Excalibur in the Plains

[daSweep]

As you can see from my profile picture and fancy title, I am a Founder. Being a Founder means having one of the things others can never have; Excalibur Prime. I love my Excalibur Prime, he is still my most played frame after many years of playing this game, but with the release of the PoE my love for him has diminished (slightly). I remember back when Excalibur got his rework. Exalted Blade was the best thing ever, and I loved it. I have continued to love the ability up to this day, but it under performs in the Plains, to say the least. 

I have made this suggestion before, even when the PoE wasn't a thing, but the blade waves from Exalted Blade needs to be faster. And I mean much faster. Not only does it look silly with the slow moving waves Excalibur shoots out, but in larger areas like the Plains, they are almost unusable. Why would I ever use my ultimate ability, when a sniper rifle could just kill anything better and more efficiently? 

I'm not saying the blade waves should be as fast as a bullet, that would be ridiculous, but seeing all the new frames with their great feedback and visuals makes me sad. Make the waves faster, and give them some more "oomph" while you are at it. This would make Exalted Blade more fun to use, and make it much more viable in the Plains.

[-Mandachordian-Tenno-]

i'd propose a different approach, the higher your combo is the faster the waves would fly through the air with a max of 50% increased flight speed maxing at 3x combo counter

[K4RN4]

32 minutes ago, daSweep said:

Why would I ever use my ultimate ability, when a sniper rifle could just kill anything better and more efficiently?

Why would you ever use a sniper rifle, when exalted blades could just kill anything better and more efficient? 

Exalted Blade is good for short and medium distance. Plains of Eidolon features a lot of long range combat, so EB is not gonna be very effective. A warframe can't be good at everything.

[daSweep]

2 minutes ago, Oru5732 said:

Why would you ever use a sniper rifle, when exalted blades could just kill anything better and more efficient? 

Exalted Blade is good for short and medium distance. Plains of Eidolon features a lot of long range combat, so EB is not gonna be very effective. A warframe can't be good at everything.

Of course, you are right. However, I think more than wanting Excalibur to be good at everything, I think the PoE update just highlighted how lackluster Exalted Blade can be to use in larger areas. I mean, forget the Plains, the ability feels and looks kinda silly even in larger rooms in our older tile sets.

I just want the ability too feel and look as good as it should. DE has shown that they really can make some impactful frames and abilities that give really great feedback. I just don't think this is the case with Exalted Blade. The waves are too static looking and slow moving. It might sound picky and silly to some, but I really think it would add much to the feel of Excalibur if the blade waves were sped up.

[Kalvorax]

1 hour ago, -Mandachordian-Tenno- said:

i'd propose a different approach, the higher your combo is the faster the waves would fly through the air with a max of 50% increased flight speed maxing at 3x combo counter

except that the CC only goes up from melee range hits...and ONLY if you have Drifting Contact equipped will it stay.

[BlackCoMerc]

4 hours ago, daSweep said:

As you can see from my profile picture and fancy title, I am a Founder. Being a Founder means having one of the things others can never have; Excalibur Prime. I love my Excalibur Prime, he is still my most played frame after many years of playing this game, but with the release of the PoE my love for him has diminished (slightly). I remember back when Excalibur got his rework. Exalted Blade was the best thing ever, and I loved it. I have continued to love the ability up to this day, but it under performs in the Plains, to say the least. 

I have made this suggestion before, even when the PoE wasn't a thing, but the blade waves from Exalted Blade needs to be faster. And I mean much faster. Not only does it look silly with the slow moving waves Excalibur shoots out, but in larger areas like the Plains, they are almost unusable. Why would I ever use my ultimate ability, when a sniper rifle could just kill anything better and more efficiently? 

I'm not saying the blade waves should be as fast as a bullet, that would be ridiculous, but seeing all the new frames with their great feedback and visuals makes me sad. Make the waves faster, and give them some more "oomph" while you are at it. This would make Exalted Blade more fun to use, and make it much more viable in the Plains.

To be fair, OP,  the Plains invalidate a LOT of AoE/Range based damage abilities. It's not just Excal.

I think this is deliberate. I think DE wanted to create situations where in we needed to engage in firefights and use weapons.

I like it. It's just a pity the team who designed the (mostly terrible) Bounty/Incursion Missions weren't on the same page...

[Uberipoo]

5 hours ago, -Mandachordian-Tenno- said:

i'd propose a different approach, the higher your combo is the faster the waves would fly through the air with a max of 50% increased flight speed maxing at 3x combo counter

The waves don't build combo counter...

I have never had any success with a combo build for exalted blade...

[InquisitorKane]

4 hours ago, daSweep said:

Of course, you are right. However, I think more than wanting Excalibur to be good at everything, I think the PoE update just highlighted how lackluster Exalted Blade can be to use in larger areas. I mean, forget the Plains, the ability feels and looks kinda silly even in larger rooms in our older tile sets.

I just want the ability too feel and look as good as it should. DE has shown that they really can make some impactful frames and abilities that give really great feedback. I just don't think this is the case with Exalted Blade. The waves are too static looking and slow moving. It might sound picky and silly to some, but I really think it would add much to the feel of Excalibur if the blade waves were sped up.

You are not understanding that ExBlade is for medium and short distances while PoE is all about vast space.It's the same as if you said that knife is no good in vast space - of course it's not. Or as if you complained that sniper rifle is too slow for killing a horde of enemies. Sure it is. Sniper rifle is to take out single target from a distance. For horde of enemies you have machine gun or flamethrower..

You just want Excal to be good for everything so you don't have to switch your loadouts, but that would be just lazy development and bad for a gameplay in general.

Why should I collect other WFs and weapoins if I can just get Excal, give him a potato and few formas and can run all the levels with it? That's just wrong.

PS: I already use Excal and the blade in PoE and never had a problem for I have my sniper rifle as a primary and if I get closer I switch to the blade. Easy.

[(NSW)fonglis]

Il y a 5 heures, -Mandachordian-Tenno- a dit :

i'd propose a different approach, the higher your combo is the faster the waves would fly through the air with a max of 50% increased flight speed maxing at 3x combo counter

that cause another problem , exalted blade is in the sa situation of hysteria and other exalted weapons , they don't have combos counter and it's good right that , add combo counter open they to the melee combo mod like blood rush and other , and this take they more op

[Rage_Inducer]

Faster waves won't make much of a difference since they'd still have damage falloff over distance. Any distance where the wave speed seems too low is most likely too big for you to do propper damage in.

This might also be somewhat of a placebo but I just can't shake off the feeling that a single wave moving slower can hit more times than a faster one as it's in contact with the enemy longer.

I can't help but be somewhat salty over missing Excal Prime but I made 4 of the regular kind, modded each one differently and have had huge success with my exalted blade by modding in some range, not necesarily 200% or above, more in the area of 145~160%. Just use your 1 to close the gap between you and your enemy. Uses more energy, sure, but you kinda have to do that in any tileset to make the most out of your Exalted Blade.

[Uberipoo]

8 minutes ago, Rage_Inducer said:

huge success with my exalted blade by modding in some range

The waves from exalted blade are not affected by range at all... only the blind radius from the slide attack...

[Rage_Inducer]

5 hours ago, Uberipoo said:

The waves from exalted blade are not affected by range at all... only the blind radius from the slide attack...

...really? You read the next sentence after that and couldn't put 2 and 2 together? Fine, I'll just spell it out for you.
You mod in some extra range so your slash dash can takes you further, letting you cover even more ground, faster than what you can with just parkour moves.

Too many people seem to forget or outright ignore that Excalibur's Slash Dash can be used for mobility.

Instead of trying to snipe snipers with a sword, I just dash at them. The actual range at which they can spot you is usually within 1 to 2 bullet jumps and a dash.

 

[(PSN)Boomstickman98]

10 hours ago, daSweep said:

Of course, you are right. However, I think more than wanting Excalibur to be good at everything, I think the PoE update just highlighted how lackluster Exalted Blade can be to use in larger areas. I mean, forget the Plains, the ability feels and looks kinda silly even in larger rooms in our older tile sets.

I just want the ability too feel and look as good as it should. DE has shown that they really can make some impactful frames and abilities that give really great feedback. I just don't think this is the case with Exalted Blade. The waves are too static looking and slow moving. It might sound picky and silly to some, but I really think it would add much to the feel of Excalibur if the blade waves were sped up.

You remember the days when EB had infinite range? Ah, those were the days.

[Cortanis]

Not really an excal fan myself, but I do have to admit that the blade speed is rather lagging behind. At this point, we have a number of abilities, weapons, and even now zaw arcanes that can prove a bit more effective if only due to the speed. They need a speed buff in a bad way now. D:

[White_Matter]

On 05.12.2017 at 3:09 PM, -Mandachordian-Tenno- said:

i'd propose a different approach, the higher your combo is the faster the waves would fly through the air with a max of 50% increased flight speed maxing at 3x combo counter

Not a bad idea but it should be more reasonable. First off, the waves should be able to collect combo points. If you have to physically hit the target with your blade to be able to get a combo point, it makes the whole ability redundant anyways.

The speed should be :

50% at 1.5

100% at 2

150% at 2.5

200% at 3+

 

It is really hard to maintain a combo counter in the plains anyway. You can hardly see anything above 2.5.

 

[(PSN)Hollow118]

On 12/5/2017 at 8:21 AM, daSweep said:

Of course, you are right. However, I think more than wanting Excalibur to be good at everything, I think the PoE update just highlighted how lackluster Exalted Blade can be to use in larger areas. I mean, forget the Plains, the ability feels and looks kinda silly even in larger rooms in our older tile sets.

I just want the ability too feel and look as good as it should. DE has shown that they really can make some impactful frames and abilities that give really great feedback. I just don't think this is the case with Exalted Blade. The waves are too static looking and slow moving. It might sound picky and silly to some, but I really think it would add much to the feel of Excalibur if the blade waves were sped up.

As an Excal lover, I'd like to offer an additional point of view.

Initially, I agreed with you, but I began to think about other frames with Exalted weapons.

Let's take Valkyr, as her Hysteria has no wave slashes, and no means of CC/Gap Closing outside of Rip Line. It is very well possible of course, to Rip Line enemies to you to finish off with Hysteria, but I think by then, You're better off using Excalibur in that scenario. (Personal opinion, don't shoot me Valkyr mains D:)

Wukong also has this problem but his staff has wider range to play with, but Ivara has Artemis Bow and succeeds as long range exalted play. 

I will agree 100% on the wave slashes being slower than damn molasses. Seriously, slap Primed Fury and Berserker on your exalted blade and you begin to swing faster than your blades can travel, almost until they stack onto each other. They shouldn't be this slow. And yeah, it looks hilarious watching someone spamming EB in the Plains and watching the waves crawl through the air.

My point is, not every frame with an exalted weapon will triumph in the Plains, but each frame with an exalted weapon has a situational purpose where they can outclass each other, I like where he is, but yes that wave speed needs to go up big time!

[daSweep]

Well, Valkyr is immune to damage while her "exalted" status is activated, so closing the gap is no real problem.

And like I said in my last post, I have kind of gone away from the whole balance thing on this, and focus more on the feedback and looks of it. Like Hollow118 says, it just looks stupid with such slow waves. I don't think speeding the waves up will mess up the balance of this game at all. There are frames that can kill anything much easier (Mesa comes to mind) or become straight up invincible, so giving Excalibur faster blade waves to make him feel better and more fun to use shouldn't be a problem really..

[CreamedSoda]

How to make me laugh at you, start the sentence with. "As you can see from my profile picture and fancy title, I am a Founder. Being a Founder means having one of the things others can never have; Excalibur Prime" 

And founders wonder why the community hates them.

[BL4CKN0ISE]

No thanks. I remember when I loved Excalibur. I use to dash to enemies and attack them up close. Then one day I played with a friend while he was using Excalibur. That's the first time I realized there were waves and it ruined it for me. It's a sword. The waves are already a bonus. I don't think they need to be any faster IMO. I would be okay with some type of charge attack that makes one go faster tho, but EB shouldn't just be some automatic super high damage wave gun. The speed of the waves balance it somewhat. 

Anyways, Excalibur on the plains should be more focused around his 1 and 2 IMO. Good mobility and CC seem to be better for the plains. Use a gun if you want to shoot things accurately from far away.

[Darkholde]

On 12/5/2017 at 4:53 AM, daSweep said:

As you can see from my profile picture and fancy title, I am a Founder. Being a Founder means having one of the things others can never have; Excalibur Prime. I love my Excalibur Prime, he is still my most played frame after many years of playing this game, but with the release of the PoE my love for him has diminished (slightly). I remember back when Excalibur got his rework. Exalted Blade was the best thing ever, and I loved it. I have continued to love the ability up to this day, but it under performs in the Plains, to say the least. 

I have made this suggestion before, even when the PoE wasn't a thing, but the blade waves from Exalted Blade needs to be faster. And I mean much faster. Not only does it look silly with the slow moving waves Excalibur shoots out, but in larger areas like the Plains, they are almost unusable. Why would I ever use my ultimate ability, when a sniper rifle could just kill anything better and more efficiently? 

I'm not saying the blade waves should be as fast as a bullet, that would be ridiculous, but seeing all the new frames with their great feedback and visuals makes me sad. Make the waves faster, and give them some more "oomph" while you are at it. This would make Exalted Blade more fun to use, and make it much more viable in the Plains.

No. You need to learn to play Excal then because he has the tools he needs and it sounds like you are complaining that you can't use one power to solve all problems.

Other Exalted frames all have some options to get them to the enemy and I don't beleive any of the others have the AOE options of Excal. So you want to play him on the plains, then learn to make a range build so his Slash Dash takes you far, his blind has good range and your Javelin can reach. If EB was fast then it also reduces the need for him to be using his other abilities which compliment his EB weakness perfectly.

Snipers rarely have had the chance to be used in their predominant range in the mini map, long range. So no need to lessen this as well.

For someone claiming to play him a lot sure seems like you don't know him.

[BlackCoMerc]

On 12/6/2017 at 7:39 AM, Cortanis said:

Not really an excal fan myself, but I do have to admit that the blade speed is rather lagging behind. At this point, we have a number of abilities, weapons, and even now zaw arcanes that can prove a bit more effective if only due to the speed. They need a speed buff in a bad way now. D:

I disagree.

His Ult is a MELEE Ult. That it hits anything beyond melee range, is a BONUS. If you want Exalted Blade with range, at hitscan speed, use Mesa. Whose vulnerable, I might add, to melee, where Excalibur excels...

Excalibur doesn't need to be effective at gun range. Nor should he be.

[White_Matter]

On 08.12.2017 at 7:44 PM, BlackCoMerc said:

I disagree.

His Ult is a MELEE Ult. That it hits anything beyond melee range, is a BONUS. If you want Exalted Blade with range, at hitscan speed, use Mesa. Whose vulnerable, I might add, to melee, where Excalibur excels...

Excalibur doesn't need to be effective at gun range. Nor should he be.

Melee is weak tho, overall. Inferior to most ranged abilities and weapons. Exalted blade needs additional bonuses to make excalibur effective anywhere outside a 5 square meter room.

[BlackCoMerc]

Just now, White_Matter said:

Melee is weak tho, overall. Inferior to most ranged abilities and weapons. Exalted blade needs additional bonuses to make excalibur effective anywhere outside a 5 square meter room.

A whole lot of Warframe takes place in small rooms. In which, Excalibur excels.

And it looks like Ghouls will soon be a thing on PoE, and most of them using Melee to boot. Ought to make Excalibur more worthwhile there. 

But you take your tradeoffs. Its a great Melee Ult...but it IS a MELEE Ult. Which means, of course, that yes, range is limited.

[White_Matter]

2 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

A whole lot of Warframe takes place in small rooms. In which, Excalibur excels.

And it looks like Ghouls will soon be a thing on PoE, and most of them using Melee to boot. Ought to make Excalibur more worthwhile there. 

But you take your tradeoffs. Its a great Melee Ult...but it IS a MELEE Ult. Which means, of course, that yes, range is limited.

I think the OP was talking about how playing POE made him realize how weak Excal is outside corridors and small rooms.  And some new tilesets as well feature large open spaces or bigger rooms aside from POE where exalted blade doesn't do much. And considering Excal is all about his ultimate, there is a merit to what he is saying.

Btw you keep saying it but it clearly isn't designed to be solely melee as the blade extends into waves. 

A charge option, which allows the waves to get bigger and travel faster, would most certainly give Exalted Blade alot more versatility and legitimize its use outside narrow spaces.