Focus 2.0 and the Operator

[Hixlysss]

Naturally by now news of the "500+ day grind to max out focus!" has started spreading around, people have heard about it and are generally unhappy with those numbers. So let's brainstorm possible solutions! I'll start off with some ideas of my own.

First off, lens not being required to gain focus. Big change, the idea is that instead of uses the lenses to gain focus, they simply increase the conversion ratio of affinity to focus points, for your school. And yes, this means you can 'equip' any focus school, but to unlock it you still need the points as we currently have them, this just removes the need for a lens to do it and instead the lens just provide a bonus gain, speeding up the process as a whole.

Second off, remove the convergence orb. It's just a distraction, and currently it's mandatory to grab to get any amount of decent focus, so it's already needed why make us have to run around and pick it up? Sometimes it spawns far away if you split up and by time you get to it it's either gone, or you do get it and by time you get back to where the fight is the duration has run out and it's wasted. On top of that, for some game modes it causes players to go off objective, running away and leaving the objective to die/fail to grab the orb. All in all, it's just...why?

Third, find a use for "extra" focus. Once someone maxes out a tree, what do they do with extra points? What do you do once you've maxed out all trees and are sitting on PILES of focus points? A few suggestions would be to allow us to convert focus from one school to another, at a reduced price naturally, and/or allow us to convert excess focus back into affinity, to, well, speed level our weapons as it were, funnel the affinity back into our warframe/weapons. Alternatively converting it into endo/kuva is an option but I don't see that happening imo.

Fourth...Increase the daily cap, increase the amount of focus we gain(or decrease the cost of focus itself), and provide us with more ways to gain focus beyond a straight 'convert affinity into focus', give us daily tasks that reward us with points for our equipped school or something. Currently the 'grind' for focus is just...tedious and boring. Just sit there and hack and slash and grind with no 'real' objective other than to get affinity. Sure there is the 'passive gain' of affinity, but that is nowhere near enough focus to do ANYTHING with the system, you have to dedicate your time to getting focus to any sort of reasonable level, and the amount of effort you put in is not even close to the returns you get.
It's like...you spend two months grinding out enough focus to give your operator some more HP. Two months JUST to make them able to survive a stray bullet from a level 60. Come on, we are supposed to be a VOID DEMON for crying out loud, and yet my warframe is a bigger badass than me? How the hell were the operators EVER feared by...anyone? We are weak, frail and clumsy...pathetic really.

Finally, we seriously need some other way to make our operators survivable beyond the waybound passives from two schools. Our operator's survivability should not be 100% dependant on a passive ability from a focus school or from arcanes. Give the operator a level, allow us to level them up somehow and gain more survivability with each level, let us feel some actual progression by using them, rather than having to rely on our warframes to get focus points for our operator's school so they can become somewhat better...I mean we can put lenses on our amps to gain focus while in operator mode, yet we can't even survive a stray shot, we have barely enough damage to take out a few troops before we are booted back to our frame after gettting 1 shot. You gave us the ability to get focus points with the operator, without making it so the operator can actually DO that, and that needs to change.

[NeithanDiniem]

It takes 500 days to get some of the best login rewards, people complain about everything these days. You dont need every focus school maxed out as fast as possible, you really only need the one you want to use and the unlinkable skills.

[Hixlysss]

2 minutes ago, NeithanDiniem said:

It takes 500 days to get some of the best login rewards, people complain about everything these days. You dont need every focus school maxed out as fast as possible, you really only need the one you want to use and the unlinkable skills.

The same thing was said about for honor, but once news got out about how long it would take, 7 years if I remember, to get EVERYTHING, that caused a massive drop in the playerbase, and a large amount of negativity towards the game and it's devs. Say what you will, some grinds are just too much.

Also keep in mind the 500 days is if you DEDICATE to focus farm, which in of itself is a dull and boring experience.

[SilentLogix]

8 minutes ago, Hixlysss said:

Naturally by now news of the "500+ day grind to max out focus!" has started spreading around, people have heard about it and are generally unhappy with those numbers. So let's brainstorm possible solutions! I'll start off with some ideas of my own.

Stuff isn't meant to be maxed out right away and with converting Brilliant Shards into focus (with a decent group you can get 5 captures a night cycle) it takes no where near 500 to max out although i do feel Brilliant Shards should give more than just 25k focus.

 

Agree completely with 2, 3 and 4 But not so much with the survivability of the Operator, a shield would be nice though, you have the ability to go invisible when ever you want and dash out of sight from the enemies it just takes getting used to if you actually want to actually use the operator for combat, along with a good amp upgrade. Not to mention they can't technically die, they just go back into the warframe.

 

[Soketsu]

So farming focus is mandatory right now ? for all school, I'm impressed...

[Hixlysss]

1 minute ago, Soketsu said:

So farming focus is mandatory right now ? for all school, I'm impressed...

If you want your operator to be halfway decent, yes. Unairu gives armor, vazarin gives hp, madurai gives 'ammo', zenurik gives energy, naramon gives movement. Admittedly you only really 'need' the first four, but for QoL you get naramon as well.

[NeithanDiniem]

5 hours ago, Hixlysss said:

The same thing was said about for honor, but once news got out about how long it would take, 7 years if I remember, to get EVERYTHING, that caused a massive drop in the playerbase, and a large amount of negativity towards the game and it's devs. Say what you will, some grinds are just too much.

Also keep in mind the 500 days is if you DEDICATE to focus farm, which in of itself is a dull and boring experience.

Why are you comparing 2,555 days to 500?

[Hixlysss]

6 hours ago, NeithanDiniem said:

Why are you comparing 2,555 days to 500?

Because the 500 days is only if you hit the cap each day. If you dedicate yourself to the focus farm grind. The casual players get roughly 20-30k a day, no where NEAR that cap, bringing the grind up from 500 days...to a few years.

[HollowWitch]

13 hours ago, NeithanDiniem said:

It takes 500 days to get some of the best login rewards, people complain about everything these days. You dont need every focus school maxed out as fast as possible, you really only need the one you want to use and the unlinkable skills.

At least you only need to login for that, it takes 2 mins, doesn't eat into your time where could be doing things you actually want to do  and you don't need those log in rewards to make a mode effective.

[Birdframe_Prime]

18 hours ago, Hixlysss said:

Come on, we are supposed to be a VOID DEMON for crying out loud, and yet my warframe is a bigger badass than me? How the hell were the operators EVER feared by...anyone? We are weak, frail and clumsy...pathetic really.

This kind of makes me laugh as the other half of the community hates the Operators for not being Warframes and doesn't want to play as them at all, even if they have advantages over pure warframe game play.

That and you haven't read the Lore closely enough if you think the Operators were feared for their physical capabilities... no, they were feared because they were unstable generators of raw Void energy that could blast holes in ship hulls by accident. They were rescued children, and were initially given the 'frames' as a way to not kill themselves with their own powers, using Transference to send their power to something that could actually withstand it. It's only after the Orokin saw the powers the frames could create. such weird and wonderful effects, that they turned them into Warframes and sent them out as weapons against their enemies.

Operators are intentionally weak, they're children. People called them demons because of base superstition, and if the views on them had been even slightly different, if they hadn't been useful, the Orokin would have killed them all or used them all as vessels for prolonging their life.

Now, this isn't to say that I'm not in mild agreement to your ideas.

There should be ways to get more Focus, to in some way bypass the daily cap (much the same way as you can hit the daily cap in a Syndicate and still use the medallions you pick up and completing their unique challenge missions to gain more rep on top of that cap), because for people that really want to get to 1 million for unbinding a passive, a full five days of grinding can seem far too tedious.

However, the lense system and the Convergence orbs, are specifically there so that players coming in to this system cannot, because they should not, gain the full benefit of the system quickly.

It's not designed for that. It's for small, incremental and permanent increases.

[Hypernaut1]

 

20 hours ago, Hixlysss said:

Third, find a use for "extra" focus. Once someone maxes out a tree, what do they do with extra points? What do you do once you've maxed out all trees and are sitting on PILES of focus points? A few suggestions would be to allow us to convert focus from one school to another, at a reduced price naturally, and/or allow us to convert excess focus back into affinity, to, well, speed level our weapons as it were, funnel the affinity back into our warframe/weapons. Alternatively converting it into endo/kuva is an option but I don't see that happening imo.

 

This is why some of these complaints don't make sense and are borderline bipolar.

1. "We want something to do with all the affinity we gain after we max out gear!"... Devs create focus and community complains that they can't run through it fast enough, just to have the same problem of acquiring affinity with nothing to use it on.

Maxing a focus school should be a year long plus deal. It should be something you can always work towards during your entire playtime of Warframe. 

At most, DE should adjust what those final maxed values (and in between) should be, but they shouldn't simplify and shorten the grind so that you can easily max all schools in a year, only to have people complain they need something to use "extra" affinity on.

There's enough to do in this game that you shouldn't have to hyper-farm focus. It should be a passive activity and a reward for constantly playing Warframe.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Hypernaut1

[Soketsu]

Since this topic aren't dead, I will answer Hixlysss.

When we need operator, kuva farm and eidolon hunt.

in the 1st one we sucess to do so even without improved operator, eidolon hunt you just need 4 guys to do defeat them, no need to any improvement.

Yes I admit that I want to be strong enough in order to defeat one by myself but when this day come I will have no reason to hunt them anymore.

Then if you are hungry for more power, and that is something I can understand, you have obviously realised that not all perk will be useful

 

-As a zenurik user only 2 abilities who make your operator stronger by giving more energy for his abilties, 3 are support abilties who help your warframes ,the other abilities is thing that warframes could do in better

 

-As a narramon user 2 abilties make your operator faster but still I will stay in my warframe if I want to be mobile, 2 abilties allow you to emulate nyx/loki on a very small area, the other support you warframe.

 

-As a madurai user 2 abilties give your operator some good extra firepower, 2 support your warframe firepower and the other are abilties that some warframe can do with more results

 

-Then vazarin user (that I didnt test by myself) give your operator additionnal health, self health regeneration abilties and shieldscreen for allies and more other useful abilties, but we really need some protection, I guarrantie that many people will prefer use a specific warframe over vazarin operator, but I can't deny that many of thi abilties could be useful

 

-And finally Unairu user, on the paper, many of his abilties could be useful, giving ally some cloak, or weakening ennemies but as always, warframe power can do that too, and will be better, sending back some damage to the foe can be useful,I don't find the +X% of armor really good for operator at this level I find vazarin to be more resilient than Unairu.

 

In short while many operator abilties are useful, many of this can be used via a warframe,

only a few perks are really unique an specific to operators and make them stronger but even without them there is nothing locked to us right now , so I still don't see why should I farm for all of them, I'm even even happy to have something max out after forma my 3 - 5 times, since the second dreams

Edited October 26, 2017 by Soketsu
useless space

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

Convergence orbs definitely need to go for several reasons.

I don't mind grinding for Focus, but 500+ days for active effort to level up a 'mini-game' side-note to a full game is kinda ridiculous.

 

19 hours ago, NeithanDiniem said:

It takes 500 days to get some of the best login rewards, people complain about everything these days. You dont need every focus school maxed out as fast as possible, you really only need the one you want to use and the unlinkable skills.

Login rewards aren't on the same page as Focus. Login rewards literally require that you take 15 seconds out of your day to start up the game, then "BAM!" you're considered a dedicated player. Don't even get me started on the people who had hundreds or thousands of hours in the game before login rewards started that got nothing. There's a guy in my office that started 2 years after me, but has more login reward days because he hadn't already done almost everything in the game before login rewards started. Now, him and his girlfriend take turns logging each other in when the other isn't home so they get credit even though I actually play more hours than them even now.

Login rewards are a very different issue than Focus Farming.

[NeithanDiniem]

On 10/26/2017 at 8:27 AM, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

Convergence orbs definitely need to go for several reasons.

I don't mind grinding for Focus, but 500+ days for active effort to level up a 'mini-game' side-note to a full game is kinda ridiculous.

 

Login rewards aren't on the same page as Focus. Login rewards literally require that you take 15 seconds out of your day to start up the game, then "BAM!" you're considered a dedicated player. Don't even get me started on the people who had hundreds or thousands of hours in the game before login rewards started that got nothing. There's a guy in my office that started 2 years after me, but has more login reward days because he hadn't already done almost everything in the game before login rewards started. Now, him and his girlfriend take turns logging each other in when the other isn't home so they get credit even though I actually play more hours than them even now.

Login rewards are a very different issue than Focus Farming.

Login rewards have no way to accelerate at all, ever. You have to put yourself into the game 500 times to get the rewards. Focus farming can be accelerated with resource boosters and the like, letting one farm 5 eidolons in one night period for the brilliant shards and completing the focus schools a lot faster than 500 days. Its not unheard of with a good team to get 5-7 shards consistently, netting you upwards of 125k-175k extra focus in just 50 minutes of farming which you can repeat throughout the day as night returns. The shards don't count to the daily cap either, letting one farm for shards freely without the need to farm out the convergence-gained points first. People hear a number and get hooked on it without thinking whether or not that number is in any way accurate.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

How about trying not maxing every school?

What ever happened to specialization?

[Hixlysss]

22 hours ago, (PS4)RenovaKunumaru said:

How about trying not maxing every school?

What ever happened to specialization?

Same reason why people play every warframe/weapon/ect to get MR. Completionism. I mean we max out one tree and what...ignore the others? But now there are passives from the other schools we can use at all times. But even still, it's one of those things that will just nag at you. you do just the one school, eventually you'll end up with so many lenses you'll be like "Ah well, F*** it, i'll do the other schools." And then the realization of the grind hits you.

On top of that each school has a different 'max' time. Like the cheapest/quickest, according to wiki, is Naramon at 25 days, with Zenurik at 75 days. That's freakin' nuts....

[Hellmaker2004]

It may take a long time to maximize all the School if you only get the daily cap, but you are not limited to only the daily 250k cap.

If you are capable to kill Teralysts with lures you get one Brilliant Eidolon Shard that can either be used for the way-bound focus skills or you can redeem them for 25k Focus over the daily cap.

 

So get a good team and go out on the plain while it is night, you will be rewarded. Also you can kill more than one every night cycle, sadly you need to "reset" the plains between each kill.

 

 

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

You don't build a system that only a no life addict can complete. You build a system that the majority of your fanbase can enjoy and participate in.

[Birdframe_Prime]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

You don't build a system that only a no life addict can complete. You build a system that the majority of your fanbase can enjoy and participate in.

Except you do when you're building a game that has lasted 5 years already and is only just hitting its stride and plans to last another 5. You do when you've got a \Daily Tribute' or login-reward system that people are about to unlock the 700th day rewards in 2 days (since the Daily Tribute system was put in place on December 3rd 2015). Even though you only have to login once a day to get that, I've struggled enough that I'm still not on my 500th day reward yet... But people are doing it, people are getting the rewards, and people grind this game every day, sometimes for hours a day.

Many players are in this game for the long term, my current 'Thaylien' account has been around since the start of February 2014, an old abandoned account I had has been around for a year longer than that.

So yeah, DE are exactly the kind of developers that would make a system that it would take 500 days of farming to complete, and then only put in an achievement for completing the first School out of five... thanks DE... Because their players are living proof that people will stick around and play the game for that long.

[Cara360]

I don't know if anyone mention this but it someone mention in another thread if the operator gets 100% of the focus points when they kill with their void power, instead of putting a len on the amp. This would be helpful for focusing gaining and help a little bit of the points the OP make in point 1 and 2.