[Console] Operation: Plague Star!

[JayJayTheScrub]

39 minutes ago, Sebith said:

I think the problem isn't leaderboard it self, but rewards for it. If the reward for 'who sit longer in front of PC' would be ONLY Clan Trophy, i'm sure we wouldn't have this discussion now. I think it's a great solution to make both sides happy. Make trophies the only reward for leaderboard so hardcores could compete for the leaderboards and be proud of the trophy, but event exclusive items would be available for everyone, because i think being here at the event time and participate in it should be enough to earn the rewards.

The trophies are point based already, each clan needed x amount of points to get it, the leaderboard's only reward was a position on it (although for pacifism the top 10% on it got the ignis wraith blueprint as a clan research).

Speaking of ignis wraith, if i remember correctly you didn't even have to place to get a single copy, only be active and get x clan score in it, so it in of itself was no more locked behind leaderboards than the supra vandal

[Stoner]

45 minutes ago, SsvenN said:

While said, closing the rewards for majority ( 10% on top) isn't much of avoidable to me, don't you think so? And calling him toxic & selfish not too much of a polite, while he was answering and backing up the words by some facts and not raging all the way down on each and every message.

Pacifism defect was bad. It was probably one of the most competitive event DE has done yes but locking a weapon this way was a bad decision.

Edit: I actually forgot how PD worked. Ignis Wraith was not locked behind 10% of the best clans. Only the BP was and it was an extra added reward. You obtained the weapon as is like any other events. 

Edited November 11, 2017 by Stoner74

[--RV--Ne_NobodyDS]

10 minutes ago, SsvenN said:

Well, let's be honest, have you seen many of the newcomers being forum active?

"the majority of the ones asking for a leaderboard" refers to....the majority of the ones asking for a leaderboard...right here... No one claimed that's the will of the majority of the whole WF playerbase... pretty unambiguous

Quote

20 minutes ago, SsvenN said:

And, overall, i can't spend so much time in getting some stuff/maintain the active clan for the same purposes. Hope this thing with removed leaderboards will be not one time thing.

 

And also, since you can't spend time on it, you wish leaderboards to be permanently removed, without apparently reasons or return in your parts, mm?

Well, considering we're asking for a leaderboard, and not for exclusive gears behind the operation, no one so far managed to argue on "how removing leaderboards can benefit the community",all i can see here is a sadistic satisfation in killing others fun

[Mofodo]

I agree that anything that gives mastery (or things that directly relate to the actual progression in the game) should be available to EVERYONE. Requiring players to join a clan in order to have access to certain blueprints already displeases some friends of mine who would prefer to play more solo. 

However, I see no problem with adding cosmetics/sigil rewards to leaderboards. While its true that competition promotes toxicity, obviously even a game without competition can be toxic (this entire forum thread for instance). The intention of the rewards for leaderboards would obviously not be to encourage players to break the rules, abuse exploits, or be negative to one another. Hopefully what would happen is some true friendly competition between the clans who actually do care about it. 

As an additional suggestion, I've seen a few people say these events are a good way to measure clan participation. Perhaps if a leaderboard of the accomplishments of multiple clans can't be arranged, an in-clan leaderboard could be. To clarify: a leaderboard of how members within a specific clan performed (basically like the leaderboard we have for the dojo obstacle course, but for this event). 

[MissDandi]

Honestly after the way hema destroyed our clan and how other toxic things happened having to drop down to storm from moon I am ok with there not be leaderboards.(thought I understand that many of you have mourned it) I find the timing for this event to be a bit annoying though since this week was finally the 60 day end to we could go back up to mountain. But alas there is things to craft and with no idea what the requirements are and how much, I can't risk it by building barracks atm. (since I may have a lot of resources, but whoever gets to the research first may pour all they have into it)

As far as my response to this specific event...well token system was fine but I forsee a much more convoluted system to gain all the rewards from this. I may not be technically a veteran but I think I have enough perspective on the game to know this is both bad and good to have no leaderboards. Sadly it seems most vets want to prove they can be even more toxic when they don't get what they want. Maybe if there were less competitive clans that didn't deny anyone under mr 15 we wouldn't have DE making decisions like these. If you are indeed reading through comments and make it to mine and the book I am writing you, my only suggestion is keep it simple. Have ways for low tier player involvement to gain rewards and high tier play removed from rewards that go toward a leaderboard. Then the more you grind the low tier the more you earn toward the secondary set of rewards. Which is basically what I think you are trying to accomplish here. 

 Crossing my fingers and hoping for the best for this event though. 

[SsvenN]

3 minutes ago, --RV--Ne_NobodyDS said:

without apparently reasons or return in your parts, mm?

If there will be more things like PD event, it seem's like a reason for me. Like i've already told ya, people get kicked just for the #competitive_spirit. If the future rewards will be not locked by any means of the top leaderbords it will do fine for me, but if not - you know my point here.

[tyrannicaltyrant]

1 hour ago, Stoner74 said:

Calling me names when you call competitive clans toxic. Fair enough... Don't be surprised seeing this thread locked because of things like this. 

When did I call competitive clans toxic?

[MelanyAliste]

I'm glad there aren't leader boards for this event. It means that most of my missing clanmates (missing for one reason or another) aren't dragging the rest of my active clanmates down. It means we aren't trying to double, triple, or quadruple up our score just so we can get a blueprint for our labs or some such so that somewhere down the line, if a friend joins us they can get it too.

We didn't get that lab blueprint, sadly.

If you want your competition, that's fine. Please, have it. I won't dissuade you from it or anything. If that's something you enjoy, then more power to you. However, for future events I'd like it if rewards like blueprints for the labs weren't locked behind leaderboards my clan can't tackle due to lack of active people. I'm still bothered by the fact that my clan can't offer a new player (and mutual friend of a few of us in my clan) a certain blueprint because only three of us weren't taken hold of by life at the time.

If there absoluely needs to be a reward, make it something that won't affect a lack of something being added to our labs or deny us possible clan affinity.

 

Edit: And to clarify, I have friends in my clan that are frequently taken by life matters. That doesn't bother me; that's just how things are. We keep them in our clan because they're our friends, and we don't want to leave them out in the cold just because life drags them away for any period of time. I don't mind that I'm among the few that have unlocked just about every research in our labs; we do it so the rest of our friends have access to the research. To have holes in this research due to an event is... disheartening in a way.

Edited November 11, 2017 by MelanyAliste
To add a few details.

[amirknighy]

I hope they give us some good mods like dual elictric mods or some event mods and some potatos i need tons of them snipetron vandal is easy to get

 

[(PSN)dst123daniel]

3 hours ago, Lokadrsu said:

Yall must consider the fact that there are people who just dont have time to grind several hours a day for an item in a video game

I feel like those steps are being made for making the game more friendly towards those, more casual players - a group that comprises a large portion of the player base

By putting more content beyond walls, you would be disregarding all of those players - imagine this from the viewpoint of a new player:

hey, this is gun/frame looks great!

game: yeah, gotta  grind for few hours, dozens maybe and conceivably then probably it will perhaps be yours!

To achieve anything in warframe requires large time investment, I dont´t think we need any more grind that we already have, game cant survive just from "veteran players"

however, there should be place for all playstyles. Surely, there must be some more elegant solution how to make game fun for casual players without letting the dedicated vetaran players down, as was said few comments above me, cosmetics for truly devoted players would be one way to go, and its not like there is any shortage of ideas on the forums.

Its definitely in DE capabilities to figure something out, if not for this, then for the next operation, when they don´t have hands full of POE

Most people posting in favour of leaderboards are not asking for any kind of exclusive extra for their efforts, just for those efforts to be recorded

[Stoner]

10 minutes ago, MelanyAliste said:

If you want your competition, that's fine. Please, have it. I won't dissuade you from it or anything. If that's something you enjoy, then more power to you. However, for future events I'd like it if rewards like blueprints for the labs weren't locked behind leaderboards my clan can't tackle due to lack of active people. I'm still bothered by the fact that my clan can't offer a new player (and mutual friend of a few of us in my clan) a certain blueprint because only three of us weren't taken hold of by life at the time.

If there absoluely needs to be a reward, make it something that won't affect a lack of something being added to our labs or deny us possible clan affinity.

Agreed. We're simply asking or a leaderboard, not weapon blueprints locked behind it. I do hope however for some sort of cosmetics or medal awarded to those who fought on those LBs. Something that won't affect your gameplay or MR. A badge maybe? Like the old Skull badges for top kill LB. It could work similar to clan trophies but instead, it would be an emblem (bronze, silver and gold). 

[MelanyAliste]

1 minute ago, Stoner74 said:

Agreed. We're simply asking or a leaderboard, not weapon blueprints locked behind it. I do hope however for some sort of cosmetics or medal awarded to those who fought on those LBs. Something that won't affect your gameplay or MR. A badge maybe? Like the old Skull badges for top kill LB. It could work similar to clan trophies but instead, it would be an emblem (bronze, silver and gold). 

Yes, this. Please. This would be fantastic. I agree with this 3400%.

[(PSN)dst123daniel]

If the event had leaderboards, but no extra reward for getting a score higher than the gold trophy for your dojo, all would be equal, with no difference to how the event runs, or rewards from it.

Players could choose how they want to play, with the competitive able to do what they like, and those who enjoy casual play able to get what they need.

The only problem would be those clans who have a large number of inactive players, but still want to be competitive.

Would it not be possible to have leaderboards that record an averaged score of the clan, like total clan score divided by number of members participants to give the clans leaderboard score? (still by clan size) that way even a 100 man clan with just one active member would have the same chance of a good position as if all 100 members were active. 

 

I understand that as game designers, DE need consider what the majority of the player Base wants, but they should also consider what the minority wants too. Many people seem sore about the ignis wraith, and I can understand why. But if there is no extra reward past those trophies, removing the leaderboards is just removing content that some enjoy, and others have no need to do. Are we gonna be loosing the trails too?

 

 

[JayJayTheScrub]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)dst123daniel said:

Are we gonna be loosing the trails too?

 

 

DE has already stated their position on trials in Devstream 100 

 

[Xana_Skullsunder]

28 minutes ago, MelanyAliste said:

I'm glad there aren't leader boards for this event. It means that most of my missing clanmates (missing for one reason or another) aren't dragging the rest of my active clanmates down. It means we aren't trying to double, triple, or quadruple up our score just so we can get a blueprint for our labs or some such so that somewhere down the line, if a friend joins us they can get it too.

We didn't get that lab blueprint, sadly.

If you want your competition, that's fine. Please, have it. I won't dissuade you from it or anything. If that's something you enjoy, then more power to you. However, for future events I'd like it if rewards like blueprints for the labs weren't locked behind leaderboards my clan can't tackle due to lack of active people. I'm still bothered by the fact that my clan can't offer a new player (and mutual friend of a few of us in my clan) a certain blueprint because only three of us weren't taken hold of by life at the time.

If there absoluely needs to be a reward, make it something that won't affect a lack of something being added to our labs or deny us possible clan affinity.

 

Edit: And to clarify, I have friends in my clan that are frequently taken by life matters. We keep them in our clan because they're our friends, and we don't want to leave them out in the cold just because life drags them away for any period of time. I don't mind that I'm among the few that have unlocked just about every research in our labs; we do it so the rest of our friends have access to the research. To have holes in this research due to an event is... disheartening in a way.

And even without friends being busy with life matters, this shouldn't be an issue. My friends don't play Warframe as much as I do, and that's okay. Welcome to the human race, a series of individuals with their own wants and means to pursue them, rather than a posse of 50 automatons with open schedules, perfect reflexes, and infinite patience that comprise your typical "hardcore" clan.

[osheroth]

18 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

-snip- we definitely miss days of competitive clans (as long as it wasn't toxic).

So, you don't miss them at all  ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 

[MelanyAliste]

24 minutes ago, Xana_Skullsunder said:

And even without friends being busy with life matters, this shouldn't be an issue. My friends don't play Warframe as much as I do, and that's okay. Welcome to the human race, a series of individuals with their own wants and means to pursue them, rather than a posse of 50 automatons with open schedules, perfect reflexes, and infinite patience that comprise your typical "hardcore" clan.

You're essentially echoing my clarification from what I can tell. Is there something you're actually trying to say here? The first sentence points toward that, then everything else is just echo to me. To a point it feels like you're trying to say I'm expecting way more out of my friends than I do, and that I don't know how people work, which if that is what you're trying to say, then please don't even start. :/ Just don't. If not, then there's no problem. I just can't tell what you're aiming for here. I rather ask and understand than assume and cause pointless drama.

Edited November 11, 2017 by MelanyAliste

[(PSN)dst123daniel]

47 minutes ago, ---RV---JayJay said:

DE has already stated their position on trials in Devstream 100 

 

I know they will likely not make any more, but we still have them, and are able to do them. Will they be removed from the game in future, just cos the majority don't want to do them?

[--RV--Jax]

"My ideal is that when you create content you have a lower barrier for entry, but when [players] are operating at that higher level of execution they have a way of measuring that success." - Steve Sinclair, dev stream 100. 

Providing a leaderboard for events would be a great tool to "measure that success" 

An exclusive reward provided to top tier participants (does not have to be tied to an MR gain, and can definitely be cosmetic) would be a motivator for some people to push harder during events. Lets be honest here with this point, Warframe has given away many exclusive rewards to "elite" participants: closed beta items, Excalibur Prime, Primed Chamber, and more. Having an exclusive reward is not a bad thing simply because it is exclusive, the world is exclusive and not everyone is able to acquire the best things life can offer simply for showing up. There will always be people who have and people who "have not," that's life.

Before I get misrepresented in the thread, let me clarify that I am not a founder, a veteran player by most people's standard, or someone who has been playing this game since inception. I do not  have many of the locked rewards, and have still found a way to enjoy what the game has to offer. I consider myself slightly more hardcore than a casual player (MR 22 in less than 600 hours of game play), and I look to events like operations to see how I can figure out the puzzles provided by the developers. My desire to include a leaderboard is not  so I can "wave my epeen," but more so I can see how the top tier players/clans are doing in the event and see how close I can get in relation to them. success can breed success, it doesn't have to create envy, toxic forum posts, name calling or other childish things.

 

[Aeruhat]

I don't care much for leaderboards as long as me and my clan have fun with this, and things don't go into utter BS due to glitches.

[Mofodo]

30 minutes ago, Jugwars said:

Before I get misrepresented in the thread, let me clarify that I am not a founder, a veteran player by most people's standard, or someone who has been playing this game since inception. I do not  have many of the locked rewards, and have still found a way to enjoy what the game has to offer. I consider myself slightly more hardcore than a casual player (MR 22 in less than 600 hours of game play), and I look to events like operations to see how I can figure out the puzzles provided by the developers. My desire to include a leaderboard is not  so I can "wave my epeen," but more so I can see how the top tier players/clans are doing in the event and see how close I can get in relation to them. success can breed success, it doesn't have to create envy, toxic forum posts, name calling or other childish things.

I think this brings up a very good point, even if its not your intended point. There's very few ways to actually see how well you're doing compared to other players. Sure, you can look at your MR, but as many of us know that doesn't determine whether or not you're a "veteran player." It is definitely a casual game, meaning it has that low barrier of entry; but there's also higher level content that requires veteran knowledge. Many of the mechanics in this game are quite in depth and a lot of players don't bother to invest in them. Those players who do would like to know how they stack up against the other "veteran players" and a leaderboard is a great way to do that.

[HeilSt]

Can you people who are salty af about no leaderboards stop and think why that is? Some people have other things to attend to in their lives and aren't able to play 24/7, thus allowing other clans with active members rocket past them and leaving clans with some inactive members in the dust. This would only be worse if you get rewarded depending on your clan's ranking. I wouldn't want people to be upset if their clan members couldn't help/participate which means they didn't get any rewards which will make even more salty players.

The point is, if you want a leaderboard, don't be salty and hate, don't ask for rewards for higher ranking clans on the leaderboard (because some clans have better advantages and it's unfair) and every clan should get the same rewards which makes the leaderboard thing just a fun, friendly competition, and more importantly, just enjoy the game. Don't try to be that backseat driver who tries to get everything to go their way.

Well, this is just my opinion (I wrote this in a rush with autocorrect on which sometimes will spell the wrong words).

[Me.KayOh]

3 hours ago, Stoner74 said:

Agreed. I'm certainly hopeful they will add more things to clans. I know they will, but when? Who knows. 

I'm especially looking forward to the custom clan missions. It's one of the things we need to make ourselves some really cool contests. 

I feel you there though bro. When? is the question. =) 

I'm willing to be patient. They havent let me down yet, as a developer. Especially in a climate where things like Andromeda happened. RIP. Stuff like that makes me thankful towards Digital Extremes.

[Mofodo]

2 minutes ago, HeilSt said:

Can you people who are salty af about no leaderboards stop and think why that is? Some people have other things to attend to in their lives and aren't able to play 24/7, thus allowing other clans with active members rocket past them and leaving clans with some inactive members in the dust. This would only be worse if you get rewarded depending on your clan's ranking. I wouldn't want people to be upset if their clan members couldn't help/participate which means they didn't get any rewards which will make even more salty players.

The point is, if you want a leaderboard, don't be salty and hate, don't ask for rewards for higher ranking clans on the leaderboard (because some clans have better advantages and it's unfair) and every clan should get the same rewards which makes the leaderboard thing just a fun, friendly competition, and more importantly, just enjoy the game. Don't try to be that backseat driver who tries to get everything to go their way.

Well, this is just my opinion (I wrote this in a rush with autocorrect on which sometimes will spell the wrong words).

How is it "unfair" that some clans have more active members? Most clans with active members have active members because they take the time to encourage members to stay active. I know my clan works very hard to ensure there are active members, we require people to inform higher ranking members if they will be offline for a while and we work with them. 

I fully understand that people don't want progression-based content locked behind these leaderboards which is fine. But its ridiculous that people think its just as hard to run a 10 person clan as it is to run a 100+ member one. Most of the time, clans who ranked high on the leaderboards in the past did so because they invested a lot of time and effort. 

[JayJayTheScrub]

14 minutes ago, HeilSt said:

Can you people who are salty af about no leaderboards stop and think why that is? Some people have other things to attend to in their lives and aren't able to play 24/7, thus allowing other clans with active members rocket past them and leaving clans with some inactive members in the dust. This would only be worse if you get rewarded depending on your clan's ranking. I wouldn't want people to be upset if their clan members couldn't help/participate which means they didn't get any rewards which will make even more salty players.

The point is, if you want a leaderboard, don't be salty and hate, don't ask for rewards for higher ranking clans on the leaderboard (because some clans have better advantages and it's unfair) and every clan should get the same rewards which makes the leaderboard thing just a fun, friendly competition, and more importantly, just enjoy the game. Don't try to be that backseat driver who tries to get everything to go their way.

Well, this is just my opinion (I wrote this in a rush with autocorrect on which sometimes will spell the wrong words).

you do realize that we are simply asking for the scores to be tracked and permanently recorded (as happened with past operations), no one in favor of a leaderboard (from what I've read) has an issue with there not being an in-game reward for placing high in it. The only time (in the past couple years) there has been such a reward was with Pacifism Defect and the Ignis Wraith blueprint becoming a part of the clans research. As for people upset at their inactive clan mates that would be wholly on themselves for either remaining in an inactive clan, not removing them for inactivity, or not making up for their lack of activity in scores, all while wanting to remain competitive. Its unfortunate but you cannot possibly compete in a event based on accumulating points with less people than your competitors. For this reason many competitive clans stay at smaller tiers, they can better manage the activity of their players by doing so.

Edited November 11, 2017 by ---RV---JayJay