Allow us to buy PoE resources and fish with regular starchart resources.

[Ventura_Highway]

On 12/26/2017 at 10:30 AM, low1991 said:

I'm not saying i represent the group of unhappy players, but i'm name'ing my IGN as one of those whom are unhappy.

You aren't doing that. I have no grievances with the quality of your post.

But the post you originally quoted/replied was written in response to another post which contains what I think is an appeal to the majority, something like saying "Everyone is doing it so it must be right." and I think your complaint about the post takes it a little out of context into a territory it wasn't meant to cover.

I would personally take a poll over someone's aggressive suggestion that (everyone/no one/some people) (likes/dislikes) a (warframe/mission type/mechanic) but if you're disinclined to trust that data that's fine. I just wanted to say that I've personally designated as a rule of thumb to myself that if someone has something they feel strongly about and want changed in the game, they will probably write about their grievance and won't need assistance sharing it.

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

On 12/24/2017 at 5:38 PM, GnarlsDarkley said:

PoE is a side activity. You don't NEED to do anything there. If fishing and mining bothers you, just don't do it.

The only "real" thing you miss is the Amps and Teralysts which won't give you anything outside PoE

Not entirely true though. Someone that doesn't like mining and fishing  and decides to ignore these things will be unable to get/do the following things:

- Won't be able to get proper Amps, which allow the Operator actually be usable to clear starchart missions up to a somewhat reasonable level (mote amp is just plain terrible).

- Won't be able to get Zaws, some of which are best in slots for their weapon category.

- Will be missing a huge chunk of mastery points since they won't have all gilded zaws and amps.

- Will be missing out on operator arcanes that can do cool things , like fully healing your frame at the press of a button, zaw arcanes, some of which are really cool and amp arcanes, which can really make the amps even stronger and more versatile.

- Won't be able to use archwing charges (since it requires fish parts).

-------------------

 During operation plague star, we had ways to turn standing into eidolon gems/fish parts, which imho was a great feature, as it allowed people to progress and get stuff done in the plains that would require a ridiculous amount of time fishing and mining by doing bounties instead. Granted, the bouty itself was a huge bore and I'm almost getting nam flashbacks thinking about it, but I do think it should become a permanent feature... Let us purchase resources with our regular cetus standing.

Just give us a trader where you can exchange rep for gems and fish parts... In an ideal world, mining, questing and fishing in the plains should all yield similar returns in terms of time investment... Someone could mine for X hours, turn it into X standing, then use X standing to buy X fish parts. Likewise, someone that hates mining and fishing could just run bounties all day and then convert said standing into the ressources he needed.

Heck, might as well introduce a quill cores to cetus standing conversion system too, that way eidolon hunters can actually do what they enjoy (hunting eidolons all night every night cycle) and then convert them to cetus rep, then into gems or fish parts if they need them. Cause right now, I have pretty much everything I wanted to buy from the Quills, and this means any future cores I get are kinda useless to me unless new quill stuff gets added in the future.

Edited December 26, 2017 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[AperoBeltaTwo]

3 hours ago, Ventura_Highway said:

I think that if someone cares enough about a problem they'll speak up about it themselves. Pretending to be the mouth of a legion of distressed and unhappy players isn't going to fly in my book.

3 hours ago, Ventura_Highway said:

I just wanted to say that I've personally designated as a rule of thumb to myself that if someone has something they feel strongly about and want changed in the game, they will probably write about their grievance and won't need assistance sharing it.

 Silent majority. A lot of people don't bother or don't have courage to express their opinion. For example, "we approach 26 million registered lose-Users", but only 40k of those users actively create online for Warframe. That's 25 million players who registered in Warframe, saw it and didn't like it. Without going to the forums, without bothering to leave a comment. They saw the game, didn't like it and left. You could subtract from that number as much as you want (you could say not all of those users actually ever logged in etc), it's still gonna be a huge number of people who didn't like Warframe. Current Warframe players are a part of a survivor paradox. Minority that simply isn't bothered by the problems and negatives this game has (however objective or subjective those negatives might be). And people who actually go on the forums to express their opinions are a minority of a minority.

Edited December 26, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 hour ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

@AperoBeltaTwo:

I think a better option would be "trade POE resources for normal resources."

That way if people enjoy POE they have a reason to go there and farm extending even beyond POE, and there is no need to get into extended webs of resource exchange rates further down the line.

You mean, trading PoE resources for the resources we could farm anywhere else? It it a typo? What do you mean?

[Ventura_Highway]

On 12/26/2017 at 11:14 AM, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 Silent majority. A lot of people don't bother or don't have courage to express their opinion. For example, "we approach 26 million registered lose-Users", but only 40k of those users actively create online for Warframe. That's 25 million players who registered in Warframe, saw it and didn't like it. Without going to the forums, without bothering to leave a comment. They saw the game, didn't like it and left. You could subtract from that number as much as you want (you could say not all of those users actually ever logged in etc), it's still gonna be a huge number of people who didn't like Warframe. Current Warframe players are a part of a survivor paradox. Minority that simply isn't bothered by the problems and negatives this game has (however objective or subjective those negatives might be). And people who actually go on the forums to express their opinions are a minority of a monority.

I will make clear that I am not interested in talking with you. End of story.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

I love to fish! Everyone in my clan loves the fishing on PoE, even my wife loves it. I want to be able to fish in other maps. Like ur goin along in an infested exterminate and all of a sudden u see a boiling pool of funk... Low and behold, u pull out ur fishing gear and a infested mass with find swims up to say hi:)

 

@DE can we plz get fishing in other maps/tileset???

[MirageKnight]

23 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

Name the people who want it gone.

Cuzz you know what? Fishing is a god damn hit. A lot of people ACTUALLY ENJOY FISHING IN WARFRAME!
Get it through your thick skull.

I wouldn't miss it if it were gone. Warframe was fine without it, and it would still be fine without it. You need to be reminded of that fact and you also need to be reminded that your opinion does not equal fact. It's a hit? Whatever you say...and nothing will change that fact that fishing has nothing to do with high tech weapons and abilities - nor should it. 

Let me remind you that a vast majority installed Warframe to play as badass elite space soldiers with unique abilities, not because of the fishing. We're here primarily to kill and explore, not play Farmville or Stardew Valley in space.

You want to fish? Fine, go do so and leave the rest of us out of it - and kindly do so in a solo instance. The one thing I hate about PoE is going into a public, night instance of PoE to hunt down a Teralyst - only to find some selfish, inconsiderate, clueless schmuck that's too obsessed with throwing spears and bait into the water to help everyone else out.

If you really like it that much...Well fine, go play another game that's better suited to your tastes and stop trying to change Warframe into something that it isn't and shouldn't be.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

2 hours ago, Ventura_Highway said:

I will make clear that I am not interested in talking with you. End of story.

 Oh lol, seriously? You gonna hold grudges and be emotional in a forum conversation? Then why did you even respond in the first place? Why are you present in the thread if you don't want to talk? Just to derail it or something? Or to harass people who disagree with you? If that's your intention, please, leave. If you have something personal that you don't like about me, you're welcome to my PM. 

Edited December 26, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Acersecomic]

2 hours ago, low1991 said:

Name you names? Me, low1991.

Actually, how would this name'ing thing proof that alot of people actually enjoys fishing? There's no voting feature in forum that limits a vote to each account.

Third party voting are un-reliable. You'r name me a list of names is way worst than saying a statement with absolute no evidences at all.

People who don't speak out and those who speak in favor of it.

Boosh! There's your majority vote.

There is the I LIKE, NEUTRAL, and DISLIKE.

If you observe, there ain't that many people against fishing. Those who like it will defend it, neutrals are fine either way cuzz they go with the flow, don't mind it, don't care enough to be bothered by it or speak out, etc etc... And then there's the few that speak out for a small group of people. Want change? Make them show themselves, raise your numbers enough to be relevant.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

 GUYS! GUYS! WE'RE NOT TALKING HERE ABOUT REMOVING FISHING FROM THE GAME. YOU ARE PERFECTLY ENTITLED TO LIKE OR DISLIKE FISHING, AND MINING. NOBODY HAS A RIGHT TO TELL YOU OTHERWISE. ARGUING OVER TASTES IS POINTLESS.

 This thread is about a situation where certain COMBAT-oriented content is GATED behind non-combat oriented SIDE ACTIVITIES. Side activities that are being FORCED onto anyone who would want to gain access to this combat-oriented content. Whether they like fishing or not.

Edited December 26, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Acersecomic]

4 minutes ago, MirageKnight said:

I wouldn't miss it if it were gone. Warframe was fine without it, and it would still be fine without it. You need to be reminded of that fact and you also need to be reminded that your opinion does not equal fact. It's a hit? Whatever you say...and nothing will change that fact that fishing has nothing to do with high tech weapons and abilities - nor should it. 

Let me remind you that a vast majority installed Warframe to play as badass elite space soldiers with unique abilities, not because of the fishing. We're here primarily to kill and explore, not play Farmville or Stardew Valley in space.

You want to fish? Fine, go do so and leave the rest of us out of it - and kindly do so in a solo instance. The one thing I hate about PoE is going into a public, night instance of PoE to hunt down a Teralyst - only to find some selfish, inconsiderate, clueless schmuck that's too obsessed with throwing spears and bait into the water to help everyone else out.

If you really like it that much...Well fine, go play another game that's better suited to your tastes and stop trying to change Warframe into something that it isn't and shouldn't be.

Why are you hunting Eidolons in pubs? The guy fishing is clearly there to fish, why do you blame him for needing help? Maybe he has bait for higher tier fish you might actually be grateful for.

And I am fishing. And I would leave you to your own devices were it not for the fact you'd see it out and away. So here I am, minding my business.

And yeah, I talk about it like a fact cuzz I am quite confident in what I am saying, from acumulated excperience.

For your information, this too is Warframe, added into the game not by me or fans asking for it, but by DE themselves. It is more Warframe than your version of it. I'm not trying to change it. I'm trying to keep it what devs made it to be. Cuzz I am enjoying the new addition and so are many others. Face the facts.

Oh and life in the solar system has been completely and utterly changed by Orokin bioengineering. There is litttle to no original life left in Sol. Who is to say there is no valuable harvestable material in those things?

[Acersecomic]

5 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 GUYS! GUYS! WE'RE NOT TALKING HERE ABOUT REMOVING FISHING FROM THE GAME. YOU ARE PERFECTLY ENTITLED TO LIKE OR DISLIKE FISHING, AND MINING. NOBODY HAS A RIGHT TO TELL YOU OTHERWISE. ARGUING OVER TASTES IS POINTLESS.

 This thread is about a situation where certain COMBAT-oriented content is GATED behind non-combat oriented SIDE ACTIVITIES. Side activities that are being FORCED onto anyone who would want to gain access to this combat-oriented content.

^^

Agreed. We're getting a bit more offtopic than it could be allowed. Let's not end up closing the thread.

[DiabolusUrsus]

1 hour ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

You mean, trading PoE resources for the resources we could farm anywhere else? It it a typo? What do you mean?

Yes, I mean trading PoE resources for resources that could be farmed anywhere else.

This provides several benefits:

• Removes the need to use PoE resources for any crafting recipes. (obviously, excluding things like baits)
• Gives players who enjoy fishing/mining an indirect value for their acquired loot.
• Sets a precedent for any additional open-map-specific resources in the future. For example, let's say they add hunting to the Venus open-map. They can handle it the same way as fishing, where players can exchange animals/parts for standing/resources.
• Players who hate fishing/mining can safely ignore them without needing to come back and exchange resources they could use elsewhere for specific different resources.

Let's say a player needs Polymer Bundles. Under this proposed system, they could a) just farm polymer bundles or b) farm fish/minerals/gems to exchange for polymer bundles if that floats their boat.

Under the original proposed system (normal resources for POE resources) players must now split their polymer bundles between stuff that actually requires bundles and stuff that requires, say, Murkray livers.

Simply put I'm suggesting an implementation where players can simply ignore Fishing/Mining instead of doing extra grinding elsewhere for the purpose of being able to ignore Fishing/Mining. There is no reason to make either activity directly tied to core resources.

Edited December 26, 2017 by DiabolusUrsus

[Helaton]

On 12/24/2017 at 10:22 PM, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 Do you really enjoy farming Acolytes, playing hundreds of short repetitive starchart missions against low-level enemies that can't even scratch you, while running around the randomly generated maps looking for a particular room where One Specific Enemy would spawn, and that's the only enemy in the entire mission you actually need? 

 I mean, it could have been worse. It could have been an event about fishing. Acolytes are at least about combat.

I'll add that my favorite thing about this, is a reason to run around in frames I don't use that often with weapons I don't use that often which gives it a different flavor. I don't mind it as much for this.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 hour ago, Acersecomic said:

For your information, this too is Warframe, added into the game not by me or fans asking for it, but by DE themselves. It is more Warframe than your version of it. I'm not trying to change it. I'm trying to keep it what devs made it to be. Cuzz I am enjoying the new addition and so are many others. Face the facts.

 What we have here is a situation where one part of the community enjoys fishing, and the other part of the community hates the guts of it. We don't have actual numbers behind this, so pitting one "a lot of people" against another "lot of people" is unproductive. None of us have the access to statistics and we shouldn't be basing the conversation around it. This is what led to arguing over tastes for which I'm partially responsible as well.

 

All we could do is exchange points here, so hear my points if you will: 

• For the entire lifespan of the game (6-odd years being public) the main focus of Warframe as a game was PvE combat. Warframe was always about Space Ninjas doing spaceninja stuff, fighting hordes of enemies with firearms, melee weapons and space magic. Almost all updates in the history of this game were centered around enhancing and tweaking this Space Ninja PvE expierience. This is heart and soul of the game.
• Fishing and Mining, whether you like them or not, have very little relation to this combat-oriented core of the game, classifying as a "Side activity". In most games activities like that are designed to be entirely optional (examples: logging and mining in Skyrim, or Lunaro/PvP in Warframe)
• The Problem is that gear like Amps and Zaws is an exclusively combat-oriented gear. Yet this gear could only be obtained through mostly "non-combat" gameplay, through side activities that wouldn't even utilize said gear. Forcing players to engage in unrelated Side activities to unlock core-gameplay content. Effectively, keeping that bit of core-gameplay content hostage to the kind of side activities that would usually be optional in other games.

 

 

Edited December 26, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[MirageKnight]

7 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

Why are you hunting Eidolons in pubs?

Because I don't feel like dealing with Recruit chat?

7 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

The guy fishing is clearly there to fish

And they need to do that on their own time. Difficulty goes up the more players there are in an instance and this is especially true during the day.

7 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

Maybe he has bait for higher tier fish you might actually be grateful for.

I couldn't care less about what kind of fish they were after. When I pub, I expect to fight. You're also assuming that PoE is mostly about fishing and that I'm also there to fish...and you're definitely wrong on the latter. I fish on my own time with my own bait. As I said before, I go into public instances for a group hunting effort, not to faff around with spears and be a fifth wheel.

Do tell me one thing...what's the point of going into a public instance if your intent is to do whatever you want and ignoring whoever else joins the same instance unless they want to do the same non-combat activity you're engaged in? Want some fishing buddies? Go to recruiting chat, find some like-minded people and form your own private instance.

Warframe is not an MMO like Final Fantasy IV or Guild wars II. It's a CO-OP third person shooter - and I think I need to re-emphasize the co-op and shooter parts because some players don't seem to get it these days.

7 hours ago, Acersecomic said:

Cuzz I am enjoying the new addition and so are many others. Face the facts.

You go enjoy it then. I'm not telling you that you should or shouldn't. But you need to face the facts that not everyone likes the fact that Archwing, Amps, Arcanes, Zaws and such are tied behind a tedious, dedicated activity and fish guts. Me and a lot of people don't like that one bit. So YOU need to deal with the fact that not everyone shares your opinion.

If fishing was tied strictly to cosmetic items and temporary, craft-able, and consumable stat "boosters" for Operators, I'd be perfectly fine with that. Even in and of itself, it's nice that DE is giving us something else to do. But making fish parts a requirement for tech stuff and weapons? That kind of arbitrary garbage needs to be thrown out the nearest airlock.

Edited December 27, 2017 by MirageKnight

[AperoBeltaTwo]

 Quotes from PM conversation with @DiabolusUrsus (I didn't quite understand the suggestion he posted earlier, so I asked for clarification. Thanks, btw.):  

3 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

I'm suggesting changing the existing recipes to exclude POE resources and use standard resources instead.

The parts are already grind-gated by Ostron standing (meaning veterans can't simply buy all the parts and craft them instantly), and the ability to exchange POE resources for normal ones means that time spent fishing/mining isn't wasted.

I'd also be fine with substitute resources, though I think that's a more convoluted solution. I suppose it would also be fine to work POE resources into bounties as supplemental rewards (meaning you can get Norg Brains, etc. from running bounties, but they won't replace the actual bounty rewards from the drop pool).

2 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Oh, that's vicious. I'm not against it, cause fishing and mining is annoying, but that would make fishing and mining completely pointless. And as much as I would want that to happen, it's too harsh to the people who enjoy it. It would have made sense to do this in the first place, without creating a ton of new resources for PoE, but at this point, unfortunately, it's too late. Gosh... they should have done this from the start, nobody would have cared about fishing if it didn't exist in the game in the first place.

 

 p.s. May I quote this^ (you) in the thread? Just to document your suggestion with the rest of the conversation. I won't edit anything.

2 hours ago, DiabolusUrsus said:

Yeah, go ahead.

Though please note I should hope that the exchange rates would be tweaked such that mining/fishing isn't completely pointless, but it shouldn't be more time-efficient than simply running missions elsewhere. Mining and fishing should be entertaining little side activities that offer some rewards, but they shouldn't compare to playing Warframe.

They're there for those who like them, and easy to ignore for those who don't.

Also, fishing/mining resources are exchangeable for Ostron standing while starchart resources aren't, so there's that in their favor (rates notwithstanding)

 

 IMHO, this^ is how Ostron blueprints should have been done from the start. Instead of wasting a ton of time creating new exclusive resources for Cetus, new items should have been based on the same set of resources as everything else in the game. I honestly believe, if fishing didn't exist in the game in the first place, nobody would have missed it. People don't come to a game about Space Ninjas thinking: "I wish I could fish on the side of a puddle with a spear." It's not what people play games like Warframe for. Oh well, since fishing is already in the game and some people like it, nothing could be done.

But don't force fishing and mining on the people who dislike it! 

Edited December 26, 2017 by AperoBeltaTwo

[DroopingPuppy]

On 2017. 12. 26. at 3:39 AM, Acersecomic said:

Name the people who want it gone.

Cuzz you know what? Fishing is a god damn hit. A lot of people ACTUALLY ENJOY FISHING IN WARFRAME!
Get it through your thick skull.

I, DroopingPuppy, really want it gone.

[DroopingPuppy]

1 hour ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

But don't force fishing and mining it on the people who dislike it! 

That's the true point. Do some fishing and mining if we want is totally fine, but forced to do both fishing and mining is annoying as hell.

[low1991]

21 hours ago, Ventura_Highway said:

You aren't doing that. I have no grievances with the quality of your post.

But the post you originally quoted/replied was written in response to another post which contains what I think is an appeal to the majority, something like saying "Everyone is doing it so it must be right." and I think your complaint about the post takes it a little out of context into a territory it wasn't meant to cover.

I would personally take a poll over someone's aggressive suggestion that (everyone/no one/some people) (likes/dislikes) a (warframe/mission type/mechanic) but if you're disinclined to trust that data that's fine. I just wanted to say that I've personally designated as a rule of thumb to myself that if someone has something they feel strongly about and want changed in the game, they will probably write about their grievance and won't need assistance sharing it.

 

off-topic:

K. Now we need forum over-haul, so complains/QQ/rant about a game mechanisms can be properly categorized. And not push to the 3rd or so page of the forum, not requiring bump to keep topic/post up before locked by CM for nerco.

We also need an in-built forum poll feature.

When? Never...

Topic. Logically, trading resources for another resource of same rarity still works. Like how trading in the world works before common currency. (ie, trading fish for stone etc).

Edited December 27, 2017 by low1991
Wow.. Forum spoiler funtion is broken... text after [/spoiler] also included in spoiler tab

[(PSN)fullblast35]

play mario or zelda.  or anything with no incentives.