Update 22.12.0: Weapons Changes Feedback Megathread

[LucifelShiningL]

Machine-gun type Assault rifles(Example: Soma) has Ramp-up.

BUT, They do 100% damage even if first bullet. Just Ramping up the fire rate.

Beam weapons dealing start 10% damage first strike, and even if you change the target.

Is this same thing?

NAH.

Edited February 23, 2018 by LucifelShiningL

[TwilitAngel]

33 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Plus, they already have tiny range. It's enough of an incentive not to use a beam even without the ramp up mechanic.

Ever try the range increasing mods? They feel fine to me with or without them.

Also, I see too many people complaining about this ramp up thing and it's literally pointless to argue over something so dumb. It's 1 second. People are crying over 1 second. Through testing, I find absolutely no problem with the beam weapons or mechanics. I feel like some people just love to complain. I've already seen a few apologize for complaining after actually getting in game and playing with the weapons. They are much better than they were. Drop it. This is done and this is the kind of feedback DE doesn't want. Sure, ramp up over 1 second, but so what? You have to aim at something for a second as if that's hard. I find most enemies die even before a second or in a second. I notice the ramp up on some heavier units, but they usually die shortly after. These beam changes were very welcome and much needed for awhile. Some might even say they are too strong now. Please be more considerate to DE as they are doing a great job and deserve better feedback than people whining about a 1 second ramp up. :)

Edited February 23, 2018 by TwilitAngel

[iceyShardZ]

i really REALLY hope they revert it or something pretty soon

[(PSN)Cynicaid]

Laser-guided anti-fun.

 

Crap like this is why I have trouble logging in anymore.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, TwilitAngel said:

Ever try the range increasing mods? They feel fine to me with or without them.

Also, I see too many people complaining about this ramp up thing and it's literally pointless to argue over something so dumb. It's 1 second. People are crying over 1 second. Through testing, I find absolutely no problem with the beam weapons or mechanics. I feel like some people just love to complain. I've already seen a few apologize for complaining after actually getting in game and playing with the weapons. They are much better than they were. Drop it. This is done and this is the kind of feedback DE doesn't want. Sure, ramp up over 1 second, but so what? You have to aim at something for a second as if that's hard. I find most enemies die even before a second or in a second. I notice the ramp up on some heavier units, but they usually die shortly after. These beam changes were very welcome and much needed for awhile. Some might even say they are too strong now. Please be more considerate to DE as they are doing a great job and deserve better feedback than people whining about a 1 second ramp up. :)

If you look at my profile, you will know I have used the Cycron extensively, even before the changes. I have a great riven for it, and know the ins and outs of the gun, to the point I know exactly where is the maximum range and will not shoot until enemies are within engagement distance (because ammo economy on the old Cycron is just bad).

I have play tested several beam weapons, and while they are extremely effective now at culling extremely hard targets, to the extent my Cycron is outperforming even my Tigris Prime (thanks to riven) in Simulacrum for time taken to kill one corrupted bombard, I am not complaining about that. It is simply that the area damage of single beams has decreased, as sweeping them across trash mobs like I used to do in the past just doesn't work as well as it did. You don't notice it on Hydron (which is actually pretty good for weapon testing as well in actual combat if no AoE frames come), but the beams do suffer for TTK at mid levels of about 50 - 70 (i.e. Sortie 1). They improve after that though.

Why I would complain, is that firstly, the Amprex's chains don't ramp up properly. Others are reporting the same for the Atomos. Also, switching targets isn't good (when Beam Weapons are excellent CC guns for their now good proc rate), and positive fire rate mods actually worsen ammo economy. I did suggest to tie ramp up to fire rate mods, so faster fire rate = faster ramp up.

However, is the ramp up necessary? No, actually. The beams aren't out DPSing any standard guns out there.

 

Edited February 23, 2018 by Guest

[Xelectrobird]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Cynicaid said:

Laser-guided anti-fun.

 

Crap like this is why I have trouble logging in anymore.

feel the same...

[Xelectrobird]

19 minutes ago, TwilitAngel said:

Ever try the range increasing mods? They feel fine to me with or without them.

Also, I see too many people complaining about this ramp up thing and it's literally pointless to argue over something so dumb. It's 1 second. People are crying over 1 second. Through testing, I find absolutely no problem with the beam weapons or mechanics. I feel like some people just love to complain. I've already seen a few apologize for complaining after actually getting in game and playing with the weapons. They are much better than they were. Drop it. This is done and this is the kind of feedback DE doesn't want. Sure, ramp up over 1 second, but so what? You have to aim at something for a second as if that's hard. I find most enemies die even before a second or in a second. I notice the ramp up on some heavier units, but they usually die shortly after. These beam changes were very welcome and much needed for awhile. Some might even say they are too strong now. Please be more considerate to DE as they are doing a great job and deserve better feedback than people whining about a 1 second ramp up. :)

no,people are getting annoyed because the damage resets for EVERY single new target,that is infuriating beyond explanation

[fireyair]

i can't believe they did this after such a long time that these weapons sucked,

and 1 day its like "Hey they are back again"!

and a second after that its 

"damage returns to 10% every time after switching targets"

why just why

[DarcnyssWolfe]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)Cynicaid said:

Laser-guided anti-fun.

 

Crap like this is why I have trouble logging in anymore.

 

7 minutes ago, Xelectrobird said:

feel the same...

 Ditto... sadly. Used to love this game, amassed hundreds of hours in my first few months, now I can barely bring myself to spare an hour or two a week.

[Acersecomic]

1 hour ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

It's not a matter of opinion, don't get confused on what an opinion is. Sure, you may not LIKE them, but all beam weapons are powerhouses :]

Not when you can't effectively apply it. As is case with Convectrix :P Opinion aside, powerhouses are not inconvenient nor do they get you killed before you get to even shoot at them :P

1 hour ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Alt-fire got changed :]

Yeah but the altfire is... sweeping left and right... I mean... what's that supposed to do? Scan rooms?

[Recel]

5 minutes ago, Acersecomic said:

Not when you can't effectively apply it. As is case with Convectrix :P Opinion aside, powerhouses are not inconvenient nor do they get you killed before you get to even shoot at them :P

Yeah but the altfire is... sweeping left and right... I mean... what's that supposed to do? Scan rooms?

This is what it's meant to do! Deal slash procs! Fear my six and thirteen damage slash procs!
This is my damage with Primed Point Blank, on a not yet fully built Convectrix. Once I'm able apply elemental and other mods, I'm sure the damage of the secondary fire will be staggering! :P

[Ozent]

1 hour ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

Alt-fire got changed :]

New change makes single target beam weapons lose over 10x dps the more enemies they hit over time due to damage increase being per target now. Damage to one target might be great, does a lot of damage still. But once you switch targets it's back to 10% and a 1 second wait. The moment you miss 1 tick, the timer resets on that target. This is likely to be changed soon, don't worry on console lol, you'll have good beams.

[iceyShardZ]

1 hour ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

It's not a matter of opinion, don't get confused on what an opinion is. Sure, you may not LIKE them, but all beam weapons are powerhouses :]

just see the post above yours 

[iceyShardZ]

DE, yesterday i thanked you for finally making the weapon ive been using for thousands of hours,from almost okay,to completely fine,

however with the recent hotfix i feel that my damage is being reset again and again with each new enemy,and in any place that is not a simulacrum it is barely playable...

this damage per target thing shouldn't apply to the glaxion and the convectrix,due to the already annoying mechanic with the convectrix,and the extremely low critical chance and beam size of the glaxion,

the ignis wraith and amprex can handle this change,however the Glaxion CANNOT!

please either revert this change,make it that beam weapons ramp up from 50% rather than 10%,make fire rate reduce ramp up time,or just flat out reduce ramp up time to 0.4 seconds rather than 1 second

because when its per target,1 second ramp up time is just vomit inducing to play with,it is UTTERLY unfun and i would rather have my old glaxion back

[RonkV]

Hi, convectrix can't shoot through Nidus larva. It's pretty anoying.

[Ham_Grenabe]

11 hours ago, (PS4)remo_yesman said:

Ay boss, when does the patch hit consoles..?

You probably saw already, but don’t get too excited. DE nerfed beam weaps a day after the buff. 

[Recel]

Since the Convectrix thread was merged here, let me list all the things wrong with the weapon.

-It's a shotgun, that is a precision weapon and a beam weapon.
-It has to use shotgun ammo which means, even with ammo mutator, you can't keep up with the weapons ammo use.
-It uses shotgun mods, which give less bonuses, which is fine for high damage shotguns, but Convectrix nor has the spread or damage of a shotgun, meaning it damage can't be raised as much as a precision beam rifles, while acting almost the same as a precision beam rifle.
-The convergin gimmic, especially with the new damage ramp up time, means you are wasting valuable ammo while not actually dealing damage.
-The secondary fires gimmic with the ramp up time ensures the secondary fire mode never reaches full damage potential.
-The damage is halfed between the two beams, further reducing damage before conveging and dmage ramp up.

[LucifelShiningL]

Simple solution : Just make the 100% damage start. All done. Ramp up per target? then make bonus damage amplifier. 1 sec to +10% bonus damage ramping up.

or make same as Machine-gun type Assault Rifles.

Ramping up the fire rate.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, LucifelShiningL said:

Simple solution : Just make the 100% damage start. All done. Ramp up per target? then make bonus damage amplifier. 1 sec to +10% bonus damage ramping up.

or make same as Machine-gun type Assault Rifles.

Ramping up the fire rate.

I dont even know why they tought its a good idea to make this change.

Seriously a weapon either heats up from start and reaches full potential after X seconds (like pre-patch) or it starts with full damage what increases slowly.

My phage is once again useless and lets not talk about my spectra what was useable finally.

[Gene_Freak]

The beam ramp-up was a mechanic I wasn't wild about to begin with, but it makes some sense fluff-wise and it's not without precedent as many weapons (Soma, Gorgon, etc) take a moment to reach peak damage output. Having it apply per target is baffling, I genuinely don't understand why this is necessary.

[MJ12]

The ramp-up per target makes beam weapons basically inferior in all ways compared to shotguns.

Shotguns deal much higher instantaneous damage per second, have better range (since they generally only suffer from pellet spread and damage falloff, not a beam that instantly vanishes after a certain distance), have much more forgiving aim (pellet spread, again, plus if you move your aimpoint one pixel off the enemy they don't reset to 10% damage), and have quite comparable sustained damage per second, with often-excellent ammunition efficiency.

The only niche that beam weapons have now is applying status procs rapidly, except for the problem that shotguns, with their high damage, reliably apply the 'dead' status proc whether or not they're high-crit or high-status weapons, which is the best status proc because the 'dead' status proc:

-Doesn't wear off

-Stops the enemy from moving around

-Stops the enemy from shooting

-Makes the enemy no longer block gunfire

-Makes the enemy drop loot and affinity

 

[Urlan]

7 hours ago, (PS4)LoisGordils said:

It's not a matter of opinion, don't get confused on what an opinion is. Sure, you may not LIKE them, but all beam weapons are powerhouses :]

Odd, I guess I will have to re-educate myself on what an opinion versus fact is. I am sure you have detailed analysis available from your extensive play with the reworked weapons or are you going by what you interpret from reading stats on a page? If so, noticing that several received reductions to range, damage, magazine, or now require shooting one single target without missing to do their damage might be something to note as strikes against the weapons. Noting their ammo use to get that 1sec might also be useful - 12 ammo on one dude without missing or releasing the trigger for a synapse for instance - or the fact that beam weapons can not hurt enemies while they are effected by a Nidus Larva for instance, that could be useful.

So what pray, is not opinion about the beam weapons being "powerhouses". If you wouldn't mind sharing your experience with them on PC, I would be glad to re-evaluate my own experience and that of players whose opinions I value having similar issues as beam weapons go through their growing pains.

[DawnFalcon]

10 hours ago, iceyShardZ said:

NOT WITH THE WEAPONS UNAFFECTED BY THIS CHANGE,

nobody has to aim with the @(*()$ ignis..........

Actually it's area affected has been reduced, and this does really hurt some builds like Spore Saryn.

[mazzinia]

I guess this may be the right place to post.

I'm a user of the Quanta Vandal since it's initial introduction ( event ), is my primary weapon ( over 366k kills ) to the point that I never used something else since getting it...  and well, I'm not happy with the changes it got subject.

I don't deny that now is a lot more quick to take down a level 150 target, but used on daily missions now sucks bigtime and I find it not usable anymore as before.

1) ammo economy is gone, and in a normal void extermination ( nightmare ), I get empty after around 109 kills ( over a total of more than 200 required )

2) I not only need more ammo, now, but I need more ammo to kill a single target ( thanks to lowering the 12k dps beam down to a meager 1.2k )

I've tried to do very quick bursts to try to economize, but it doesn't work at all... bottom line, a 6 forma weapon that was solid for an all purpose usage in every possible situation and especially vs mobs ( with a good punch through ) now is just a shadow of itself and unreliable...

I really hope that there's still space for a revision and some corrections. As things are, to go on par with how it was before, would need 10 times the max ammo... or the option to chose if using the old firerate ( 1.2 , bumping back the damage by a factor of 10 ) or the new ( this way one would be able to set the rate high, for raids and sorties, by example , and low for all the rest )

[Recel]

3 minutes ago, mazzinia said:

I guess this may be the right place to post.

I'm a user of the Quanta Vandal since it's initial introduction ( event ), is my primary weapon ( over 366k kills ) to the point that I never used something else since getting it...  and well, I'm not happy with the changes it got subject.

I don't deny that now is a lot more quick to take down a level 150 target, but used on daily missions now sucks bigtime and I find it not usable anymore as before.

1) ammo economy is gone, and in a normal void extermination ( nightmare ), I get empty after around 109 kills ( over a total of more than 200 required )

2) I not only need more ammo, now, but I need more ammo to kill a single target ( thanks to lowering the 12k dps beam down to a meager 1.2k )

I've tried to do very quick bursts to try to economize, but it doesn't work at all... bottom line, a 6 forma weapon that was solid for an all purpose usage in every possible situation and especially vs mobs ( with a good punch through ) now is just a shadow of itself and unreliable...

I really hope that there's still space for a revision and some corrections. As things are, to go on par with how it was before, would need 10 times the max ammo... or the option to chose if using the old firerate ( 1.2 , bumping back the damage by a factor of 10 ) or the new ( this way one would be able to set the rate high, for raids and sorties, by example , and low for all the rest )

Yeah. I'm toying around with the Convectrix which has the same issue now with the "ramp up" nerf. It's also exegerated by the beams convergence time.
Because of the ramp up you are essentially wasting ammo doing a small amount of the weapons actual damage. This is multiplied because you have to ramp up for each target, and missing the target for even a milisecond forces the ramp up again.

Beam weapons now waste a ton of ammo on doing a fraction of their actual damage.