Since DE is reworking old stuff can we talk about Channelling?

[Fallen_Echo]

Channelling is an old mechanic what basically lets you use energy to deal more melee damage.

Lets see what are the problems with it:

1. Channelling efficiency is capped at 80%. This means that no matter what you will use up 1 energy per hit at best, what if you use a high reach or big aoe melee will sap you dry fast.

2. The highest chanelling damage multipler on a weapon is currently 80%. This is only avaible on 3 weapons every other has +50% multipler.

This means on the best channelling weapon with the help of a 250% channelling damage riven and all channelling damage mods you have +456% damage total.

Sounds good right? Well it has a riven in it, thats why. Without it you are stuck at +220% bonus, on the best channellers thats +300% damage what can be easily suprassed by the 2 prime damage avaible to melee weapons what means +330% damage, also the latter one is FREE.

Comparing this to status utility or crit damage makes the whole damage aspect laughable.

3.Lack of mods, the wiki couldnt even make the mod list 2 page long.

 

Can this poor sytem finally get looked at? 

Make it consume energy per swing, make more mods for it and add some unique benefit to it not just raw damage.

Please, do something.

[Guest]

Bring back stamina, make stamina the "energy" for channeling (and channeling only)

Also, channeling charge attacks fire sword waves?

[dandin3]

i talk abut it when it came out like 2y+ ago.

channeling mods is usless just life strike is good and the damge aplefay.

with zenurik and the arcane u can make use of  it. nothing els. its almost a usless part of the game and its so sad becuse he can be tweak to be very importent,

hope DE will look after  it. but 2y + nohting done . so will seee

[Walkampf]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb Fallen_Echo:

Make it consume energy per swing,

This idea is simply stupid.

It is heavily biased towards Spin2win weapons like whips (which are already a problem for gameplay).

While leaving fast attacking melees in the dust.

Think things through instead of just making grinding even more mindnumbing.

[Kalvorax]

24 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Make it consume energy per swing,

it does that already when you hit an enemy.....i personally think it should be per kill.

[Fallen_Echo]

2 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

This idea is simply stupid.

It is heavily biased towards Spin2win weapons like whips (which are already a problem for gameplay).

While leaving fast attacking melees in the dust.

Think things through instead of just making grinding even more mindnumbing.

You have another idea? The current variant heavily punishes every melee weapon what can hit multiple targets, tonfas, swords, staffs, nunchakus, all of them.

Well we could go with the consume energy on attack and not consume any energy for some seconds too. This is equally good for all weapon types.

[Walkampf]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Fallen_Echo:

You have another idea? The current variant heavily punishes every melee weapon what can hit multiple targets, tonfas, swords, staffs, nunchakus, all of them.

Well we could go with the consume energy on attack and not consume any energy for some seconds too. This is equally good for all weapon types.

It doesn't punish anyone.

One hit is one hit, no matter what weapon you are using.

1=1

It's the simplest math that is possible. *facepalm*

[Urlan]

Some players have suggested having Channel be a toggle that constantly drains similarly to a toggle ability, the trade-off being that each hit would not drain additional energy. Perhaps if the Melee weapon rework workshop is posted, you could bring up melee channeling suggestions, as its a part of melee for good or ill.

[Fallen_Echo]

58 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

It doesn't punish anyone.

One hit is one hit, no matter what weapon you are using.

1=1

It's the simplest math that is possible. *facepalm*

It does punishes every melee weapon what can attack multiple enemies.

We dont have control over our weapons reach, hell we dont even know the ranges for most of them.

If you go and strike a grineer on a corner only to have 3 of his friends coming there you will lose lots of energy what is especially bad for newer players.

On the swing variant you can go and channel swing as many targets as you can without worrying that it will sap you dry.

On the consume energy on attack variant every weapon has a drain and gets the channel bonus for a fixed duration fair and square.

 

One of the reoccuring reasons this system is not used on threads like this is because they are too expensive to use.

[Walkampf]

 

vor 2 Minuten schrieb Fallen_Echo:

It does punishes every melee weapon what can attack multiple enemies.

vor einer Stunde schrieb Walkampf:

It doesn't punish anyone.

One hit is one hit, no matter what weapon you are using.

1=1

It's the simplest math that is possible. *facepalm*

[(XBOX)RPColten]

3 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

It does punishes every melee weapon what can attack multiple enemies.

We dont have control over our weapons reach, hell we dont even know the ranges for most of them.

If you go and strike a grineer on a corner only to have 3 of his friends coming there you will lose lots of energy what is especially bad for newer players.

You do have control over your weapons reach though. By choosing to use a weapon with high reach, you are controlling what range it has. Don't use weapons with high range if you don't want to have to deal with increased energy costs. High range might be more effective at clearly crowds but it also comes at a cost.

[Walkampf]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb Fallen_Echo:

If you go and strike a grineer on a corner only to have 3 of his friends coming there you will lose lots of energy what is especially bad for newer players.

On the swing variant you can go and channel swing as many targets as you can without worrying that it will sap you dry.

On the consume energy on attack variant every weapon has a drain and gets the channel bonus for a fixed duration fair and square.

 

One of the reoccuring reasons this system is not used on threads like this is because they are too expensive to use.

Oh, just a thought:

Guns use up ammo if a player doesn't hit the target. you will lose lots of ammo what is especially bad for newer players.

On the hit variant you can go and shoot as many walls as you can without worrying that it will sap you dry.

 

One of the reoccuring reasons shooting weapons is not used on threads like this is because they are to expensive to use.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Walkampf

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, (XB1)RPColten said:

You do have control over your weapons reach though. By choosing to use a weapon with high reach, you are controlling what range it has. Don't use weapons with high range if you don't want to have to deal with increased energy costs. High range might be more effective at clearly crowds but it also comes at a cost.

Thats the sheer reason most people dont use this system. In a horde shooter you need weapons what either deal with crowds or deal with single targets fast.

If you have to use less suitable weapon for the reason to use a buff system what is less useable (if can be deemed useable at all) compared to any other build than something is wrong.

[Walkampf]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb Fallen_Echo:

If you have to use less suitable weapon for the reason to use a buff system what is less useable (if can be deemed useable at all) compared to any other build than something is wrong.

OK, at this point you are not even making sense anymore....

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, Walkampf said:

Oh, just a thought:

Guns use up ammo if a player doesn't hit the target. you will lose lots of ammo what is especially bad for newer players.

On the hit variant you can go and shoot as many walls as you can without worrying that it will sap you dry.

 

One of the reoccuring reasons shooting weapons is not used on threads like this is because they are to expensive to use.

First if you really want to use guns and ammo consuption as an argument here let me show you these:

Both weapons shoot enemies and they dont use up ammo or anything to do so. You can shoot at walls till your computer starts to rusts these wont run out of "ammo".

Second, channelling currently does NOT consume energy if you swing and dont hit an enemy so i can freely say the current system in your example works like this.

You have a gun what can shoot freely at anything but only consumes energy when it hits a target.

The swing variant would do the same expect it consumes energy for a swing hit and not for every single target hit.

The attack version is basically a warframe skill. Spend energy and harvest the gains.

[Walkampf]

vor 20 Minuten schrieb Fallen_Echo:

First if you really want to use guns and ammo consuption as an argument here let me show you these:

You know, at this point I'm actually feeling sorry for you...

You didn't even realise that is basically copied your previous statement 

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Fallen_Echo:

It does punishes every melee weapon what can attack multiple enemies.

(...)

One of the reoccuring reasons this system is not used on threads like this is because they are too expensive to use.

and just swapped out a few words in order to show how utterly ridiculous your whole point is...

Here is a well meant advise,

Just stop. You don't realise it, but you are making an utter fool out of yourself.

Edited March 8, 2018 by Walkampf

[Fallen_Echo]

56 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

You know, at this point I'm actually feeling sorry for you...

Thats why the whole statement start with "If" sarcasm doenst work on texts.

57 minutes ago, Walkampf said:

You didn't even realise that is basically copied your previous statement 

and just swapped out a few words in order to show how utterly ridiculous your whole point is...

Here is a well meant advise,

Just stop. You don't realise it, but you are making an utter fool out of yourself.

Edited 50 minutes ago by Walkampf

I in fact just retyped it again in hope that my point finally reaches you.

This system is expensive for too little gain. Its more expensive on weapons what are capatable of attacking more enemies at the same time because it takes energy for every enemy hit, so higher reach means more potential energy wasted for little bonus.

 

But hey my original question is still up there what you didnt answered yet.

4 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

You have another idea?

Come on and instead of debating what you dont like in my go and present something useable.

[(XBOX)Enneamorph]

So. Ignoring the train wreck of malignancy and hate here, I'd like to actually present an idea of mine for channelling. I agree that it definitely needs a rework, or at least fine-tuning. So first and foremost, the idea of having the Energy Drain/Hit is actually well balanced.

Think of it this way.

Let's have a Scoliac vs. a Shaku, huh? One will hit one enemy one time, the other will barrage him. The Scoliac, if not spin2win, and both have standard "anyone can cook (props if you get that)" builds, on a level, I dunno, 40, 50, enemy. The Scoliac will beat the Shaku in terms of efficiency per strike (not HIT, strike). HowEVER, in that one hit, that Scoliac will not have done enough damage to kill that enemy, whereas in the Shaku's case, they were probably already dead by the end of its barrage. Altogether, they take around the same amount of hits/energy to get their point across.

However, if that same Scoliac spun in a room with three guys, it would END those three guys in one spin, three hits. That Shaku would have to put out more energy to take each individual enemy down.

I digress.

One energy per hit is fine. The real problem is in the channelling survivability and damage output.

1.5x is good, but clearly not enough.

What I propose, is that the base channelling damage boost is elevated to 2x, or 2.25x. If it remains at 1.5x, then the damage should stack with a combo multiplier (more than it already does) or have a mod that achieves this. I also believe that most, if not all, melee weapons should have bullet REFLECTION while channelling, and the normal deflection while not.

When struck by a Scorpion, Butcher, Charger, etc. parrying should be automatic, and a 20% standard chance, can be boosted with the Parry mod, and certain hooked/curved short melees have a base 30% (Dual Zoren, Karyst, Gunsen, glaives) chance to parry or stun. If not a parry, then a block with larger weapons (claymores, axes, hammers). This would help with a survivability factor of channelling immensely.

This is what I've got so far, if anything is inaccurate/doesnt sound good/already exists, lemme know. Any response, pos. or neg. is better than nothing.

Edited March 9, 2018 by (XB1)LegendRaptor080
Additions.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

Consume energy per hit as it currently is, is the best. Love channeling, great system just needs more mods

[BBaw]

I like the current channeling system too its pretty nice.  If someone wants to add more mods of varying damage types and functionality to it, I wouldn't complain.  Its not broken or anything, though.  It works, I like it.

[Fallen_Echo]

5 hours ago, (XB1)LegendRaptor080 said:

So. Ignoring the train wreck of malignancy and hate here, I'd like to actually present an idea of mine for channelling. I agree that it definitely needs a rework, or at least fine-tuning. So first and foremost, the idea of having the Energy Drain/Hit is actually well balanced.

Think of it this way.

Let's have a Scoliac vs. a Shaku, huh? One will hit one enemy one time, the other will barrage him. The Scoliac, if not spin2win, and both have standard "anyone can cook (props if you get that)" builds, on a level, I dunno, 40, 50, enemy. The Scoliac will beat the Shaku in terms of efficiency per strike (not HIT, strike). HowEVER, in that one hit, that Scoliac will not have done enough damage to kill that enemy, whereas in the Shaku's case, they were probably already dead by the end of its barrage. Altogether, they take around the same amount of hits/energy to get their point across.

However, if that same Scoliac spun in a room with three guys, it would END those three guys in one spin, three hits. That Shaku would have to put out more energy to take each individual enemy down.

I digress.

One energy per hit is fine. The real problem is in the channelling survivability and damage output.

1.5x is good, but clearly not enough.

What I propose, is that the base channelling damage boost is elevated to 2x, or 2.25x. If it remains at 1.5x, then the damage should stack with a combo multiplier (more than it already does) or have a mod that achieves this. I also believe that most, if not all, melee weapons should have bullet REFLECTION while channelling, and the normal deflection while not.

When struck by a Scorpion, Butcher, Charger, etc. parrying should be automatic, and a 20% standard chance, can be boosted with the Parry mod, and certain hooked/curved short melees have a base 30% (Dual Zoren, Karyst, Gunsen, glaives) chance to parry or stun. If not a parry, then a block with larger weapons (claymores, axes, hammers). This would help with a survivability factor of channelling immensely.

This is what I've got so far, if anything is inaccurate/doesnt sound good/already exists, lemme know. Any response, pos. or neg. is better than nothing.

That sounds good for me.

Increasing the damage to make it worth using for the costs is a good solution and the added channel only effects only make it better.

[jofdeath]

the issue ive had with channaling is that fast or multi hiting weapons will drain 400 energy in like 15 seconds with slight moding to efficincy. if there was a way to change it i would say make channaling take 15-25 energy and give 5 seconds of channaled effects(with modable duration).

this way channaling will beable to have a lasting effects. like the speed mod that basicly never gets used out side of rando builds.

[Walkampf]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Fallen_Echo:

Thats why the whole statement start with "If" sarcasm doenst work on texts.

Sigh... you should read more books. Yes, sarcasm works in testform. It's harder to pull off, yes, but it works.

 

vor 9 Stunden schrieb Fallen_Echo:

But hey my original question is still up there what you didnt answered yet.

Come on and instead of debating what you dont like in my go and present something useable.

Ofcourse you did get my answer. In fact, you got it alrady several hours ago....

[BigPapiPimp]

14 hours ago, Datam4ss said:

Bring back stamina, make stamina the "energy" for channeling (and channeling only)

When I read this my mind just hopes for double channeling.

Free channel for a few seconds every few seconds, spend energy the rest of the time if you want the bonus’, or at the same time to double up.

i know this is t what you meant but I can dream.

i always wanted channeling to be worthwhile. Wish at least and exalted weapon like excal’s 4 had a better channeling multiplier.

i have fun using it with toxin procs, Saryn’s spores, and toxic lash though.

[seprent]

i use a machete zaw and i have zenericks 60% channel efficency that alone with the passive gain 50% of a orb pickup over 5 seconds i don't have much a problem with channeling cyclone kraken does multi strikes and if i am getting close dash my energy will kinda stay still for the 25 seconds and regen faster if i get a orb i'm not denying channeling could use a touch up here and there, some polish? sure go ahead. But if you keep a sense of management over that energy you can kinda channel all you want its only when whip out the big i can hit you 3 orthoses away weapons will your energy tank if you channel a swing but its system for it currently makes sense drains every for every enemy you hit so hitting a bunch of enemies at once will tank your pool. With your idea consuming energy per swing would leave all multi striking or flurry based weapons in the dust and only single swing weapons would be good and that would also limit some stances since some stances get their groove off multi swing/hit and say you have a flurry weapon kill with on hit but the stance combo you were doing makes you do several strikes you just lost energy from hitting air at-least with the current system you only lose energy from channeling if you hit something yes though we need more channeling based mods since with just killing blow my zaw can crit a channel swing for 32k+ with a 2.2 channel and a 3.6 crit multiplier on a 56% crit chance and i do that twice or once and powerful normal attack by meleeing once

Edited March 9, 2018 by seprent
spelling mistakes