Saryn: What can she do that another can't do 10x better?

[Ivan_Rid]

4 hours ago, CactiIsraphe said:

pretty sure he listed those frames because they have things that have actual viability at close range for one reason or another. Zephyr's up there for her 3. People love to say Saryn is a melee frame because of her 3, but there's no way to build up the effect of her 3 to be viable over using someone else. Saryn needs a stat adjustment if she's to stay the same. The reason why Nova is mentions so much is that she has most of the things people say they use Saryn for, but better, only thing she lacks is a 30% buff to her melee weapon's base damage. Which is something people seem to not understand about Saryn, her 3's damage buff applies only to base weapon damage, i.e. slash, impact, puncture. Straight from the wiki:

• The additional  Toxin damage is treated as a separate instance of damage and does not combine with elemental damage on the melee weapon.

Whether that means the dot or the entire effect of the skill is a little vague, but even the stronger of the two is still weak once actually in world. It's also affected by power strength, so you need to decide between having wide range for spores, or enough power strength and efficiency for her 3 to work better than just meh melee mods. She also doesn't have the survivability to go face to face with higher level mobs to the degree that her 3 would require to be useful over something else. People don't seem to want to recognize that her numbers are all around low. She's a frame that only sounds good on paper, her actual effects are very limited and any role she can fill can be filled better elsewhere for lower cost.

She has compounding issues that people fail to recognize because they tend to favor one aspect of her or another, and likely ignore their actual numbers. She needs at the very least a scaling fix so she's not so stat hungry and can have builds that are single ability dump stat builds.

Afaik Lash adds 30% of total damage at base. And also applies 15% of damage per tick as Toxin. Viral(Spore)+Toxin(Lash)=2.56 damage multiplier from Condition Overload (further multiplied on Toxin Lash damage multiplier), before the weapon even starts applying status.

Yes, Saryn has issues, but lack of melee damage is not one of them.

Sadly Saryn cant really facetank, but if enemy is CCed she just shreds them.

Recorded on potato, 9 months ago.

e:

5 hours ago, Hellmaker2004 said:

1-(665/955) = 0.304 = at slightly above 30% DR on Null Star you gain about the same survivability as Saryn, 30% DR on null star is achieved at 6 stars. And any more stars you scale better than Saryn with health mods and Nova already scales better at one null star with shield mods.

Null star damage reduction doesnt apply to shields, it is pretty much an Armour.

 

Edited October 30, 2017 by Ivan_Rid

[z4gara]

Funny, just the other day I was pondering why would anybody play anything but Saryn when she's got so much going for her. Can be built for melee or casting, decent armor, large self heal with Regenerative Molt, has 2 statuses coming just from her skill set which means free ++ with Condition Overload, and if all that's somehow not enough you can pop 4 for CC and extra damage or 2 to divert enemy fire. I use her for about anything except for Stealth missions no matter the level. She can survive anything, all while dishing out incredible damage. Bounties, Sorties, endless are just a breeze with her. And given the fact you have to use her entire skillset, it doesn't get boring either.

Saryn's great, she's my favourite frame, always has been since I started this game. So yeah, I disagree with you. While it's true 1 has some bugs right now, she's not dramatically catastrophically broken.

[SenorClipClop]

On 10/29/2017 at 6:09 PM, CactiIsraphe said:

Saryn: What can she do that another can't do 10x better?

Well, DoTs for one. 

On 10/29/2017 at 6:09 PM, CactiIsraphe said:

She doesn't have the damage output she used to before her "fixes," even if you try to optimize duration and power to maximize her combos. Even then, other frames can run circles around her in terms of damage, so she's obviously not a damage focused frame.

This is incorrect. Post-rework, Saryn does same or greater damage in all situations as long as you know what you're doing with her. Thing is, that damage is from multiple different sources instead of just Miasma. You don't get the e-peen stroking big numbers that old Saryn provided, but the damage is still very real and present. Saryn is a lot less commonly seen in Public because now she has a higher skill floor, meaning that players can no longer deal crazy amounts of damage by just mashing 4.

Perhaps you should put more work into how Saryn is played instead of just how she's built. Fact is, there are players that aren't having the problems you're having with Saryn. And we all have the same tools to work with, so it doesn't sound like a Saryn problem.

[(PSN)Riven_Lupus]

As the premier Saryn expert in my clan, Saints of Xandria, I have but one word for this thread.

What?

I use a max Range build, followed by Strength, followed by Duration. I dumped Efficiency completely, and use the Regenerative Molt Augment. I typically run this with either a Torid or Tigris Prime as my primary, as an enabling tool.

Using a single cast of Spores alone, I can virtually out kill any DPS frame in the game. At lower levels, all I have to do is cast and then fire the Torid in close proximity, and the 40m spread radius ensures that the kill spread is going to look like the Ult of most frames. Around Sortie level is when I apply the Torid first, then cast spores on the target, and the spread is going to deal significant DoTs that spread virulently (pun unintended).

I've personally killed entire waves of Hydron using less energy than the likes of Banshee, in shorter amount of time. In fact, it usually is required that it be wave 10 and beyond before I don't have to recast Spores because it ran out of bodies to ravage. I've completed Exterminations on dense enemy tilesets within a single minute. Saryn just requires the know-how to navigate her synergies that lie under the advertised chassis to use properly.

On the similar note, Miasma I use exclusively as a short lived stun.

 

[Hellmaker2004]

1 hour ago, SenorClipClop said:

so it doesn't sound like a Saryn problem.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gdc353z9ko

Bug is shown after 7 min mark, everything before is a showcase how it is working while not bugging out.

 

If that is not a Saryn problem then i do not know what it is. Spore is literary either overwriting itself, or blocking itself at random. I agree she work wonders when she does. The problem is she is not working, this bug is also not exclusive to happening every now and again, it literary stack further reducing the damage even more and more.

[(PSN)Radehx]

She can halve enemies' health throughout the entire map...which isn't something any other frame can do. 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

10 hours ago, Ivan_Rid said:

Afaik Lash adds 30% of total damage at base. And also applies 15% of damage per tick as Toxin. Viral(Spore)+Toxin(Lash)=2.56 damage multiplier from Condition Overload (further multiplied on Toxin Lash damage multiplier), before the weapon even starts applying status.

Yes, Saryn has issues, but lack of melee damage is not one of them.

Sadly Saryn cant really facetank, but if enemy is CCed she just shreds them.

Recorded on potato, 9 months ago.

e:

Null star damage reduction doesnt apply to shields, it is pretty much an Armour.

 

That is thanks to how strong melee is but definitly not due to her ability set. You could litteraly not have used spores but rather addet viral to your melee and you would've gotten the same results.

What she's missing becomes (or became) painfully obvious when you approached a endless level range back when shadow step was still avaiable to everyone, and that is that spores DO NOT scale off or share poison like they used to in the innitial rework...

I really consider her kit and low defense fine as is as it still allows her to approach single enemys in a croud, which would be able to act as cataclyst to set and share poison to 3 enemys in range per hit, what's a lot if you use slide melee strategys that go in the 100 thousands on unarmored enemys to set poison before barraging them with hits to spread it but only ONCE did i see a enemy die from the poisons influence alone in weeks of testing with low ranged melee weapons (dual ichors for the most part).. her aoe damage rooting in her melee performance was supposed to be what justified her existance but this aspect eather bugged out or was intentionally nerfed in the shadows and remained untouched ever since, leaving her with melee/weapons, goodish range for low level bombing, the basic strength of her abilitys that's in the same range and 2 types of status, what simply isn't enough for a frame that's lacking in every other aspect.

 

I say leave her as she is and finally FIX her. She needs and deserves it.

Edited October 30, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)BlitzKeir]

11 hours ago, CactiIsraphe said:

-snip-

I understood his point, but I disagree with much of what you and he say. Saryn does need tweaks, but not at the expense of her playstyle.

The mistake you're making is in focusing on explaining why you think Saryn is bad, rather than explaining how you think she should be improved. You can't convince anyone like that. Never make the statement "it's not as good as another arbitrary option" when providing feedback. The people who will respond to this are not the sort of person DE listens to, and it will invariably lead to drowning the discussion in closed-minded pedantry.

You're also pitting yourself against more experienced players with some of your arguments, and that's never helpful for your case. Example: your insistence that Saryn is energy hungry. This is only true if you are using Miasma for damage which, as you've said at great length, is not practical.

You also make some arguments that you do not personally believe. Such as your criticism that her passive is unhelpful because of status duration mods, which I assume you don't use. As far as I know, I'm the only person in the whole playerbase who uses Enduring Affliction. Damn cool mod.

It's also poor form to say that a niche class requiring high specialization is bad. This will turn a lot of people against you. Lots of people love specialization and highly technical playstyles, myself included.

~~

And so as not to be a hypocrite, here are my ideas for how to improve Saryn.

1. As the dude in my link said, add an 8 second invulnerability period to Molt, wherein damage is absorbed and added as health with a 2x multiplier. Manual detonation still works during this time.

2. Spores deal absorbed Toxin procs as new Toxin procs, but with the current restrictions. This allows DOT stacking without turning her into a worse Ember, and is important for the next two things.

3. Toxic Lash gains two effects. First, it causes all Toxin procs inflicted by Saryn's abilities or melee attacks to have an accompanying Impact proc. This effect can only occur on a target once every 4 seconds, to prevent Saryn from LARPing as pre-nerf Prism Mirage. Second, attacking a target suffering a Toxin proc stores one tick's worth of the proc as Toxin damage on your melee weapon, up to a cap of 1500. Your next charged attack will add this stored damage to the base damage of the resulting Toxin proc. The formula will look like this: (Base Damage * 0.5) + (Toxin Damage * 0.5) + Stored Damage. If math isn't your strong suit, after accounting for crit, channeling, Condition Overload, combo multiplier and charge attack multiplier, this is effectively a delete button when maxed.

4. Remove Miasma's damage. Instead, Miasma gains three effects. First, it collapses all toxin/gas DOTs on targets in range into a single tick, with a multiplier of 2 * (Status Effects on Target + 1) (not affected by mods). Second, enemies are stunned for 4 seconds * (Status Effects on Target + 1) (not affected by mods). Third, Miasma removes 20% Max Armor * Status Effects on Target (not affected by mods). This further emphasizes her buildup playstyle, decouples Miasma from Strength, potentially deals more damage than pre-rework Miasma, and synergizes extremely well with other debuffers like Oberon.

There you go. Now she has solid survivability and monster damage output, without compromising her playstyle. She's also even more of a specialist, requiring deep knowledge of many mechanics, but still possible to succeed by flailing dramatically. Depending on how 3 is implemented, it could have an effect on performance, so that might be an issue. Especially for console players. DE will have to figure out how Miasma interacts with Frozen status, I'm at a complete loss there.

I have some other thoughts about improving the player's control over how Spores spread, but my brain needs rest.

Edited October 30, 2017 by (PS4)BlitzKeir

[Epsik-kun]

4 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

That is thanks to how strong melee is but definitly not due to her ability set. You could litteraly not have used spores but rather addet viral to your melee and you would've gotten the same results.

You would've not, as using Viral on your weapon would result in dealing less than 40% of what Saryn can deal. Not to mention, even before Condition Overload became a thing, Saryn was one of the better melee users.

The video is misleading, though, because pre-proccing enemies from afar kinda defeats the point (and is terribly slow in the actual gameplay). Yet even in this scenario, Saryn can keep her proc count advantage easily.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

2 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

You would've not, as using Viral on your weapon would result in dealing less than 40% of what Saryn can deal.

Mind explaining? It's the same thing if it's for Condition alone.

[Epsik-kun]

Just now, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Mind explaining? It's the same thing if it's for Condition alone.

Saryn gives you immediate and guaranteed Toxic and Viral status procs on top of whatever you're running on your melee. Meaning, you won't be running these two. Assuming you're running Corrosive + Blast instead - it's a two-three procs advantage which means x2.5 and x4 damage dealt respectively for CO. And you still get the benefits of CC and armor stripping. And damage buff is there too.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

57 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

Saryn gives you immediate and guaranteed Toxic and Viral status procs on top of whatever you're running on your melee. Meaning, you won't be running these two. Assuming you're running Corrosive + Blast instead - it's a two-three procs advantage which means x2.5 and x4 damage dealt respectively for CO. And you still get the benefits of CC and armor stripping. And damage buff is there too.

Not really. It's a chance on spore destruction. You may as well run a mixed physical melee and stuff it with status elements to get a pretty much equal chance to set 4-5 proccs, plus the toxic procc is guaranteed on lash anyways, what kinda reduces spores to low damage+a viral procc with the share mechanic beein broken how it is.

[Epsik-kun]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Not really. It's a chance on spore destruction. You may as well run a mixed physical melee and stuff it with status elements to get a pretty much equal chance to set 4-5 proccs, plus the toxic procc is guaranteed on lash anyways, what kinda reduces spores to low damage+a viral procc with the share mechanic beein broken how it is.

What? Viral is guaranteed on spore pop. Spore pop is guaranteed on Toxic Lash melee hit. Toxic proc is guaranteed on Toxic Lash which is a Saryn's ability. It's two procs she literally guarantees from her abilities other frames can't get in a similar fashion. When a frame with IPS + 2 elements melee would have 4-5 procs, Saryn will have 6-7, unless you're running redundant weapon builds.

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

8 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

That is thanks to how strong melee is but definitly not due to her ability set. You could litteraly not have used spores but rather addet viral to your melee and you would've gotten the same results.

you know....the funny thing is...concerning this sentence....did you know that saryn is literaly the only frame who can completely maximize the effects of condition overload? as in she can have more status procs on a single target(granted they'll be well beyond DEAD at that point.....but hey, math can be fun sometimes) than any other frame. it involves the zakti, glaive prime and her own set of viral and toxin. zakti for corrosive and blast+gas, glaive for radiation and viral.

lets see....

thats gas(which afaik, technically counts as 2 procs, the cloud and the toxin.....)

magnetic

viral

radiation

normal toxin(toxic lash would apply that as a separate proc to the gas, at least my experiences has shown that)

blast(CO does in fact use blast and impact procs, and like gas, blast is 2 procs)

corrosive

impact

puncture

and slash....that's 12 procs. a 281.47 multiplier. there is no other frame who can pull that off.

after double checking and triple checking the wiki....yea, only saryn can apply 12 procs at once, granted the target would have to be absurdly high level(lvl 300+?) for that to even happen.

note: if a volt joins the fun, alongside an ember and any other frame who can apply elements to ally weapons via an aug....that multiplier goes higher.

just adding those two gives saryn a theoretical 14 procs.

[Epsik-kun]

4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Orcus Imperium said:

glaive for radiation and viral.

Why not Radiation + Cold, though?

 

Also, gas doesn't work for CO iirc, as the proc is momentary - only appears on paused by Limbo enemies - and Saryn already has toxic.

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

4 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

Why not Radiation + Cold, though?

 

Also, gas doesn't work for CO iirc, as the proc is momentary - only appears on paused by Limbo enemies - and Saryn already has toxic.

no cold because taxon already covers that, maybe i should've said that. and thanks for the correction on the gas.

even without the gas....that's like.....what? 13 procs with saryn alone in theory?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

14 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

What? Viral is guaranteed on spore pop. Spore pop is guaranteed on Toxic Lash melee hit. Toxic proc is guaranteed on Toxic Lash which is a Saryn's ability. It's two procs she literally guarantees from her abilities other frames can't get in a similar fashion. When a frame with IPS + 2 elements melee would have 4-5 procs, Saryn will have 6-7, unless you're running redundant weapon builds.

I see, nvm me then. I remember it beein a chance from studying it way back when her rework was still fresh. It was labeled a chance in the wiki back then.

It's correct now, it beein a 100% status chance and a 50% one to be eather poison or viral when a toxic procc is present. 

 

One may argue that it's pointless anyways with how little you need viral more then once per target, how effective you're able to set it without spores (what's the reason i mentioned it in the first place) and how common of a status it is with its synergy to slash status but there i stand corrected, thank you.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

31 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Orcus Imperium said:

Snip

I might be wrong on that one too but i'm pretty sure gas only counts the toxic, which she has anyways and should be counted as the same, while it's true that blast proccs twice.

It's at least not mentioned seperately in the wiki which states, quote:

, , , , , , , , , , , and  procs

to affect it.

ps: at least corrosive was addet to the list, which didn't affect it for quite a while.

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

I might be wrong on that one too but i'm pretty sure gas only counts the toxic, which she has anyways and should be counted as the same, while it's true that blast proccs twice.

It's at least not mentioned seperately in the wiki which states, quote:

, , , , , , , , , , , and  procs

to affect it.

ps: at least corrosive was addet to the list, which didn't affect it for quite a while.

ah, thank you. i've been under the impression gas and blast worked the same in CO's case, i guess i was wrong. saryn is still the only frame who could, in theory, attain the max amount of procs for CO's damage multipliers

[(PSN)TertulSee]

On 10/29/2017 at 3:09 AM, CactiIsraphe said:

Longtime Saryn player here, wondering wtf is up. Why does anyone think the state of the frame is anywhere near ok? What is her purpose?

Her augments would be great if they didn't take up a mod slot, but to have an even remotely useful build on her you can't afford to slot them. The augments seem to be geared towards an up-close brawler type character, which is not a role she should be considered for when there are other frames that have much higher chances of surviving and thriving in a melee role. Her stats and skills, even with augments and skill combos, don't make her as viable for a melee brawler role like many players seem to think she is.

She doesn't have the damage output she used to before her "fixes," even if you try to optimize duration and power to maximize her combos. Even then, other frames can run circles around her in terms of damage, so she's obviously not a damage focused frame. Her 4 does literally nothing compared to other frames unless you have all of the most expensive mods and forma her 4 or 5 times, but by that logic why not use those expensive mods and formas on other, more capable and useful frames? Her spores are too short range to really be worth anything, and viral isn't as great as people seem to thinks it is, especially when you have frames like Nova and Banshee that increase damage dealt to enemies to a degree that makes viral procs' hp reduction looks pitiful. Her 3 is useless and redundant considering how any weapon seems to be able to pop her spores, toxic status would be nearly completely useless if it didn't feed into her 4, which is my next point.

Why, by any line of logic, did anyone think Saryn's 4 as it is now would be a good idea? Using her 4 by itself does less damage than most frames' weakest attack skill, and in order to set her 4 up to do decent damage you need a good build and all of her other skills built upon each other. Any other damage frame has a one button skill that can rival her 4. While her 4 does have an element of cc, there are frames that do cc much more effectively and efficiently. It has far too long of a setup and too steep of a cost to be even remotely viable as an ability.

Because of the nature of her abilities and how they are required to feed into each other to be effective, Saryn is a stat hungry frame. While most frames have coherent enough abilities that all benefit from the same one or two stats, Saryn's abilities are greatly affected by power strength, duration, and range. Without a large number in all 3 of those areas Saryn can't stack up against other frames, and thus there's no reason to play her in settings that require warframe abilities to be used. Even with a build that favors those three stats, you'll likely have to give up power efficiency to boost the other stats to a meaningful level, which effectively weakens her ability to use her abilities unless assisted by another frame like Trinity. The worst change ever made to Saryn was "fixing" the way her 4 did damage faster with lower duration. There are still frames that at the moment of me writing this have skills that have positive uses for lower stats. Her 4's reliance on comboing all her other skills needs to be outright removed, it makes that ability too costly for what it is capable of doing and is too risky to set up at higher levels. A one button skill works just fine for her, you could make her 4 viable by making it able to be used on its own effectively, maybe as simply as boosting it's base damage to include the boosts it would get from her current ability combos. 3 could be outright replaced with something else, perhaps something that does damage or gives a debuff/buff or recovers something, having a skill purely for adding an extra step to another skill is ridiculous. That being said, her passive skill is only there to assist her 1's viral effect and setting up her 4 with viral and toxic procs.

It takes so much effort just to get her up to standard, and she has zero areas she can excel in other than status effects, which are not strong enough to base a frame off of. She desperately needs another rework, but the best course of action is probably just a restoration to what she was before. This is a mostly pve game, there's no reason to make frames this much weaker than other frames or their own initial release. Making frames substantially weaker than others just makes them not worth playing, and that's where Saryn sits right now. She's just not a viable frame for anything other than casual play where it doesn't matter what you pick. Give her a definite role, make her useful to a group and able to stand on her own without having to be babysat. Make her viable again.

Oh boy, you haven’t seen how much damage she can deal with only her Spores are her Molt. She has the highest area DPS in the game considering how Viral works and how popping Spores deals a ton of unreasonably high Damage. Yeah, she doesn’t have face up burst damage now but she has huge damage potential. Her 4th ability is more of a panic situation cast now. It pretty much kills off the remainder of the little HP that enemies have (because of all the Viral Procs). Just imagine having enemies HP reduced by half every second and then add on the DoT her Spores deal and it’s stupidly powerful. You didn’t get the memo that there are no longer press 4 to win Frame did you? I think you can count Titania but she need more than just 4. You should look at Ash and look back at Saryn. You’ll be surprised how much easier it is to use Saryn now than the current Ash. Maximize her Range and she will kill every enemy on Hydron without a sweat. You simply don’t know how to play her now. 

Just in case you didn’t know meta, she should just cast Molt and spam away her Spores on her Molt, once you pop the Spores, she will kill most fodder units and still take 90% of the armored units’ HP away at level 100-ish.

Edited October 31, 2017 by (PS4)godlysparta

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)Orcus Imperium said:

ah, thank you. i've been under the impression gas and blast worked the same in CO's case, i guess i was wrong. saryn is still the only frame who could, in theory, attain the max amount of procs for CO's damage multipliers

Kinda true, what makes an incredible impact on the slash potion too, another kandidate would be oberon, who is able to set radiation by default, pierce with his smite and impact with his ult (one procc less but the choice to use pure slash weapons as melee base), what gives him the possibily to run a similar setup more effectively.

Difference is that he actually has a kit that participates in the game, damage that scales incredibly well and stuff that actually keeps him alive tho....

Edited October 31, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[YauXD]

The only thing that needs to be fixed is the spore spreading issue, when the spores works , it can wipe out the entire map in 2 seconds with insane dmg, but when it doesn’t work, it can only kill a few enemies and than the spread stops, the problem of Saryn is you will never know whether the spores are working or not , that makes her very unreliable in terms of DPS , but the play style of it is really fun and that shouldn’t be changed , Saryn can be top tier damage output in the game when the spore bug is fixed.(I’m playing Saryn on a strength+ range mod + hikou prime explosion build , this build is a bit outdated but is extremely fun, OP can try it sometime.)

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

13 hours ago, (PS4)godlysparta said:

You should look at Ash and look back at Saryn. You’ll be surprised how much easier it is to use Saryn now than the current Ash

Not really, smokescreen + status/slash can clear rooms of lvl 100 small mobs and teleport/bladestorm can finish off the heavy units. All while being untargetable by enemies.

Saryn isn't bad but for some reason her spores have a mind of their own, sometimes I can create the black plague and destroy rooms with it, but other times it just stops spreading even with 200%+ range, pretty sure it's a bug.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

On 10/31/2017 at 2:57 AM, (PS4)godlysparta said:

You should look at Ash and look back at Saryn. You’ll be surprised how much easier it is to use Saryn now than the current Ash

Not really, smokescreen + status/slash melee can clear rooms of lvl 100 small mobs and teleport/bladestorm can finish off the heavy units in seconds. All while being untargetable by enemies.

Saryn isn't bad but for some reason her spores have a mind of their own, sometimes I can create the black plague and destroy rooms with it, but other times it just stops spreading even with 200%+ range, pretty sure it's a bug.

Edited November 1, 2017 by (XB1)Angryspy101

[Valaska]

On 10/29/2017 at 4:27 AM, Wolfglaive said:

She's perfectly viable, and she is viable without any pervasive use of Miasma or long-winded and consistent setup. She is far more viable at high levels of play in her current iteration than she was pre-rework. As for her "role", it's that of a melee-caster. Toxic Lash and Spore coupled with Saryn Prime's armor and energy values when modded make her wonderful in long endless, especially survival. Combine Spore with Nova's Molecular Prime and waves of enemies have effectively 1/4 health for extremely low-effort and upkeep.

Did you just come back to the game or something? She's been like this for ages, and your post seems a bit anachronistic.

lol a melee caster? Look I love Saryn, more than the next person. But no she's not.

Regen Molt won't save your behind the instant things get above level 40 and she needs an extreme amount of power mods to even remotely begin to scale with damage. The literal, only, good thing Saryn is for is standing at long, long, LONG fricken range and shooting things with a toxic weapon. Beyond 100 you begin to become a complete and utter liability, a waste of space in a team roster.

Though if you just stick around sub 40 content like I imagine you are with how you are talking... Then yes, she is very viable and can even outperform some frames in spreading damage and really messing up things day. But when the real game starts and you go into endless she is generally wasted space where a beserker frame would do 10x's better in the role.

 

Saryn needs some way to scale, she doesn't need a full overhaul, but she needs a rework to give her % based damages and debuffs on enemies. She certainly needs it a whole hell of a lot more than Ash and several other frames that being addressed, especially since we were promised this rework 4 months after the original re-work. Saryn is several years late on this re-work DE promised to us so they could pump out new gimmick frames left and right and then completely invalidate what she does with Nidus etc.

 

Saryn, needs, a touch up. The re-work was a good direction, but jeez, bring back multiple stacking spores or something to give her the ability to go into high end content. And yes, Saryn can out DPS pretty much anything before 50-60, but she does not scale past that where as several current frames and even older ones do scale beyond. The fact that spores have been bugged this long alone means she needs her fix. Lets not bring back the miasma bomb, but lets at least fix her issues and then give her % based damages and debuffs which better allow her to go into 80's+.

Edited November 1, 2017 by Valaska
Adding abit.