Does anyone here actually like the Operator?

[Wind_Blade]

We are the operators so you do not love you? and before someone tells me that we are the operator and the warframe I tell him no because we are the operator who controls a remote warframe. So you hate yourself even hum rather funny.
As far as gameplay is concerned, I find it very enriching and fun. (and enough op lol)

[BlackCoMerc]

Two years.

For an underwhelming, poorly presented story with nonsensical pacing, gimmicky, frustrating game play and tired tropes of saw it coming betrayal...

...to introduce a character almost no one wanted, whose every game play facet is strictly subpar to the Warframe play...

Not only do I mostly not like Operators. I wonder who greenlit this to begin with. (Probably it was Nullifier Guy, the Archwing loving fish oil hoarder). Because, DE needs to stop letting them make decisions.

It took you two years and multiple revisions to introduce a second combat system that is worse in literally every way than the one YOU ALREADY HAD. How.is that a good use of time?

[BlackCoMerc]

2 hours ago, shoopypit said:

Meh. Pressing five should have toggled your abilities to a new set of 1-4 void based abilities that could be used by any frame. 

Now that would be fun

[(XBOX)Souluzion]

9 hours ago, Futurehero said:

So as of today I finished everything I proposed for myself to make my operator decent. 

-Both Vazarin tanking nodes unbound.

-6/10 Magus Vigor, which with the above takes my hp to 1000.

-Naramon movement speed.

-T2 amp with t1 scaffold.

-Slowing void blast from Zenurik

 

And with ALL of that, Operators aren't fun. I'm sorry they are just not. 

The story behind them is bad as doing a "fish out of water" plot 2+ years after the story has been under way just makes no sense.

Their gameplay is worse in EVERY WAY as compared to using a warframe.

Their powers are generic and not fun to use.

90% of the stuff focus allows you to do is also generic and not fun  to use. "Wow I can throw a firebal out of my hands. ....whilst I also have an  energy weapon strapped to it that deals x times the damage and has infinite ammo and procs impact on demand. "  <-- Like , who thought that would be a good idea lol ? :) :)

Amps are also underwhelming. Strapping a Wierding Device to your arm should be cool, but almost all of them have bad stats so once again, meh. Also, no Amp mods.

In fact, why can't my tenno just use a secondary? The Sortie defense targets have no problems wielding  an Euphona Prime, so why can't I ?

 

 

Tenno being just humans is terrible as well, as opposed to some sort of energy being, "Starcraft Archon" style god, because:

-The character customization sucks. Very limited ways to make my guy/girl look .

-No body customization, so after having 1k+ hp  I can't make my chick look buff in any way shape or form.

-Operator accessories have taken a backseat to warframe accesories, so if you don't like "cat ears", you're poop out of luck boyo....

 

I didn't want to post about this until I dipped my feet in focus to get a good enough idea. But now that I did, yeah ,no.  Operators suck.

They suck in every way they're supposed to contribute to the game, from the story to the gameplay. 

EDIT: It's like in Overwatch, if you would CHOOSE to play as Dva on foot, as opposed to the mech. Why would anyone want that?

 

There still a pretty new mechanic. I have a feeling that as more open world areas open up the more they will make operators useful. 

But this game is all about your Warframe. I find it hard that they would make operators good to the point we don't use are frames. Many hate the fact we have to use against eidolons as it is.

I like them and look at it as flavor and to now RP myself in the game.

[BlackCoMerc]

15 minutes ago, (Xbox One)IXx Troy xXI said:

There still a pretty new mechanic. I have a feeling that as more open world areas open up the more they will make operators useful. 

But this game is all about your Warframe. I find it hard that they would make operators good to the point we don't use are frames. Many hate the fact we have to use against eidolons as it is.

I like them and look at it as flavor and to now RP myself in the game.

If you aren't going to make your new combat system as good and as fun as your existing one...why make it? At all?

[shoopypit]

16 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

If you aren't going to make your new combat system as good and as fun as your existing one...why make it? At all?

The operator combat strikes me as something to compliment the pre existing Warframe combat. As it is now it doesn't feel like it compliments more than temporarily replaces it in bursts

[BlackCoMerc]

19 minutes ago, shoopypit said:

The operator combat strikes me as something to compliment the pre existing Warframe combat. As it is now it doesn't feel like it compliments more than temporarily replaces it in bursts

It only replaces where we are FORCED to use it. Because it's a subpar movement, damage and durability system. Why would we use it if we DIDNT have to? 

If you can't make it interesting and compelling...don't make it. At all.

[(XBOX)BigLithuanian]

1 minute ago, BlackCoMerc said:

It only replaces where we are FORCED to use it. Because it's a subpar movement, damage and durability system. Why would we use it if we DIDNT have to? 

If you can't make it interesting and compelling...don't make it. At all.

Agreed

[(XBOX)Souluzion]

1 hour ago, BlackCoMerc said:

If you aren't going to make your new combat system as good and as fun as your existing one...why make it? At all?

Again Flavor. Also something different. It took DE a few years to make frames as fun as they are now it might take sometime for operators. but for now i will view as some RP flavor and enjoy the new content for the frames

[Futurehero]

11 hours ago, Futurehero said:

 

So after bashing the current mechanics , I thought I'd try my hand at offering some suggestions for what I think operators should be like:

1)The lore aspect and gameplay aspect of Tenno should match no matter what . None of this "void demons with 250 hp that have to strip shields off kaiju with pew pew lasers"  nonsense.

So here are some variants:

-1) Operators are frail and weak, their powers revolve around their  warframes. Waking up from the second dream is treated as the enemy discovering said weakness. Their powers revolve around creative problem solving by way of puzzles, and exist to provide lore insight on the world as a "different voice". They don't fight, that's what warframes are for.

-2) Operators exist as a continuation of the power fantasy of warframes. They have extreme amounts of effect on gameplay, and are limited to end game content. From here , you can either do:

•  Tenno as disciplined child prodigies, stoic shaolin monk types.   No cracking jokes about how ugly grineer are, no vulnerable emo crap.  Lotus is not "space mom", she is the head of your Ninja clan, who sends you out on missions to maintain the balance of power. They are good at combat and exist as an alternative to warframe abilities. 
• Tenno are extremely powerful , but have little control over said power. Warframes exist as containment units. Gameplay would revolve around extremely powerful abilities offset by a time limit in which to use them , until you "lose control" and are forced back into the warframe. Think of someone like Tetsuo from Akira unleashing hell until his powers overtake him and turn him into a monster. For reference, this is the closest one to the existing Warframe lore. (So focus 1.0 , but vastly improved and tied into the narrative)

-3)Operators exist to complement Warframes.  They are needed for things Warframes do not excel at. What do Warframes not do well?   Talking, for one. Any kind of meaningful interaction to be honest. So they would exist as the game's "dialogue system" . An actual, branched dialogue system. Negotiating with people for different rewards. Getting meaningful info  , that kind of stuff. A "human" face and some empathy will solve problems that a Rhino will not , and will allow tenno to seek out their own goals without needing the Lotus to act as interpreter.

-4)The tenno's amazing power doesn't revolve around "void magic". It revolves around the one thing everyone in the  universe of Warframe is interested in..... Orokin Tech.Think about it: Captain Vor is interested in it, Alad V, Nef Anyo, even the infested are in on it.  Tenno can interact with and control Orokin tech in ways nobody can. That's their power. You can make all sorts of gameplay from that premise alone. Using your operator to bust into secret orokin vaults that block your warframes.  Finding artifacts in missions where others don't know where to look . Commanding ancient Orokin war machines.  In fact , THIS was the premise I originally thought they were going with after the War Within, before this Eidolon Dune crap.  As a bonus , this gives them some interesting parallels with their enemies, the Sentients.

 

Someone with more imagination than me could probably come up with way better alternatives, but yeah. This is just to show that there are other ways to do this stuff.

 

 

Edited January 9, 2018 by Futurehero

[Futurehero]

Lastly, I want to make a consolidated list of actual criticism, with less salt and less ranting and raving. 

Something that can actually be read coherently  and simply understood. So:

Opeartor gameplay sucks because:

-Operators are designed to be weak and vulnerable, so having them "tag team" with Warframes brings out their weakness even more.

-Their role has to be "forced" into the gameplay/combat, rather than as a natural extension. Example: "This guy takes no damage until you void dash through him". "This guy takes reduced damage till you strip it off him with your laser gun"  .  The Zenurik Energy regen  and the void dash that prompts enemies for finishers is the closest it gets to being good.

-"Amps" make no sense, and are essentially "Archwing Weapons" 2.0 . They're a weak alternative to an actual weapon that does NOTHING  a regular weapon can't (minus the above mentioned forced gameplay).   If a T1 amp is literally just an Arca Scisco with an Opticor alt fire, why not give me that?  Why can't I wield my Lex , which I already spent time improving? Is this to "roll back the power creep"  ?. Then why lock it behind so much grind? If all I need this laser gun for is to strip shields and un-resist Sentients, why have all these fire modes etc?

-Your void powers are essentially inferior versions of Warframe powers. Your blast is a weaker Banshee 1. Your dash is a weaker Rhino 1. Your void mode is the only remotely unique thing, and it's not used for stealth. It's used for toggling on/off while you pop enemies with your amp gun.    Even worse, since these powers are tied to button inputs instead of actual ability inputs, this hamstrings DE in the future if they ever decide to add more gameplay to the operator. Example: Melee is void blast, so actual hypothetical operator melee will need a more complex input.   

-Your operator's power derives from persistence and perseverance  rather than actual strength. You can kill any enemy since you yourself can't die. You can shoot an enemy forever since you never run out of ammo, you can be invisible almost forever since you have infinite recharging energy. These in themselves do very little, however.  In layman's terms, you are that weak Skeleton in the Graveyard in Dark souls, that deals little damage and is of little threat, but will re-spawn forever until his source is killed.

Or , in Warframe terms: You are Wukong with a Rage mod, armed with a level 1 Cycron, tried to run through Sortie 3 constantly spamming Defy. 

And without a significant investment in Focus, that's where you'll remain. That little skeleton in Dark souls.

Focus sucks because:

-It requires a massive investment of time for bonsues that are really not worth it. That Madurai Fireball in my OP is the posterboy example, but others sure exist.

-Even worse, it requires a lot of non operator gameplay to unlock operator bonuses.  Killing enemies with Spider Equinox makes it so your Tenno will eventually have more HP. Think about the logistics of that. What am I "focusing" on?

-Focus schools are poorly balanced so most people will rarely switch them out. Even moreso with the rigorous grind attached to it. Oh I can deal some percent extra physical damage? Oooorrr... I could have constantly recharging energy for the powers that actually kill .  Hmm.....

-Focus does not add anything actually new to gameplay. It's mostly effects/abilities that we ALREADY have. Disarm this. Reduce armor that. Damage for X electric.... How about, "you can now walk through walls".  "You can now dual wield primaries for a bit"  "You can transfer into Sentients and shoot their weapons" 

Opeartors turning out how they did sucks because:

-Their customization options are weak/underdeveloped compared to Warframes. When you give people a human character , they're gonna want to shape it to either look like them, or create an actual character to roleplay as.

-As "humans"  DE has their work cut out for them to animate, voice them as believable characters. (See ME: Andromeda for when this goes wrong)

-Their personalities are underdeveloped for any kind of roleplay. They're not silent so you can fill in the blanks, and what they DO say often doesn't match what you'd want them to say. IF this nerdy "roleplay" S#&amp;&#036; seems pointless, go to above point. Why give me a human with a voice if a faceless death-robot will slice enemies with no concerns to story?

-To continue the nerdy lore S#&amp;&#036;: How does Tenno society/culture function. They apparently have this huge, honor-focused culture, but I'm not buying it . Can you imagine these kids building something like the Duel Room in the Dojo to have honorable fights and hone their skills?  

 

Edited January 9, 2018 by Futurehero

[Thrymm]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)IXx Troy xXI said:

Again Flavor. Also something different. It took DE a few years to make frames as fun as they are now it might take sometime for operators. but for now i will view as some RP flavor and enjoy the new content for the frames

I'm pretty sure toilets taste different than my lunch did, but I'm not licking one to get a different flavor.  I'm not even interested in what that flavor might be.  Unfortunately, the comparison to the operator is direct.

No, it didn't take DE a few years to make frames fun.  It didn't take them a few years to make them not clunky, and it didn't take them a few years to give them a good flavor.  The reason the game even exists is because this cool stuff existed right from the start, the game was remarkably fluid, and without even a scrap of meaningful lore it was somehow immersive--probably because in their silence, we mentally became the actual operator for these machines, and the nerdiest, scrawniest geek playing this game is, frankly, more compelling and badass as a person than any of these meathead operators are.

The operator is not the cool stuff.  They are not a badass war machine, they are a little kid, and even their abilities with the new system are nothing---numbers mean little, they just don't "feel" the part.  They don't move fluidly and they don't have a ton of different flavor(adding different effects to the exact same move set for every operator.....really?).  Basically, everything that got learned over time got thrown out the window and the operator got made anyway.  It's junk.

The game doesn't continue because of the operator any more than it does because of archwing.  It continues in spite of these shortcomings, and because the original frames themselves display an ability for DE to create something that is actually special--we tolerate them in hopes that they'll actually find that magic in the failed items like they created in the original game.

[Naqel]

Operators were always a garbage idea. They got shoved down our throats, and we're not even able to skip their content.

What's even worse is that we get very little control over their behavior, so things like a trap I understand and bypassed as a player thousands of times will inexplicably be a problem to them for plot reasons.

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

I like their design and lore. They technically can be energy beings. Do a bit of digging on how Transferance works and the Chains of Harrow quest kind of touches on it. 

Gameplaywise I despise Tenno form. It doesn’t flow well and has absolutely no purpose on the majority of the game. They’re weak and not fun. I understand that if you dive into focus full blast they can be a little better, but hats still not enough for me. I play Warframe to play with Warframes. Not the Operators. However, even with my criticisms, they’re implementation into the story is great. I liked The War Within. I liked the ending of Chains if Harrow. I do not like Eidolon hunting though. 

[(XBOX)Souluzion]

12 minutes ago, Thrymm said:

I'm pretty sure toilets taste different than my lunch did, but I'm not licking one to get a different flavor.  I'm not even interested in what that flavor might be.  Unfortunately, the comparison to the operator is direct.

No, it didn't take DE a few years to make frames fun.  It didn't take them a few years to make them not clunky, and it didn't take them a few years to give them a good flavor.  The reason the game even exists is because this cool stuff existed right from the start, the game was remarkably fluid, and without even a scrap of meaningful lore it was somehow immersive--probably because in their silence, we mentally became the actual operator for these machines, and the nerdiest, scrawniest geek playing this game is, frankly, more compelling and badass as a person than any of these meathead operators are.

The operator is not the cool stuff.  They are not a badass war machine, they are a little kid, and even their abilities with the new system are nothing---numbers mean little, they just don't "feel" the part.  They don't move fluidly and they don't have a ton of different flavor(adding different effects to the exact same move set for every operator.....really?).  Basically, everything that got learned over time got thrown out the window and the operator got made anyway.  It's junk.

The game doesn't continue because of the operator any more than it does because of archwing.  It continues in spite of these shortcomings, and because the original frames themselves display an ability for DE to create something that is actually special--we tolerate them in hopes that they'll actually find that magic in the failed items like they created in the original game.

I probably shouldn't respond but i will. First off your comparison to toilets vs Lunch makes no sense. A non food item vs food ? Also do i have to explain what flavor means in the context i used it? Maybe but i won't.

Frames weren't fun or warframe as a whole was not as fun for a lot of us a few years ago. this point is more how I feel and some people i've talked to. So where your view of it being fun is my view of operators now.

Now I want them to be better sure. More fluid sure. But it makes sense. Operators just woke up so they been relying on there minds. Why all of a sudden would they be these bad asses? that's what the frames are for. 

Take a look at Guyver which DE is a fan of. The main character was a whiny boy to start with and his character built over time. So give DE time to find out where these operators will go. Let them tell the story of there game. I'm more interested in the idea there will be a reason are operators will become stronger. I want a lead up not a patch that's says your operator can now do what your warframe can enjoy please.

[Lokime]

11 hours ago, Calumniis said:

>they suck
>lists these things

4 good things you listed yourself. Operators also can deal pretty darn good damage aswell and the way-bound passives make them pretty good.

please be a troll or just sarcastic.
 

to OP:

I do like Operators. I like them alot actually since Focus 2.0 even more. Although you are correct - i would like more customization options. Or hairs that aren't 80% shaved.

You got me :D

Focus atm is pretty good, but I think there's still room for improvement. Making Void Damage significant for example, right now it procs a mini bullet attractor. It would be amazing if void damage ignores shields and armor completely.

Edited January 9, 2018 by Lokime
notice me DE senpai

[Spectre-8]

I really don't like using the operator , but I have to so I can regen some energy.

At this point I look at it as the necessary evil . meaning it's disrupting my warframe gameplay but it has its benefits .

[Thrymm]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)IXx Troy xXI said:

I probably shouldn't respond but i will. First off your comparison to toilets vs Lunch makes no sense. A non food item vs food ? Also do i have to explain what flavor means in the context i used it? Maybe but i won't.

Frames weren't fun or warframe as a whole was not as fun for a lot of us a few years ago. this point is more how I feel and some people i've talked to. So where your view of it being fun is my view of operators now.

Now I want them to be better sure. More fluid sure. But it makes sense. Operators just woke up so they been relying on there minds. Why all of a sudden would they be these bad asses? that's what the frames are for. 

Take a look at Guyver which DE is a fan of. The main character was a whiny boy to start with and his character built over time. So give DE time to find out where these operators will go. Let them tell the story of there game. I'm more interested in the idea there will be a reason are operators will become stronger. I want a lead up not a patch that's says your operator can now do what your warframe can enjoy please.

You're probably right, you shouldn't have, because to actually read my analogy and not understand that I clearly DO understand the concept of flavor is kind of a bad starting point.

I know exactly what you mean by flavor.  By all means, substitute the food item with "anything else good that you feel like that is a good thing", then compare it to toilets, or "any other item that can be recognized as bad".  Good=not operator.  Bad=Operator.  Not rocket science.

I disagree with your assertion that the frames weren't fun in the beginning.  I guess that's just a matter of opinion. I was there and enjoyed them immensely, and continue to enjoy them.  Most of my gameplay happens on frames that existed before the Second Dream.  I would say, though, that this has precisely zero to do with the operator, a completely seperate and unrelated entity in regards to the frames themselves, from a gameplay perspective.

Do I want them to be better as well?  Of course I do.  I want them to offer better continuity, better gameplay, better appearance, better everything.  There is literally not one piece of the operator that I believe should remain unchanged.  They clearly aren't going away, making them better is the only real option.  As for WHY they should be badass...., well:

By the time my operator "woke up", he had well over a million kills, completely disregarding anything he'd remember from his past(which we are led to believe is pretty much nothing).  He'd mastered dozens of weapons as was familiar with parkouring off of ceilings, running on walls, dual wielding anything that'd fit in both hands, etc.  And he did it all without saying a single word, by his own hand, not commands to an army.  Before he woke up into a dopey whiney kid, he ALREADY had an extensive backstory, created through hundreds of missions and several events that changed the game world.  He'd already killed every boss that was in the game at the time(which is nearly every boss currently in the game).  He handled every bit of this with the mentality required when you drop out of an air duct with the intention of killing every single sign of life on an enemy galleon, or blowing up their reactor, or whatever decidedly badass thing he was going to do that particular day.

The operator lore essentially rendered all of this moot.  Instead of the kind of honed warrior that can mentally handle the concept of intentionally modifying his weaponry to cut enemies in half or leave dozens as a time as kibble or melted blobs on the floor just as he had done all along(read:the delicious chocolate cake of the gaming world),  we got.....the operator with his decidedly whiney PG flavor(read: the toilet of the gaming world, which as you astutely noticed, isn't even a delicious food to compare cake to).

No, it has nothing to do with their idiotic abilities or even wanting them to "be able to do what the warframes do".  It has far more to do with what they look like coming out of the warframes chest.  What they choose to carry as their supplemental weapon(apparently, mines using a pewpew baseball mitt).  How they walk.  How they talk.  How they interject their not at all warframe soldierlike, oblivious to their own carnage personality into their stories, etc. 

And it's been quite long enough, frankly.  In the real world little boys get turned into grizzled Marines at quadruple the rate that my online solo genocide machine finds the intestinal fortitude to not whine about a minor leg wound.  At this pace it'll take him a decade to grow into what he actually is, and I can take a pass on that pace.

[zehne]

Maybe late to the party but...

I go into an alert, which means that usually the level of enemies is waaaaay beneath anything representing a challenge.  So I go into operator mode and play the mission mainly like that.  It makes boring alerts interesting.

Doing a spy vault, want to zerg it but don't want to trigger alarms(and no I don't play stealth frames), go into operator mode and stealth at will.

Running to extract, several straightaways, go into operator and make The Flash envious.

Just because you can't one shot sortie mobs doesn't mean operators are useless and have no place.  I find them extremely useful especially after unlocking a few cross school nodes.

[Gamma745]

2 hours ago, Thrymm said:

  Good=not operator.  Bad=Operator.  Not rocket science.

You do know that is just your subjective opinion, right?

[Klavinmour]

16 hours ago, Mister-God said:

Energy isn't really a limiting resource with arcane energize.. Plus:

I don't really consider activating the focus passive 'using' the operator... Sure it's 'using' the operator for a split second but there's not really any gameplay involved. I do like the focus passive quite a lot... I just don't like using operators.

Resources, Credits and EXP are useless if you've played enough of the game so that bonus is negligable.

And doing hours of survival is kinda fun, but it's still not very rewarding.. primed parts are worthless and; as mentioned above, resources, credits and xp are worthless.

Roughly 1000 Orokin Cells, Neurodes and Neural Sensors.
I don't find resources useless.

EXP is never useless either, you're likely to always be Formaing a weapon or Frame, plus the EXP bonuses are great for Focus Farming if you hate doing specific tasks for large amounts of Focus.
Naramon Affinity Spike STACKS with endless EXP boost, making Focus farm even better for standard play.

[StabbyTentacles]

17 hours ago, Klavinmour said:

Everyone I've talked to who love the Tenno/Opperators are vets like me who've been playing since Invite Only Beta.

It's a matter of a breath of fresh air, on top of giving greater build diversity.

Your group of four players have had enough of taking turns to play Trinity?
Fine one of you or all of you can use Zenurik/Vazarin.

You want to purely focus on melee play, but it's difficult in Defense missions because the time between waves kills your Combo Counter?
Naramon solves that, allowing you to keep your Combo Counter by it now decaying slowly rather then disappearing all at once.
This is good in other mission types too, when enemy scarcity comes into play.

There is plenty of reason to go for multiple hours on survival missions, each 5 minutes you gain a stacking buff for Resources, Credits and EXP.
The longer you go the better.
Not to mention things don't really start getting fun until about an hour into Axi Survival for a lot of people.

Am a vet.

In absolutely no way do I like the operator.

It is an abomination.

To your point as to vets who have ground this game into their lives to such a degree that anything is praiseworthy, well, that's pretty self explanatory, self evident.

I break it down like this: operator's are to warframe, as having a small gun inside your larger more dynamic, enjoyable gun. Yes you now have 2x guns instead of 1... But why the fu do you need it. You want to add more powers to the game? Eaah add more powers to WARFRAMES.

The point is best explained by Skillup here. (Goto 16.19 to get to the operator contention.)

At the very least allow players who are not fans of operators the option to give them a much needed pass.

As the game stands I can't really play it anymore.

And with every deeper push into operatorframe, well the game becomes more awful.

 

[NaoEthelia]

8 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

It only replaces where we are FORCED to use it. Because it's a subpar movement, damage and durability system. Why would we use it if we DIDNT have to? 

have fun dying to level 2000 eximuses and nullies while i revive my teammate in void mode

sorry bud, but like it or not, operators are already part of the endgame meta

you can try to revive teammates in your warframe (like the old ways) but its more probable that youll become a flying pizza and die

and did i mention: this is not shoved down your throat?

Edited January 10, 2018 by NaoEthelia

[(XBOX)Mechanomaly]

13 hours ago, Autongnosis said:

EDIT: also i always found weird that Operators cannot accrue Focus by exp. I mean, they really should. 

You can put Focus Lenses on Amps.

[NaoEthelia]

2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)Juniormech777 said:

You can put Focus Lenses on Amps.

Weirdly, not at 100% efficiency. Last I tested, it was about 33% efficiency. I'm assuming the other 33% goes to the operator itself and the last 33% is reserved for another amp (melee?) equipment.

Edited January 10, 2018 by NaoEthelia