Update 22.12.0: Weapons Changes Feedback Megathread

[(XBOX)ALTBOULI]

Not sure if this has already been answered already but when are these changes coming to console?

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

On 3/2/2018 at 5:08 PM, (Xbox One)ALTBOULI said:

Not sure if this has already been answered already but when are these changes coming to console?

My understanding is Tuesday. Prepare your asterisk. 

[(XBOX)ALTBOULI]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Echo_X said:

My understanding is Tuesday. Prepare your asterisk. 

Cool, thank you

[tolivetodie]

Argonak  needs a status buff...

[vector77]

After playing with drakgoon I feel like it needs some buffs. First, let's start with the buff that I think is absolutely needed: reload speed increase and/or increased magazine size. It's not nearly powerful enough to warrant 2.3s reload and 7 rounds in a magazine. Second, it probably needs some more status (to be able to reach 100%) or damage increase on charged shots.  Right now it feels like it was balanced around rivens (it has a highest disposition out of all shotguns).

Another weapon that can use reload buff is twin grakatas. It has high dps, but its downsides are high recoil, bad ammo economy and 3 second reload. It doesn't need a big decrease, maybe to 2.2-2.5 seconds.

Edited March 5, 2018 by vector77

[(XBOX)Android2715]

What’s with the attica change? You reduced it damage but increased its crit damage, so now crite have the same damage (250 before with the 2.0x multiplier, 240 with the 3.0). But nerfed its damage everywhere else...

[(XBOX)UlisesTheFallen]

Can we get the Zenistar to work again? its been bugged for months on end. The disc doesnt want to shoot out, it gets locked in your hands, or just constantly gilitches back and fourth from sheathed, to in hand while holding guns. It sometimes prevents reloading and weapon switching as well. I use it for interceptions, but avoid it like the plague because it still hasnt been fixed 

[Omnicidal.Maniac]

Dual Toxocysts and AkJagara have fire rates that are still way, way too high to be usable as semi auto weapons.  Either increase the damage and reduce the rate of fire or make them auto fire weapons.

[(PSN)Black-Cat-Jinx]

Why are you calling them buffs when you're nerfing several of these into the ground? Attica just got it's damage capabilities cut in half and people notice. "Well if you build the weapon this one and only one way it can still arguably work" okay and if they don't? "Then don't use the weapon." Way to bungie things up..Sure there were some weapons that were too weak and needed their damage increased. I've seen absolutely no weapons in this game that need their damage reduced.

[Maganar]

Can we please have the Talons and Castanas horizontal spread removed?  I know this feedback must seem late but I guess that's why this topic is pinned.

I spent some amount of Kuva in the five-digit threshold on my Talons riven to get it with over +350% base damage because I find the weapon so fun to use - or, at least, I found the weapon so fun to use.  I haven't played Warframe as much since these weapon changes went live, and some of these changes are part of the reason I have not been as active lately.  I mean, yeah, a lot of underused weapons - some of which I liked - got flat buffs and that's nice and all.  But who decided it was a good idea to do a total balance overhaul on some of the less frequently used weapons and move there power around to capitalize on different play patterns that they weren't designed for (looking at Daikyu and Talons/Castanas)?  As for Daikyu, I appreciate you tried to compromise, but I know at least one friend who had a lot of Forma on their Daikyu who has stopped using the weapon entirely, but since you had that feedback and compromised on it already, I'll let that sleeping dog lie rather than kicking it again.

The Talons and Castanas I didn't say anything back when you revealed these changes because it seemed harmless enough since I assumed you would have the good sense to make it a light spread, and I further decided not to say anything after seeing the live change because I hadn't played the game as much lately and didn't want to make a hasty response.  Enough is enough though - these things are almost unusable, and I'm being dead serious when I say that.  Talons have self-damage and the spread is so wide that on any cramped environment (tunnels in Europa, Eris in general, and pretty much any hallyway in Corpus or Grineer ships) the threat of nuking yourself with an extra projectile that went SO WIDE it struck the wall right next to you is a very REAL risk which plays out as self-kills very frequently.  The result is that I just end up using my primary only whenever I equip those Talons which were once the pride of my secondary weapon collection.

Let's be real.  If I could just take off Multishot mods without screwing myself, I would do it.  But this game has been balanced on the assumption that everyone is always using Barrel Diffusion + Lethal Torrent on all secondaries.  You have, quite frankly, just cut the damage of these remote-detonation secondaries immensely in exchange for a broader AoE (since the spread is so wide they are hitting completely different targets).  By one third, to be exact, since that is how many projectiles used to hit the target you were aiming at.  You can say I have my riven, but 1) the game should not be balanced around the best possible riven roll one can get, 2) even with that much extra damage, the weapon feels incredibly unsatisfying to use now because I have almost no control at all over what I am hitting, rather than just blindly tossing out bombs across the floor, detonating them, and hoping by some miracle I don't kill myself in the process.  The experience is horribly unsatisfying at best and a serious threat of constantly murdering yourself at worst.  The only way I've found to make it fun is by using it on Mirage so that I can blanket an entire area, but I never wanted to use Talons on Mirage, so why is that remotely a plus?  I'll tell you - it isn't a plus.  When a weapon only feels fun on one warframe, it's a failed weapon.  And that's what Talons have become.

I apologize if it seems like I have a lot to say and as if I am ungrateful for so many generous improvements to a wide array of weapons.  However, what continually befuddles me is that many very popular weapons were buffed during this update, in some cases by substantial amounts, and meanwhile some niche weapons with small groups of users were instead completely overhauled (detonation secondaries) or rebalanced numbers across the board (Daikyu) for no explicable reason other than to make them even more unpopular.

EDIT: Spent a couple hours in Simulacrum trying to make Talons work as I would like them to up through at least ordinary Sortie content just as they used to.  I seem to have a build that works by eschewing multishot mods in favor of my super-riven and Primed crit mods.  Now, needless to say I am satisfied with the build I have in hand, but this does not remedy the situation I said earlier: the game should not be balanced around the best possible riven roll, and the incredibly wide spread when using multishot mods (a necessity without such a riven) results in a huge risk of self-kills.  Furthermore, I never wanted to build crit on Talons which originally had 5% crit rate and 1.5x multiplier.  If I'd wanted a crit weapon I would have built and gotten attached to a different weapon, not Talons... I wanted Talons so I could have a 100% chance of blowing up a target, not a 70% (the crit rate with my mods) of blowing up a target (it must crit to kill on the content I want to fight). I don't know if the idea was specifically to encourage a crit+multishot build (which seems to me to be the case), but if so this is a deeply flawed rebalance of Talons.  Talons already had AoE and increasing the spread more simply makes them more dangerous and less useful, so the multishot (at least with these mechanics...) becomes a bad idea, and people who liked Talons beforehand obviously did not like it as a crit weapon since it was not one.  I have already complained in other posts about DE trying to shoehorn crit into so many weapons to try and give them viability, which is OK on some (ones which previously looked like they were meant to be crit weapons but fell short of hitting a viable crit rate, fast-firing DPS automatic fire weapons where one sees the law of averages even out DPS fairly quickly, etc.) but will inevitably only reduce weapon roster diversity in the long run (because there will only be one type of weapons - crit weapons - and the weapons that do that job best will dominate without any other niches to compete against the crit niche), and this update was meant to increase diversity of weapons used.  Please do not continue down this path if that was also the intention for Talons (and it is only with great reluctance that I am adopting a crit build on it to bandage the gaping wound of a problem that is multishot being "mandatory" yet painfully BAD on Talons since this update).

Edited March 13, 2018 by Maganar
Added information after Simulacrum testing

[poncho2k]

didnt used my amprex since the nerf, didnt even know about it. tried using it yesterday for fun, but now im just sad 

[CountachLP400]

Please lower the reload time of AKlato :(

[CramExam]

I havent read through this entire post, so if this has been brought up already, my bad and please dont rush me with read the post replies.

I find it unfair for those of us, and I cant be the only player dealing with this issue, who had a weapon in foundry with all the needed resources to build that weapon. And just hadent gotten around to building it yet due to having many weapons already built and many more to build. Have that weapon get its MR Req raised in latest patch. So now I cant build that weapon unless I get to the higher MR.

I feel there should be a "grandfather clause" in this situation.  My example is Ferrox. I had it months ago in foundry, along with Scourge and Javlok. Which those 2 I have leveled now. But now I cant build Ferrox due to MR change.

Now I assume I will get a bunch of "then get that MR", or pay attention to news of game changes and "its my own fault for not building it sooner" responses. 

My point is that for the many of us playing this game around our 40 to 60 hour a week jobs. This MR change, this exmple, is hurting those of us who had weapons ready to build, and for whatever reason didnt. Mainly time constraints in my case. I cant be online everyday anymore or keep up with game announcements.

Its unfair and will upset many players who are in same situation. And I know of at least a dozen in my clan alone, who now have weapons they were gonna build, and use, and now cant even though they earned that BP or part and had the resources to build it before the MR changes.

And honestly I think raising the MR req for all of the better weapons in the game was smart. Just not totally thought through on what it would do to MR 12 and 13s in the game. 

Rant done. See you in the game.

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by CramExam

[Lights_Shadow]

With the changes to the Cernos Prime, I think we should have a variable crosshair for weapons that feature a toggled fire mode, such as the Zarr and the Stradivar. It can be difficult to keep track of your fire mode between weapon switches, with very disastrous consequences. 

[(PSN)MrNishi]

@[DE]Danielle

Is it intended that Rakta Ballistica (still MR6) and Synoid Gammacor (now after Beam uodate MR7) are not the same Mastery Rank as the other MR10 Syndicate Secondaries??

Telos Akbolto, Secura Dual Cestra, Sanction Castanas, & Vaykor Marelok all got changed to MR10

[KitMellow]

On 3/7/2018 at 6:56 PM, Omnicidal.Maniac said:

Dual Toxocysts and AkJagara have fire rates that are still way, way too high to be usable as semi auto weapons.  Either increase the damage and reduce the rate of fire or make them auto fire weapons.

This is funny and true because out of all the weapons in Warframe, the Dual Toxocyst and the AkJagara are pretty much the only 2 weapons that I HAVE to use an auto clicker macro with to get decent performance out of them; and would definitely recommend anyone else who uses these weapons to do the same.

If you don't want players to get repetitive strain injury or use third party apps, then please make the base fire rate of the Dual Toxocyst and the AkJagara weapons slower, or with more recoil, but also hit harder... instead of what they do now. :P

Particularly the AkJagara, because it has the exact same aesthetic design as the slower, much harder hitting, and harder kicking Tigris and Redeemer, but instead, the AkJagara now act like a pair of simultaneously firing SMG's with no recoil and don't really hit hard enough to be substantial. This just doesn't feel quite right to fit with the theme. 

Additionally, the AkJagara now has very poor ammo efficiency after the changes, because the 2 round burst it fires does the same damage that 1 round used to do before. The least you could do is increase the ammo pool size of the AkJagara to 400, up from the old 210 that wasn't touched during the changes.

Edited March 20, 2018 by KitMellow

[(PSN)II_Skeletor_II]

Why the Zaws are no more marked as mastered in my Profil list ? I already sell the Zaws after i leveld it.

Pls say its just a bug and dont say i must build every Zaw again and farm all the ressources again !

To play new content in this game is wasting of lifetime, its better to wait some months until DE is sure how to make the new stuff.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

On 3/24/2018 at 8:08 AM, (PS4)II_Skeletor_II said:

Why the Zaws are no more marked as mastered in my Profil list ? I already sell the Zaws after i leveld it.

Pls say its just a bug and dont say i must build every Zaw again and farm all the ressources again !

To play new content in this game is wasting of lifetime, its better to wait some months until DE is sure how to make the new stuff.

1st I believe this would be a Support issue.

2nd - When you say you Mastered them was that leveled (Profile showing Reached level 30) or Gilded and releveled (Actually added mastery points to Profile)

Only the 2nd one "actually" counted as Mastered.

[vector77]

On 3/20/2018 at 5:58 AM, KitMellow said:

Particularly the AkJagara, because it has the exact same aesthetic design as the slower, much harder hitting, and harder kicking Tigris and Redeemer, but instead, the AkJagara now act like a pair of simultaneously firing SMG's with no recoil and don't really hit hard enough to be substantial. This just doesn't feel quite right to fit with the theme. 

Additionally, the AkJagara now has very poor ammo efficiency after the changes, because the 2 round burst it fires does the same damage that 1 round used to do before. The least you could do is increase the ammo pool size of the AkJagara to 400, up from the old 210 that wasn't touched during the changes.

I agree, it really needs more ammo. It also can use some damage buff. I want to write about my experience with that weapon. I got 2 akjagara rivens from sorties, so I decided to try it. I mostly only play kuva floods/siphons (so I use kavat) and sorties. The perfomance of this weapon on lvl80-110 enemies was really underwhelming and it run out of ammo very fast. 

My first riven was +reload, +status duration, +multishot, -zoom. This is a slash based status weapon, so it produces a lot of slash procs, the problem here is that its base damage is low, so the proc damage is very low too. With that riven I learned that viral is not really viable option, you waste a lot of ammo to inflict a lot of procs and then still need to wait 5-10 seconds for the procs to finish the enemy or waste even more ammo to finish him quicker.

My next riven was +toxin, +status chance, +damage to infested, - flight speed. With that riven I learned that it can strip armor very fast, but then even with stripped armor it doesn't have enough damage to finish the enemy quick enough.

So I decided to roll it until I'll get +damage, I was about to give up and dissolve it into endo but then I finally got a really good roll: +damage, +multishot, +toxin, -fire rate (with lethal torrent it has 12 fire rate, so negative doesn't matter much). That riven changed my perception of the weapon, it finally became good. From simulacrum testing I still don't think viral is good on it, corrosive works much better on high level armor targets, but it finally can kill enemies fast and without spending 1/3rd of the ammunition on a couple of enemies. It still has big ammo problems though, I actually run both pistol scavenger and ammo mutation (standard, I don't have the primed one) for more comfort, probably in most situations only one of these mods should be enough.

It is good to know that great riven can make this weapon powerful, but realistically most people won't be that lucky. It has MR8 requirement, so I think it should be buffed. Ammo increase is a necessity. And then maybe damage increase or at least a bit faster reload.

Edited March 28, 2018 by vector77

[SmollFeral]

The Stug,the worst weapon in the  game,didn't get a buff,why?

[(XBOX)MintyFreshMike]

I don't like how they how drastically increased the Mr for a lot of weapons. During my noobier days, I was so happy when I was able to get the Tigris. I still use it(Mr 11. Can't get tigris prime) I feel bad for noobs, especially those who were working towards a gun that's like Mr 10 now or something

[lonyue]

When I hope put colour on twin blades can divide it into a left knife and a right knife so that the degree of freedom is higher. I hope my suggestion can be adopted. Thank you.

[Doomsknightmare]

On 2018/2/10 at 7:45 AM, [DE]Danielle said:

Projectile lifetime reduced from 4 secs to 2

Why nerf Drakgoon's projectile lifetime ? Nobody's using this poor babe even after the buff and don't you forget the Drakgoon-exclusive Fomorian Accelerant mod ? Now no more "bounces up to 4 times" because its projectiles just vanish after one bounce :-(

[Doomsknightmare]

On 2018/3/30 at 5:00 AM, SmollFeral said:

The Stug,the worst weapon in the  game,didn't get a buff,why?

Couldn't agree more...