/

[KelsierSurvivor]

As soon as I read the title I knew which side I was. 

The Orokin were elite dirt bags. I have despised them for everything they have done. When listening to Teshin's description of Continuity in The War Within, you find out that the Orokin watched live pornography and had auctions for who would get the most attractive Yuvan. I would LOVE to see someone TRY to find something not completely messed up about that...

In what universe is it ok to take children and turn them into soldiers? I mean, really, a Warframe might make it a little safer, but not really. Transference can be broken pretty easily apparently. The Queens did it, the Stalker did it, the discovery of ourselves did it. All that really needs to happen is for someone or something to touch a Tenno to break the Transference link. 

I could go on for much longer, but back to the subject. 

The Orokin were dirt bags as stated. I wouldn't ever trust one. However, I've always liked the Sentients for some reason. I think Hunhow was really only ever out to get us because he felt responsible and guilty for losing Natah, his daughter. Any parent would feel guilty if their child makes a wrong decision. Natah betrayed the Sentient to take care of the Tenno, so Hunhow probably just thought that getting rid of the cause of the problem could make things normal again. He is heard in The Second Dream begging for Natah to return. 

"Become the one I love, become Natah once more." 

I have failed to find anything that Natah did to be wrong. She's made mistakes, yes, but everyone does. Even machines. (People really call these little screens that react to our fingers "smart phones"?)

I would choose the Sentient anytime. I try to keep from going on Eidolon hunts if possible since I like the Sentients so much. I'd choose Natah/Hunhow over Ballas anytime. 

Space Mom and Space Grandpa all the way!

Edited January 9, 2018 by KelsierSurvivor

[FreeWilliam]

Team sentient FTW!

[KelsierSurvivor]

24 minutes ago, Mingcrusher said:

what do you mean by messed up? i dont get it...

you can have issues with the yuvans being enslaved in the first place, but this?

You don't see how that is messed up? It's fine if you don't, I'm just curious. 

[Tarak]

23 hours ago, KelsierSurvivor said:

As soon as I read the title I knew which side I was. 

The Orokin were elite dirt bags. I have despised them for everything they have done. When listening to Teshin's description of Continuity in The War Within, you find out that the Orokin watched live pornography and had auctions for who would get the most attractive Yuvan. I would LOVE to see someone TRY to find something not completely messed up about that...

In what universe is it ok to take children and turn them into soldiers? I mean, really, a Warframe might make it a little safer, but not really. Transference can be broken pretty easily apparently. The Queens did it, the Stalker did it, the discovery of ourselves did it. All that really needs to happen is for someone or something to touch a Tenno to break the Transference link. 

I could go on for much longer, but back to the subject. 

The Orokin were dirt bags as stated. I wouldn't ever trust one. However, I've always liked the Sentients for some reason. I think Hunhow was really only ever out to get us because he felt responsible and guilty for losing Natah, his daughter. Any parent would feel guilty if their child makes a wrong decision. Natah betrayed the Sentient to take care of the Tenno, so Hunhow probably just thought that getting rid of the cause of the problem could make things normal again. He is heard in The Second Dream begging for Natah to return. 

"Become the one I love, become Natah once more." 

I have failed to find anything that Natah did to be wrong. She's made mistakes, yes, but everyone does. Even machines. (People really call these little screens that react to our fingers "smart phones"?)

I would choose the Sentient anytime. I try to keep from going on E idol on hunts if possible since I like the Sentients so much. I'd choose Natah/Hunhow over Ballas anytime. 

Space Mom and Space Grandpa all the way!

There a problem with that thinking in the fact that Hunhow's original plan stopped at the last step... our eradication. His plan was for Natah to find a form we would trust and allow us to seem to have defeated the Sentient so they could use us to kill the Ruling Orokin and cause the Collapse, all of which succeeded, but then Natah was supposed to kill us.

I believe the reason she didn't isn't love for us as she believes, but a sort of Void induced delusion caused by being connected to our minds... driving her to protect us against everything she believed before before meeting us. I hope that she'll have confused doubts through the process of the next quest or two but will eventually decide that she is happier as The Lotus than as Natah (and will also reject and fight back against becoming a 'new Margulis' under Ballas' thumb) in the same way that Ordis, on rediscovering his memories as Ordan Karras decided that he hated his former self and wanted to be just Ordis, our friend, caretaker, and protector.

Edit: Also, you realize that the Eidolons are essentially the manifestation of a dead sentient's mind, a sort of postmortem spasm, right? That in running an capture (not kill) you're essentially putting that fragment of it's mind to rest?

Edited January 9, 2018 by Tarak

[SunsetChaos]

Natah and Hunhow.

I only recognize Natah as Lotus and Space mom, not Margulis.

If it's a choice between Ballas or Hunhow, Hunhow. Blue freak or a bad as sentient machine.

Edited January 9, 2018 by SunsetChaos

[Orabell]

Maybe if we choose between Orokin and Sentient maybe we get Prime/Umbra stuff (Not exclusively ofc just like factions)

[KelsierSurvivor]

10 hours ago, Tarak said:

There a problem with that thinking in the fact that Hunhow's original plan stopped at the last step... our eradication. His plan was for Natah to find a form we would trust and allow us to seem to have defeated the Sentient so they could use us to kill the Ruling Orokin and cause the Collapse, all of which succeeded, but then Natah was supposed to kill us.

I believe the reason she didn't isn't love for us as she believes, but a sort of Void induced delusion caused by being connected to our minds... driving her to protect us against everything she believed before before meeting us. I hope that she'll have confused doubts through the process of the next quest or two but will eventually decide that she is happier as The Lotus than as Natah (and will also reject and fight back against becoming a 'new Margulis' under Ballas' thumb) in the same way that Ordis, on rediscovering his memories as Ordan Karras decided that he hated his former self and wanted to be just Ordis, our friend, caretaker, and protector.

Edit: Also, you realize that the Eidolons are essentially the manifestation of a dead sentient's mind, a sort of postmortem spasm, right? That in running an capture (not kill) you're essentially putting that fragment of it's mind to rest?

Hm. I did realize that, I just didn't think about it that way much. It makes sense. But still, the reason the Eidolon is roaming the plains in the first place is because it wants to become whole again. You know, find it's limbs and stuff. After that, it probably wants to find a way to reconnect to a mothership so as to re-establish life. 

[TARINunit9]

Seeing as Ordis can take over mission control duties himself, I'm starting to get a distinct "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"/"SMT3 Nocturne" styled "screw all y'all, I'm striking out and defining my own path" kind of vibe from how I want th story to unfold. I have no intention of letting the Sentients win, it's best for the Orokin to stay in their graves (that means you, Ballas), Stalker and his acolytes can suck on my Hek barrels for all I care, the Quills (even though they're good guys) are REALLY freaking annoying and I don't care about their amps, and Lotus... I think its time for Lotus to accept that it's the fate of all mothers to say goodbye to her children

I am Tenno. None but myself decide my path. I have been faking the fact that I remember anything before I awoke for too long, and I care to fake it no longer. I have no nostalgia for Zariman 10-0 and sadly none for Margulis, as much as she did for us. So from here I strike onward, to whatever fate has in store. Together with the strength of Zariman, Warframe, Helminth, and Cephalon, I declare that I am Tenno

[lavalamp3002]

Am 1/4/2018 um 23:32 schrieb royblazin:

        After hearing of the Lotus's disappearance, Hunhow seeks out the Tenno with the help of the Shadow Stalker, by bringing the Lotus's helmet and allowing the Shadow Stalker, who is connected to Hunhow to touch the helmet , we are able to locate exactly where Margulis/Natah is and we go to her with the Stalker. But upon arrival, we discovered that Ballas has separated Natah and Margulis by performing continuity on the memories of Margulis that are contained within Natah, transferring her into a new body and ultimately separating her from Natah.

        During the journey together with the Stalker and Hunhow, Hunhow shares his side of the story from the Old War, he states that the Orokin are cruel and that the Orokin are evil, for what they have done, their hatred for the Orokin and all things Orokin were so strong that he and his daughter were willing to sacrifice their ability to reproduce, which was sacred to them, for the sake of those in the Tau System and in order to destroy the Orokin and everything that they have created including the "Void Demons", an entity he refers to as completely cold and indifferent, he tells us of how the Orokin worship it and how the Sentient were despised by it, but also about how the Tenno are the gateways for it to pass through into this world and that is why all of the Orokin including the Tenno must be destroyed or the Old War will never end. You, the Operator, then argues that things didn't have to be this way at all and that if we could just talk things out and come to an understanding, you try to convince Hunhow that his way of thinking is wrong, but then he snaps at you saying that you do not remember what you did or what you truly are...then after a moment of silence he says that you are not completely wrong though and begins talking about the Sentient culture and life and how family is the most important thing to them and through those talks you realize how much the Sentient care for each other and would be willing to sacrifice anything to keep each other safe. You now realize that you may have been fighting on the wrong side all along.

        The Shadow Stalker was also listening in to this story and conversation between you the Operator and Hunhow, but he remains silent through the whole thing. Upon arrival and meeting Ballas with Margulis and Natah both separated, Ballas then begins to explain to the Tenno what his goals are, he tells the Tenno about how he plotted the down fall of the Orokin for revenge on what they did to Margulis, and how Margulis opened his eyes to what they truly are, so he made a plan to have the council approve of the plan that will one day allow for the creation of the Sentient, but also a way to save the Tenno so that they would not be disposed of but revered as heroes. So he worked together with the Sentient Natah and Natah herself confirms this. But now that the Tenno have awakened Ballas wishes to build a new Orokin Empire together with Margulis by his side, one for the greater good this time, to bring order back into the Origin System and unite everyone once again to prepare for the greatest threat that lies beyond the void who has been manipulating the Orokin for millenias. But Hunhow, upon seeing Ballas with his daughter, his hatred boils over and his hatred boils over, as he commands Hunhow to cut down the Orokin filth, the cause of all his people's grief!

        In that moment Margulis who also had memories of her time being the Lotus tries to stop Hunhow and attempts to reason with him so that he would put aside his hatred for the Orokin, in that moment Natah cuts in and agrees with Hunhow that the Orokin may try to use the Tenno to oppress the system once again, but Natah states honestly that she does not want to lose her children now that their real mother has returned.

         Hunhow then orders the Shadow Stalker to cut down Ballas and Margulis but Ballas being a true Orokin gives Shadow Stalker to serve the Orokin that he loved so much an oppritunity to serve an Orokin Executor and help lead his new Empire. Hunhow then reminds the Tenno and the Stalker how cruel the Orokin truly are and that Ballas will only betray them in the end and reminds them of the cruelty they have done to men, women, and children and to all who lived under them and all who did not follow their beliefs. Ordis then cuts in stating that he remembers......He remembers what Executor Ballas did! But then he quickly calms down and asks what will you choose Operator?

        Here is where both you the Operator and the Shadow Stalker must make a choice. The Shadow Stalker is now conflicted and so are you. So which side will you choose, Tenno?

 

All credit for the theory goes to my beloved clan leader who came up with this...

Interesting story there mate, allow me to back this up for you a little. First of all, the whole margulis and lotus makes sense; Ballas was in love with Margulis and now, given the chance to get her back I'm sure he would take it. Also, if we look at the umbra trailer where he says "their life, for yours" he is likely talking to lotus, I say that because, 1. i don't think ballas has ever once directly talked to us before ,and in 'apostasy prologue' he acts as if we're not even there. 2. If he were talking to us, what "life" of ours would he take? I doubt it would be the operator, as it wouldn't make sense to take the operator off of some players due to a choice they made, and they've already gone through 2-3 iterations of it trying to perfect it.  Also , anything else of ours wouldnt  really fit the whole "your life" thing. So, i think we can safely say that one of the main conflicts will be lotus over Margulis. Now, the rest is anybodies guess, due to the mysterious nature of many of the characters at play, there's a alot of different ways this could end.

[KelsierSurvivor]

1 hour ago, Mingcrusher said:

The Yuvan were doomed after their capture. Even if one Orokin would let his free, it probably wouldn't change anything, from the impression I have from the Orokin empire, they would probably get executed for "betrayal" if they didn't offer their body. If they are dead anyways, not using their body would be a waste.

About the life pornography thing: look at our current society. I live in germany and 'depraved' is not even close to describing the state it is in. So it isn't that much of a surprise and I'm not really shocked. Humanity will probably never change and therefore: why care?

The auctions for the best yuvan: This is a matter of further survival for an Orokin, either they get one of the best new bodies to ensure their prolonged existance or they get a lot of money for giving away a good yuvan, which helps them strengthen their position in society. Different people care about different things and the part where one could see the issue is one of the main problems with the free market, you can sell anything to anyone given the right amount of money and as long as this pattern exists, exactly this will happen.

Think about it like this: If you were about to die in a few weeks and you would have the possibility to live on for some more years by killing somebody you didn't know who had no influence on your life, wouldn't you do the same? I know I would.

Interesting... However, I am saying that it's messed up in a different way. Slavery is wrong in my eyes. Most people would agree with me. I also think pornography is wrong. I see nothing good about it. Now the best Yuvan could be one of two things. You opened my eyes to a different angle that I hadn't looked at it from before.

I originally thought that the whole live porn thing was so the Orokin could retain their "beautiful" state. Look for the best looking Yuvan, auction for it, trade bodies. (Or maybe it destroys the soul of the Yuvan? I don't know where I heard this, but it seems like it's confirmed in my mind... Where did I get that from?... This is gonna bother me.) That sounds kinda messed up to me. 

But something I hadn't expected was that maybe the Orokin wanted a healthy Yuvan... That's an interesting side of it, but even saying it now, it still doesn't make much sense. In the Cephalon Fragment transmissions, Ord|an Karr|is quotes Ballas. "We have died countless times, yet remain eternal!" Seconds before he'd said, "In an instant, naked and barren knuckled, I have killed immortals. I stare, drained of blood, of life, at those that remain. But I find no horror on their faces. Why!? I let out a cruel howl and they, laugh!? Is this some dying hallucination!? The sound of applause rose among them! I have killed the unkillable! They are delighted..." 

This hints that the Orokin are not afraid of death. But why would they not be? Maybe this line from the Nekros Prime Trailer will enforce my point...

"Your graces, we, who are beyond death, have forgotten the simple power of fear. Let us now remember. You will find no greater power than the simple thought of your own name inscribed upon a grave." 

It sounds to me like the Orokin have some strange connection with Continuity. Continuity is the process that allows them to switch bodies, as we know, but I think it allows for more than just leaving the body they are in now and starting over. I think it allows for their soul to move to a new body even after death occurs. 

So this would mean that a healthy Yuvan doesn't matter. They just wanted the attractive ones. 

1 hour ago, Mingcrusher said:

Think about it like this: If you were about to die in a few weeks and you would have the possibility to live on for some more years by killing somebody you didn't know who had no influence on your life, wouldn't you do the same? I know I would.

No, I wouldn't, for several reasons. 

Spoiler

 

1: In the War Within, Teshin says that the Kuva is both a poison and a tool for immortality. How can these two exist together? Another user said a long time ago something along the lines of this... "Immortality is something that the Orokin didn't deserve. When you get enough of what isn't yours, it begins to poison your mind." I think that this is what Teshin meant. I wouldn't want to have my mind poisoned.

2: I don't think we should be able to live forever. I know alot of people will not like me bringing this up to explain my point, but I'm gonna do it anyway. God doesn't want people to live forever. At least not on Earth. Genesis 3:22 says, "And the Lord God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and also take from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." A little bit of background info for anyone that might not know, long story short, Adam and Eve had just eaten from The Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. This meant that they had realized what is wrong and what is right. They realized that they were unclothed and knew that it was wrong. God had told them not to eat the tree's fruit since it would make them die. Satan, taking the form of a snake, tricked the two into eating fruit from the tree. God said that they shouldn't become immortal because of eating of the other tree (The Tree of Life). He does not want us to live forever on Earth is what this verse implies. He does promise us through Baptism in Jesus that we will live forever in Heaven with him since our Sin would be washed away through Jesus's blood and we would therefor be pure enough to live in Heaven with him. So if God doesn't want me to live forever, I won't. I don't want to anyway. I would only be willing to live forever if God wanted me to. Think though. Living forever means that all of your friends would be dying while you moved on. You would be eternal, but your friends would all be dying. 

Also, a side not to this line, "If you were about to die in a few weeks and you would have the possibility to live on for some more years by killing somebody you didn't know who had no influence on your life, wouldn't you do the same?" No, no I wouldn't. I would actually rather die so that the other person could live forever and have a chance of being Baptized and therefor saved. Even if they were already Baptized and save through Jesus, I would rather die than have them die. It would be a really selfish way to live. I also wouldn't be able to live knowing that I was only alive because someone else had to die. 

 

In the spoiler is my thoughts on why I wouldn't want to live forever. It involves alot of my religious beliefs. Read if you want, but I figured that most people wouldn't want to, so I put it in the spoiler for their convenience.

I don't mean any of that to be offensive, I just want to state what I think. 

[Omnijack]

I side with whoever Rebecca voices. There is only one true space mom.

[royblazin]

1 hour ago, Omnijack said:

I side with whoever Rebecca voices. There is only one true space mom.

Rebecca will be voicing both of them. Margulis will have emotion and Natah will remain the same as she always was.

[(XBOX)Grihaly]

2 dead Orokin, a Sentient with no physical form, and Space Mom. Wow, such choices.

[enivanfamilia]

Easy. Choose the one with best looking upgrades for your fashionframes or the side wich offers to play as stalker(soon^TM)

[Kaotyke]

Honestly? Natah is the better choice. I will be highly pragmatic here.

While Margulis is the one who helped us at the start with the Second Dream, she, a scientist, is not what we need right now. We need someone who can command and has a vast network to mobilize all Tenno at the same time, and who is better at it than a living machine that can subvert all technology?

Margulis was with us at the start, but Natah was the one who traveled the journey with us.

[KelsierSurvivor]

2 hours ago, Kaotyke said:

Honestly? Natah is the better choice. I will be highly pragmatic here.

While Margulis is the one who helped us at the start with the Second Dream, she, a scientist, is not what we need right now. We need someone who can command and has a vast network to mobilize all Tenno at the same time, and who is better at it than a living machine that can subvert all technology?

Margulis was with us at the start, but Natah was the one who traveled the journey with us.

Well said. But still, we could be missing out on some lore if we don't choose Margulis... 

[SilentMobius]

12 minutes ago, KelsierSurvivor said:

Well said. But still, we could be missing out on some lore if we don't choose Margulis... 

Were not going to "miss out" on anything, there is no way DE would split the player base, period. Lore reveals will not be tied to individual player branch decisions.

Feel free to discuss who you think you like the most, but there will be no in-game consequences that aren't resolved into a global steady state, because otherwise it's a money sink with minimal return on investment.

 

[KelsierSurvivor]

Just now, SilentMobius said:

Were not going to "miss out" on anything, there is no way DE would split the player base, period. Lore reveals will not be tied to individual player branch decisions.

Feel free to discuss who you think you like the most, but there will be no in-game consequences that aren't resolved into a global steady state, because otherwise it's a money sink with minimal return on investment.

 

Well, it could be like choosing different choices in The Second Dream and War Within. There's different dialogue that explains different things. It could be something like that. We still get to hear the lore later from other players and the wiki and such, but it's definitely not the same as experiencing it for yourself.

[SilentMobius]

On 1/10/2018 at 3:37 PM, KelsierSurvivor said:

Well, it could be like choosing different choices in The Second Dream and War Within. There's different dialogue that explains different things. It could be something like that. We still get to hear the lore later from other players and the wiki and such, but it's definitely not the same as experiencing it for yourself.

Sure, but there will be no result of that choice save a piece of VO and/or a gauge shift. People aren't going to get a new announcer or similar. DE aren't going to reimplement every single Lotus line now and in the future with some other character because of a quest choice.

[Kishward]

On 1/9/2018 at 5:07 PM, TARINunit9 said:

Seeing as Ordis can take over mission control duties himself, I'm starting to get a distinct "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"/"SMT3 Nocturne" styled "screw all y'all, I'm striking out and defining my own path" kind of vibe from how I want th story to unfold. I have no intention of letting the Sentients win, it's best for the Orokin to stay in their graves (that means you, Ballas), Stalker and his acolytes can suck on my Hek barrels for all I care, the Quills (even though they're good guys) are REALLY freaking annoying and I don't care about their amps, and Lotus... I think its time for Lotus to accept that it's the fate of all mothers to say goodbye to her children

I am Tenno. None but myself decide my path. I have been faking the fact that I remember anything before I awoke for too long, and I care to fake it no longer. I have no nostalgia for Zariman 10-0 and sadly none for Margulis, as much as she did for us. So from here I strike onward, to whatever fate has in store. Together with the strength of Zariman, Warframe, Helminth, and Cephalon, I declare that I am Tenno

I love this post, lol.

I agree with this sentiment with the caveat that we connect with the exiled Tenno talked about in Chains of Harrow. Rell, and presumebly the man in the wall being examples. Maybe Wally is a leader or ambassador or something for a new faction of Tenno? Would be cool!

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

I for one bet a I told you so that the what happens next will shake us up like The Second Dream

[royblazin]

On 1/7/2018 at 11:39 PM, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

Hmm..It seems Ordis is the true space dad.

I too shall follow Ordis!😂

ORDIS IS MASTAH RACE!

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On January 8, 2018 at 12:16 AM, (Xbox One)Riknav said:

I personally think something of this nature will happen.

 I believe Hunhow or someone from his camp, will have a way to corrupt/change our warframe to bring about umbra's. I just hope that they don't decide to make us chose between umbra's and primes.

Just have 2 of every Prime so you can convert 1. 

Or buy the corresponding Unvaulted pack that will release with the Umbra conversion 😊 Alert.

Frosty-twitch-Prime might be next for Umbra conversion after Excalibro Umbra Sacrifice Reward.

DE certainly has "opportunized" us with bonus ways to get him...

Edited January 20, 2018 by (PS4)Silverback73

[(PSN)Silverback73]

On January 8, 2018 at 12:35 AM, KelsierSurvivor said:

As soon as I read the title I knew which side I was. 

The Orokin were elite dirt bags. I have despised them for everything they have done. When listening to Teshin's description of Continuity in The War Within, you find out that the Orokin watched live pornography and had auctions for who would get the most attractive Yuvan. I would LOVE to see someone TRY to find something not completely messed up about that...

In what universe is it ok to take children and turn them into soldiers? I mean, really, a Warframe might make it a little safer, but not really. Transference can be broken pretty easily apparently. The Queens did it, the Stalker did it, the discovery of ourselves did it. All that really needs to happen is for someone or something to touch a Tenno to break the Transference link. 

I could go on for much longer, but back to the subject. 

The Orokin were dirt bags as stated. I wouldn't ever trust one. However, I've always liked the Sentients for some reason. I think Hunhow was really only ever out to get us because he felt responsible and guilty for losing Natah, his daughter. Any parent would feel guilty if their child makes a wrong decision. Natah betrayed the Sentient to take care of the Tenno, so Hunhow probably just thought that getting rid of the cause of the problem could make things normal again. He is heard in The Second Dream begging for Natah to return. 

"Become the one I love, become Natah once more." 

I have failed to find anything that Natah did to be wrong. She's made mistakes, yes, but everyone does. Even machines. (People really call these little screens that react to our fingers "smart phones"?)

I would choose the Sentient anytime. I try to keep from going on Eidolon hunts if possible since I like the Sentients so much. I'd choose Natah/Hunhow over Ballas anytime. 

Space Mom and Space Grandpa all the way!

My theory goes one step further and fully supports your sentiments:

I believe the Tau Sentient homeworld is a paradise devoid of any military.

Soldiers like Natah and Hunhow accept voluntary and eternal exile to become monstrous soldiers who can never return home.  Once beyond the rails, they are forever corrupted as instruments of war.

Sound familiar? (Tenno)

I also believe the modding systems we use are based on Sentient Adaptation, and Warframe skins are Sentient "husks" (HUNHOW @made from our bones) injected with Void-irradiated, Helminth-strain infested flesh.

(Oberon is a curious exception)

I'll go so far as to say Orokin cells/cores/catalysts are corrupted or genetically modified base-form Sentients (Embryos).

Truly a monstrous way to use children to turn Sentient weapons and adaptation against  them.

Sounds just like the Orokin.

 

Edited January 20, 2018 by (PS4)Silverback73

[Ricardo58]

I'll side with our Space Mom and our new Step Space Dad obviously.

Edited January 20, 2018 by Ricardo58