So many QOL things are just not there, making this game painful to play for new users.

[justchad]

So as I play through this I plan to update this thread with things I find to be unnecessarily frustrating. I may even go back and watch some of my old streams to find some of the earlier stuff too.

Most of what has been driving my nuts can a lot of times be solved with improved descriptions and basic UI improvements and filters.

So first off the two things that spurned me to pop in here and post is:

1.) The Ayatan Sculptures and Stars. I got a ping to go to some new "mission" and apparently its a bazaar, and the first thing I run into is someone trying to buy these ayatan things for endo, well even though I've picked up a few of these during missions I had no clue what they were for. There may have been a mention earlier in the game but I don't recall it. So I bust out google and do some searching and apparently you can add the stars to the sculptures for..... some reason? So I find out you do it from the mods station so I go there and I can see the stars and the sculptures, but it's not overly obvious how how you go about adding the stars to the sculptures. A simple "click sockets to add stars" tip at the bottom of the sculpture's description would go a long way towards this 99% of the time when a game lets you inspect a 3d object in these situations, that's all you can do with it, inspect (*cough* ayatan star *cough*). Also adding what you can do with the thing would also be a big help. Does this thing actually do anything when it "Springs to life"? Or should I just sell it? 

UPDATE: Sintag was kind enough to tell me that these could be placed in my ship, and I just went into the game and couldn't find that option when in the Ayatan mods screen.

 

2.) Now on to the Foundry.... This thing is a mess, where to begin. I guess first, can we get a completed tab please? Also not sure how to best do this but I want to be able to distinguished things that are sub parts (parts needed to build something) from what those parts are needed for. I would also like to be able to click a button that pops up a description window that goes beyond the little one line hover over description, to find out exactly what these things actually do and what their prerequisites (with info links to the prereqs).

The description for Air Support Charges is: Charges consumed by Landing Craft Air Support... wtf does that even mean??? And what is this Landing Craft Foundry Segment that is required? A little info here please? Without me having to go out of the game and watching 5 different youtube videos to maybe figure it out? 

I'll stop here for now but these same things need to be applied though out the game as far as I can tell.

 

3.) Syndicate: The Description for Syndicates says wear a sigil to earn rep, but WHY would I want to do that? I have yet to encounter any of these groups afaik and not sure what there is to be gained (or lost) in wearing one of these. 

So I very hesitantly click one as I don't know if this is going to instantly lock me into one I click or not and thankful it appears that this doesn't instantly force me into anything, and I am then presented a little mini cut scene that really tells me nothing of value, then I see two options, Offering and Initiation.... Looks like is gonna be another 30 minutes to a hour with google and youtube.... screw it, I'll put it off and probably forget this even exists till I'm screwed for not picking one earlier. 

Edited December 4, 2017 by justchad
Added info. Added Syndicates

[VirtualViolet]

Yeah, DE/Warframe still has a lot of work to do documenting these (relatively) new and diverse systems and incorporating that into the in-game interface, most of which would fit right in with the Codex. Those of us who have been playing this game for years are used to seeing new things highlighted in update notes and such as they come out, but that doesn't help new players.

[Sintag]

4 hours ago, justchad said:

Does this thing actually do anything when it "Springs to life"? Or should I just sell it? 

It has a neat animation and can be placed as a decoration in your ship.  That's about it, really.

5 hours ago, justchad said:

I guess first, can we get a completed tab please?

There's an 'In Progress' tab, which tracks items in progress or completed builds.

 

Those are my two big things, as for the rest it seems as though DE has a major aversion to tutorials, and that's beginning to become a major problem.  I don't want massive amounts of hand-holding, but say, clicking on the segment-required builds indicates where you need to go to acquire said Segments (Tenno Lab in the Clan Dojo BTW), and that tooltip about clicking sockets to add stars would also be appreciated by new players.

[justchad]

5 hours ago, Sintag said:

It has a neat animation and can be placed as a decoration in your ship.  That's about it, really.

Good to know, I'm more interested in upgrades ATM so these are getting sold then, thanks :)

 

5 hours ago, Sintag said:

There's an 'In Progress' tab, which tracks items in progress or completed builds.

Ok cool thanks I thought they would get moved out of that once they finished so I never bothered to look.

5 hours ago, Sintag said:

Those are my two big things, as for the rest it seems as though DE has a major aversion to tutorials, and that's beginning to become a major problem.

Agreed, the few in game tutorial felt weak and not all that informative, not to mention very plain, no voice or animation.

 

5 hours ago, Sintag said:

clicking on the segment-required builds indicates where you need to go to acquire said Segments (Tenno Lab in the Clan Dojo BTW)

 Yeah I was really excited when I saw that you could tell where to go to farm things, but was disappointed, when I started looking for things and couldn't find it on any of the planets lists. It IS a good idea, but it was almost a great idea.

And thanks for the tip! :)

[(PSN)Nozomi244]

Or just.....google it

[Fallen_Echo]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Chimaera244 said:

Or just.....google it

Or JuSt...gOOglE It

 

Seriously, i had enough of this nonsense. We are filled with undocumented information, we even have mechanics what were not even explained or inspected because DE refuses to give out data and every time someone expresses his concerns theres always one small mindcapacity guy here whose best way to contribute to the topics is to go and tell people to google it.

But it seems like you are good with googling stuff so go ahead and find me how and at what rate does the beam weapon damage fluctuation happens. This things is completely undocumented no one was able to test it in a way what is acceptable to be put on the wiki.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

The absolute dumbest thing is the mod codex not telling you what each mod does until you actually own the mod. What's the point of having an in-game list of all mods in the first place if if forces you to google each mod you are missing to see what they do.

Asides from that, pretty much nothing is explained in regards to most systems. 

Game should tutorialise equipping mods, leveling mods, should give you reactor and catalyst and show you how to equip them... Should start with a foundry with some stuff in it... With perhaps a first craft given free of charge to teach players how to craft and rush items (free first rush).

Should also have a small modding tutorial, perhaps giving players a few somewhat important mods from the start (serration, split chamber, elemental mods, life strike, etc). Cracked mods kinda stink honestly.

 

[MrInubis]

3 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

But it seems like you are good with googling stuff so go ahead and find me how and at what rate does the beam weapon damage fluctuation happens. This things is completely undocumented no one was able to test it in a way what is acceptable to be put on the wiki.

It depends on weapon fire rate. Thats why increasing fire rate also increases status per second, more ticks = more chances for status.

Everybody seems to be on "better tutorials" train, sure it could get some improvements but the problem is somewhere else. This will be rude but most players are just to stupid. I watched 11 first impression videos and you wouldnt believe that stupidity. Let me give you example. There is a part in Vor's price quest where you unlock modding segment right? 9 out of 11 players didnt even check what they just unlocked, and none of them pressed "tutorial" button even once. Most players are to used to being spoon fed every information and than they complain because game didnt tell them what to do. I just dont get it. This was my natural reaction to check what i just unlocked, and i was like "oh so you can upgrade mods here, cool", i pressed tutorial button "ok so there are elemental mods that you can combine, awasome". There was also one guy that kept using "1" for melee (he was excal) despite huge banner saying that you use "E" for it. This few examples clearly tells that players are not willing to learn anything on their own. What players need more than tutorial is a slap in the face to wake up and think for once. This goes beyond just new players. Many cant even make a build or choose a weapon / frame on their own (just check few topics on PHP subforum). I can understand when new player asks for what they should aim for, thats ok but when somebody asks "i have this this and this what should i use" that just triggers me. I dont know from where this slave mentality came.

Edited December 4, 2017 by kuciol

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

I've brought my brothers into the game (I started a new account on PC -- I was an Xbox player long before that) and the lack of tutorials really shows. I've spent more time explaining how things work than actually running missions. One of my brothers didn't realize that the Enemy Level on mission indicators wasn't a restriction based on Mastery level -- he thought that since he was Mastery 2, he couldn't access missions that would say (for example) "Level 3-6." He just played Lith on Earth over and over and over again.

The fact that enemy level has basically nothing but a vague connection to your own rank/mastery is, as far as I know, not explained well anywhere. That's a tiny thing, but there are so many unexplained or minimally explained things. I've directed them to the Wiki, but it strikes me that as good as it is, a fan-created resource really shouldn't be the first place to go to understand essential gameplay. Perfect place to go for tips, tricks, stats, and all that -- but just to know what an Ayatan Star is? Nah. 

[justchad]

7 hours ago, (PS4)Chimaera244 said:

Or just.....google it

I know where you're coming from but I'm spending more time out of the game searching and watching videos that actually playing the game. trying to playing the game is getting in the way of playing the game.

[justchad]

43 minutes ago, kuciol said:

It depends on weapon fire rate. Thats why increasing fire rate also increases status per second, more ticks = more chances for status.

If this were WoW or the like I would agree with you but, but with weapon spread and lift, you also have to take into account how many of those "ticks" are actually falling on target or better, are head shots.

 

43 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Everybody seems to be on "better tutorials" train, sure it could get some improvements but the problem is somewhere else. This will be rude but most players are just to stupid. 

9 out of 11 players didnt even check what they just unlocked, and none of them pressed "tutorial" button even once.

Like the people you are criticizing, I think you may be being over generalizing.  If the 9 out of 11 (82%) players is a real number, then I would say that is an interesting metric that the devs might want to look into, sounds pretty high. As the player is constantly getting bombarded with pickup notifications maybe something like this needs a different sound and font/graphic associated with it or something.

 

44 minutes ago, kuciol said:

Most players are to used to being spoon fed every information and than they complain because game didnt tell them what to do. I just dont get it. 

You know this is interesting as you brought up something else I need to add to my list. The kubrow mission! We go from a decent amount of hand holding in the first few missions to, "screw you figure it out". I still haven't completed that mission. ffs.

 

44 minutes ago, kuciol said:

just check few topics on PHP subforum.

I don't think this means the same thing for you as it does for me...

[justchad]

49 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

I've brought my brothers into the game (I started a new account on PC -- I was an Xbox player long before that) and the lack of tutorials really shows. I've spent more time explaining how things work than actually running missions. One of my brothers didn't realize that the Enemy Level on mission indicators wasn't a restriction based on Mastery level -- he thought that since he was Mastery 2, he couldn't access missions that would say (for example) "Level 3-6." He just played Lith on Earth over and over and over again. 

The fact that enemy level has basically nothing but a vague connection to your own rank/mastery is, as far as I know, not explained well anywhere.

Ha ha ha ohh yes! I still don't know what I need to do exactly to move up in Mastery Level!! It sort of just happened the first few times, but I have no real idea what needs to be done to get to the next test!

My personal thoughts on that one would be to have the button always there (not ever greyed out) and if it's not ready, when I click it tell me why, and when it is put a gold border around it or something.

49 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

fan-created resource really shouldn't be the first place to go to understand essential gameplay. Perfect place to go for tips, tricks, stats, and all that -- but just to know what an Ayatan Star is? Nah. 

Couldn't have said it better. Thanks! 

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, kuciol said:

It depends on weapon fire rate. Thats why increasing fire rate also increases status per second, more ticks = more chances for status.

Everybody seems to be on "better tutorials" train, sure it could get some improvements but the problem is somewhere else. This will be rude but most players are just to stupid. I watched 11 first impression videos and you wouldnt believe that stupidity. Let me give you example. There is a part in Vor's price quest where you unlock modding segment right? 9 out of 11 players didnt even check what they just unlocked, and none of them pressed "tutorial" button even once. Most players are to used to being spoon fed every information and than they complain because game didnt tell them what to do. I just dont get it. This was my natural reaction to check what i just unlocked, and i was like "oh so you can upgrade mods here, cool", i pressed tutorial button "ok so there are elemental mods that you can combine, awasome". There was also one guy that kept using "1" for melee (he was excal) despite huge banner saying that you use "E" for it. This few examples clearly tells that players are not willing to learn anything on their own. What players need more than tutorial is a slap in the face to wake up and think for once. This goes beyond just new players. Many cant even make a build or choose a weapon / frame on their own (just check few topics on PHP subforum). I can understand when new player asks for what they should aim for, thats ok but when somebody asks "i have this this and this what should i use" that just triggers me. I dont know from where this slave mentality came.

Not status, damage fluctuation.

Beam damage weapons have damage fluctuation, the best example would be making a magnetic (that status doesnt really have any effect) amprex and shoot it at a lv100 bombard in the simalurcum. The damage goes up and down but there is no explanation, data sheets or anything avaible on this because of how it was created.

Also we are not on the better tutorial train we are on the give us tutorials train. I was already mr6+ when i seen someone bullet jumping and asked him how he does it. Before i had no idea how to do it.  The same goes for many things, the mod system in your example is a mess. A new player unlocks it, has no idea what does the buttons do, what the hell is fusion, what is transmution, the damaged mods make frequent problems.

[Sintag]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Stealth_Cobra said:

Game should tutorialise equipping mods, leveling mods, should give you reactor and catalyst and show you how to equip them... Should start with a foundry with some stuff in it... With perhaps a first craft given free of charge to teach players how to craft and rush items (free first rush).

I think most of these save the catalyst and reactor (and those aren't hard to find at all) are covered in Vor's Prize anyway.

[LuckyCharm]

Some things i figure need explaining more (ive played for 5+ years so i may be wrong):

Weapon damage. It's not really explained what the damage types do and who theyre good against.

Eximus types - a sanguine eximus is a tank? What the deus? 

Melee combos. Any indicator that youre pullinh off combos, or pausing correctly would be nice. 

Charge attacks, i know these suck but most newbies ive seen have no idea these even exist.

Dojo things. What exactly is an oracle and why do i need one etc. 

Mods. Where do i farm the specific ones i need when i cant see them in the codex because i havent owned one yet

Archwing controls. Most people don't know archwings have an additional boost ontop of sprint.

Conclave needs a new loadout? What? 

Bosses- oh i can actually farm these multiple times for different drops? (Seriously, as a newb i thought id get the next warframe part from the next boss)

Directions- where do i go now that i've completed vor's prize. It looks like i've just been dumped in the middle of the solar system and go to mars or venus but I'm not really directed to either. 

Specters- where do i get these for the junction quest? Rescues? No one told me this. 

Resources- i've seen so many people ask where to get neural sensors or orokin cells. 

Pets. Nothing about these is explained at all. Especially since without the upgrade they can die

[VirtualViolet]

11 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

Mods. Where do i farm the specific ones i need when i cant see them in the codex because i havent owned one yet

Minor point here: if you've completed the codex entry of an enemy that drops a mod (by getting the requisite number of scans with a codex or synthesis scanner), you can look up the mod by its name in the Codex, and it will show you the enemy (or enemies) that it drops from (I think it will also show missions that reward it). Only the mod polarity and stats are hidden until you acquire the mod. (Of course, everything I just said is the kind of information we're talking about here that should be available in the game.)

The Codex should just have a tutorial section with short walk-throughs about these kinds of things, especially where to find things in the interface. Ayatan sculptures being in the Mods station makes no sense, and Arcanes in the Foundry makes little sense. The list of resources that drop on a planet is easy to miss since they changed it to only show when you mouse-over the extractor icon.

I know why they haven't gotten around to this stuff - because it's always changing or subject to change, and updating in-game tutorials is a lot more time-consuming than someone just making/altering a wiki page (I still have no idea who updates that). Sadly, this may be something that we'll just have to expect and that new players will have to deal with.

A link to the wiki in the Codex might be a halfway decent substitute for now, at least.

[justchad]

2 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

Some things i figure need explaining more (ive played for 5+ years so i may be wrong):

Weapon damage. It's not really explained what the damage types do and who theyre good against.

Eximus types - a sanguine eximus is a tank? What the deus? 

Melee combos. Any indicator that youre pullinh off combos, or pausing correctly would be nice. 

Charge attacks, i know these suck but most newbies ive seen have no idea these even exist.

Dojo things. What exactly is an oracle and why do i need one etc. 

Archwing controls. Most people don't know archwings have an additional boost ontop of sprint.

Conclave needs a new loadout? What? 

Specters- where do i get these for the junction quest? Rescues? No one told me this. 

Resources- i've seen so many people ask where to get neural sensors or orokin cells. 

Wow had no idea about any of these or that the game even took combos into account. 

 

 

2 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

Pets. Nothing about these is explained at all. Especially since without the upgrade they can die

Wow, I am really glad you mentioned this, looks like I will have to do some research on this! ty!

 

 

2 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

Mods. Where do i farm the specific ones i need when i cant see them in the codex because i havent owned one yet

Bosses- oh i can actually farm these multiple times for different drops? (Seriously, as a newb i thought id get the next warframe part from the next boss)

 

ughh the only "boss" I know of is jackel, and if I never see the @#$R#% it will be too soon, had no clue what I was getting into when I walked into that room :(

 

2 hours ago, LuckyCharm said:

Directions- where do i go now that i've completed vor's prize. It looks like i've just been dumped in the middle of the solar system and go to mars or venus but I'm not really directed to either. 

Something/someone walking you through the first few missions and then saying something like, "Where you go next I leave to you, you may wish to work your way to [planet name] and do X, or head in the direction of Y and do Z but the choice is now yours to make" maybe a good point for this would be after he get the things removed from his frame... but something.... anything... would be better than just... nothing.

[justchad]

2 hours ago, VirtualViolet said:

Sadly, this may be something that we'll just have to expect and that new players will have to deal with.

A link to the wiki in the Codex might be a halfway decent substitute for now, at least.

For a F2P game, it would seem confusing/frustrating new players would be the exact opposite of what they want to do :(

I myself have considered moving on more than a few times already, but I do like how deep this game seems to go, I just still don't know if it will be worth the frustration.

 

 

[LuckyCharm]

12 minutes ago, justchad said:

Wow had no idea about any of these or that the game even took combos into account. 

 

 

Wow, I am really glad you mentioned this, looks like I will have to do some research on this! ty!

 

 

 

ughh the only "boss" I know of is jackel, and if I never see the @#$R#% it will be too soon, had no clue what I was getting into when I walked into that room :(

 

Something/someone walking you through the first few missions and then saying something like, "Where you go next I leave to you, you may wish to work your way to [planet name] and do X, or head in the direction of Y and do Z but the choice is now yours to make" maybe a good point for this would be after he get the things removed from his frame... but something.... anything... would be better than just... nothing.

Yeah its quite the struggle if you haven't grown with the game. Even then i still learn new things 5 years later, like how impact, slash, and puncture take priority when applying status rather than elementals if their damage is too high. It ruined my supra build and i didn't have a clue why until I asked a streamer. 

It's a good fun game, its just not the easiest to grasp what should be simple concepts. 

[(PSN)shadowraith_666]

until DE improves the tutorials and codex, this is the best source of info for warframe http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/WARFRAME_Wiki

[BlackCoMerc]

19 hours ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

I've brought my brothers into the game (I started a new account on PC -- I was an Xbox player long before that) and the lack of tutorials really shows. I've spent more time explaining how things work than actually running missions. One of my brothers didn't realize that the Enemy Level on mission indicators wasn't a restriction based on Mastery level -- he thought that since he was Mastery 2, he couldn't access missions that would say (for example) "Level 3-6." He just played Lith on Earth over and over and over again.

The fact that enemy level has basically nothing but a vague connection to your own rank/mastery is, as far as I know, not explained well anywhere. That's a tiny thing, but there are so many unexplained or minimally explained things. I've directed them to the Wiki, but it strikes me that as good as it is, a fan-created resource really shouldn't be the first place to go to understand essential gameplay. Perfect place to go for tips, tricks, stats, and all that -- but just to know what an Ayatan Star is? Nah. 

Two teens in our family play...and I am so sick of "how does this work" I could scream.

Both have told me that, if it weren't for my girl and I, they would have quit for not knowing how to play.

It's another symptom of DE having tons of GREAT coders and world builders but never having hired an actual GAME developer.

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

I did quit when I first tried the game - got through the first quest, was completely flummoxed by what to do next (or what I could do next), and dropped it like a hot rock. 

When I came back last December, 2 years after my initial essay into the game, I basically just killed things and did missions solo wondering if I was doing it right. I found the wiki, of course, and it's a great resource that helped a ton. But in the beginning, it was just "I...guess I'm doing what I should be doing?"

Edited December 5, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack

[BlackCoMerc]

8 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

I did quit when I first tried the game - got through the first quest, was completely flummoxed by what to do next (or what I could do next), and dropped it like a hot rock. 

When I came back last December, 2 years after my initial essay into the game, I basically just killed things and did missions solo wondering if I was doing it right. I found the wiki, of course, and it's a great resource that helped a ton. But in the beginning, it was just "I...guess I'm doing what I should be doing?"

Same here, actually. Had it not been for the Rock Paper Shotgun clan, I'd have quit the second time, too. The game doesn't even explain basic, core mechanics.

And they wonder why new players aren't staying...DE needs a game designer.

[(PSN)cdzbrbr]

I don't mean to sound rude nor to take away 100% of your reason, the game for obvious reasons does lack some briefing on various points; but hell, it's an rpg, if you aren't googling, reditting, ultimately theorycrafting, then digging some more on your own, you're doing it wrong.

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

Well, I know that now. I was not big on the RPG scene or thoroughly familiar with the "Help Me Google" approach to RPG theorycrafting at that point -- I think I basically owned Destiny and Warframe, and never really thought to go hunting for information online.

I am much more enlightened now.