why not universal vacuum

[ljmadruga]

2 hours ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

Then almost no one will use sentinels.

Here’s the thing though, all of the companions with a couple of exceptions do unique things. Also, there’s benefits to using either.

Sentinels

- Can revive the player multiple times.

- Can restore health and shields

- Carrier helps a LOT with ammo hungry weapons.

- Helios completes the codex for you and can boost your dps.

- Wyrm provides good CC for enemies that get too close

- Taxon can give you a ton of shields

- Dirigia stuns targets in place and has the highest range of any companion

 

Kubrows + Kavats

- Have better offensive potential

- Have higher survivability potential

- The Raksa Kubrow provides some nice cc for Interception missions

- Sahasa is nice for energy and ammo when enemies are not around.

- Sunika does some spicy damage when they decide to attack

- Kavats have a LOT of buffs attached to them that I just don’t care to list

 

In the case of Chesa vs. Shade, it would encourage player choice because Chesa has a higher range invis, but requires higher maintenance. Shade on the other hand doesn’t require any maintenance at all

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

1 minute ago, ljmadruga said:

Here’s the thing though, all of the companions with a couple of exceptions do unique things. Also, there’s benefits to using either.

Sentinels

- Can revive the player multiple times.

- Can restore health and shields

- Carrier helps a LOT with ammo hungry weapons.

- Helios completes the codex for you and can boost your dps.

- Wyrm provides good CC for enemies that get too close

- Taxon can give you a ton of shields

- Dirigia stuns targets in place and has the highest range of any companion

 

Kubrows + Kavats

- Have better offensive potential

- Have higher survivability potential

- The Raksa Kubrow provides some nice cc for Interception missions

- Sahasa is nice for energy and ammo when enemies are not around.

- Sunika does some spicy damage when they decide to attack

- Kavats have a LOT of buffs attached to them that I just don’t care to list

 

In the case of Chesa vs. Shade, it would encourage player choice because Chesa has a higher range invis, but requires higher maintenance. Shade on the other hand doesn’t require any maintenance at all

 +1

[Vox-Lunaris]

il y a 5 minutes, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 a dit :

View as twisting if you can’t handle another persons opinion.

Yes. Unlike you however I don’t act like my opinion is gospel.

You gave evidence that Carrier was the most popular sentinel before Vacuum got spread. 

That does not show that people will completely abandon the Sentinel pet type when vacuum goes universal. Please learn the difference.

My god, i wanted not to come back but you never stop the dirty ways, do you?

I clearly showed where you twisted my words more than once. 

I am the one that gave more arguments, so you're the one closer to thinking his words is gospel.

Thank you for ignoring everything i said and just looking at Carrier's chart, yes, that's aaaaall i gave.

That shows how much vacuum affects companions choice if you compare it to the usage after the change. And from that data you can predict the change after giving it to pets.

il y a 1 minute, ljmadruga a dit :

Here’s the thing though, all of the companions with a couple of exceptions do unique things. Also, there’s benefits to using either.

Sentinels

- Can revive the player multiple times.

- Can restore health and shields

- Carrier helps a LOT with ammo hungry weapons.

- Helios completes the codex for you and can boost your dps.

- Wyrm provides good CC for enemies that get too close

- Taxon can give you a ton of shields

- Dirigia stuns targets in place and has the highest range of any companion

 

Kubrows + Kavats

- Have better offensive potential

- Have higher survivability potential

- The Raksa Kubrow provides some nice cc for Interception missions

- Sahasa is nice for energy and ammo when enemies are not around.

- Sunika does some spicy damage when they decide to attack

- Kavats have a LOT of buffs attached to them that I just don’t care to list

 

In the case of Chesa vs. Shade, it would encourage player choice because Chesa has a higher range invis, but requires higher maintenance. Shade on the other hand doesn’t require any maintenance at all

There, that's how you @(*()$ discuss things. With clear points and proofs. THANK YOU SIR.

Maybe it's cause i'm somewhat of a vet, but those sentinel abilities are mostly useless. The revive might be useful in solo but i never got down to half of my lives. Shield restore is useful for some frames like harrow and chroma but shields are useless in most cases, yes. Health, like i mentioned before, Hunter recovery is better. Helios is good for not wasting time on codex which also means his utility is limited although there is that cephalon simaris mod "detect vulnerability". As for CC, it's too weak and has long cooldown and situational because of its conditions. 

And that's why i still think pets will dominate the companions usage if they had vacuum.

[Jarriaga]

20 hours ago, (PS4)tissot555 said:

So I'm asking myself, why not universal vacuum?

Because unlike the accessory packs, there's a 50/50 split across people who want UV and people who don't.

[ljmadruga]

3 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

My god, i wanted not to come back but you never stop the dirty ways, do you?

I clearly showed where you twisted my words more than once. 

I am the one that gave more arguments, so you're the one closer to thinking his words is gospel.

Thank you for ignoring everything i said and just looking at Carrier's chart, yes, that's aaaaall i gave.

That shows how much vacuum affects companions choice if you compare it to the usage after the change. And from that data you can predict the change after giving it to pets.

There, that's how you @(*()$ discuss things. With clear points and proofs. THANK YOU SIR.

Maybe it's cause i'm somewhat of a vet, but those sentinel abilities are mostly useless. The revive might be useful in solo but i never got down to half of my lives. Shield restore is useful for some frames like harrow and chroma but shields are useless in most cases, yes. Health, like i mentioned before, Hunter recovery is better. Helios is good for not wasting time on codex which also means his utility is limited although there is that cephalon simaris mod "detect vulnerability". As for CC, it's too weak and has long cooldown and situational because of its conditions. 

And that's why i still think pets will dominate the companions usage if they had vacuum.

Also sentinels are always with the player. Any other companion has the potential to run off into a crowd where they can’t be revived in higher levels.

[Atekron]

20 hours ago, Miser_able said:

Probably because not everyone wants it.

Pretty much everyone wanted prime access accessory packs. 

OMG! why just not make it an option in game menu, if you want to be "hardcore" just turn it off

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

2 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

god, i wanted not to come back but you never stop the dirty ways, do you?

“I didn’t want to come back, but actually I did”

Classic.

3 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

I clearly showed where you twisted my words more than once. 

No you didn’t. I never twisted anything. You are simply viewing my opinion as “twist”.

3 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

I am the one that gave more arguments, so you're the one closer to thinking his words is gospel.

Angry, sarcastic mocking posts are not proper arguments. 

I’m not the one who said “almost everyone will abandon Sentinels”. You are the one thinking his word is law.

5 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

Thank you for ignoring everything i said and just looking at Carrier's chart, yes, that's aaaaall i gave.

Yes that is all you gave. Like I said, your opinion and sarcastic “Yeeeeeeaaaa right you @&:)&;£&: moron” posts are not evidence.

7 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

And from that data you can predict the change after giving it to pets.

So assumptions then. Sorry but you need something more up-to-date than an old chart. Why don’t you start a survey surrounding this subject? After all, the burden of proof is on you.

8 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

There, that's how you @(*()$ discuss things. With clear points and proofs. THANK YOU SIR.

You really need to calm down. I already showed how Sentinels can be useful, but you just failingly tried to mock it.

10 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

Maybe it's cause i'm somewhat of a vet, but those sentinel abilities are mostly useless.

In your opinion. 

[Vox-Lunaris]

il y a 6 minutes, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 a dit :

“I didn’t want to come back, but actually I did”

Classic.

No you didn’t. I never twisted anything. You are simply viewing my opinion as “twist”.

Angry, sarcastic mocking posts are not proper arguments. 

I’m not the one who said “almost everyone will abandon Sentinels”. You are the one thinking his word is law.

Yes that is all you gave. Like I said, your opinion and sarcastic “Yeeeeeeaaaa right you @&:)&;£&: moron” posts are not evidence.

So assumptions then. Sorry but you need something more up-to-date than an old chart. Why don’t you start a survey surrounding this subject? After all, the burden of proof is on you.

You really need to calm down. I already showed how Sentinels can be useful, but you just failingly tried to mock it.

In your opinion. 

No, i'm MR24 and i started playing on april 2013. So it's facts, not an opinion. Which you could've checked by simple click. As for second parts, i already argued for it unlike your "in your opinion" addition.

I'll tell you what's my opinion though, you're a moron and i should've checked the previous comments that you posted to see where this is going before i decided to answer you. You already ran around in loops wasting everyone's times with other players and they told you that and ofc you did it to me too :D now just stop talking to me.

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Akram-The-Reaper-Panda

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

54 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

No, i'm MR24 and i started playing on april 2013. So it's facts, not an opinion.

I’m MR25 and have been playing since the beginning of console launch xD

Doesn’t mean my opinion’s are solid fact. You seriously need to learn some humility.

54 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

You already ran around in loops wasting everyone's times with other players and they told you

I never wasted your time. You could have chosen not to reply as did the others. They gave very strange reasons as to why having optional universal vacuum is a bad idea and they all never provided a straight answer.

54 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

now just stop talking to me.

I’ll stop when you start providing actual information rather than bitter mockeries.

54 minutes ago, Akram-The-Reaper-Panda said:

I'll tell you what's my opinion though, you're a moron

Well I can’t say I didn’t try to be civil. Hope you enjoy that warning point.

Edited February 19, 2018 by (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01

[Miser_able]

1 hour ago, Atekron said:

OMG! why just not make it an option in game menu, if you want to be "hardcore" just turn it off

OMG! why not just walk more if you want loot

[Guest]

Lol two salty "veterans" arguing over universal vacuum.

All in all I'd support it for Frames, so I can level mastery rank for non sentinels without worry of not vacuuming up all the loot, by using the companions as some nice MR fodder (except maybe the Adarza Kavat which seems useful in Eidolon hunts). I don't like Kubrows anyway, due to their organic aesthetic.

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

35 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

OMG! why not just walk more if you want loot

Because we find it more fun to concentrate on staying alive and not really have to worry about scouting for loot. 

Why do so many people act like that is wrong....

Would it really bother you if an optional univac was introduced?

33 minutes ago, Datam4ss said:

Lol two salty "veterans" arguing over universal vacuum.

I’m not salty at all. I’m just baffled at why so many people seem to have an issue with an optional univac for warframes.

[(XBOX)RPColten]

Honestly I'm against it at this point just out of principle. If loot is so damn important to me, then I'm going to use the tools available (Sentinels) to solve my problem. I'm not going to hope against hope that DE does something to solve it for me.

They already gave you the tools to fix this issue. Use them.

[Miser_able]

47 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Because we find it more fun to concentrate on staying alive and not really have to worry about scouting for loot. 

Why do so many people act like that is wrong....

Would it really bother you if an optional univac was introduced?

I’m not salty at all. I’m just baffled at why so many people seem to have an issue with an optional univac for warframes.

If we didn't have to use sentinels for vac then people would most likely run nothing but smeeta with vac, which imo is overpowered and shouldn't be possible. Vacuum, like all utilities, should be a sacrifice. You should give up extra loot or damage for it. 

[(PSN)zedlanik]

At least we could have vacuum for our pets that would make them more in game 

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

9 hours ago, toxicpanda said:

Honestly I don't see why not. I have yet to see a compelling argument against it. 

The arguement is simple:

 

Universal Vacuum goes completely against the playstyle that DE designs the game around. They see picking up items as part of the challenge and skill needed to play the game. And they created the vacuum/sentinel setup as a balance between ease of use and skill.

Mind you this is the devs intention with vacuum, I am not saying I agree necessarily but IMO that is why they will never contemplate a universal vacuum, or even adding vacuum to Kubrows and Kavats.

This comes completely from how I have seen DE play this game whenever they are streaming, and after 3 years of updates and conversation from them. Many people assume when they stream DE are playing atypically just to show us things. I don't believe that anymore. How you see them play is how they think of the game when they design it. And never in any example of the devs playing the game have they ever used vacuum nor have they ever stopped fighting to run and pickup items directly. People think this is because they have everything and don't need to be bother with that, but I don't think so. I think they typically play so close together and use the mechanics to take advantage of dumb AI that they never have had to chase drops down, they all drop right next to them.  Because DE doesn't design the game for people to play solo when in a 4 person team.

 

Hence exposing the real reason people want a universal vacuum. Because unlike the devs alot of players never believed that this game was a 4 person coop. Alot of player don't even realize that they really have no reason to chase down a mob or break from the group unless there is a glitch or bug in the spawn system. And with vacuum, alot of player think DE allows unfettered unlimited access to consumables in play.

Edited February 19, 2018 by (PS4)HurricaneHugo76

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

52 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

If we didn't have to use sentinels for vac then people would most likely run nothing but smeeta with vac

Can someone please start a survey to back up this wild claim? 

52 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

which imo is overpowered and shouldn't be possible.

Warframes sucking up loot will suddenly make pets OP? What? How does that work?

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

20 minutes ago, (PS4)HurricaneHugo76 said:

Universal Vacuum goes completely against the playstyle that DE designs the game around. They see picking up items as part of the challenge and skill needed to play the game.

Source please? Not your intrepretation of “how they’ve streamed” over the years. A written statement from DE that says the game was built around and that they equate skill with, picking things up off the ground.

If they really did feel like that, Vacuum wouldn’t be a thing in the first place. 

Picking up items means you’re skilled at the game? I’m sorry I can’t take this seriously.

Edited February 19, 2018 by (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01

[Miser_able]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Can someone please start a survey to back up this wild claim? 

Warframes sucking up loot will suddenly make pets OP? What? How does that work?

You don't need a survey to see that this community loves latching on to metas, and without the need to use a sentinel the new meta would be smeeta and its charm, pretty soon people would be wanting universal charm. 

I said that would be OP because we would be able to suck up loot and double all loot (while charms active of course) rather than having to choose between the two. 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Miser_able

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

1 minute ago, Miser_able said:

You don't need a survey to see that this community loves latching on to metas,

So more assumptions. Great.

1 minute ago, Miser_able said:

I said that would be OP because we would be able to suck up loot and double all loot (while charms active of course) rather than having to choose between the two. 

Everyone here is saying “Oh vacuum makes no difference go the extra one metre and pick it up you lazy unskilled pleb”. So does that mean Smeeta is currently OP? 

Hovering up loot (that everyone is saying can be picked up faster by foot) somehow makes Smeeta OP. This reasoning is strange and just looks like another excuse to me.

[Miser_able]

1 minute ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

So more assumptions. Great.

How is that an assumption? Look at what gear have always been used. Tigris series, opticor, galatine, atterax, maiming strike, ev trin, co daggers. The list goes on, and that's just the recent ones. And whenever the meta items gets nerfed people complain for a week then move on to the next meta. It's always been this way, and most likely always will be. 

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

 

12 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

How is that an assumption? Look at what gear have always been used. Tigris series, opticor, galatine, atterax, maiming strike, ev trin, co daggers. The list goes on, and that's just the recent ones. And whenever the meta items gets nerfed people complain for a week then move on to the next meta. It's always been this way, and most likely always will be. 

Like I’ve been saying and what other people have said too; Sentinels offer unique benefits that pets do not and some people don’t even like pets and their upkeep or their sometimes bafflingly silly AI. Compared to the Sentinels which while are less useful for boosting your damage or doubling resources, they require zero upkeep, constantly stick to your shoulder and never go off in the distance and some of them have pretty good CC compared to the pets.

[Miser_able]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

 

Like I’ve been saying and what other people have said too; Sentinels offer unique benefits that pets do not and some people don’t even like pets and their upkeep or their sometimes bafflingly silly AI. Compared to the Sentinels which while are less useful for boosting your damage or doubling resources, they require zero upkeep, constantly stick to your shoulder and never go off in the distance and some of them have pretty good CC compared to the pets.

What upkeep? Cats don't lose affection, and they don't have permadeath anymore. 

[(PSN)HurricaneHugo76]

1 hour ago, (PS4)BLOOD-LINE-01 said:

Source please? Not your intrepretation of “how they’ve streamed” over the years. A written statement from DE that says the game was built around and that they equate skill with, picking things up off the ground.

If they really did feel like that, Vacuum wouldn’t be a thing in the first place. 

Picking up items means you’re skilled at the game? I’m sorry I can’t take this seriously.

Have you ever heard concepts like:

Ammo Health Energy efficiencies?  Almost every guide out there about basic builds cover the fact that frames and weapons have systems which limits the indiscriminate usage of power or weapons. Whole types of mods exist out there to change how much energy powers use, how much ammo you can pickup and what type it is, and even how health/energy orbs can be used. You ever hear of support frames? Why even have utility frames like Trinity or Oberon if the ability to control combat consumables wasn't a factor in the game. Many mistakenly believe Nekros was intentionally design tto farm building mats or rare drops. When in fact he is most effective at farming consumables, ammo and health are the 2 major types of drops he specifically increases.

My other point is think about the relationship between Vacuum and players. Vacuum is an extremely useful utility. It changes the way you play the game. But you have to pay a price for that convenience. You have to create the sentinel and built it in a way that can survive, and it's not capable of being OP. It is the weakest "companion" you have compared to Kubrow and Kavats. This is the price you pay for the ease of use you get from vacuum. And it's specifically designed to not be taken for granted, as your sentinel is rather squishy at higher levels and can't be restored simply or indefinitely(regen gives you one revive, and after that you have to actually die and pay affinity). The biggest complaint people have about sentinels and vacuum is at higher levels it just dies too quickly. That's not a mistake, that's intentonal as DE considered those levels to be the challenge area of the game and the ease of use granted from vacuum shouldn't be taken for granted there.

Also if you have ever read up on the core mechanics of the mission types the majority of them are based upon spawn mechanics, and essentially are geared for the enemies to come to you or to be in predictable and confined locations. Fundementally this means that the devs design the game to not require the use of vacuumif you take advantage of the underlying mechanics and force all the drops to appears together. It's not that hard to do, it's just that it's kinda boring and most people never realized this is a coop shooter and are "hallway heroes."

And one final point about this whole thing. Pads. There are specific energy,ammo,shield, and health dispensing pads in the game. They have a range which makes them effective only when players are closer together and working cooperatively. Meaning, that a 4 man squad with one utility frame and an assortment of consumable pads can play effectively up to the Sortie level of the game without the use of vacuum at all. This is once again a deliberate intent by the devs to encourage cooperative play and to stay together during missions.

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by (PS4)HurricaneHugo76

[(PSN)BLOOD-LINE-01]

3 minutes ago, Miser_able said:

What upkeep? Cats don't lose affection, and they don't have permadeath anymore. 

Health still deteriorates on both dog and cat and while the latter may not require affection, the former does (A hilarious nod at how cats are much less needy than dogs IRL). I’m not saying thats a bad thing. It adds a little more realism for me that I need to actually take care of a pet to keep it alive. But there are people out there who’d rather just use a companion that doesn’t require your attention at all.