is if you cant see other palyer tags. Point being however its big, loads well, and has never crashed on me. Not a hell of a lot to do with glimer, and right now Id guess there are a lot less wepons to find then arframe or borderalnds has... but they feel rewarding to use.  Hell PvP is fun!- you get an itme for being in the match and wep stats are just based on the rate of fire and otherwise (level does not matter), the only thing that changes is how much exp you get. honstly exp isnt an isshue andI only once fond someting that was too high a level. the only bullet spondges are the thigns with armor but they are ment to be. you can kill somehting much higher levle then you... it just can kill you a lot faster then you can it. Clans even are somewhat better then warframe. they have a weekly cap on how much exp one charictor can give to it, and thus insentivises big guilds. its near impossibule to do alone also, and gives rewords for palying with guild mates. warframe tends to favor the lone wolf when it omes to clan reserch and the like, but this is very much the opposit.

[Lisztomaniac]

5 hours ago, Inquizitor said:

Well, idk what else should i say, but this feature was awaited for some time, and is also a part of the game. Lots of people actually like a feature that doesnt involve endless murder.

Remember conclave? Rarely anyone knows it, or participates in it, hates it and ignores it, yet it is the part of the game, same like Fishing. (But at fishing, you are less likely to ragequit after 10 minutes).

If you have something else that "attracts" you to the game, stick to it then, and ignore the other stuff that you dont like ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

are you forced to do conclave to fishing gameplay or for something usefull at all outside conclave?

if you cant see how you just negated your own point i cant help you.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Lisztomaniac

[BlackCoMerc]

52 minutes ago, Fluff-E-Kitty said:

Indeed. I think its a good point to raise. I know I was a bit sceptical after Perfect World bought part of them, as I have played games that they have driven into the ground before. The business modle is what makes this game good, and if they activly mess with it, they are going to loos players. at the very least the old ones that feel slihgtly alienated because most of there gient hordes of stuff are useless.

I think a very good example of a free to paly gone bad is Spirle Knights. I was a beta player. the game was bought out from the main company and they took away some of the croe mechanics in favor of a pet systme ( you could collect mateiral in the missions and the construct "gates" with them orignaly- it gave you money and you to vote on the next dugon tile sets). they got rid of passive energy gain in favor of just haveing payed energy (you got 100 per day of mist eneergy to use for crafitng or elevators to advace a level up. or you could buy cryistal energy that you could ahve over the 100 cap of. mist energy regneorated over the corse of a day), removed elviator costs, and then changed up how crafting worked a bit. the last content update they had wiped the old levleing systme for wepons so that you need to use some sort of token on them with a CHANCE to level them up. not passive, not garenteed, but a chance. of corse you could these crystals in bulk for cash. they also introduced revive tockens that you could buy rather then using mist or your own health like befor.   Due to these changes, the player base is so small now that it is a shadow of its former self, with a shell parent company keeping it on life support. they live off of loot box type cosmetic things and it is the only content they have relese in the past 3 or 4 years. 

its not the best comparison, but I have seen the downfall of other games too. vindictus for instance just got kind of odd an not worth the grind too.

I also am not going to buy gara outright. I only buy platnum if i have a huge discount, but I know that I would probibly be considred a whale as far as spending goes. and this whale is heading for diffrent waters if this contunines.

I also helped to build a small comapny that I work for, and I know that VC is vishious. there is a board that more thn likely reviews all of waht DE makes and tells them how they have to structure things. its usualy buisness people too, many whom do not care much for the players. that has to be the most depressing and maddening thing or a content creator- being told you have to force your players to buy things. Just look at the add in time square- they bet on a lot of new palyers with a very large ad campaine, and if we look at a lot of the plat costs in the planes they are structured very low however you need a lot of that material. so in short, the crafting materials you can buy in stacks of 10 and whatnot for 8 plat might cost you a lot more to actly make the thing once you do out how many you may need. Id like to take the cost of the things it takes to make gara, in tradabule form or buyin direct form the venders, and see if it is more then buying her outright. I have a feeling its a "discount" to get her with plat somehow, but the other thigns in the packs might add value to it. 

if we brake value down its about pain points. where is the cusomters pain. for warframe, its mostly been time. your pain is the time it takes to get something with a set drop rate or whatnot. We dont have rare enemys or rare nodes that spawn in that have a rare chance to drop a rare... but we do have rare fish now. Grind has alwas been a way to get palyers to buy things, but its the ability to add in pain of the palyer without... well killing them. high grind walls are fine, but when they are too high, people dont bother to climb them.

Also, I will be honest, Desinty 2s open world is awesome, although you will end up doing the same mini events a lot. they change up the dialog and sometimes the enemy types so its not too bad plus there is a "heroic" trigger that makes each one a bit harder and give better loot. it feels more alive then PoE, and has a lot more to do. there are also little instances that you cna spawn into (lost sectors), and its very hard to tell when you are in one becasue the loading is seemless. one of the only ways to tell is if you cant see other palyer tags. Point being however its big, loads well, and has never crashed on me. Not a hell of a lot to do with glimer, and right now Id guess there are a lot less wepons to find then arframe or borderalnds has... but they feel rewarding to use.  Hell PvP is fun!- you get an itme for being in the match and wep stats are just based on the rate of fire and otherwise (level does not matter), the only thing that changes is how much exp you get. honstly exp isnt an isshue andI only once fond someting that was too high a level. the only bullet spondges are the thigns with armor but they are ment to be. you can kill somehting much higher levle then you... it just can kill you a lot faster then you can it. Clans even are somewhat better then warframe. they have a weekly cap on how much exp one charictor can give to it, and thus insentivises big guilds. its near impossibule to do alone also, and gives rewords for palying with guild mates. warframe tends to favor the lone wolf when it omes to clan reserch and the like, but this is very much the opposit.

Very good points. Thanks for this.

I think DE needs to tread carefully. It's reaching a point where playing is Unrewarding so paying CAN be rewarding. That's a bad direction.

[Lisztomaniac]

1 hour ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Very good points. Thanks for this.

I think DE needs to tread carefully. It's reaching a point where playing is Unrewarding so paying CAN be rewarding. That's a bad direction.

sadly i think the time for that mentality is before you reach the mainstream media, before you are actually trying to draw players from the mainstream gameming community, and even more important before you have any competition on the horizon (D2 is here, and better or not at least it has quality control).

as i wrote that post, DE decissions and timeline, more than an effort to grow, feels more like the decision of an investor to get as much money by killing the game, before they have to actually go against D2 in the market, the funny thing is, Destiny could have not compited with warframe had warframe gone down the right path, but as off now, warframe just feels like a free addspace for destiny 2. as i see it is like this:

come try this game thats has been nothing but endless grind for 4 years, with Devs that feel more and more greedy and disconected from their game  with each passing day or jump ship to this game made by an universally hated company (activision at least its greedy without pretenses), that at least has quality control, endgame, working pvp, at release all of which warframe lacks; i repeat 4 YEARS INTO THE GAME, now i know activision its a juggernaut compared to DE, but thats no excuse at this point, when activision released destiny 1, they fired the first shot, they were obviously aiming to take the spot on the market that they saw WF could perfectly fit, but what did DE changed in all the time it took from destiny 1 to destiny 2?, well they created an open world map to fish on.

let me make a prediction, if destiny 2 doesnt bury WF destiny 3 will.

DE seems so disconected from the gaming industry that this is how i picture it went:

random developer: "they released a S#&$ty game that resembles WF a lot, we need to do something before they release a sequel and up their game"

De developer shot caller: "a sequel? a year after the release? you crazy or something? that will never happend, now design me a new fish."

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by Lisztomaniac

[krc473]

7 hours ago, nms. said:

Even with the crap rewards, bounties are a far better option than fishing.

How about this for a novel idea?

You, someone that likes bounties takes people who like to fish with you. So, the people that like to do bounties and shoot things get to do that. And the people that like to fish get to fish.

Then, when your done, the fishers give the people that did the bounties some of the fish. You know, as “payment” for being carried through the bounty mission. This only works with clan/friends. One person does bounties three fish, the bounty doer gets lots of fish. Limiting factor: number of trades per day. Because you cannot stack piles of the same fish in trades.

I get that some people dislike fishing. But I like fishing, so my opinion may be more biased towards fishing. 

I do not mind that they are forcing us to fish. Fish are fairly easy to acquire in reasonable amounts. It is a feature that many Open World MMOs have. I have tried it on a few others, and WFs is the only one that is not just stick a rod in the water and wait.

I would much rather them just give us better bounty rewards (more aimed at vet players)than put fishing components in. Because, if they add fishing components, there is even less reason to do bounties.

[Lisztomaniac]

6 minutes ago, krc473 said:

How about this for a novel idea?

You, someone that likes bounties takes people who like to fish with you. So, the people that like to do bounties and shoot things get to do that. And the people that like to fish get to fish.

Then, when your done, the fishers give the people that did the bounties some of the fish. You know, as “payment” for being carried through the bounty mission. This only works with clan/friends. One person does bounties three fish, the bounty doer gets lots of fish. Limiting factor: number of trades per day. Because you cannot stack piles of the same fish in trades.

I get that some people dislike fishing. But I like fishing, so my opinion may be more biased towards fishing. 

I do not mind that they are forcing us to fish. Fish are fairly easy to acquire in reasonable amounts. It is a feature that many Open World MMOs have. I have tried it on a few others, and WFs is the only one that is not just stick a rod in the water and wait.

I would much rather them just give us better bounty rewards (more aimed at vet players)than put fishing components in. Because, if they add fishing components, there is even less reason to do bounties.

i like your solution as it forces player interaction (speaking from someone who tries to avoid it at all cost), and i think that would work in any other game, could have even become a stndard on any other game, but the current MM+trading+loading mechanics, would make this even more tedious than actually fishing, for this to work we should be able to trade in the plains.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Lisztomaniac

[Ayvuir]

Cetus npcs should sell fish for credits... they fish all the time and also receive it from ALL the players...

[krc473]

2 minutes ago, Lisztomaniac said:

i like your solution as it forces player interaction (speaking from someone who tries to avoid it at all cost), and i think that would work in any other game, could have even become a stndard on any other game, but the current MM+trading+loading mechanics, would make this even more tedious than actually fishing, for this to work we should be able to trade in the plains.

I am just basing it off experience. I have been able to carry this out with clan mates fairly easily. This may just be down to me having an on demand source of people to take. 

I too tend to avoid player interactions too - public games are not really for me. As for trading, myself, and the people I go with are MR15+, so plenty of trade capacity. The issue is time, it takes a while to do 10 trades (example). 

I do not know if we need trading in the plains itself. But it would seem reasonable to have it in Cetus - people do not return to their ships for hours.

[krc473]

2 minutes ago, Ayvuir said:

Cetus npcs should sell fish for credits... they fish all the time and also receive it from ALL the players...

Fish parts can be purchased for platinum. DE will not let you buy whole fish for credits. They also cannot implement this system, because it will open up a new issue. "Why can I buy fish for credits but not Argon Crystals**?" **insert any resource type.

 

The people of Cetus "eat" the fish. 

[Lisztomaniac]

4 minutes ago, Ayvuir said:

Cetus npcs should sell fish for credits... they fish all the time and also receive it from ALL the players...

this i dont understand, its a fishermen village, that needs to ask the offworlder to fish for them, what did they do all this time you werent here? THEY SELL THE SPEARS YOU DIDNT BRING THEM WITH YOU. the way i see it ostrons had all the tools to survive, but they have no clue on how to use them. also why cant i  keep guts/eyes to craft S#&$ and trade the rest for standing? do the ostrons really need eating fish eyes so bad?

[Lisztomaniac]

7 minutes ago, krc473 said:

Fish parts can be purchased for platinum. DE will not let you buy whole fish for credits. They also cannot implement this system, because it will open up a new issue. "Why can I buy fish for credits but not Argon Crystals**?" **insert any resource type. (cause ostrons cant get to the void to farm it, end of disscussion).

 

The people of Cetus "eat" the fish (doubt they eat the guts/eyes, having so much fish to go around).

man quoting in this forum is a hassle, sorry for the double post.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Lisztomaniac

[krc473]

2 minutes ago, Lisztomaniac said:

man quoting in this forum is a hassle, sorry for the double post.

My comment on credit sales was not just exclusive to a Cetus NPC.

If we get one NPC that does it, people will want more.

But, replace Argon Crystals with say, Neurodes (a rare resource on Earth). If the people of Cetus ever enter the plains, they can find these.

My argument against this is more along the lines of, if DE will do it once, why not let us buy everything (hmm, Nitains anyone?) for Credits?

People eat fish guts and eyes. It is not that much of a leap to see that the little Ostrons might do it too.

Essentially irrelevant to anything. Just a recipe using the eyes of fish.

Fish eye and Oyster soup

https://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/key-ingredient-fish-eyes-cary-taylor/Content?oid=3391559

[Kaedal]

I don't think the fishing is any more boring than running the same void fissures over and over hoping for that one elusive Prime part, but I do like the idea of making activities like fishing reward only cosmetics. Throw some helmets, syandanas, and attachments into the mix and I'd be more than happy if they completely removed every gameplay fixated reward from the fishing.

[Lisztomaniac]

25 minutes ago, krc473 said:

My comment on credit sales was not just exclusive to a Cetus NPC.

If we get one NPC that does it, people will want more.

But, replace Argon Crystals with say, Neurodes (a rare resource on Earth). If the people of Cetus ever enter the plains, they can find these.

My argument against this is more along the lines of, if DE will do it once, why not let us buy everything (hmm, Nitains anyone?) for Credits?

People eat fish guts and eyes. It is not that much of a leap to see that the little Ostrons might do it too.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Essentially irrelevant to anything. Just a recipe using the eyes of fish.

Fish eye and Oyster soup

https://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/key-ingredient-fish-eyes-cary-taylor/Content?oid=3391559

 

 

im a cook i know that every part of an animal can be given a use in the kitchen, but the thing is, if youre selling fish to someone that can cut it for you in your face, you can bet your sweet &#!, that im going to gift them the most eddible parts of the fish, and the rest im going to sell to someone that gives it more value (ie, she could cut the S#&$ up, give me what i need to craft my stuff or trade for standing and then keep the more edible parts for themselves). i mean at the end of the day its the ostrons the ones that want fish parts  to craft everything, so something tells me they dont eat those eyes to begin with.

youre partially righ about neurodes, since i would assume grineers would F*** the onstrons up if they tried to take neurodes from them , it can be argued that they can fishmine in secret spots, its harder to justify straight up going to grineers and taking their S#&$. (but lets stop using logic in a videogame here).

so while i understand that they wont do anything like npc selling fish, i dont expect them to, my point was that at least fish are justifiable as an npc item for credits, since its something common folk can get, even i have fished irl (which btw is actually mmore fun than WF fishing lol) and there are no fishing spots in my area, wanna know how many argon crystals ive held in my life?.

but anyway my solution its more in line with my the beggining of this post, i think it standing vs crafting materials shouldnt be a choice in PoE, when its as simple for the fish woman to just keep the edible S#&$ and give you the rest to craft stuff (youre giving them free food ffs). so i think they should give you reasidual fish parts when you trade them for standing, current system makes ostrons feel like ungrafull jerks ("look i know youve been gifting us fish, but now bring me more bones and eyes, cause i needed the ones you gave me, but i ate them").

"i know you needed those 50 fish oils to move around on the plains and fish more for me, but i really needed that oil for a massage, so go get more fish"

Edited October 30, 2017 by Lisztomaniac

[Inquizitor]

3 hours ago, Lisztomaniac said:

are you forced to do conclave to fishing gameplay or for something usefull at all outside conclave?

Something useful? Well, i can tell you what.

FASHIONFRAME

Celestia Syandana is the best looking syandana in the game (no doubts about it)...despite the fact that you need to keep doing the conclave tasks in order for its flames to be lit. ...

Conclave Skins for lots of weapons-looks awesome.

Conclave Sigils looks also great.

 

Recap: Conclave is rewarding....not in pleasure, but in fashion...

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

...

You know, the more I read the Forums, the more I'm starting to think I'm the only one that enjoy's fishing. Like, actually enjoy it. Progression and all.

Maybe I just don't take progression as seriously as everyone else seems to, but that's just my thought.

[krc473]

14 minutes ago, Lisztomaniac said:

but anyway my solution its more in line with my the beggining of this post, i think it standing vs crafting materials shouldnt be a choice in PoE, when its as simple for the fish woman to just keep the edible S#&$ and give you the rest to craft stuff (youre giving them free food ffs).

Personally, I do not mind that you have to pick between the two. I have been able to acquire enough fish materials that I can just turn them in for standing now. So, it makes very little difference to me.

I am biased, I like fishing. I can spare the fish for standing (). 

17 minutes ago, Lisztomaniac said:

even i have fished irl (which btw is actually mmore fun than WF fishing lol)

Cannot say I have gone spear fishing before. But, I have also gone fishing - it is far better in real life than a game. You get a fish, not a wasted afternoon...

[Lisztomaniac]

Just now, Inquizitor said:

Something useful? Well, i can tell you what.

FASHIONFRAME

Celestia Syandana is the best looking syandana in the game (no doubts about it)...despite the fact that you need to keep doing the conclave tasks in order for its flames to be lit. ...

Conclave Skins for lots of weapons-looks awesome.

Conclave Sigils looks also great.

 

Recap: Conclave is rewarding....not in pleasure, but in fashion...

which weapons/non conclave mods/ pets/ arcanes/ warframes or anything that alters your loadout does conclave give?

i love fashion frame and i plan on fishing only for the operator customizables (not even care about amps myself), but what people are mad about its the fact that an entire "weapon slot" in their loadout its locked behind hours upon hours of fishing. how would you feel if you could only equip an MK1-braton unless you got to the max standing on conclave? would that be fair for you?

on top of this, you can play lunaro instead of pvp conclave, complte the quest once in a while and that will keep your conclave standing going (two vastly diferent paths to the same content), compare this with the whole of PoE content locked behing FISHING AND FISHING ONLY, and your conclave-ostron standing comparison falls apart.

[Lisztomaniac]

23 minutes ago, mac10smg-ToaOfGreen said:

...

You know, the more I read the Forums, the more I'm starting to think I'm the only one that enjoy's fishing. Like, actually enjoy it. Progression and all.

Maybe I just don't take progression as seriously as everyone else seems to, but that's just my thought.

sorry but ill have to doublepost, this kind of mentality infuriates me, people come to the forums and call people like me ragers and entitled, withouth realizing the selfishness on their posts, "i like fishing you guys just suck at it/dont understand it/you guys want everything handed to you" its not a matter of liking or not, its the fact that fishing its not the main core of this game, im ok with fishing, but why does fishing need to lock gameplay altering items that you cant get any other way (unless paying ofc).

when you come to the game and say things like those you just show that you dont give a F*** about anyone but yourself, its ok that you like fishing but there are players out there that want to play the game they came to play and actually be rewarded for it.

none comes to the forums to ask for them to remove fishing, people are asking for fishing to stop being a wall and period, and the fishers come to the forums with a mentality of "if i did it you must do it F*** improvement to the system"

none comes to the forums and posts treads like "remove fishing cause F*** fishers" people are just asking to get to the same content in the way they have getting to the content all these years, by playing the game, you know like you before fishing got introduce, yet the fishers seem to want to keep fishing as a wall.

 the only reason i can think of that they want this stay the same, its the selfish mentality that they have spent hours fishing and they deserve to have access to gameplay altering mechanics, because deep inside they know fishing aint worth it and they dont want to feel like they wasted their times and here i ask, did you fish because you love to fish or have you convinced you love it so as to not feel stupid after all the farm?

and if this aint true, then let me ask, what good do you get out of having all that content locked behind fishing if changes would only benefit you? (even if they hurt your ego). do you really need the game to go downhill to feel your time wasnt wasted? wouldnt you rather have a more new player inclusive more option based game? do you really want the game youve been playing for years to turn into a fishing simulator? would you be ok if the things locked behind fishing were switched with the things locked behind conclave?

 

note: i dont complain about fishing because i hate it, i complain because the current state of fishing materials its a dangerous precedent we dont wand DE to think we accept, if we accept this, you might enjoy it, will you say the same when the game locks content behing macrame classes?

well when the game turns into a golf simulator i will at least be able to tell myself that i tried to put my grain of salt when it began turning into a fishing simulator.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Lisztomaniac

[Ryim_Drykeon]

First off I agree with the OP to some extent, and I see his/her point.

I also actually enjoy fishing in WF, so be sure to take my response below with a grain of salt (I said a grain, boys and girls. Not a truckload, lol)

While the Amp is behind the "fishing wall" as is Archwing on the Plains, I think something to remember is that those of us that have been here for months/years are playing "catch up" right now. If we had started today, we would have hit the Plains within a few hours of gameplay (I'm going with an average not a end-all). So we would have hit with fishing far before we unlocked Archwing, or TSD (a requirement to need an Amp). That being said, someone starting today, and fishing here-and-there just a little at a time would have tons of the needed resources by the time they actually needed them (again, an average as I'm sure a few would rush and not fish at all).

I'll use Salvage as an example: When you first start out for your first month or so, you are scraping along to gain Salvage. Every dang thing seems to need it at first and it goes faster than it comes in. Then, months later, you find yourself with millions of Salvage and nothing to spend it on. Or if something does require 50k Salvage, you don't even blink, or check how much you have as you know you have enough.

I do think DE should add fish components to the higher end Bounties, or perhaps just a mid-level "Fish Bounty" to allow the more experienced players to get those resources built up to where they should be faster. It would have been nice to reward long-term players with a resource bundle to get them going in the catch-up game, but hindsight is 20/20. I guess I'm say that DE doesn't need to change what fishing is used for, just that it would have been nice if they had given a little kickback to those that got them where they are today. How much to kickback would be another topic.

[Lisztomaniac]

9 minutes ago, Ryim_Drykeon said:

 

I'll use Salvage as an example: When you first start out for your first month or so, you are scraping along to gain Salvage. Every dang thing seems to need it at first and it goes faster than it comes in. Then, months later, you find yourself with millions of Salvage and nothing to spend it on. Or if something does require 50k Salvage, you don't even blink, or check how much you have as you know you have enough.

I do think DE should add fish components to the higher end Bounties, or perhaps just a mid-level "Fish Bounty" 

salvage example its the perfect example, salvage you can get in a variety of a diferent ways, fish you cant, and thats how we can resume the problems with fishing, if there were salvage orbs with an RNG chance to apear on every mission, and salvage was required to level syndicate standing, we would have had the same discussion 2 years ago (arguably since youd lock 3 weapons variations at most). but salvage isnt and it doesnt, fish are the only ones that is and do.

on the bold letters: i agree but i think the bounty would need to be at 50% of what a "common" player would get with fishing (so as to keep fishing as the fastest option for fish) "box of fish" sounds like a good bounty, but knowing DE itll be 1 fish eye.

Edited October 30, 2017 by Lisztomaniac

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

9 minutes ago, Lisztomaniac said:

sorry but ill have to doublepost, this kind of mentality infuriates me, people come to the forums and call people like me ragers and entitled, withouth realizing the selfishness on their posts, "i like fishing you guys just suck at it/dont understand it/you guys want everything handed to you" its not a matter of liking or not, its the fact that fishing its not the main core of this game, im ok with fishing, but why does fishing need to lock gameplay altering items that you cant get any other way (unless paying ofc).

when you come to the game and say things like those you just show that you dont give a F*** about anyone but yourself, its ok that you like fishing but there are players out there that want to play the game they came to play and actually be rewarded for it.

none comes to the forums to ask for them to remove fishing, people are asking for fishing to stop being a wall and period, and the fishers come to the forums with a mentality of "if i did it you must do it F*** improvement to the system"

none comes to the forums and posts treads like "remove fishing cause F*** fishers" people are just asking to get to the same content in the way they have getting to the content all these years, by playing the game, you know like you before fishing got introduce, yet the fishers seem to want to keep fishing as a wall.

 the only reason i can think of that they want this stay the same, its the selfish mentality that they have spent hours fishing and they deserve to have access to gameplay altering mechanics, because deep inside they know fishing aint worth it and they dont want to feel like they wasted their times and here i ask, did you fish because you love to fish or have you convinced you love it so as to not feel stupid after all the farm?

and if this aint true, then let me ask, what good do you get out of having all that content locked behind fishing if changes would only benefit you? (even if they hurt your ego). do you really need the game to go downhill to feel your time wasnt wasted? wouldnt you rather have a more new player inclusive more option based game? do you really want the game youve been playing for years to turn into a fishing simulator? would you be ok if the things locked behind fishing were switched with the things locked behind conclave?

 

note: i dont complain about fishing because i hate it, i complain because the current state of fishing materials its a dangerous precedent we dont wand DE to think we accept, if we accept this, you might enjoy it, will you say the same when the game locks content behing macrame classes?

well when the game turns into a golf simulator i will at least be able to tell myself that i tried to put my grain of salt when it began turning into a fishing simulator.

I was just making an observation, jeez.

I maybe expected a somewhat 'well, if that's what you think, then fine, but I still find it a problem' or something like that, but you just had to go ahead and write a 19-line essay about...mentality? And no less about a 2-line post that wasn't even meant to be taken seriously?

I mean...wow. Talk about overcompensating.

[Lisztomaniac]

20 minutes ago, mac10smg-ToaOfGreen said:

I was just making an observation, jeez.

I maybe expected a somewhat 'well, if that's what you think, then fine, but I still find it a problem' or something like that, but you just had to go ahead and write a 19-line essay about...mentality? And no less about a 2-line post that wasn't even meant to be taken seriously?

I mean...wow. Talk about overcompensating.

sorry didnt meant to feel like i jumped at your neck, i was just refering to the usual post i see in these threads (which its always a 2 line post), sorry if it felt like a personal attack if anything at least your post stated that it was your own opinion, i just used your comment as a point of reference wasnt actually refering to your post. sorry for the confusion.

[mac10smg--Toa_of_Green]

8 minutes ago, Lisztomaniac said:

sorry didnt meant to feel like i jumped at your neck, i was just refering to the usual post i see in these threads (which its always a 2 line post), sorry if it felt like a personal attack if anything at least your post stated that it was your own opinion, i just used your comment as a point of reference wasnt actually refering to your post. sorry for the confusion.

All good, I'm just glad I didn't get involved in an hour-long comment war :P