Mesa Deluxe Skin

[SaferSaviour]

12 hours ago, Cubewano said:

Why do you assume it's better for me? I could very well like recent designs. This isn't about my singular interest, or anyone's for the matter, it's about the broader level of consumers supporting this game, and how to best accommodate as many as they can. It doesn't matter whether I like or dislike the direction they are going, I'm a single person in a crowd of many, it's about the whole and how to best appeal to the many outside just you or me. Whether I like the direction or not, It would be naive to say the direction being taken is a benefit for the consumers as a whole, and in turn, it would be rather selfish to say the direction should continue purely because it benefits me over that whole. 

Understand I have liked some recent deluxes, even one that has been fairly dissented upon, but that doesn't mean I'd say to keep it if it could be traded for a more popular option, even against my benefit, because it wouldn't be right of me to argue I deserve something to benefit myself at the cost of a larger number being left out. 

Forgive my assumptions on your part.

However, there is no way to tell whether DE's design direction is better or worse for consumers without first seeing some numbers. We don't know whether there's been a drop off in purchases, whether they've increased, or whether there's little difference. Outside of that, there's really no way to tell whether the change in design direction is paying off.

I will say that prior to IgnisDei's termination, I did not view deluxe skins as much more than IgnisDei's designs. I did not complain about the direction because the direction seemed ironclad and unlikely to change. This doesn't mean I liked every design he put out. Some, I love, but there are others I see in game that still make me cringe a little. Even so, I did not complain about the designs I disliked as there was no point to doing so.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

8 hours ago, Xzorn said:

Gunslinger

Is also a synonym for gunfighter. There are many gunfighters throughout with world and history both in fiction and non fiction. Some used revolvers, some used flintlocks some used laser blasters. I think DE is trying to appeal to another group of fans. 

That said, it's different. It's an early style of gunslinger or gunfighter. And that's ok with me. Still not a fan of the hat, like I said it should be a more elaborate 3 point hat. But different strokes for different folks, it's probably why they designed her this way.

Edited January 22, 2018 by (XB1)RDeschain82

[Cubewano]

4 minutes ago, SaferSaviour said:

Forgive my assumptions on your part.

However, there is no way to tell whether DE's design direction is better or worse for consumers without first seeing some numbers. We don't know whether there's been a drop off in purchases, whether they've increased, or whether there's little difference. Outside of that, there's really no way to tell whether the change in design direction is paying off.

I will say that prior to IgnisDei's termination, I did not view deluxe skins as much more than IgnisDei's designs. I did not complain about the direction because the direction seemed ironclad and unlikely to change. This doesn't mean I liked every design he put out. Some, I love, but there are others I see in game that still make me cringe a little. Even so, I did not complain about the designs I disliked as there was no point to doing so.

Yes without flat stats there is no way to with absolute certainty to tell if this is truly negative trend, but forgoing blind faith any level of basic observation would tell you it very likely is a negative trend. Just because we don't have all the data doesn't mean we should ignore that which we have. It'd be nice to believe these designs are doing better or equal to past designs, people being disappointed isn't a positive thing, but if all signs point the contrary you can only really assume that's probably how it is. Given DE's stubborn nature I don't imagine if it was a downward decline DE would show us, or furthermore adapt as a responsive since it would be similar to acknowledging they were wrong. It's an unhealthy habit we need to break them of. 

As for how you handle your disapproval towards something that's really up to you, if you don't feel you can have an influence then that's your decision, others feel they can, others feel it is at least worth the effort. There are plenty of people of each sort.

[Rekkou]

2 hours ago, -Temp0- said:

-snipe-

I'm done with this thread, i've stated enough points and arguments for anyone to consider. And you're only repeating yourself harder there, so reply to that basically have been said on my previous reply

And just pointing out that you need to check your setting, it changes my name to some Russian letter, people won't get notification if the name on the reply got changed.

[Heatnix.]

It's not an assault on my eyes like Ember's, but it's pretty... bland. It's not bad but it makes no attempts at pushing the envelope or even adhere to a theme or nothing. It's a shame. Feels like they've lost the touch for deluxe skins.

[(XBOX)Solargeo]

On 1/19/2018 at 1:36 PM, Tora.Prime said:

Acording to the critiques the skin looks like Ivara, Zephyr and Octavia. 3 warframes without any similitude
This is why i can't understand to people, I only see mesa in that skin

Well blame me thinking of a Maestro I think the name is? A person who controls an Orchestra .

[Xaranoth]

I think the problem most people who aren’t huge fans of this skin have is that it doesn’t look like a deluxe skin, it looks like another normal warframe. All the vanilla warframes have a certain vibe to them; I’m not quite sure how to describe it, but it’s something that you can see and immediately recognize as coming from warframe, as opposed to some other sci-fi game (similarly, the prime skins all have their unique orokin style). And the deluxe skins (in general) have a different, “outside” look to them, but this particular skin doesn’t. I think a lot of what it is, is that the last few deluxe skins have been designed in-house. To get those really eye-catching “exotic” deluxe skins that we’re used to, I really think that DE needs to contract the design concept to an outside, independent artist again. Ignus’ designs were amazing because they were different. He was an outside source that brought fresh, original concepts. Not to say that the work the DE artists do is bad, but for the deluxe skins I think we’re all looking for something different, something to spice up the normal aesthetic style we're used to seeing on our screens.

Edit: think Oberon (butterfly-goat spirit protector of the forest), Frost (buff yak herder of the alps), Chroma (oriental dragon), Mag, Saryn (poisonous flower). Even banshee, minus the awful color mapping (“yeah, having the whole legs be one solid color is fine. Yeah, having the dress be basically another solid color is fine” /s). They’re all different from the normal aesthetic style we’re used to seeing on frames. Even nova’s deluxe is different at least, regardless of whether you liked it or not. But this Mesa skin just feels like another normal skin. It doesn’t have that “exoticness” to it.

Edited January 22, 2018 by Xaranoth

[SaferSaviour]

 

28 minutes ago, Xaranoth said:

I think the problem most people who aren’t huge fans of this skin have is that it doesn’t look like a deluxe skin, it looks like another normal warframe. All the vanilla warframes have a certain vibe to them; I’m not quite sure how to describe it, but it’s something that you can see and immediately recognize as coming from warframe, as opposed to some other sci-fi game (similarly, the prime skins all have their unique orokin style). And the deluxe skins (in general) have a different, “outside” look to them, but this particular skin doesn’t. I think a lot of what it is, is that the last few deluxe skins have been designed in-house. To get those really eye-catching “exotic” deluxe skins that we’re used to, I really think that DE needs to contract the design concept to an outside, independent artist again. Ignus’ designs were amazing because they were different. He was an outside source that brought fresh, original concepts. Not to say that the work the DE artists do is bad, but for the deluxe skins I think we’re all looking for something different, something to spice up the normal aesthetic style we're used to seeing on our screens.

Edit: think Oberon (butterfly-goat spirit protector of the forest), Frost (buff yak herder of the alps), Chroma (oriental dragon), Mag, Saryn (poisonous flower). Even banshee, minus the awful color mapping (“yeah, having the whole legs be one solid color is fine. Yeah, having the dress be basically another solid color is fine” /s). They’re all different from the normal aesthetic style we’re used to seeing on frames. Even nova’s deluxe is different at least, regardless of whether you liked it or not. But this Mesa skin just feels like another normal skin. It doesn’t have that “exoticness” to it.

IgnisDei didn't design for Chroma or Saryn. Both Chroma Dynasty and Saryn Orphid were designed by in-house artists. I'm not sure who did Chroma's, but a guy going by SBigham did Saryn's, and it's the only deluxe skin he's made. Going by his portfolio, most of his work has been on armour, weapons, and landscape concepts. He's done a lot of Orokin stuff, and huge Corpus bosses I'd expect in the Venus Landscape.

[Xaranoth]

3 minutes ago, SaferSaviour said:

 

IgnisDei didn't design for Chroma or Saryn. Both Chroma Dynasty and Saryn Orphid were designed by in-house artists. I'm not sure who did Chroma's, but a guy going by SBigham did Saryn's, and it's the only deluxe skin he's made. Going by his portfolio, most of his work has been on armour, weapons, and landscape concepts. He's done a lot of Orokin stuff, and huge Corpus bosses I'd expect in the Venus Landscape.

Wasn’t trying to imply that Ignus was responsible for all of them, as I couldn’t remember off the top of my head. Thanks for clarifying. However, hopefully my point still stands regarding the beneficial influence that an outside mind can have on the quality of a deluxe skin, and regarding the “exotic” nature of the deluxe skins vs their vanilla counterparts and how the current Mesa deluxe (imo) lacks a differing aesthetic style.

[StabbyTentacles]

On 1/22/2018 at 1:56 AM, Rekkou said:

All i know is that, either way you'll never please everyone and no matter how much you think you know, the outcome can always be the opposite of what you expect. You do X, people complain why it's not Y. You pick Y people complain why it's not X. You do XY and people complain that you're being indecisive.

Even if they redo the skins, no guarantee you'll like it better. It might even looks worse for you. You are basically expecting something to fit your preference even though it was made without any intention to specifically fit to your preference

The chances of any warframe or any skins to fit anyone's preferences are slim. Redoing it never means the next one will fit your preferences, it only means the dice will be rerolled.

This is indeed a reality when dealing with design.

I'm hoping you understand your talent? From your work you display an admirable combination of talent, skill, and experience.

On 1/22/2018 at 1:56 AM, Rekkou said:

Even if they redo the skins, no guarantee you'll like it better. It might even looks worse for you. You are basically expecting something to fit your preference even though it was made without any intention to specifically fit to your preference

This is of course true, but it is also not the point I am making. When I say...

On 1/21/2018 at 9:35 PM, StabbyTentacles said:

This skin is pedestrian. Compared to...

I am not aligning my dislike for the design on a personal preference. (Although this may also be true.) I am taking the position that this design is pedestrian, unimaginative, tame, meek... 

While simply having to redo the skin will assign no guarantee of 'success.'

A revised, reconsidered approach to the skin will assign a greater chance of pursuing a 'successful' outcome.

On 1/22/2018 at 1:56 AM, Rekkou said:

expecting something to fit your preference even though it was made without any intention to specifically fit to your preference

For good or bad, there are 'characters' presented by/in the many contrasting Warframes.

These are not simply my personal preferences/desires/inclinations. 

While I, and everybody do have personal preferences/desires/inclinations, I and I believe the majority of people don't expect everything to be made to specifically fit my/their own personal preferences/desires/inclinations. That said we do share a perception of what a Warframe should be. The Volt Proto skin is undeniably Volt. It is also 'successful' because it is a radical and unconventional look, a departure from all that was traditionally/conventionally seen as Volt. As is the Mag Delux. Both examples push the existing idea's of these frames into new/unfamiliar territory.

They are also elegant and imaginative, and perhaps most important original.

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by StabbyTentacles

[Hypernaut1]

5 minutes ago, StabbyTentacles said:

That said we do share an perception of what a Warframe should be. The Volt Proto skin is undeniably Volt. It is also 'successful' because it is a radical and unconventional look, a departure from all that was traditionally/conventionally seen as Volt . As is the Mag Delux. Both examples push the existing idea's of these frames into new/unfamiliar territory.

They are also elegant and imaginative, and perhaps most important original.

 

But the forums hated the volt skin and made fun of it. 

Point is, people don't know what they will like sometimes and rush to judgement on the forums based on trends. 

I agree with the sentiment though, that those skins are successful because they match the theme of the frame. I also like the Ember skin. 

[takeshiblue]

17 hours ago, MonkeyBunny said:

I dont like the skin personally, Doesn't really look like Mesa, If you would tell me this is a Zyphr Deluxe skin I would think its more fitting. Just my opion tho 

same dude

[takeshiblue]

16 hours ago, ThorienKELL said:

Just wanted to say that I'm not great fan of this redesign. It's weirdly unthematic. Where is this gunslinger look with maverick helmet that wears trench-coat went? This looks more like ivara or zephyr. Couldn't they make it look more like union solider or something?

Saying that I have bought all skins will probably get this one too but I may omit the helmet. 

You are not the 1st and probably wont be the last to say this cause i thought it was Zephyr.

[takeshiblue]

14 hours ago, arm4geddon-117 said:

Don't like this skin, another case where i love the original 10 times better... gotta hope the model for her prime variant turns out better since i don't run WF through steam and can't buy the tennogen alternatives lol...

why not reinstall it on steam though?

[takeshiblue]

12 hours ago, SaferSaviour said:

Forgive my assumptions on your part.

However, there is no way to tell whether DE's design direction is better or worse for consumers without first seeing some numbers. We don't know whether there's been a drop off in purchases, whether they've increased, or whether there's little difference. Outside of that, there's really no way to tell whether the change in design direction is paying off.

I will say that prior to IgnisDei's termination, I did not view deluxe skins as much more than IgnisDei's designs. I did not complain about the direction because the direction seemed ironclad and unlikely to change. This doesn't mean I liked every design he put out. Some, I love, but there are others I see in game that still make me cringe a little. Even so, I did not complain about the designs I disliked as there was no point to doing so.

I feel what you are saying about the numbers but can you agree that more people have been complaining about the skins after a while are the decline in the love of the designs? More complaints = less satisfied consumers, right?

[takeshiblue]

6 hours ago, Xaranoth said:

To get those really eye-catching “exotic” deluxe skins that we’re used to, I really think that DE needs to contract the design concept to an outside, independent artist again. Ignus’ designs were amazing because they were different. He was an outside source that brought fresh, original concepts. Not to say that the work the DE artists do is bad, but for the deluxe skins I think we’re all looking for something different, something to spice up the normal aesthetic style we're used to seeing on our screens.

I read all of your reply, but I want to say that was Emi worthy Forum posting there. Like seriously I agree but you also added the facts and provided a possible reasonable solution. To a topic that has two of a coin constantly flipping.

[takeshiblue]

7 hours ago, SaferSaviour said:

Going by his portfolio, most of his work has been on armour, weapons, and landscape concepts. He's done a lot of Orokin stuff, and huge Corpus bosses I'd expect in the Venus Landscape.

Negative Ghost rider https://ignusdei.deviantart.com/  I misunderstood so my bad.

Edited January 23, 2018 by takeshiblue

[NightmareT12]

2 minutes ago, takeshiblue said:

Negative Ghost rider https://ignusdei.deviantart.com/

I don't see what Ignus has to do with Sean Bigham with the reply you just did.

You can also make a single post and edit it if needed instead of replying 5 times consecutively.

[takeshiblue]

43 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

I don't see what Ignus has to do with Sean Bigham with the reply you just did.

You can also make a single post and edit it if needed instead of replying 5 times consecutively.

kinda didn't realize that you could multi quote honestly. Also I don't know how but will try next time I guess. But i see now he meant Sean Bigham i thought he said IgnusDei didn't make any skins at 1st. 

Edited January 23, 2018 by takeshiblue

[Cryptix123]

Because apparently we're now just sharing our opinions, I'm actually going to farm mesa now because anything is an improvement over the default. Seriously, the blindfold thing looked stupid and badly done when I first heard of warframe in 2014 and it still looks stupid and badly done now. The only salvageable part of her currently is the ammo things on her hips.

[Captain_Of_The_High_Seas]

I actually kinda dig the look - as a Mesa main - the different theme is a fresh "coat of paint" so to speak. Granted I really love Nova's Deluxe too, which to most people doesn't seem to appease. In the end honestly - how amazing it looks depends on personal taste and fashionframe styles. 

[Cubewano]

7 minutes ago, Cryptix123 said:

Because apparently we're now just sharing our opinions, I'm actually going to farm mesa now because anything is an improvement over the default. Seriously, the blindfold thing looked stupid and badly done when I first heard of warframe in 2014 and it still looks stupid and badly done now. The only salvageable part of her currently is the ammo things on her hips.

People have always been sharing their opinions, this is a forum, it's what it is for. Cool you like the design though, or at least like it more than the default I guess.

[Cryptix123]

8 minutes ago, Cubewano said:

People have always been sharing their opinions, this is a forum, it's what it is for. Cool you like the design though, or at least like it more than the default I guess.

There's a difference between sharing your opinions and being entitled to a response. Not you in particular, just a few people in this thread.

[Cubewano]

2 minutes ago, Cryptix123 said:

There's a difference between sharing your opinions and being entitled to a response. Not you in particular, just a few people in this thread.

Not entirely sure what you are getting at, but k. 

[takeshiblue]

15 hours ago, Cubewano said:

Not entirely sure what you are getting at, but k. 

I feel like he meant that some people are too entitled to their opinion and wish for actions to happen after giving one. I feel like I can get like that sometimes since I'm so passionate about everything I do.