Does anyone here actually like the Operator?

[Airwolfen]

6 minutes ago, random__noob said:

Uhm I dont think you understand what he meant. When you activate operator mode, you stop controlling your warframe for the duration of the operator gameplay. Its kinda absolutely  factual.

At least thats how I understood it.

I mean the second part with "Operator mechanic is intrusive and forces Warframes out of their own game" part. Looking as that operator needed content was ADDED to the game instead of replacing parts of the game you cant say that by fact operators are intruding on Warframe territory nor are Warframes being forced aside. 

[XManZombes]

All i want is to hand shake as operator.

[random__noob]

10 minutes ago, Airwolfen said:

I mean the second part with "Operator mechanic is intrusive and forces Warframes out of their own game" part. Looking as that operator needed content was ADDED to the game instead of replacing parts of the game you cant say that by fact operators are intruding on Warframe territory nor are Warframes being forced aside. 

Ah okay, that makes more sense. In a way, the Operator Mechanic IS intrusive though, since parts of the game are only accessible by using operator mode. Quills, Tetralist hunts, Zenurik energy regen. Sure you can play the game without these features, but you cant claim you can play the WHOLE game without being interrupted by operator sequences.

Some people wont even call that an interruption. However I think his intent is clearly that he would rather not play as an operator ever, and sometimes feels he has to.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

42 minutes ago, Airwolfen said:

That's still an opinion, not a fact. NOTHING a Warframe COULD do has been taken away. Its only that way because you feel it is so. Stating it as if its a fact does not change that in any way.

33 minutes ago, random__noob said:

Uhm I dont think you understand what he meant. When you activate operator mode, you stop controlling your warframe for the duration of the operator gameplay. Its kinda absolutely  factual.

At least thats how I understood it.

Exactly.

16 minutes ago, Airwolfen said:

I mean the second part with "Operator mechanic is intrusive and forces Warframes out of their own game" part. Looking as that operator needed content was ADDED to the game instead of replacing parts of the game you cant say that by fact operators are intruding on Warframe territory nor are Warframes being forced aside. 

 This is so grasping at straws, dude. Seriously. There is no Operator territory unless it's enforced like in Chains of Harrow. Everything present in the game is WARFRAME. PoE with all its flaws is still just a huge tile with regular enemies and regular missions, built based on regular Warframe-exclusive mechanics. With only exception being the Teralyst. And even the Teralyst only requires Operators because DE said so. There's no other reason why you couldn't just shoot the damn thing with your regular weapons apart from DE putting an invincibility phase on it, forcing you into the operator mode. You might say that Teralysts don't drop anything except AMP resources - that's the thing, they were made useless to justify the existence of Operators.

Content that could have been made for Warframes got turned into an Operator-exclusive.

 This is the very definition of pushing titular combat platform out of its own game.

Edited January 10, 2018 by AperoBeltaTwo

[AperoBeltaTwo]

6 minutes ago, random__noob said:

Ah okay, that makes more sense. In a way, the Operator Mechanic IS intrusive though, since parts of the game are only accessible by using operator mode. Quills, Tetralist hunts, Zenurik energy regen. Sure you can play the game without these features, but you cant claim you can play the WHOLE game without being interrupted by operator sequences.

Some people wont even call that an interruption. However I think his intent is clearly that he would rather not play as an operator ever, and sometimes feels he has to.

No, it doesn't make "more sense".
*points at the previous post*

Edited January 10, 2018 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Snib]

4 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

PoE with all its flaws is still just a huge tile with regular enemies and regular missions, built based on regular Warframe-exclusive mechanics. 

Funny example, since I use a lot of Archwing in PoE (you know, the thing people complained about before operators), and then there's people mining and fishing there. PoE is as non-regular Warframe-exclusive as it gets.

Whatever the next feature after operators, a certain type of player will whine about that as well. Gets old tbh.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Snib

[AperoBeltaTwo]

4 minutes ago, Snib said:

Funny example since I use a lot of Archwing in PoE (you know, the thing people complained about before operators), and then there's people mining and fishing there. PoE is as non-regular Warframe-exclusive as it gets.

 Mining and fishing is like scanning plants on various tilesets. It's a secondary activity that still uses Warframes to move around. And archwing... when was the last time you looked at your archwing? What do you see hanging just in the middle of it? 

Edit: Secondary activities only hurt when they are enforced - that's why I personally dislike fishing and mining. Since, again, PoE content is locked behind those mandatory side activities. But that's a whole another topic.

Edited January 10, 2018 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Snib]

4 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Mining and fishing is like scanning plants on various tilesets. It's a secondary activity that still uses Warframes to move around. And archwing... when was the last time you looked at your archwing? What do you see hanging just in the middle of it? 

Who's doing the strawman now? The times that the thing hanging in between those wings mattered is long gone, it's just decoration for lore reasons. Although in PoE we get to use its weapons (gone my dreams of wiping the map with a Grattler).

Edited January 10, 2018 by Snib

[Airwolfen]

17 minutes ago, Snib said:

Funny example, since I use a lot of Archwing in PoE (you know, the thing people complained about before operators), and then there's people mining and fishing there. PoE is as non-regular Warframe-exclusive as it gets.

Whatever the next feature after operators, a certain type of player will whine about that as well. Gets old tbh.

"Do I have to go out and farm these damned 'mods' now!?" 

Bit of the old U7 flair

Edited January 10, 2018 by Airwolfen

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 minute ago, Snib said:

Who's doing the strawman now? The times that the thing hanging in between those wings mattered is long gone, it's just decoration for lore reasons.

Archwing is not a mandatory part of PoE. You can easily move around without it.

And my point still stands, Archwing with all its detachment from the core gameplay mechanics is still about Warframes. 

[Snib]

Just now, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Archwing is not a mandatory part of PoE. You can easily move around without it.

And my point still stands, Archwing with all its detachment from the core gameplay mechanics is still about Warframes. 

But neither is the operator, so what's your point? Some content is only accessible via Archwing, some content is only accessible via Operator, the majority of content is accessible via Warframes. So really, what's your point?

PS: It's a shame you can't also use colours in your responses, it would make them seem even more valid.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

37 minutes ago, Snib said:

But neither is the operator, so what's your point?

 Fine, I admit, Archwings are also a secondary mechanic that has nothing to do with the core gameplay. It stood on its own enough and was disjointed enough from the core gameplay expierience so not to compete with the primary gameplay, but if you absolutely need to use it as a final crutch in this conversation, I have no other choice but to be perfectly blunt about this one as well.
 FIne, Archwing was Operator 0.5 - the first of the disjointed Warframe mechanics that had nothing to do with the core gameplay content. Thankfully it didn't lock (almost) anything Warframe-related behind Archwing gameplay - not mods, nor enemies or tilesets. It was a marvelous waste of development resources, that barely proved to be any useful. But it was what it was, the damage didn't spread too far.
 But in case of Operators, unfortunately, DE decided to build their biggest update yet around this 'another secondary combat platform' - this time ruining the entire update.
 If you want to compare Operators to Archwings so badly, please, do. But Operators are much more forceful and much more enforced. As well as lock much more content that is often exclusively Warframe-oriented (I'm talking about Focus, for example. It could have been completely different if not for the way Operators function).

PS: How do you like them colours?

37 minutes ago, Snib said:

PS: It's a shame you can't also use colours in your responses, it would make them seem even more valid.

Edited January 10, 2018 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Fallen_Echo]

7 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 Fine, I admit, Archwings are also a secondary mechanic that has nothing to do with the core gameplay. It stood on its own enough and was disjointed enough from the core gameplay expierience so not to compete with the primary gameplay, but if you absolutely need to use it as a final crutch in this conversation, I have no other choice but to be perfectly blunt about this one as well.
 FIne, Archwing was Operator 0.5 - the first of the disjointed Warframe mechanics that had nothing to do with the core gameplay content. Thankfully it didn't lock (almost) anything Warframe-related behind Archwing gameplay - not mods, nor enemies or tilesets. It was a marvelous waste of development resources, that barely proved to be any useful. But it was what it was, the damage didn't spread too far.
 But in case of Operators, unfortunately, DE decided to build their biggest update yet around this 'another secondary combat platform' - this time ruining the entire update.
 If you want to compare Operators to Archwings so badly, please, do. But Operators are much more forceful and much more enforced. As well as lock much more content that is often exclusively Warframe-oriented (I'm talking about Focus, for example. It could have been completely different if not for the way Operators function).

PS: How do you like them colours?

Im sure he will have another reaponse here claiming hes right and you are wrong. Reading throught his comment it feels like you are trying to talk sense into a brickwall, he shakes off legit complaints and observations just so he can try to grab another slight flaw in your arguments. Soon he will critize your grammar.

 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 minute ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Im sure he will have another reaponse here claiming hes right and you are wrong. Reading throught his comment it feels like you are trying to talk sense into a brickwall, he shakes off legit complaints and observations just so he can try to grab another slight flaw in your arguments. Soon he will critize your grammar.

Grammar? Oh, no! I'm not a native English speaker... That would be brutal.

[(XBOX)BigLithuanian]

14 hours ago, (Xbox One)Ivan of Jupiter said:

I like their design and lore. They technically can be energy beings. Do a bit of digging on how Transferance works and the Chains of Harrow quest kind of touches on it. 

Gameplaywise I despise Tenno form. It doesn’t flow well and has absolutely no purpose on the majority of the game. They’re weak and not fun. I understand that if you dive into focus full blast they can be a little better, but hats still not enough for me. I play Warframe to play with Warframes. Not the Operators. However, even with my criticisms, they’re implementation into the story is great. I liked The War Within. I liked the ending of Chains if Harrow. I do not like Eidolon hunting though. 

I agree on every level of what you said. Their design and customization could be better but i like their lore. Though I agree with you on Eidolon Hunting(it makes an otherwise fun experience even though it is required to grind(but it was fun) to a mindless, repetitive, incredibly boring and inevitably pointless grind(and even worse that is the only way to make your operator as powerful as they were).

Edited January 10, 2018 by (XB1)BigLithuanian

[Snib]

33 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

PS: How do you like them colours?

Nice work, you got me fully convinced now. :D

[Sibernetika]

I get the very distinct feeling here majority of the people here that is against the operator is the same people that is also against arcwing and nulifiers and everything else that forces them to make changes in their play style (insert learn to adept meme here) 

[AperoBeltaTwo]

27 minutes ago, (Xbox One)BigLithuanian said:

but i like their lore.

 Operators' lore could have been expressed in a million other ways, including a decent mechanical way instead of what we have right now. People say "I like Operators' lore and the quests", but lore didn't require Operator mechanics to be this atrocious. Lore could have been written in any way, it's just words.
 Lore should never come at the expense of decent gameplay mechanics. 

 And lore is just a bunch of short one hour-long quests, while mechanics stay for hundreds, thousands of hours. Lore cannot possibly excuse poor game design.

Edited January 10, 2018 by AperoBeltaTwo

[AperoBeltaTwo]

7 minutes ago, Sibernetika said:

I get the very distinct feeling here majority of the people here that is against the operator is the same people that is also against arcwing and nulifiers and everything else that forces them to make changes in their play style (insert learn to adept meme here) 

Don't generalize people, please. I'm against Operators because it's a lousy mechanic that, the way it is right now, cripples the entire development process of the game.

Edited January 10, 2018 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Sibernetika]

Cripples? For several years there was nothing new only DE trying to make new frames and fixing balancing issues then the community found new ways to exploit and DE had to find ways to fix yet again.. Arcwing came and the community again went nooooo that was also apparently crippling the games development.. Finally there is something new to further the games development and more ways to experience the game.. And suddenly its again crippling the games development.. By all means DE can go and remove arcwing and the operator and the plains, return draco to former status and we return to the buff and nerf dance we know all to well.. Operator is new, give it time to spread its wings like arcwing and the pvp system has.. It can only get better 

[(XBOX)BigLithuanian]

27 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 Operators' lore could have been expressed in a million other ways, including a decent mechanical way instead of what we have right now. People say "I like Operators' lore and the quests", but lore didn't require Operator mechanics to be this atrocious. Lore could have been written in any way, it's just words.
 Lore should never come at the expense of decent gameplay mechanics. 

 And lore is just a bunch of short one hour-long quests, while mechanics stay for hundreds, thousands of hours. Lore cannot possibly excuse poor game design.

I hate the way operators were implemented in game and the story could be much better but I think combat mechanics are a more important thing to focus on

Edited January 10, 2018 by (XB1)BigLithuanian

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

They're not perfect, but I enjoy using them. Lately I find more and more use for them woven into my normal combat.

Their void damage is not resisted by any enemy type, so I kill most sortie level enemies easily with my amps as long as they aren't heavily armored. Even then, I can kill most t5 bounty enemies (even armored ones) with my amp. I've gilded and maxed every amp, and my final version i settled with is Shwaak Pencha Juttni. I named it Cahaya Kematian, which means Death Light. 

Void Dash is surprisingly useful on most focus paths. For Naramon I do use Executing Dash and Surging Dash to open groups of enemies to finishers (amazing ability to have access to no matter the frame), very helpful for the team as well if they are using melee. Zenurik, I use Energizing Dash (obviously) but not the Lighting Dash. Any flat damage related modification to Operator powers is mostly a waste of points but the standard use is amazing crowd control to ragdoll enemies when you're in a bind. The other trees modify it to reduce enemy damage/armor, or make allies invulnerable and heal them, or more flat damage (bleh).

Void blast I don't use as much, but once I max out my Naramon Blast nodes I definitely plan to (PS4 hasn't gotten Focus 2.5 update yet to reduce cost - I'm looking at you @DE). Confusing and Disarming enemies no matter what frame you're on is useful. The other trees use it to restore ally shields, do more damage, cause bullet attractor, and slow and stun enemies. 

For me, the biggest benefit of Operators is the default Void Mode. Invisibility and Invulnerability on demand is insanely useful. I exclusively revive allies as my operator in void mode since enemies won't be killing you. I use it to hack consoles to avoid being attacked. I use it to capture targets. I use it to walk through electricity traps, and grineer and corpus energy doors. The Focus node benefits are useful utility, but unfortunately the additional cost per second makes them somewhat prohibitive.

Aside from their active abilities, there are many passive effects that make them useful. I'm not referring to the way-bounds that are used to make the Operator themselves better. I'm referring to the inherent effects of moving from your Warframe to your Operator. As long as you do not have an ability toggled, your Warframe is untargetable and invulnerable while you're in your Operator mode, which allows you do avoid otherwise unavoidable damage situations like a Bombard missile that you only noticed last second, or when you have fire or toxic procs. You can swap to your Operator and wait out the proc duration to keep your frame safe. You're capable of moving the frame safely to other locations quickly (I use Nyx with her Assimilate augment, and while killing enemies in my bubble I can go to Operator and void dash across the screen then pull my Nyx, still in her bubble, to the new location and continue combat). There's also useful Magus arcanes that can benefit the frame. I use Magus Nourish so for every second in my Operator my Frame is actually restoring health. I also have Magus Replenish so Void Dashing restores my Operators health, so it's a nice cycle to keep me flowing constantly with less downtime overall. Not to mention they are essential to Eidolon capturing, and are very useful in LoR.

They are NOT perfect, but they are no where near the state they were in at their release, and they are no where as bad as people say they are.

 

Edited January 10, 2018 by (PS4)Riko_113

[(XBOX)BigLithuanian]

19 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

I've gilded and maxed every amp.

19 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

use Magus Nourish so for every second in my Operator my Frame is actually restoring health. I also have Magus Replenish so Void Dashing restores my Operators health, so it's a nice cycle to keep me flowing constantly with less downtime overall.

 

I still haven't gilded my first Amp because getting there is so boring that I can't even bear playing the game. Maybe that's why you enjoy the operators. No offense but apparently you enjoy the most mindless grind I've ever seen in a game. I absolutely hate mindless grinding and since it ridiculously boring to kill Eidolons every day on Warframe and it isn't even worth it because my operator is already good for what I need her for.

Warframe and DE avoided stuff like that but now they accept it and that it why I am currently not playing Warframe and hate PoE. It was never like this before, before the grind was fun even when I was grinding for focus in focus 1.0 and it was worth it but now it isn't because my operator will ALWAYS pale in comparison to my Warframe. The only thing i use my operator for is to shoot sentients to wipe their damage resistance.

Edited January 10, 2018 by (XB1)BigLithuanian

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

40 minutes ago, (Xbox One)BigLithuanian said:

Maybe that's why you enjoy the operators. No offense but apparently you enjoy the most mindless grind I've ever seen in a game.

Warframe and DE avoided stuff like that but now they accept it and that it why I am currently not playing Warframe and hate PoE.

I'm sorry, I'm going to have to assume that you are new to the game, or are not aware that you are required to gild every amp prism in order to receive mastery exp for it. Ungilded amps and zaw weapons do not provide mastery experience. I'm MR 24 and have 1400 hours of gameplay over the years, so I've done almost EVERY grind in this game. It doesn't mean that it was meaningless. Also, I never said I enjoyed the grind. I said i enjoy what I got out of it. Don't change my words to try to fake a valid point.

Edited January 10, 2018 by (PS4)Riko_113

[(PSN)Raygun_X_]

On 1/9/2018 at 4:04 AM, Futurehero said:

So as of today I finished everything I proposed for myself to make my operator decent. 

-Both Vazarin tanking nodes unbound.

-6/10 Magus Vigor, which with the above takes my hp to 1000.

-Naramon movement speed.

-T2 amp with t1 scaffold.

-Slowing void blast from Zenurik

 

And with ALL of that, Operators aren't fun. I'm sorry they are just not. 

The story behind them is bad as doing a "fish out of water" plot 2+ years after the story has been under way just makes no sense.

Their gameplay is worse in EVERY WAY as compared to using a warframe.

Their powers are generic and not fun to use.

90% of the stuff focus allows you to do is also generic and not fun  to use. "Wow I can throw a firebal out of my hands. ....whilst I also have an  energy weapon strapped to it that deals x times the damage and has infinite ammo and procs impact on demand. "  <-- Like , who thought that would be a good idea lol ? :) :)

Amps are also underwhelming. Strapping a Wierding Device to your arm should be cool, but almost all of them have bad stats so once again, meh. Also, no Amp mods.

In fact, why can't my tenno just use a secondary? The Sortie defense targets have no problems wielding  an Euphona Prime, so why can't I ?

 

 

Tenno being just humans is terrible as well, as opposed to some sort of energy being, "Starcraft Archon" style god, because:

-The character customization sucks. Very limited ways to make my guy/girl look .

-No body customization, so after having 1k+ hp  I can't make my chick look buff in any way shape or form.

-Operator accessories have taken a backseat to warframe accesories, so if you don't like "cat ears", you're poop out of luck boyo....

 

I didn't want to post about this until I dipped my feet in focus to get a good enough idea. But now that I did, yeah ,no.  Operators suck.

They suck in every way they're supposed to contribute to the game, from the story to the gameplay. 

EDIT: It's like in Overwatch, if you would CHOOSE to play as Dva on foot, as opposed to the mech. Why would anyone want that?

 

I absolutely love my operator... 

Gives power...

makes me invisable...

Heals me completely (10 elevate arcanes) bounce in and out a few times... 

Allows for free fast travel...

It adds all that and more to any frame.. What's not to love?