Mesa is Boring: Abilities Too Generic

[Raspberry]

I'm fine with Mesa acquisition being a little grindy. I'm fine with Mesa being very strong because she's not easy to acquire. What I'm sort of not fine with, though, is just how generic and uninspired her kit is. For a gunslinger, not a lot of her abilities have anything to do with her trademark Regulators, which is very much a problem! In comparison, our favorite archer Ivara has two abilities centered around her Artemis bow (her 1 and 4), and even her 2 is unique and basically just a better version of Mesa's 1.

• I think we can all agree that Mesa's 1 is bad not just because of the damage cap but also because of how drastically different it is from the rest of Mesa's kit. A Warframe's 1 should always be a solid introduction to the rest of their kit, and storing damage until you unleash it in one shot is quite the process, unlike the quickness of the rest of Mesa's abilities.
• Mesa's 2 is probably the second worst buffing ability in the game (absolute worst being Titania's 2), not just because of the multiplier but because of the fact that you have no say in which teammate(s) get the buff. Unpredictable buffs are never good design for support roles, and this goes to show how poor of a support Mesa is.
• Mesa's 3 is solid in performance but uninspired and very uncreative. There's literally no interaction with it except just pressing 3 to get damage resist. which is thematically very off. It's like the devs gave Mesa a part of Gara because they literally had run out of ideas (I know, Gara's a much newer warframe than Mesa is, but it feels this way), so they threw in an ability that they know just works. Abilities that work are fine, but they shouldn't feel like they kinda belong to a different frame.
• Mesa's 4, therefore, is the only ability that I have any real fun with, but only sometimes. The Regulators are quite fun to use when demolishing crowds of high level enemies, but for all intents and purposes, the initial wide-angle of the aimbot is practically overkill for most of the game. I feel like channeled abilities should actually be channeled for quite a period of time, but when enemies die too fast, I just end up tediously toggling on and off to save up my energy. I don't believe that Peacemaker should be buffed or nerfed in terms of damage capability, but I feel like it should get more reason to be a channeled ability like Titania's Razorwing that favors extended use instead of a weird channeled version of Oberon's Reckoning that will almost always be used in short bursts if you're not camping.

Although I have no direct solutions, I do have some ideas that can help towards building a more fun kit for Mesa without compromising the dangerousness that she possesses.

• Mesa's 1 should make use of her Regulator pistols in some way. Currently, they're only used for her 4, which is a waste of a component that's always visible on her! Harrow on the other hand is aesthetically and thematically pleasing because his iconic Thurible is used in all of his abilities. Mesa doesn't have to go anywhere near that far, but if one of the current Mesa's abilities were to be taken out and fully reworked, I'd say this one.
• Mesa's 2 should make up its mind: should it dedicatedly buff Mesa only, or should it buff any ally of Mesa's own choosing (plus Mesa herself on a self-cast)? Maybe it could take some ideas from Nidus' Parasitic Link because that ability is not only a much better buff but is also much more interactive and in control.
• Mesa's 3 should still be something defensive, but it needs a better tie-in with Mesa's gunslinger theme and just ditch the glassiness of what it is now.
• Mesa's 4 is one of the very last campy self-casted abilities in the game (the only other one I can think of is Banshee's Sound Quake). Every other campy ability is "deployed", like Tentacle Swarm or Snow Globe. Mesa should stay mobile in some way, and if for balance's sake the aimbot loses FOV or distance, I'm personally okay with it (though I'll make it clear that it's not the only solution). And at least for the time being, if Peacemaker is cast while in mid-air, maybe not make Mesa suddenly go into a standing stance? Animation (or lack thereof) looks awkward when she lands on the ground like a plastic toy soldier figure.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Raspberri
fixing awkwardly worded areas

[GinKenshin]

you got a lot of stuff wrong about her 2:

1- it was never meant to be a buff ability, it's more for CC 

2- there's one of mesa for the whole duration and one that cycles between the 3 teammates, so there's 2 buffs, not one.....with enough range, this could shut down intire rooms 

everything else I agree with. for her 1st I think the concept is ok but it has a lot of limitations 

[Raspberry]

Just now, GinKenshin said:

you got a lot of stuff wrong about her 2:

1- it was never meant to be a buff ability, it's more for CC 

2- there's one of mesa for the whole duration and one that cycles between the 3 teammates, so there's 2 buffs, not one.....with enough range, this could shut down intire rooms 

everything else I agree with. for her 1st I think the concept is ok but it has a lot of limitations 

It's a fairly mild form of CC. And to be honest, for almost all the content I play, any enemy that's close enough to be whipped by the energy lasso doesn't have their gun jammed for long because Mesa's 4 would finish them off. On the other hand, building for +range on Mesa is just overkill for lower levels (enemies die too fast for it to be useful) and equates to lost DPS at higher levels (enemies don't die fast enough for it to be useful because Peacemaker targets randomly for every shot instead of focusing on one target at a time). I personally don't recommend adding range mods to Mesa.

[Vryheid]

My biggest issue with Mesa's kit is that they don't do a good job making her gameplay feel like a gunslinger. I like the idea of a high risk/high reward side shootin' cowboy with some theme appropriate utility skills, but what we got was a frame who's effectively a high damage immobile turret with very little skill or interactivity required. Her 1 is subpar, her 2 and 3 are buff skills which are nothing but buffs on annoying timers that you have to refresh every so often, and her 4 is just... well, it trivializes a whole lot of content if you build for it properly, but since you do nothing but hold down the mouse and vaguely aim in the direction of enemies it gets pretty boring to use after a while. See McCree's ultimate in Overwatch for an example of what an autoaim sidearm skill maybe aught to look like- there's thought and risk involved in using it and thus the reward feels a lot more satisfying.

[GinKenshin]

2 minutes ago, Vryheid said:

My biggest issue with Mesa's kit is that they don't do a good job making her gameplay feel like a gunslinger. I like the idea of a high risk/high reward side shootin' cowboy with some theme appropriate utility skills, but what we got was a frame who's effectively a high damage immobile turret with very little skill or interactivity required. Her 1 is subpar, her 2 and 3 are buff skills which are nothing but buffs on annoying timers that you have to refresh every so often, and her 4 is just... well, it trivializes a whole lot of content if you build for it properly, but since you do nothing but hold down the mouse and vaguely aim in the direction of enemies it gets pretty boring to use after a while. See McCree's ultimate in Overwatch for an example of what an autoaim sidearm skill maybe aught to look like- there's thought and risk involved in using it and thus the reward feels a lot more satisfying.

I have to disagree with that 

her skill pushes her gun combat. her 2 basically makes your enemies sitting ducks for you to shoot at while also protecting you from melee enemies. her 3 makes you take way less dmg from ranged enemies, thus you don't need to worry about getting hit, but rather keep on shooting. her 4th is the cherry on top, with it's badass animations, amazing sound quality...etc

also, she's not a turret, that's just a specific gameplay for lazy dudes

basically, when you wanna shoot guns and have fun, you don't really need to worry about abilities and such, that's why I feel like the 'timer' abilities work on mesa, because it enhances her theme, unlike mirage for example. you don't wanna give a f*ck, you just shoot....that's what she's about

 

 

9 minutes ago, Raspberri said:

It's a fairly mild form of CC. And to be honest, for almost all the content I play, any enemy that's close enough to be whipped by the energy lasso doesn't have their gun jammed for long because Mesa's 4 would finish them off. On the other hand, building for +range on Mesa is just overkill for lower levels (enemies die too fast for it to be useful) and equates to lost DPS at higher levels (enemies don't die fast enough for it to be useful because Peacemaker targets randomly for every shot instead of focusing on one target at a time). I personally don't recommend adding range mods to Mesa.

personally I run with 97% range, close to 100% and it still feels awesome. I can disable enemies 15-20m away...even with little range she's still awesome....also you don't really need to focus too much on strength, just make sure you get max reduction on her 3rd....her 4th does a lot of dmg anyhow 

and it's more than a 'mild' cc >___> 

also for her 1st, how about innate life steal? since her only weakness is slash/toxin procs, so her 1 can be a great counter to those 

[Xolgys]

this is how u get good warframes ruined imo. all of her abilities are very good at what they do except for her 1. her 1 is a gimmicky ability but not even worth the energy. this is legit the only ability really requiring a change. all other abilities of hers are abo@#&*ely fine and strong as they are. its actually quite good that her shatter shield is defensive and her shooting gallery not too strong because of how good her peacemakers are. if both of these were stronger she wouldnt just buff her teammates more and be even more durable, she would also dish more dmg with her already strong peacemaker due to the selfbuff.

her 1 needs to be adressed for sure though. a single target ability is fine if done right to not make her even more aoe dps heavy.

personally i would like to see something like this: 25 energy -> mesa supercharges her next shot from her currently equipped primary or secondary weapon. her next shot will deal 150% damage in a straight line (unlimited punch through vs enemies, not vs environment or object based health) and ignore enemy armor.

greetings

[Me.KayOh]

I feel like everyone is forgetting that her 1 can be used with her ult. >.> Also OP has almost everything incorrect. RIP

Edited February 10, 2018 by Church002

[Raspberry]

15 minutes ago, Vryheid said:

My biggest issue with Mesa's kit is that they don't do a good job making her gameplay feel like a gunslinger. I like the idea of a high risk/high reward side shootin' cowboy with some theme appropriate utility skills, but what we got was a frame who's effectively a high damage immobile turret with very little skill or interactivity required. Her 1 is subpar, her 2 and 3 are buff skills which are nothing but buffs on annoying timers that you have to refresh every so often, and her 4 is just... well, it trivializes a whole lot of content if you build for it properly, but since you do nothing but hold down the mouse and vaguely aim in the direction of enemies it gets pretty boring to use after a while. See McCree's ultimate in Overwatch for an example of what an autoaim sidearm skill maybe aught to look like- there's thought and risk involved in using it and thus the reward feels a lot more satisfying.

This is almost exactly my opinion. Most of her doesn't feel gunslinger-like, and the one ability where it does? It's so automated when used for 90% of the game. The remaining 10%? You wish you had the mobility to avoid toxic/swarm nukes or energy leech auras.

[LSG501]

We haven't even had a day to fully digest the latest reworks and we're already getting 'suggestions' to fix frames that don't really need fixing.  Yes her 1 is rather annoying/useless/situational (can't even remember the last time I used it) but if we let DE change that the odds are they'll change something else and it could end up like volt where 'removing the cap', a supposed buff, on discharge came with damage and duration fall off which in turn actually made the ability worse than it was with the cap on it...

All in all Mesa is in a pretty good place imo so lets leave here where she is so she stays in a pretty good place. 

Edited February 10, 2018 by LSG501

[Raspberry]

1 minute ago, LSG501 said:

All in all Mesa is in a pretty good place imo so lets leave here where she is so she stays in a pretty good place. 

For what she does, she's in a mostly satisfactory tier of DPS power. For how she does the killing, it's extremely boring.

[Kalvorax]

5 minutes ago, Church002 said:

I feel like everyone is forgetting that her 1 can be used with her ult. >.>

for a single shot? THAT is what her 1 is bad about.

[LSG501]

1 minute ago, Raspberri said:

For what she does, she's in a mostly satisfactory tier of DPS power. For how she does the killing, it's extremely boring.

it might be boring to you but for many of us it's actually quite satisfying watching her gun down all the enemies in quick succession like a gun slinger would. 

And how exactly would you change her 4, you can't exactly change it to something where we need to target each enemy as it will just end up like ash bladestorm and that can cause issues for some so no thank you to that one.  As it is now works fine, it might be boring for some but it is thematically correct and allows her to do what she needs to do. 

[Raspberry]

9 minutes ago, Xydeth said:

this is how u get good warframes ruined imo. all of her abilities are very good at what they do except for her 1. her 1 is a gimmicky ability but not even worth the energy. this is legit the only ability really requiring a change. all other abilities of hers are abo@#&*ely fine and strong as they are. its actually quite good that her shatter shield is defensive and her shooting gallery not too strong because of how good her peacemakers are. if both of these were stronger she wouldnt just buff her teammates more and be even more durable, she would also dish more dmg with her already strong peacemaker due to the selfbuff.

her 1 needs to be adressed for sure though. a single target ability is fine if done right to not make her even more aoe dps heavy.

personally i would like to see something like this: 25 energy -> mesa supercharges her next shot from her currently equipped primary or secondary weapon. her next shot will deal 150% damage in a straight line (unlimited punch through vs enemies, not vs environment or object based health) and ignore enemy armor.

greetings

I'm definitely trying to tread carefully, which is why I made no full ability replacement suggestions.

[Thundervision]

Mesa's Ballistic Battery can be good if it would've worked similar to Equinox' M&M:

Must have: one-handed animation, can be casted on the move

• Converts your damage into ability's storage and once it reaches 100%, activating it again will make every your successful shot deal extra damage at the cost of consuming a portion of storage damage (so, extra damage as long as you have something left in the ability's storage). The higher % remains the greater its output extra damage (say, at 50% it will deal only 50% of the accumulated storage damage).

Also, if having Shattered Shield active during both phases of BB, every enemy's successful hit will contribute to Ballistic Battery's accumulated damage and every deflected shot will be buffed from BB's storage;

or just contributing enemies' hits to storage during accumulating phase w/o buffing deflected shots.