Organised Rant

[(PSN)RACIST_EAGLE65]

TL;DR: Removal of raids, PoE barely functioning, vaulted items being locked behind PoE is causing me to lose faith in DE

1. Raids are just about the only endgame content for players, as well as being the only content in the entire game that requires a team effort. DE said they're removing it to "fix it" and make it more accessible to lower level players. There are two things about this that I don't understand. Firstly, the entire concept of endgame content is to be a high level in order to succeed in it, I fear if DE ever "fixes it" they will set the difficulty on par with a star chart mission. Secondly, if your "fixing it", why is there a need to remove it before there is a replacement for it? To me, they are only doing this to force PoE on us in order to get arcanes, all they've been doing recently has been taking away from the traditional game in order to shove Plains down our throats.

2. The fact that PoE bounties are the ONLY source of vaulted artifacts. If bounties with vaulted relics were included as a possible avenue for the acquisition of vaulted items, this wouldn't be a problem. Since not all relics are available at the same time, the grind in a completely grind based game can be thrown to a halt until the bounties change, but even then, a bounty isn't guaranteed to hold the relic you want. This feels completely out of place in a game like this, as you aren't even allowed to grind for certain items. But, even if you are lucky enough to get a bounty, you're not even guaranteed to be able to play it reliably. 5/12 of my bounties last night were not able to be finished or even started for that matter. I was never allowed to leave the little airlock type room between Cetus, and the loading would never end unless I returned to the orbiter. All DE needed to do was toss the vaulted relics into normal drop tables, with bounties as an option, yet it's as if they knew Plains wouldn't be able to stand on it's own merits, even though it should technically be more efficient to do seeing as it would have a greater chance per 5 minutes than normal missions(But it's really not due to the aforementioned loading problems). DE went out of their way to shove Plains down our throats, at the cost of our enjoyment of the game, yet again.

 

That felt good to say, I've been thinking about this for two days now. What do you guys think? Do you agree? Disagree? Let me know down below.

[Trichouette]

il y a 5 minutes, (PS4)RACIST_EAGLE65 a dit :

1. Raids are just about the only endgame content for players, as well as being the only content in the entire game that requires a team effort.

Stop calling raid "endgame" or "hard".

All it takes is ~5min of explaining and knowing which frame to pick.

They're just a bunch of puzzles, if you like that, go buy yourself a rubick's cube, you'll definitely have a harder time solving it than LoR.

 

And I don't think the relics being in bounties only is a bad thing since only the newly unvaulted relics are available here.

The issue is more about PoE being buggy recently (and annoyingly boring overall)

[Genitive]

Regarding point 1, tomorrow is a devstream and they are going to address the removal of raids, so I will wait until then before giving a full judgement. Right now I understand why they want to remove raids, but not why they can't just leave them be until they introduce something in their place. I don't care either way, but there are players who evidently do.

About point 2, I somewhat agree that drops are limited, but, for me at least, doing bounties is not that different from farming them somewhere else. Some variety would be nice, however, if only for the sake of people with performance issues in the plains.

[NullSaint]

Since you asked...

2 minutes ago, (PS4)RACIST_EAGLE65 said:

TL;DR: Removal of raids, PoE barely functioning, vaulted items being locked behind PoE is causing me to lose faith in DE

1. Raids are just about the only endgame content for players, as well as being the only content in the entire game that requires a team effort. DE said they're removing it to "fix it" and make it more accessible to lower level players. There are two things about this that I don't understand. Firstly, the entire concept of endgame content is to be a high level in order to succeed in it, I fear if DE ever "fixes it" they will set the difficulty on par with a star chart mission. Secondly, if your "fixing it", why is there a need to remove it before there is a replacement for it? To me, they are only doing this to force PoE on us in order to get arcanes, all they've been doing recently has been taking away from the traditional game in order to shove Plains down our throats.

They have said that the data shows that not many people play the trials. They are removing it because leaving it in the game is not a cost-neutral option. Part of the reason for changing it is that it is (in some way) interfering with their changes and updates to the rest of the game. So the trials are holding up other things. It would be easiest to just remove them altogether, but they are promising to fix the problem and bring them back.

While there are clearly some issues with PoE, I have never had any problem with them, which makes me think that out-of-date PCs are causing the issue. But maybe it's some arcane weirdness between net code, Radeon cards and power lines. I don't know. But I don't buy that the Plains are "barely functioning".

Finally, the vaulted items are not locked behind PoE. They are available in relic packs. You can sell other non-PoE items and buy the parts with plat. Or you could, you know, buy the frames from DE and pay them for the game they are making.

And please, give the "shove X down our throats" thing a rest. 

 

Quote

2. The fact that PoE bounties are the ONLY source of vaulted artifacts. If bounties with vaulted relics were included as a possible avenue for the acquisition of vaulted items, this wouldn't be a problem. Since not all relics are available at the same time, the grind in a completely grind based game can be thrown to a halt until the bounties change, but even then, a bounty isn't guaranteed to hold the relic you want. This feels completely out of place in a game like this, as you aren't even allowed to grind for certain items. But, even if you are lucky enough to get a bounty, you're not even guaranteed to be able to play it reliably. 5/12 of my bounties last night were not able to be finished or even started for that matter. I was never allowed to leave the little airlock type room between Cetus, and the loading would never end unless I returned to the orbiter. All DE needed to do was toss the vaulted relics into normal drop tables, with bounties as an option, yet it's as if they knew Plains wouldn't be able to stand on it's own merits, even though it should technically be more efficient to do seeing as it would have a greater chance per 5 minutes than normal missions(But it's really not due to the aforementioned loading problems). DE went out of their way to shove Plains down our throats, at the cost of our enjoyment of the game, yet again.

 

That felt good to say, I've been thinking about this for two days now. What do you guys think? Do you agree? Disagree? Let me know down below.

Again, bounties are not the only source of those parts. 

I don't have an issue with the way they have done this, so I disagree.

[Glavenusaur]

Removal of raids doesn't mean much to me anyway, warframe never was meant to be challenging, as fashion frame is the true end game afterall, i do agree with the other two points though, they DEFINITELY need to be addressed.

[Marine027]

Seriously, i not want to insult but, yes, i actually do, are people that stupid?

Firstof i agree on the PoE, i not tike the palce and it shoudl be optional and jsut variety in where you want to farm certain relics, derelict and such still exist as example, so not lets abandon those.

On to why i call you stupid and others stupid, they said and mentioned several times Raids will only go temporarly, they will come back, does no one ever read correctly again?

[thewhitepanda1205]

Just now, Marine027 said:

On to why i call you stupid and others stupid, they said and mentioned several times Raids will only go temporarly, they will come back, does no one ever read correctly again?

The reason people are distressed is because the same thing was said about Dark Sectors, and here we are two years later. :P

[Marine027]

vor 1 Minute schrieb thewhitepanda1205:

The reason people are distressed is because the same thing was said about Dark Sectors, and here we are two years later. :P

Yes, maybe then we can start ranting still, i mean lets be real, how often does jordas break? Its better they remove it for now if they can't fix it, if it not comes back in like a few months or so, then we can start to complain, not right before the change even happened. Its like with the "Ember is doomed" threads before they actually played her with her change incoming.

[(PSN)Finn-X8]

I think you're over reacting cause I felt the same way with the bounty issue and that was just because I was frustrated and too eager to get the vaulted items that it made me get really salty about the relics being in the plains, but now that I got the thing i wanted I realize that farming the relics this way felt refreshing cause it takes us out of the usual grind (I emphasize the usual) and it feels much more rewarding than just farming normally.

About the raids issue, I don't really care cause I never played them and even if did I feel like if they can make them more fun and more polished in general it will be better than what it is now so that it can be more interesting for the veterans and whoever wants to do them.

[_Vortus_]

@(PS4)RACIST_EAGLE65 If the number of players doing Raids holds true compared to the last pie chart DE posted of what players were playing, it should have been dropped a long time ago.   It was equal to conclave.   But they kept it around because a couple enjoyed it, and the rest used it as a credit and plat farm.

Syndicate relic packs also have the vaulted relics.   In between unvaulting, there is ALOT of time to farm medallions.   Then they even give a heads up when its going to start.   And this time, its up for 2 months.   How much Syndicate rep can you farm in 2 months?   Alot.    I spent 360k, 120k for each Syndicate I am a part of, and get a decent number the needed relics.   While its RNG, no more so than running PoE.  

[ZirkonX]

I will talk about the PoE bounties part, heres the real annoying thing about them, you have the hardest time farming the low tier relics than the high tier ones
Espcially Lith and meso because of the reward system... which is really horrible.

IF i went into a defense/interception rotation i most likely get that relic 90% of the time because RNG doesnt play a huge part there.
What we have to face right now is RNG on every account.
Bounties take time to farm, and when you do farm them they dont give you a single relic for most part of the bounties which makes you feel like utter crap

Farmed 38 relics today in 8 hours (i feel super tired and burned out but i want the prime frames...)

Edited February 8, 2018 by ZirkonX

[thewhitepanda1205]

3 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

how often does jordas break?

 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's the last form of endgame left for some players, and part of the fun for them was finding workarounds for those bugs. If raids are taken away, those players don't really have anything to drive them. 

6 minutes ago, Marine027 said:

then we can start to complain, not right before the change even happened.

Although it may only be a vocal minority that enjoys raids, it shows that there are still people that enjoy them, and those raids may be the only thing keeping them tethered to the game. I can understand why they're voicing their opposition right now, as raids are the only thing they have left to enjoy. Raids have brought together some pretty big communities and can be really enjoyable with friends. Although many of us enjoy things like Fashion Frame and POE, not everybody does. 

[(PSN)RACIST_EAGLE65]

44 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

Stop calling raid "endgame" or "hard".

All it takes is ~5min of explaining and knowing which frame to pick.

They're just a bunch of puzzles, if you like that, go buy yourself a rubick's cube, you'll definitely have a harder time solving it than LoR.

 

And I don't think the relics being in bounties only is a bad thing since only the newly unvaulted relics are available here.

The issue is more about PoE being buggy recently (and annoyingly boring overall)

2

It's not really hard, but it does require a decent amount of team coordination and is literal endgame for Warframe, there are no enemies at a higher level than in the raids(without an hour of Void Survival obv)

As for only the unvaulted relics being in the bounties, that's why I have a problem with it. Not that they are in there, it's that bounties are the ONLY place to get them outside of relic packs.

[(PSN)RACIST_EAGLE65]

38 minutes ago, _Vortus_ said:

@(PS4)RACIST_EAGLE65 If the number of players doing Raids holds true compared to the last pie chart DE posted of what players were playing, it should have been dropped a long time ago.   It was equal to conclave.   But they kept it around because a couple enjoyed it, and the rest used it as a credit and plat farm.

Syndicate relic packs also have the vaulted relics.   In between unvaulting, there is ALOT of time to farm medallions.   Then they even give a heads up when its going to start.   And this time, its up for 2 months.   How much Syndicate rep can you farm in 2 months?   Alot.    I spent 360k, 120k for each Syndicate I am a part of, and get a decent number the needed relics.   While its RNG, no more so than running PoE.  

I suppose that is a valid solution, but I only can't really run that personally as I'm still not max rank with any of my syndicates.

[(PSN)RACIST_EAGLE65]

41 minutes ago, (PS4)Finn-X8 said:

I think you're over reacting cause I felt the same way with the bounty issue and that was just because I was frustrated and too eager to get the vaulted items that it made me get really salty about the relics being in the plains, but now that I got the thing i wanted I realize that farming the relics this way felt refreshing cause it takes us out of the usual grind (I emphasize the usual) and it feels much more rewarding than just farming normally.

About the raids issue, I don't really care cause I never played them and even if did I feel like if they can make them more fun and more polished in general it will be better than what it is now so that it can be more interesting for the veterans and whoever wants to do them.

The bounties themselves are actually not too bad, my main problem is the fact that I can't play the bounties half the time, my PS4 keeps getting stuck in the permanent airlock room.

[Trichouette]

il y a 28 minutes, (PS4)RACIST_EAGLE65 a dit :

It's not really hard, but it does require a decent amount of team coordination and is literal endgame for Warframe, there are no enemies at a higher level than in the raids(without an hour of Void Survival obv)

Aren't sortie 3 enemies higher level than that ? And what's the point of having high level enemies when it's easier to CC them rather than kill them.

Puzzles may have something like "team coordination" but warframe isn't really supposed to be about puzzles, and most players hate that.

il y a 29 minutes, (PS4)RACIST_EAGLE65 a dit :

As for only the unvaulted relics being in the bounties, that's why I have a problem with it. Not that they are in there, it's that bounties are the ONLY place to get them outside of relic packs.

The point is that you can get ONLY these ones. You can't get any other relic you don't need, only the newly unvaulted ones.

[S.T.M.P.D]

1 hour ago, thewhitepanda1205 said:

The reason people are distressed is because the same thing was said about Dark Sectors, and here we are two years later. :P

They did say that they do have some ideas for Dark Sectors, which sounded to me like they were around the same place as the Clan-nemesis thingymahooge, so...

I guess we wait for the devstream, see if they're ready to reveal anything major besides the 2 new Eidolons they've been hyping to death?

[Yagamilight123]

hace 1 hora, (PS4)RACIST_EAGLE65 dijo:

It's not really hard, but it does require a decent amount of team coordination and is literal endgame for Warframe, there are no enemies at a higher level than in the raids(without an hour of Void Survival obv)

As for only the unvaulted relics being in the bounties, that's why I have a problem with it. Not that they are in there, it's that bounties are the ONLY place to get them outside of relic packs.

ehhh ... sortie 3 ? . And there you need to usually deal with the enemies not just perma CC them . You are a pretty newish player and you are doing (for what i can tell) raids ... so not seem much of a "endgame"

[(PSN)robotwars7]

way I see it, the removal of raids will go one of two ways:

- option A: DE spend a large amount of time and effort (not to mention money) reworking and revitalizing LoR and JV. they change everything so that they feel like two completely new raids with better, or at least different mechanics and ramp up the difficulty (whether this is simply done via the usual armour scaling/ invul phases we already know or through other means is debateable). DE mention their progress semi-regularly in Devstreams and on twitter and keep us in the loop, followed by a Devstream reveal when it's ready, and then a subsequent release on PC. bugs on PC get fixed as usual and then raids 2.0 hits consoles. veterans love the challenge, more newbies are attracted to Raids, everybody wins.

or-

Option B: Raids get the same treatment that Dark Sectors got and are more or less axed from the game indefinitely, with no news of their return besides the snarky cries of Soon^TM. . the raids get thrown on the backburner while DE works on current things like the eidolons and more PoE tweaks, and focus on getting the Venus landscape ready for a reveal. people make threads asking when Raids will return and DE will either not answer or give us the Soon treatment. then after a year or so they finally get around to it, by which point most Veteran Raiders will have probably quit and everyone else will have either forgotten Raids exist, or have no interest in doing them.

obviously most people want option A, though there's been an undeniable bias in favour of the new Eidolons: they're probably easier to make, they have that "big monster boss" appeal that only gigantic killing machines can give, and the Focus Grind and Riven Transmutors will ensure there's always interest. now that Raid Arcanes are being moved there (temporarily, unless option B occurs), pretty much all the vets who still play will remain Eidolon Hunting. in a way though, I'd prefer it this way since other games have arguably Better Raids (even the flaming turd that was Destiny had fun and challenging raids, about the only good part of the game). Warframe on the other hand can buck the trend and stand out from the rest by having a different endgame that focuses on showdowns with lumbering, giant monsters that pose an actual threat even to a squad of magical space ninjas.

only time will tell what the future of raids will be...