The people who extract with less than a second left on the timer on defense. Again.

[Vuthakral]

Yeah, we're here again. It's becoming a problem, again. I understand that steps have been taken to remedy this problem without punishing people, but at this point it's starting to look like there's no other way. I just had a game where the other three people were in on it, and all but one were all going to keep going, (with the one being undecided) but after the extraction timer hit one second they all practically in sync hit extract, leaving me there alone to do another five waves of high-level defense on weapons not meant for it. I mean I luckily made it out after running out of ammo on everything because for some reason the npcs stopped dropping ammo. This isn't the first time either, I've had it happens maybe three or four times in the past two weeks of days I played the game, so the problems only getting worse, like it did last time the extraction system was changed.

This kind of action in the community isn't just bad, but it could hurt it, as I know it's deterring me from wanting to bother if people are just going to keep doing this. I can only imagine if they do this to new players, who wouldn't have the knowledge or equipment capable of surviving as deep into a defense as I can. Be in their shoes, these guys just dumped you against what you see as high level enemies you have no hopes of surviving against, much less protecting an objective. It's just wrong, and I hate people who do this.

[GinKenshin]

it's an easy fix really: 

1- when a player switches from 'battle' to 'leave' 2-3 sec will be added to the timer. doesn't work when you go from 'undecided' to 'leave' 

2- this will have a max of 3 tries, as in you can switch between the 2 options for 3 times, after that you're automatically gonna be on the 'battle' list....this is to combat 'those' players that keep rapidly switching between the options for no good reason....if you troll, you fight. simple. 

the best thing you can do for now is to always have your mouse on the leave option and be prepared to get ditched 

the solution is real simple, it's just a matter of time for DE to finish working on whatever they think is more important than this QoL change....I guess the new OW (aka: grind), cinematic quest (aka: new broken system)...etc is more important >__> 

[Aleksi134]

Well i wouldnt personally call this a problem. Usually if i see someone rarely stay alone in battle, they arent paying attention to their screen for 5 seconds. I never have a issue with this really, i either extract if everyone else does or battle if other people battle.

[Robolaser]

Yes that's annoying. It seems to happen more often recently as the game gets more popular with a younger, immature audience.

Always ALWAYS be ready to leave at the last second yourself if you can't or don't want to risk doing the next 5 waves alone.

I don't understand why DE refuses to implement the simple and safe fixes people here have proposed for YEARS. Maybe they find that funny too?

Edited January 31, 2018 by Robolaser

[MakeLuvNotWerFrame]

if you doubt your ability to succeed for the next 5 waves then it is best to extract and air on the side of caution.

you have nobody to blame besides yourself for banking on the efforts of others and should count this experience as a life lesson instead of trying to control what others are able to do.

when you get greedy and take risks it's annoying to see these type of forum posts when it blows up in your face. "someone didn't behave how I wanted them to and now I'm going to throw a fit about it in the forums so I don't have to experience it again"

a big lesson in life is, situations perceived will not always work in your favor, and people will just do things to pissyouoff and cause an inconvenience in your life/experience

it is up to you to assess the risk and act accordingly, and keep in mind what you do and do not have control of in regards to letting things get to you.

Edited January 31, 2018 by MakeLuvNotWerFrame

[INight00]

To add on to this, there are also afk-ers. Who stay in the middle or click battle, then stop paying attention.
Sometimes its nice to get the rest of the squad to leave while they are in there.

[xXDeadsinxX]

31 minutes ago, GinKenshin said:

-Snip-

This is actually a really good suggestion. I would love to see that be improved on, for sure.

[(XBOX)BigLithuanian]

48 minutes ago, Vuthakral said:

Yeah, we're here again. It's becoming a problem, again. I understand that steps have been taken to remedy this problem without punishing people, but at this point it's starting to look like there's no other way. I just had a game where the other three people were in on it, and all but one were all going to keep going, (with the one being undecided) but after the extraction timer hit one second they all practically in sync hit extract, leaving me there alone to do another five waves of high-level defense on weapons not meant for it. I mean I luckily made it out after running out of ammo on everything because for some reason the npcs stopped dropping ammo. This isn't the first time either, I've had it happens maybe three or four times in the past two weeks of days I played the game, so the problems only getting worse, like it did last time the extraction system was changed.

This kind of action in the community isn't just bad, but it could hurt it, as I know it's deterring me from wanting to bother if people are just going to keep doing this. I can only imagine if they do this to new players, who wouldn't have the knowledge or equipment capable of surviving as deep into a defense as I can. Be in their shoes, these guys just dumped you against what you see as high level enemies you have no hopes of surviving against, much less protecting an objective. It's just wrong, and I hate people who do this.

Use recruiting chat instead of randoms and specify exactly how long you are planning on staying. That is what I do unless I'm in a rush or only need 5 waves.

[Sintag]

6 minutes ago, MakeLuvNotWerFrame said:

if you doubt your ability to succeed for the next 5 waves then it is best to extract and air on the side of caution.

you have nobody to blame besides yourself for banking on the efforts of others and should count this experience as a life lesson instead of trying to control what others are able to do.

if you got greedy and took a risk and it blew up in your face which leads to these types of forum posts are the result. "someone didn't behave how I wanted them to and now I'm going to throw a fit about it in the forums so I don't have to experience it again"

a big lesson in life is, situations perceived will not always work in your favor, and people will just do things to pissyouoff and cause an inconvenience in your life/experience

it is up to you to assess the risk and act accordingly, and keep in mind what you do and do not have control of in regards to letting things get to you.

Except this is about those people that leave at the very last second, before you can, essentially ditching you on your own to fail, after having said 'Battle' beforehand.  Where's the risk assessment for that sort of behavior?  You think the others are coming with you until the last moment and then they dart off giggling like little kids.  This isn't getting greedy, this isn't about control.  This is about people deciding that today they're going to ruin someone else's game and someone else, rightfully, angry about this sort of behavior.

[MakeLuvNotWerFrame]

if you are viewing the issue in a very personal way you should take a moment to pause and detach yourself from an emotional response.

 

the countdown timer and being able to switch ones choice as to stay or go has been around for as long as defense missions.

lag/connection delays. at home environmental factors or out of the loop voice chat discussions where not all are in on the goings on regarding decisions of the whole.

I myself have encountered situations where a sudden change was needed on whether or not to continue playing defense, I personally switch but try and do so leaving enough time for others to be alerted and make an assessment on if they want to stay or not, HOWEVER there are times that this is not possible.

 

now when I say it is the players fault if they are left behind being forced to trudge through a difficult situation. I refer to not having any contingent for a worst case scenario.

if you are running with nothing but un-ranked gear then you are a leech and just begging for a bad time, which many would happily oblige.

 

always ALWAYS prepare and plan for when/if you'll be abandoned that you have at least one thing that can carry you til extraction. be that a CC weapon/frame or a few effective Specters http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Specter_(Tenno)

 

these are things you do have control over, and would allow you to get on without depending on the action of others.

as well as they are something that can be enacted right away and solve the problem, but it is up to the individual to take these steps for nobody else is liable to do so.

[Vuthakral]

44 minutes ago, MakeLuvNotWerFrame said:

you have nobody to blame besides yourself for banking on the efforts of others and should count this experience as a life lesson instead of trying to control what others are able to do.

when you get greedy and take risks it's annoying to see these type of forum posts when it blows up in your face. "someone didn't behave how I wanted them to and now I'm going to throw a fit about it in the forums so I don't have to experience it again"

 

Sick burn attempt, but no, every time this has happened to me it was in Akkad, a place a lot of people pub to farm mastery on weapons and warframes.(Much like Hydron) Not a random defense I couldn't handle. If equipped to do so I could probably solo akkad for an hour or two before succumbing to boredom. I'm not quite endgame but I'm far from midgame currently. I had bad equipment on because I was farming mastery. Your point would make sense if I was actually being a spoiled little brat that is mad people left me on a defense I couldn't handle, but it's not, and I'm not. These people actively knowing what they're doing to the people they're leaving behind at the last possible second, intentionally forcing them to solo something. Akkad generally falls under people extracting from waves 10-20, so from there when you're in a squad that isn't communicating it's really up to see how many people are willing to keep going vs leave when the extract screen pops up.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Vuthakral

[MakeLuvNotWerFrame]

12 minutes ago, Vuthakral said:

 

Sick burn attempt, but no, every time this has happened to me it was in Akkad, a place a lot of people pub to farm mastery on weapons and warframes. Not a random defense I couldn't handle. If equipped to do so I could probably solo akkad for an hour or two before succumbing to boredom. I'm not quite endgame but I'm far from midgame currently. I had bad equipment on because I was farming mastery. Your point would make sense if I was actually being a spoiled little brat that is mad people left me on a defense I couldn't handle, but it's not, and I'm not. These people actively knowing what they're doing to the people they're leaving behind at the last possible second, intentionally forcing them to solo something. Akkad generally falls under people extracting from waves 10-20, so from there when you're in a squad that isn't communicating it's really up to see how many people are willing to keep going vs leave when the extract screen pops up.

I fail to see how cherry picking a valid point and making a counter argument while ignoring the whole of the conversation is valid

 

you know the risks involved, you know the possible outcomes and have ways to prepare for them. yet it's not your fault for being ill prepared for a bad/least favorable situation.

 

also judging from the "sick burn" and other ill understood context of your rebuttal you likely perceive my perspective/advice as an attack on yourself however invalid that notion may be, it is but a candid observation and true to life fact of the situation. do not presume to know the intent of others when you aren't fully informed for it shines poorly upon oneself.

[Vuthakral]

I feel like you ignored Sintag's response to you earlier entirely when writing your response to me, as he stated this isn't a personal problem and isn't a "I bare the blame" one. As Sintag said earlier, this thread isn't about being abandoned and trying to risk solo'ing five waves like you keep saying. This is about people who make it appear like they are going to keep going for five more waves, then at the last second of the extract menu (or under) they press the extract button fully knowing what they're doing. It's not an individual user-blame case either, because for this to be successful the people involved in extracting need to be on the same page and understand what they are about to do to accomplish it. Imagine being on the extract menu, one person sits undecided or on extract, while three others are sitting on "Battle" and awaiting the next five waves, then when under a second is left, the other two on the "Battle" side with you suddenly swap to "Extract", intentionally leaving you alone when, in a place like Akkad or Hydron, public cooperation is fairly common up to higher waves. This isn't someone's fault for "risking what they cant handle", it's because everyone in these kinds of defense locations is expecting people wanting to push farther for more mastery on their weapons and warframes.

 

Sure, I know the risks involved. I came prepared to farm mastery, like everyone else did. Sure, I know the outcomes. But I do not have a way to prepare for people jumping ship at the point so fast I can't jump with them without risking becoming one of them. By that I mean, at the point of how late they do it into the countdown, the only way to really avoid the problem is to do what they are doing, and that could end up making me extract in the middle of a game where people aren't going to screw me over, and I could end up doing it to them. As well, you are right. It's not actually my fault three complete rude players teaming together made the collective decision to play me, and ditch me after making the gesture they wanted to go further into the defense on a defense mission which I have already made the point several times that you seem to ignore, people actively go into using low or unranked equipment for the sole purpose of getting mastery experience for them. Their intention is specifically to ruin it for the one player not in their group fully hoping they fail the defense objective.Which I must bring up again, contradcits your own point, as in my cases my equipment is still good enough to finish the next five waves solo. So I must ask, why are YOU being defensive over this? Is it because you're afraid you are wrong? That's what it seems like to me. Whatever, this is off-topic to the point of the thread and you are starting to derail it by ignoring the points made presently obvious to you. I do hope you realize this and come to your senses and stop doing it.

[MakeLuvNotWerFrame]

45 minutes ago, Vuthakral said:

I feel like you ignored Sintag's response to you earlier entirely when writing your response to me, as he stated this isn't a personal problem and isn't a "I bare the blame" one. As Sintag said earlier, this thread isn't about being abandoned and trying to risk solo'ing five waves like you keep saying. This is about people who make it appear like they are going to keep going for five more waves, then at the last second of the extract menu (or under) they press the extract button fully knowing what they're doing. It's not an individual user-blame case either, because for this to be successful the people involved in extracting need to be on the same page and understand what they are about to do to accomplish it. Imagine being on the extract menu, one person sits undecided or on extract, while three others are sitting on "Battle" and awaiting the next five waves, then when under a second is left, the other two on the "Battle" side with you suddenly swap to "Extract", intentionally leaving you alone when, in a place like Akkad or Hydron, public cooperation is fairly common up to higher waves. This isn't someone's fault for "risking what they cant handle", it's because everyone in these kinds of defense locations is expecting people wanting to push farther for more mastery on their weapons and warframes.

 

Sure, I know the risks involved. I came prepared to farm mastery, like everyone else did. Sure, I know the outcomes. But I do not have a way to prepare for people jumping ship at the point so fast I can't jump with them without risking becoming one of them. By that I mean, at the point of how late they do it into the countdown, the only way to really avoid the problem is to do what they are doing, and that could end up making me extract in the middle of a game where people aren't going to screw me over, and I could end up doing it to them. As well, you are right. It's not actually my fault three complete rude players teaming together made the collective decision to play me, and ditch me after making the gesture they wanted to go further into the defense on a defense mission which I have already made the point several times that you seem to ignore, people actively go into using low or unranked equipment for the sole purpose of getting mastery experience for them. Their intention is specifically to ruin it for the one player not in their group fully hoping they fail the defense objective.Which I must bring up again, contradcits your own point, as in my cases my equipment is still good enough to finish the next five waves solo. So I must ask, why are YOU being defensive over this? Is it because you're afraid you are wrong? That's what it seems like to me. Whatever, this is off-topic to the point of the thread and you are starting to derail it by ignoring the points made presently obvious to you. I do hope you realize this and come to your senses and stop doing it.

I thank you for taking the time to form a well thought out and structured reply.

 

you have pointed out that yes deception is rampant, deceit has been in various aspects of warframe be it from trade to baiting in defense missions

 

but I implore you to read your own text and the text of others, the deceit stems from what you've stated quite a few times already

"it's because everyone in these kinds of defense locations is expecting people wanting to push farther for more mastery on their weapons and warframes."

 

that would amount to "expect" implied commonality all to often have I read complaint forums about one, a few or many doing what counters expectations.

then going about trying to enact change to inhibit freedom of players. let me further expand on this by asking. just what would you propose in solving the issue?

a timer? a commit to choice button? in which proposed solution does there not exist another method of deception and exploitation?

 

I stand by the side of logic and reason, where to not act in a brash manner until an absolute solution is present.

people want a fix to a problem, when the only solution atm is to prepare for deception or be cautious and not put oneself at risk

 

people have asked for a solution to cetus when it was released and there were those that didn't have the same goals

we have leeching afk'ers players and those doing their own thing.

 

those that want a solution seldom think the whole thing through or neglect to play the devils advocate looking towards just how it can go wrong

and now we have complaints about cetus "leave squad" host migration and the resulting failed missions and just... a mess.

 

it's why there isn't a vote kick for afk'ers. it's why you cannot readily patch out and solve the defense timer side switching no matter how much complaining one does.

because all proposed solutions often lead to even worse results, because humans for all their talents are quite adapt at being cruel and ruthless.

 

so the only course left is to prepare and mitigate as much as one can, cause for all good intentions you might have, brash decisions out of emotion seldom if ever lead to the results you may want.

 

I am not opposed to a solution, I truly am not. but coordinated deception is something you cannot just "solve" as one would hope/desire.

 

expect people to be honorable. hope that they are, but in this uncertain world you can only ever be certain by being prepared for the worst.

 

alluding to previous posts, in lieu of a solution the only viable solution of the situation is compromise. expect the worst prepare for it, don't be shocked or surprised. you maybe want a solution but there isn't one outside of being responsible for oneself and being ready for the expected/unexpected.

 

I know there are those that believe I'm an arse, however I'm just being candid about the reality of the situation indifferent to how others might feel about it.

reality is the bitter pill, life is going to make you swallow a whole bunch of them.

Edited January 31, 2018 by MakeLuvNotWerFrame

[Sintag]

To rerail: I say that, on this screen;

• Once you make a choice, you're locked in for the next five seconds.  This makes sure you cannot rapidly flick between 'Extract' and 'Battle'.
• If you make a choice with under 2 seconds left, the clock resets to 4 seconds, allowing other players to change their decision in advance (and to prevent would-be trolls from changing back to Battle, effectively creating a reversed instance of this issue).  This prevents ditching.
• The above condition only triggers once per instance of this screen.  This prevents infinitely holding this screen up.

And like that, suddenly people can no longer just select 'Extract' at the last moment without the would-be victim getting a chance to fall back as well.

[Himenoinu]

14 hours ago, Sintag said:

Except this is about those people that leave at the very last second, before you can, essentially ditching you on your own to fail, after having said 'Battle' beforehand.  Where's the risk assessment for that sort of behavior?  You think the others are coming with you until the last moment and then they dart off giggling like little kids.  This isn't getting greedy, this isn't about control.  This is about people deciding that today they're going to ruin someone else's game and someone else, rightfully, angry about this sort of behavior.

I always choose to stay ONLY if I can hold my own the next 5 waves. The mob density does scale with amount of players in a mission after all.

But when you run an endless mission to level your weapons/warframe, you're banking on the other players doing the fight for you.

Also, when going with pugs in any but the fissure missions, I don't expect them to stay in for more than 1 reward cycle, so the moment I choose to stay I do it regardless of their intentions and if I choose to extract it's because my current setup does not guarantee my continued survival or the success of the mission. So all in all, you don't get trolled/punished/scammed unless you are the one who's been pulling a fast one on the team by signing up for a mission way more demanding that what your unraked gear can face.

Other that that, I believe the countdown delay to be a tool to compensate for our inability to communicate. It doesn't take much effort to decide prior to the selection screen, via chat, if the team continues or not and, taking into account what I wrote above, a sudden change of heart won't have disastruous consequences. Still, it would certainly not hurt to help the undecided make up their minds.

And by that I mean not

8 hours ago, Sintag said:

If you make a choice with under 2 seconds left, the clock resets to 4 seconds, allowing other players to change their decision in advance (and to prevent would-be trolls from changing back to Battle, effectively creating a reversed instance of this issue).  This prevents ditching.

But rather just give the players one chance to change their mind between staying and leaving that adds 5 seconds to the timer. Being unable to dance between "Battle" and "Extract" would help improve communication too, just to make sure that "would-be victims" aren't themselves shifty people, ie: extracting, thinking others will and then going "hey! I get carried 5 more waves! cool!" just as the rest of the team decides to bail out, essentially getting locked back in the situation that generated the interface change. 'Cause let's be honest, there are plenty occassions when the people leveling weapons change their hearts when they see others staying (knowing they'd be fried if alone).

[Leorion]

Yeh... I was doing Hydron, and we reached the 15th wave. Everyone extracted and I was trying to - but my game wouldn't accept it. The button just wouldn't allow me and so I was forced in as a level 15 Mirage with an Ogris. I lost all the XP from before.

I know it's not the same thing as people leaving without knowing, but that too has happened before.

[Himenoinu]

55 minutes ago, Leorion said:

Yeh... I was doing Hydron, and we reached the 15th wave. Everyone extracted and I was trying to - but my game wouldn't accept it. The button just wouldn't allow me and so I was forced in as a level 15 Mirage with an Ogris. I lost all the XP from before.

So there we go! "I'mma leech Akkad in hopes someone goes there for relics". Why is it that you guys are going to some dangerous places (for a low level warframe and not optimal arsenal) and then blaming the failure on deceit and trolling or Lotus knows what else?!

18 hours ago, Vuthakral said:

... leaving you alone when, in a place like Akkad or Hydron, public cooperation is fairly common up to higher waves. This isn't someone's fault for "risking what they cant handle", it's because everyone in these kinds of defense locations is expecting people...

Public cooperation meaning what? Thinking to ourselves "I'mma push the battle button, and you bugger better do it to, so I can level my gear OR I SWEAR I'LL GO RAGE on the forum!"? Nevermind, you answered in the next sentence "everyone in these kinds of defense location is expecting..." not communicating, not colaborating. You/we are expecting other people to act in the way that benefits us the most. We're not gonna ask'em about, 'cause why would we?!

I don't know how you guys end up in such tight spots. In my rather short time spent in Warframe, I had no problem at all leveling anything, never got scammed at the extraction screen and didn't really feel like the progression was slow. But then again, I didn't look for an Akkad taxi when I was just ranking up my 2nd warframe, quite the opposite. I was playing alone and not overextending my stays in the missions. When I went public, I learned pretty fast that I'm much better off using the team chat for these kinds of decisions and being the first to opt to leave when my warframe or my damage output was becoming unfit to continue.

Also, if I'm leveling up the warframe, I make sure I pack the best weapon to handle the type of threats the mission will present, or the other way around. People exemplifying this problem have 1 thing in common. Sorry. You went there unfit for the task ahead.

Edit: when I go solo on public defense missions and I see people with either low rank or just having the level-up animation occur often, I even let'em know how long I plan to stay, so they won't have to guess my intentions It always works smooth :D

Edited February 1, 2018 by Himenoinu

[Leorion]

On 01/02/2018 at 3:03 PM, Himenoinu said:

So there we go! "I'mma leech Akkad in hopes someone goes there for relics". Why is it that you guys are going to some dangerous places (for a low level warframe and not optimal arsenal) and then blaming the failure on deceit and trolling or Lotus knows what else?!

Public cooperation meaning what? Thinking to ourselves "I'mma push the battle button, and you bugger better do it to, so I can level my gear OR I SWEAR I'LL GO RAGE on the forum!"? Nevermind, you answered in the next sentence "everyone in these kinds of defense location is expecting..." not communicating, not colaborating. You/we are expecting other people to act in the way that benefits us the most. We're not gonna ask'em about, 'cause why would we?!

I don't know how you guys end up in such tight spots. In my rather short time spent in Warframe, I had no problem at all leveling anything, never got scammed at the extraction screen and didn't really feel like the progression was slow. But then again, I didn't look for an Akkad taxi when I was just ranking up my 2nd warframe, quite the opposite. I was playing alone and not overextending my stays in the missions. When I went public, I learned pretty fast that I'm much better off using the team chat for these kinds of decisions and being the first to opt to leave when my warframe or my damage output was becoming unfit to continue.

Also, if I'm leveling up the warframe, I make sure I pack the best weapon to handle the type of threats the mission will present, or the other way around. People exemplifying this problem have 1 thing in common. Sorry. You went there unfit for the task ahead.

Edit: when I go solo on public defense missions and I see people with either low rank or just having the level-up animation occur often, I even let'em know how long I plan to stay, so they won't have to guess my intentions It always works smooth :D

I am definitely just blaming the buggy game, not anyone in particular. 

 

Hydron is known as a place to level up stuff, and I wasn't leaching. I was doing my best.