Why Chroma will never be tanky again: (UPDATED TO CONTAIN THE BEST BALANCING IDEAS IN THE FIRST POST)

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Walkampf:

You are, again, flat out wrong.

Vex armor is now behaving exacly like other abilities. It was overperforming before the patch.

yes true. it is on par with other abilities. the problem is that other frames have something to make them unique. but vex armor is just a average ability in an other of thousands. and chroma has no other ability to make him unique. so either give him something else or make vex armor unique again

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb EmissaryOfInfinity:

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt when I was reading the first few pages of this thread, but you've spent this entire thread digging yourself into the same hole. It's clear you just plain don't understand the issue at hand, and should probably stop before you embarrass yourself further.

I've been a Chroma main nearly since I started playing this game, long before I had the mods to make Chroma the monster he was capable of becoming, and even then one thing was clear: Chroma is the living weapon. He's the Frame you use when you want to plow into an enemy horde and just rip them to shreds with your weapons in hand, without all the bells and whistles other Frames might come with. His potential for scaling cemented that identity, allowing him to take on threats most Frames would shudder at. He was only good at one thing, but he was undeniably the best at it.

Now, we stand at a point where a caster can attain as much EHP as Chroma, and his damage buff can be outdone by a bard. This isn't an issue of difficulty or bugs or anything of that nature. It's about Chroma being stripped of his identity, and trying to figure out how to bring that back without breaking the game like before.

exaclty! and if this was a bugg or not is not even important. if the current state is how is is supposed to be he is still bad. if they want to keep vex armor like this fine. but give him another ability that makes him unique again.

[Walkampf]

vor 1 Minute schrieb EmissaryOfInfinity:

His potential for scaling cemented that identity, allowing him to take on threats most Frames would shudder at. He was only good at one thing, but he was undeniably the best at it.

Here is the issue, where was his identity forged?

Was it at DEs, where they created him, or was it in the minds of those of only looked at the exploitable Vexarmor?

Because this kind of identity crysis whould also be a problem for Ember and Banshee.

So, is it really the identity of a Warframe when the developers themself are activly changing those easily exploitable abilities and augment?

In the end, als that is then left is the 'identity' a small group of players want a certain Warframe to be.

You claim his identity is the ability to take on threats other Frames whould shudder at...

And why exacly whould the fact that you choose Chroma make you objectivly stronger than other players charackters?

To remind you of your own words, you claim, that Chromas identity is that he should be able to face enemies, that other Warframes whould shudder at (because they are not as strong as Chroma)...

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Walkampf:

Was it at DEs, where they created him, or was it in the minds of those of only looked at the exploitable Vexarmor?

yes because they didnt fix it in 3 years. they said they know it but they leave it for chroma because it was his identity

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Walkampf:

To remind you of your own words, you claim, that Chromas identity is that he should be able to face enemies, that other Warframes whould shudder at (because they are not as strong as Chroma)...

and yes thats the whole reason of game progression. you progress in a game. earn upgrades that make you stronger (in this case chroma). to face greater threats. thats why frames aquired harder and later in game are usually more unique in some woy or another. ever thought about that oberon is so mediocre because he is the easiest frame to aquire? so are frame that is harder to aquire should stand out in some way. and chroma was the heavy hitter in this game. now since DE removed that he needs somethign else that makes him unique. otherwise he is just an oberon that is hard to aquire.

[CoreXCZ]

Il y a 1 heure, DeadlyCreation a dit :

are your really trying to make somethign good out of its effigy? its the worst ultimate in game. it literally can kill level 20 enemies at best. and for that you can just take equinox and kill everythign with his initial slash procs.

Lvl 20 enemies, really? I have different experience but what does it matter? As with all others that came and cried when frame got nerfed or in this case fixed, there's no meaning to continue this discussion since this crying comes from people completely unable to think creatively. I will say it even through it's waste of effort, Chroma can do something at two places at once with Effigy, people just don't realize it and thus never had need to actually do deeper thinking and exploration when it comes to possibilities.

So yeah, Chroma got fixed, life goes on and changes as well. Crying because something changes is same as crying in front of grave, it have no meaning. This is not end of Chroma, you know? It can get buffed again, it can get fixed or nerfed again, it's just that whenever something gets too good and gets knocked down, madmans always appear, it's cycle of life.

Edited February 12, 2018 by CoreXCZ

[Walkampf]

vor 21 Minuten schrieb DeadlyCreation:

yes because they didnt fix it in 3 years. they said they know it but they leave it for chroma because it was his identity

You know, this is the reson i make fun of you, i already linked you the official patchnoted regarding a certain Hotfix from the Octavias Anthem batch during April last year, in which a DE official literalls spelled out, that the mathematical error in Chromas Vexarmor will be addressed in the future.

You really need me to make a comment about your attention span?

vor 21 Minuten schrieb DeadlyCreation:

and yes thats the whole reason of game progression. you progress in a game. earn upgrades that make you stronger (in this case chroma). to face greater threats. thats why frames aquired harder and later in game are usually more unique in some woy or another. ever thought about that oberon is so mediocre because he is the easiest frame to aquire? so are frame that is harder to aquire should stand out in some way. and chroma was the heavy hitter in this game. 

As somebody who currently main Oberon that is either insulting or simply laughable.

Did you ever hear of the concept of sidegrade? It's mentality is basically the exact opposit of an upgrade. It's to give the player more options. The concept of sidegrades is a really big deal in multiplayer games. You know, balancing...

vor 21 Minuten schrieb DeadlyCreation:

now since DE removed that he needs somethign else that makes him unique. otherwise he is just an oberon that is hard to aquire.

Again with the 'uniqueness'.

Let me ask you directly, whould you still argue for Vexarmor to be unique, when the resulting Armor was lower than other Warframes, instead of being massivly higher, as it was pre-patch?

No, you whouldn't!

And you know why?

Because you are a simply lying. You don't care for things that are unique, you want to be able to switch to an obsectivly stronger Warframe in order to feel smug at all those poor little Oberons you have to pull through those oh so hard missions.

You are simply a liar, and a bad one at that...

 

You know, this issue goes even further than you lying. Earlier you complained how Chroma has no ability to regenerate HP and yet you belittle people who use Oberon, a character who could fix your issue with Chroma.

Yet you completly ignore the fact that Warframe is a teambased game because your your massive ego that you oh so carefully used to be stroking by using Chromas stronger than intended stats.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Walkampf

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Walkampf:

You know, this is the reson i make fun of you, i already linked you the official patchnoted regarding a certain Hotfix from the Octavias Anthem batch during April last year, in which a DE official literalls spelled out, that the mathematical error in Chromas Vexarmor will be addressed in the future.

You really need me to make a comment about your attention span?

As somebody who currently main Oberon that is either insulting or simply laughable.

Did you ever hear of the concept of sidegrade? It's mentality is basically the exact opposit of an upgrade. It's to give the player more options. The concept of sidegrades is a really big deal in multiplayer games. You know, balancing...

Again with the 'uniqueness'.

Let me ask you directly, whould you still argue for Vexarmor to be unique, when the resulting Armor was lower than other Warframes, instead of being massivly higher, as it was pre-patch?

No, you whouldn't!

And you know why?

Because you are a simply lying. You don't care for things that are unique, you want to be able to switch to an obsectivly stronger Warframe in order to feel smug at all those poor little Oberons you have to pull through those oh so hard missions.

You are simply a liar, and a bad one at that...

didnt mean to insult any oberon players. btw oberon is currently tankier than chroma.

 

and no i dont mind if vex armor stayes like this. but give this frame somethign else to protect or make special. because right now his buff is worse than rhinos and rhino still has awesome cc and a charge that makes him invulnerble.  chroma is basically rhino 0.5 atm.

[LightningsVengance]

On 2/10/2018 at 7:43 AM, Trichouette said:

I think it's fine.

He didn't lose THAT MUCH tankyness and people are making a mess about not such a big issue.

Chroma was overkill, you didn't need to be that tanky in order to do anything.

 

(yes iknow ive been ninja'd) Gotta admit though, it was nice knowing you coul take a face punch from her

[Walkampf]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb DeadlyCreation:

and no i dont mind if vex armor stayes like this. but give this frame somethign else to protect or make special. because right now his buff is worse than rhinos and rhino still has awesome cc and a charge that makes him invulnerble.  chroma is basically rhino 0.5 atm.

Dear lord... just stop pretending you want something to make Chroma 'special'.

You want something to make him stronger. You don't care about uniqueness, you care only about flat out higher numbers.

That's why you want Vexarmor, one of the most boring abilities in the game to become unreasonable strong.

You know why Vex armor is boring? What does it do? Increase some stats. The only active part of the ability consists of standing still and getting hit by enemies in order to increase your stats.

I can't think of a single Warframe, that has no such ability.

It's literally the most boring way to work for an ability that is possible and here you claim, that increasing some numbers makes him unique. xD

Want me to blow your mind? Every Warframe can equip socalled mods. Some of those mods increase Armor, just like Vexarmor does. And literally every Warframe can use it.

So yeah, reaaaaly unique Ability you have there.

 

As is said before,

you are a flat out liar.

You don't care for uniqueness in Chroma, you cared for his ability to get objectivly higher basestats than other players.

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb Walkampf:

Dear lord... just stop pretending you want something to make Chroma 'special'.

You want something to make him stronger. You don't care about uniqueness, you care only about flat out higher numbers.

That's why you want Vexarmor, one of the most boring abilities in the game to become unreasonable strong.

You know why Vex armor is boring? What does it do? Increase some stats. The only active part of the ability consists of standing still and getting hit by enemies in order to increase your stats.

I can't think of a single Warframe, that has no such ability.

It's literally the most boring way to work for an ability that is possible and here you claim, that increasing some numbers makes him unique. xD

Want me to blow your mind? Every Warframe can equip socalled mods. Some of those mods increase Armor, just like Vexarmor does. And literally every Warframe can use it.

So yeah, reaaaaly unique Ability you have there.

 

As is said before,

you are a flat out liar.

You don't care for uniqueness in Chroma, you cared for his ability to get objectivly higher basestats than other players.

omg. you dont get it. every frame has something to make him stand out. chroma doesnt have that. thats the only thing i am missing. 

a reason to play frame. because right now he is just a worse version of other frames.

[IceColdHawk]

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Walkampf:

Here is the thing, the math right now works as intended.

Oof. I guess...

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

5487 x 5.98 = 12078 ??? Yeah, surely working as intended. Who doesn't love to get cheated by their own ability screen?

Meanwhile,

Spoiler

^+149% Mhm, sure. Every warframe uses "the same formular". Is this the week of spreading misinformation?

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Walkampf:

Other Waframes use the same formulas. How come players of those Warframe are not flooding the forum with post that those warframe need to be buffed?

It's only Chroma players that are not able to use the same formulas as every other player...

As every other player? Same formular? Do you actually play the game or just blindly listen to what the Devs have written?

Rhino's Roar, Mirage's Eclipse, Mirage's Hall of Mirrors, Ivara's Navigator, Ivara's Prowl, Volt's Electric Shield, Chroma's Old Vex Armor, Saryn's Toxic Lash, Nova AMD and MPrime and Banshee's Sonar all go off of fully modded damage.

The only frames i can remember that use the same formular as chromas new vex armor are Mesa's Shooting Gallery and Octavia's AMP. You don't hear threads about buffing these frames because they're already very useful and good. But chroma does do pretty much NOTHING other than tank and deal damage. And both things that he does, other frames can do better. He simply has no reason to be played anymore. Be it a buffer or a berserker, he just doesn't cut it anymore thanks to nonsense formular.

But i must say. For someone who's playing the big man, throwing insults at other players and telling them to git gud and learn how to chroma, you seem to severely lack knowledge. Please test and think before you're acting big instead of just sticking your fingers in ears and go "Blablabla devs said so, so it's right" to prevent further embarassment. Peace out my friend.

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 36 Minuten schrieb IceColdHawk:

Oof. I guess...

  Inhalt unsichtbar machen

 

  Inhalt unsichtbar machen

5487 x 5.98 = 12078 ??? Yeah, surely working as intended. Who doesn't love to get cheated by their own ability screen?

Meanwhile,

  Inhalt unsichtbar machen

^+149% Mhm, sure. Every warframe uses "the same formular". Is this the week of spreading misinformation?

As every other player? Same formular? Do you actually play the game or just blindly listen to what the Devs have written?

Rhino's Roar, Mirage's Eclipse, Mirage's Hall of Mirrors, Ivara's Navigator, Ivara's Prowl, Volt's Electric Shield, Chroma's Old Vex Armor, Saryn's Toxic Lash, Nova AMD and MPrime and Banshee's Sonar all go off of fully modded damage.

The only frames i can remember that use the same formular as chromas new vex armor are Mesa's Shooting Gallery and Octavia's AMP. You don't hear threads about buffing these frames because they're already very useful and good. But chroma does do pretty much NOTHING other than tank and deal damage. And both things that he does, other frames can do better. He simply has no reason to be played anymore. Be it a buffer or a berserker, he just doesn't cut it anymore thanks to nonsense formular.

But i must say. For someone who's playing the big man, throwing insults at other players and telling them to git gud and learn how to chroma, you seem to severely lack knowledge. Please test and think before you're acting big instead of just sticking your fingers in ears and go "Blablabla devs said so, so it's right" to prevent further embarassment. Peace out my friend.

yeah on octavia this formula works because her ability scales infinitly. if chroma would get the same treatment. oh i would be so happy. but it pribably wont aka chroma needs a buff of somesort

Edited February 12, 2018 by DeadlyCreation

[(XBOX)AntiCaesar]

7 minutes ago, DeadlyCreation said:

yeah on octavia this formula works because her ability scales infinitly. if chroma would get the same treatment. oh i would be so happy. but it pribably wont aka chroma needs a buff of somesort

This this this

[Kalvorax]

14 minutes ago, DeadlyCreation said:

yeah on octavia this formula works because her ability scales infinitly.

her 1 and 2 scale...her 3 and 4 do not....thus her damage does not scale...its the ENEMY damage to 1 and 2 that make it crazy....something chroma can no longer do

Edited February 12, 2018 by Kalvorax

[Gandergear]

Chroma is better than before from my experience using him on the new eidolons, now that everyone gets the buffs he dishes out the limbs still go down in the same amount of time, and saving your vex buff is really nice as well.

[S0V3REiGN]

I spent a crap ton of hours playing chroma yesterday using all sorts of builds from high range, to fire, electric, ice etc. Sorry, plainly put chroma sucks now, there is not one thing that he does particularly well that other Warframes don’t outright put him to shame in. I can understand the whole one shotting high level enemies but they just outright gutted him all around. He can’t take damage like a real tank, his buffs are laughable compared to other Warframes and his built in CC is the definition of mediocrity. The energy cost of running Effigy is a complete joke too, mind you, this is with me removing blind rage. A full rework should be on the books or a least a buff.

Edited February 12, 2018 by S0V3REiGN

[Trichouette]

Il y a 5 heures, ArchPhaeton a dit :

People like to put things like DE has to balance around a player soloing a lv200 eximus defense.

"aw no I can no longer do solo survival up to lvl 1k"

Players tend to think the game is supposed to go that far even though it's hardly balanced to lvl 100.

[IceColdHawk]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Trichouette:

Players tend to think the game is supposed to go that far even though it's hardly balanced to lvl 100.

That's why DE keeps adding scaling abilities such as now Gara's ult, right?

And stop strawmanning the chroma debate. People want chroma to have a use, perhaps be the berserker that he once was. And it does NOT mean "Hurr i wanna survive till 1k". 1 and 4 useless whilst 2 and 3 are nothing out of the ordinary - way better options out there.

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb Trichouette:

"aw no I can no longer do solo survival up to lvl 1k"

Players tend to think the game is supposed to go that far even though it's hardly balanced to lvl 100.

still chroma has currently no place. in comparison to rhino, he tanks less and gets stredded by level 100 and buffs less. especially when u acount that rhino buffs abilities aswell. 

[S0V3REiGN]

DE has been pushing power creep with each new update, with each new prime access. DE does not give a crap about damage balance (rivens lol), the only thing they care about is making sure that you are not overly effective at farming in this game. Chroma only became a problem because he was too good at killing Eidolons.

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb S0V3REiGN:

DE has been pushing power creep with each new update, with each new prime access. DE does not give a crap about damage balance (rivens lol), the only thing they care about is making sure that you are not overly effective at farming in this game. Chroma only became a problem because he was too good at killing Eidolons.

true words. but why had his tankyness to suffer? that doesnt allow him to kill eidolons any faster

[S0V3REiGN]

13 minutes ago, DeadlyCreation said:

true words. but why had his tankyness to suffer? that doesnt allow him to kill eidolons any faster

They just didn’t test him enough, you notice how many weapons and Warframes were changed and their rework of damage types?  They probably ran some math on the changes, made sure it didn’t crash the game and didn’t spend any serious amount of time playing him to say “yeah, he is in great place now!” Like anything else they figured they were going to comeback to him later. You know, to sell his prime access. Lol

Edited February 12, 2018 by S0V3REiGN

[DeadlyCreation]

vor 10 Minuten schrieb S0V3REiGN:

They just didn’t test him enough, you notice how many weapons and Warframes were changed and their rework of damage types?  They probably ran some math on the changes, made sure it didn’t crash the game and didn’t spend any serious amount of time playing him to say “yeah, he is in great place now!” Like anything else they figured they were going to comeback to him later. You know, to sell his prime access. Lol

maybe. but this rushed fix doesnt seem to be balanced either. his vex armor underperformes in comperison with other buff abilities and his survivability is worse than that of rhinos. and chroma has nothign else in his kit atm. seems like DE didnt test chroma back in the day and didnt test him now. he needs something to give a reason to play him. seriously. he is hard to craft. i bet a bunch of players will now gif a f*ck about building him because they allready have rhino being way better at everything atm.

 

and yes the last bit you said is probably right. they will revisit him for prime acces, make him strong again to sell him.

[Guest]

Spectral scream needs to no longer be channeled, as it ties you up and wastes a TON of energy for not much return on investment.  If it were a snap cast that launched a rapid-fire series of arca-plasmor-like projectiles, it could behave way better than a crappy pocket ignis.  An added effect could be to leave behind elemental patches on the ground that have persistent effects, like Nightwatch Napalm, Mutalyst Moa spooge puddles, and Caustacyst trails.  Micro-CC effects like stuns, slows, and panics, as well as damage effects like gas / corrosive / electric / fire procs could be tied to the effects for a lot of utility that's interesting and fun to use. 

Elemental ward needs it's base range buffed to match Vex Armors aura range.  Currently fire ward is the best tanking element, while ice ward is now garbage that's redundant with vex (they literally have the same calculation, with a different base value).  The offensive aspects of ward have improved a bit with the shift towards more range in his build, but the effects are still not very exciting overall, as they're basically passive.  Bottom line: it's boring to use.

Vex is garbage now.  Either buff his base armor up a lot (would leave fire as the EHP king and ice as trash still), or return the multiplicative bonus, minus bugs.   It only buffs weapons, has crap range, and must be recast continuously to maintain.  The buff costs too much and provides too little to feel rewarding.

Effigy still has anti-synergy with his kit.  It halves his already nerfed EHP and provides inconsistent CC and non-scaling dmg.  With reduced duration in his builds, it's now way too expensive to maintain for any length of time.

[Darkmoone1]

Can we also add the possibility of 100% status chance buff for Spectral Scream to the OP? I feel like it should be a possibility for Spectral Scream to lock down and disable enemies while dealing elemental damage. The idea of always rolling for a chance to do CC while your literally shooting an element out of your warframe never sat well for me. This would make Chroma a much better Utility/Tanky warframe