It's really time to rework SURVIVAL missions-they're stupid!

[ant99999]

So, as I understand, the OP is not so interested in the explanation of the mechanics lore-wise, but more in the mechanics themselves and why they work like that.

I'll try to explain as far as I can. So, Survival is first and foremost a gametype with a target of challenging you how long can you manage the hordes of constantly level-upping enemies. The aim of Survival is to test your builds and synergies between the parts of the builds. This is the most balanced overall challenge, where almost all possible combinations of equipment can show themselves. There are no advantages for faster frames or stealth frames or silent weapons. The Survival is basically telling you: bring what you have and let's see what have you made of all it.

And if you look at this gametype from this side, you will actually understand what is every aspect of the Survival needed for.

The hordes of different enemies are the most balanced way to face the chosen faction. There are all: from weak close combat meat to heavy armoured special forces and they all require different strategy to deal with.

The lifesupport constantly depleting is there to ensure that you can't just hide from enemies in a closed room and leave the timer going. No, you must constantly be killing enemies if you want to survive.

The stationary capsules are for those who for some reason missed a couple of frags to give them another chance or for those who rely on massive crowd control rather than actual enemy genocide.

Why don't the health orbs level up as do enemies? And why they should? Your health doesn't increase and according to the goals of the gametype itself, it mustn't. The goal is firstly to challenge you, not to level you up. (And actually even if they did, this wouldn't help you much, the amount of health they give is so small, only Nekros who can get hundreds of them to drop can make any use of them.)

Why does enemies' level rise so quickly? Because if it didn't, how long would it take to a realy strong player with advanced builds and synergies to finally reach somehow challenging level of enemies? I can tell you - the whole day. And that's why it's pointless to get upset when someone can reach a higher score on the timer than you. It only shows - your equipment is weaker than his and you should find a way to further improve it, or you just haven't yet aquired all needed mods or pices of equipment just because your progress in the game is on the lower level.

I personally don't like this "git gud" kind of answers. They are kind of selfish. They are like "I somehow managed to reach this level, but now it's your turn and instead of helping I will sit here and watch you fail again and again trying to find a way to the top yourself." The realy helpful players can explain what is wrong with your current state and where the improvement is needed. They can tell you where to find the needed mods to make your equipment stronger. The only problem is to find them among all this "git gud" selfishness. But I'm pretty sure they are there.

Oh, and the last advice. All in this game is farmable (even the PvP standing). And the affinity is no exception. If you are levelling too slowly, maybe it is worth trying to find a more suitable way to level? Hydron is a very popular one but it can be closed for some players. Try doing Spy missions, they can be easily solo-ed. Or find a more suitable method.

[(PSN)Silverback73]

8 hours ago, (Xbox One)Spartan Roks said:

Do realize that this is the same game where a 6ft tall warframe can turn into a 12inch puddle and summon in a tentacle monster ON SOLID STEEL. I think you should really rework that opening statement appropriately

Well that's ^ just stupid...now excuse me while I use reality-bending energy to insta-teleport A PROJECTION OF my immortal teenage super soldier INSIDE her favorite killing machine...which also insta-heals as a side bonus.

Because I've got endless killing to do...in the name of peace and balance.

Water tentacles from solid steel...just stupid, and an* 😳 "Ooooh, look, NEW SHINIES TO MAKE ME FEEL SPECIAL!"

"Squirrel!!!!!!"

[Simoom]

Look, it's not like every other aspect of Warframe is airtight in it's plotholes, logic, or science.  That's not what would matter to a player like me.

It's whether or not the mission is fun to play, and for a player like me and many others, Survival is not fun.

I don't even know why, it just isn't.  I dread going in, and can't wait till I'm done.

I dread it even more on Void Relic missions when they're the only ones available.  I can't get out unless at least one other person does.  And even the two of us would be forcing everyone else to get out against their desire.

I'm not sure what they can do to make it better, I just know I avoid them as much as possible.

[NullSaint]

As a wise philosopher once said: "If you're wondering how he eats and breathes and other science facts, repeated to yourself 'It's just a [game], I should really just relax.'"

[NullSaint]

10 hours ago, (Xbox One)Spartan Roks said:

So not only does he have the whole water schtick under wraps, but he's also taking limbo's job as well? Wait, what if a hydroid puddled inside of a limbo bubble?

 

He'd probably have to clean it up. I'm sure Limbo doesn't want to do it.

[CryoSpecter]

9 hours ago, TheDenominator said:

WF didn't wear any spacesuit while using archwing. That should solve the question regarding the air-breathing WF.

It has been confirmed that archwings have built in life support.

[(PSN)Hiei-YYH]

13 hours ago, taiiat said:

Players don't scale in Endless Missions because you're supposed to leave at some point. if you scaled with it, you would not.

and what's the fun in that? wtf... is that the reason DE keeps nerfing things (beside the fact of the so called players "you kill more than me, nerf it now!!!!)???? it's that bad having fun PLAYING? you NEED to leave? -_-

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Hiei-YYH said:

and what's the fun in that? wtf... is that the reason DE keeps nerfing things (beside the fact of the so called players "you kill more than me, nerf it now!!!!)???? it's that bad having fun PLAYING? you NEED to leave? -_-

you're challenged to Kill Enemies as best as you can to play as long as you can.
just like.... any sort of Endless content in any game that has a purpose?

if you scale with Enemies in Endless content in a game, then it's literally worthless. playing for 6 hours is the same as 6 minutes then.
what's the fun in playing for longer being pointless?

[(PSN)supernova_girlie]

Survival should be about you, your warframes and weapons.

I wouldn't mind life support so much if it wasn't so vague about when or why it becomes more difficult to obtain. If I go in solo, I've got about a good 15 minutes before, and apparently for no perceivable rational reason, the life support stops dropping from enemies. It makes no sense. I'm killing the enemies at the same rate, if not more. I'm moving around, so the game does not think I'm afk. The only time this doesn't happen is when I'm on my Nekros.

My other issues with survival, which is my favorite mode, are:

1. The total conditions surrounding the spawn and spawn rate of enemies. Sometimes they don't spawn enough, only spawn from one direction, take forever to enter from adjoining sets. It's annoying because it causes players to stand in doorways to hog them up for themselves or causes players to run away from each other to find a good spot for themselves. It used to be that if you get four people into a room with four openings, the enemies would keep coming. Now it seems like they follow one person, a la fissure style, while the rest are scurrying to catch a few.

Also, it makes absolutely no sense why if someone comes over to where I'm killing a bunch, the enemies literally stop spawning in that section until the person leaves.

Many players don't know this: You don't have to be in each others' faces. If you leave the group, you must go far enough that the enemies will spawn for the rest again.

It's annoying that if one person leaves the group, the enemies stop spawning until that person either finds a place to settle or returns.

I want to be able to go into survival and kill enemies without ruining the fun for others.

2. Let people off the bus every 5 just like defense. People literally join public survivals looking to pick up a couple of resources and then run straight for extraction; they don't seem to care if the rest of the squad wanted to stay longer or not.

[(PSN)Hiei-YYH]

18 hours ago, taiiat said:

you're challenged to Kill Enemies as best as you can to play as long as you can.
just like.... any sort of Endless content in any game that has a purpose?

if you scale with Enemies in Endless content in a game, then it's literally worthless. playing for 6 hours is the same as 6 minutes then.
what's the fun in playing for longer being pointless?

thing is, your WF is S#&$ next to the enemy which scales INFINITELY, of couse there's a time to leave, but the way it's now you have to leave much soon... why in hell wf have only 300 hp? wtf, it should be at least 1000 to start with it, and to help, mods increased based on BASE HEALTH which is stupid, "oh look, an aura that gives you 18% hp, too bad it's boosting on your base 100 hp giving you the HYPER 18hp extra health... great huh?
Weapons are the biggest problem, enemies and their armour makes your weapon looks like S#&$ very fast... and they still NERF the crap out of it.

Edited February 10, 2018 by (PS4)Hiei-YYH

[taiiat]

19 hours ago, (PS4)Hiei-YYH said:

but the way it's now you have to leave much soon... why in hell wf have only 300 hp?
Physique

Weapons are the biggest problem, enemies and their armour makes your weapon looks like S#&$ very fast... and they still NERF the crap out of it.

300 Health or whatever is the default for your Warframe, is quite considerable for low-mid Level Enemies. you're still saying that Warframes should have enough Stats that you can personally play until you're bored before any Enemy can do anything to you, essentially letting you completely ignore all of the terminals in your Ship. Mods can easily make the game a W+M1 simulator, so some of those could help.

yes, everyone knows Physique is ridiculous and should be raised in value as well as being of total Health since it is an Aura. that's a separate issue though.

idunno, i can play an Endless Mission for an hour just because i feel like it and not really notice the Enemies changing all that much during that time. if you upgrade your Mods (and use ones that are well suited for your Equipment), you'll surely perform much better. a full set of Mods increases the Damage of your Weapons by anywhere from 50x to 500x.
if you do some experimenting, Scan for your Codex, and learn what the myriads of options available to you are(whether that be Mods or advanced Gameplay), then everything is much more effective.

[(PSN)Hiei-YYH]

5 hours ago, taiiat said:

300 Health or whatever is the default for your Warframe, is quite considerable for low-mid Level Enemies. you're still saying that Warframes should have enough Stats that you can personally play until you're bored before any Enemy can do anything to you, essentially letting you completely ignore all of the terminals in your Ship. Mods can easily make the game a W+M1 simulator, so some of those could help.

yes, everyone knows Physique is ridiculous and should be raised in value as well as being of total Health since it is an Aura. that's a separate issue though.

idunno, i can play an Endless Mission for an hour just because i feel like it and not really notice the Enemies changing all that much during that time. if you upgrade your Mods (and use ones that are well suited for your Equipment), you'll surely perform much better. a full set of Mods increases the Damage of your Weapons by anywhere from 50x to 500x.
if you do some experimenting, Scan for your Codex, and learn what the myriads of options available to you are(whether that be Mods or advanced Gameplay), then everything is much more effective.

and yet, the "Tenno" has 250... wow, so those brats are almost stronger as a "WAR" frame... ok

[El_Lokiet]

Generally I agree, they should require us to obtain something for another reason, perhaps to power a forcefield which protects us from nano-bot attack? This replaces the poisoned air, as it is still poisoned, but by something that would still damage our frames and not the ship/base we fight on.

[EinheriarJudith]

The biggest issue i have with ALL missions is the disconnect between solo and full squad. solo players are punished for doing so. ive said this in threads ive created and threads others have made about wanting to Select the kind of difficulty we want. my gear is too strong to be dealing with the crap spawn rate of enemies in endless solo so why cant i start a mission as if im in a x2 or x3 squad? shadow warrior 2 allows you to do this with their multiplayer because flying wildhog realizes your gear will reach a point where low spawn will be unrewarding and boring.

why is it 2018 and people who like to solo including myself are still dealing with low spawn, low credits (due to low spawn), and no way to increase either but through playing with others? by soloing i know a few things will happen. ill get the objective done without waiting on people, i dont have to worry about trolls like hallway heroes on mobile defense or roamers in survival, i dont have to worry about getting low xp because the enemies will come straight to me and not chase after another person who could be rooms away.

enemy ai is pretty damned bad. it should not be possible in survival to see enemies that arent alerted and trying to seek out the player. it should not be possible for enemies to home in on one player and ignore the others when in a squad. there are issues with low spawn and life support. people praise survival like there is nothing wrong with it but there clearly is something wrong.

Edited February 12, 2018 by EinheriarJudith