TheRealDestian Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, DatDarkOne said: Publishers do pay attention to Indies and others in the industry quite often, and have been since the old Sega/Nintendo battles. Yup. Big publishers are basically looking for "safe" videogame concepts that they can take and rip off. I was once seated next to a Blizzard employee at a restaurant during PAX East, and I actually overheard them say, "Blizzard doesn't make games. Blizzard makes games better." Big publishers aren't all about innovation. They're about making as much safe money as possible. Hell, even a game the size and ambition of Warframe would be "risky" by their standards... Edited March 20, 2018 by TheRealDestian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 15 hours ago, A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n said: Anthem is dead on arrivial, primarily because it's made by EA, which guarantees it'll have issues at launch and that it'll be infested with loot boxes. The second reason is because it's trying to be another Division. That and because of little details like people fleeing the project. Until now Anthem has lost his lead supervisor (Flynn), lead animator (Gilmour) and lead writer (Karpyshyn) - yup they left the project and the company. Andromeda much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune_me Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 13 hours ago, TheRealDestian said: Big publishers aren't all about innovation. They're about making as much safe money as possible. Well they kind of have to. With how much money a AAA game cost to make, of course they are going with the tried-and-true formula they now works and sells. If you spend a 100 million dollars to make your new game, you can't really afford to take chances and try something new and innovative in the hope that people will like it and buy your game. Indie developers don't have that problem. Because their stakes are relatively low and they have much less to loose, they can be more creative and innovative and just go on gut feelings of what might make a good game. It's not indie games, or the success of Warframe, that are killing the AAA industry, it's the outrageous production costs, that means that if you can't absolute guarantee to sell X number of copies of your new game, you might as well file for bankruptcy and turn the key, because you just spend all your money making it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DatDarkOne Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, rune_me said: Well they kind of have to. With how much money a AAA game cost to make, of course they are going with the tried-and-true formula they now works and sells. If you spend a 100 million dollars to make your new game, you can't really afford to take chances and try something new and innovative in the hope that people will like it and buy your game. Indie developers don't have that problem. Because their stakes are relatively low and they have much less to loose, they can be more creative and innovative and just go on gut feelings of what might make a good game. It's not indie games, or the success of Warframe, that are killing the AAA industry, it's the outrageous production costs, that means that if you can't absolute guarantee to sell X number of copies of your new game, you might as well file for bankruptcy and turn the key, because you just spend all your money making it. That's not quite true. Brand new IPs have the high dev costs, but not all of the rehashed yearly releases. The dev costs of yearly sports games, CoD, and Assassin's Creed games aren't nearly as high as the very first games of those series. I say this because they mostly just release the same games as the year before with a few changes. Another example of the fallacy of dev costs/production time. Why does it take Polydigital so long to release a Gran Turismo game when Turn 10 releases Forza a product that is just as polished in a much shorter time. The argument of high dev costs as an excuse has been debunked in quite a few videos and articles in the past few years. A simple internet search will bring up many results debunking it. I'm not saying this as an attack on you Rune_me. Just offering some more information in regards to your comment. It's directed at that specific point and not you personally. Edited March 20, 2018 by DatDarkOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniDax Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said: That's not quite true. Brand new IPs have the high dev costs, but not all of the rehashed yearly releases. The dev costs of yearly sports games, CoD, and Assassin's Creed games aren't nearly as high as the very first games of those series. I say this because they mostly just release the same games as the year before with a few changes. Another example of the fallacy of dev costs/production time. Why does it take Polydigital so long to release a Gran Turismo game when Turn 10 releases a product that is just as polished in a much shorter time. The argument of high dev costs as an excuse has been debunked in quite a few videos and articles in the past few years. A simple internet search will bring up many results debunking it. I'm not saying this as an attack on you Rune_me. Just offering some more information in regards to your comment. It's directed at that specific point and not you personally. You might be right about sports games and COD games (especially COD games which are still using assets from MW2), but you are wrong about the AC games. They spend like four years on each game because they have to do a whole lot of research, research-related travel, and the intricate crafting of detailed environments to support their games. That's a lot of money and production time. Edited March 20, 2018 by A-p-o-l-l-y-o-n Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)PREDATOR587 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 On 3/19/2018 at 3:41 PM, TheRealDestian said: Thank you for delivering a brutal reminder to the lootbox-infested dumpster fire that is the "AAA" gaming world that smaller devs with vision and talent can kick the crap out of bloated, shareholder-controlled abominations that can't make the connection between customer satisfaction and higher profits. Makes me smile every time I see mainstream youtubers and streamers saying, "Yeah, Warframe though..." because WF deserves the recognition and I'm glad it's getting more and more of it. its funny cause destiny killed destiny, now with anthem you got ea killing anthem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)GrottanGo Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 On 19/3/2018 at 4:50 PM, Ham_Grenabe said: Agreed. Destiny's* death was an inside job. Warframe, The Division, Anthem, whatever, none of them had (or would have had) any particular effect on it. * Well, Destiny 2. Destiny 1 seems to be doing pretty okay given its age. Which is even more embarrassing for Bungie. you're saying that destiny's still being played? rly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ham_Grenabe Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Just now, (PS4)GrottanGo said: you're saying that destiny's still being played? rly? Which one? They're both being played, but I think D1 is approaching or even outstripping D2 from time to time. That's just from hearsay on the Bungie forums, though; I have no data to back that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)thowed Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Bungie needed no help killing Destiny. If anything they pushed players to Warframe on console. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madotsuki Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Wrong. Bungie killed Destiny (D2 at least) with awful business practices at the worst time possible, and EA killed Anthem by sheer force of bad reputation. Bad companies don't need any help killing their own products :^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcceI Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Warframe can't kill a Triple A game like Destiny which is at the very least 5x more popular. DE would trip over themselves just attempting to. Only The developers themselves (Bungie) is capable of killing that franchise at this point in time tbh. Destiny is at the top of the mountain with the likes of COD or Madden etc Same thing with Anthem. Im pretty sure EA wants a slice of gaming's biggest suckers (The Destiny Community) but Warframe shouldn't even be on EA's nor Bioware's Radar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcceI Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 On 3/19/2018 at 12:00 PM, CephalonNiksyn said: I still want to try Anthem if it'll REALLY be completely f2p like Warframe and won't have these stupid lootboxes. The post of the day ppl. ^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megastorm Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Sea of Thieves joined this wave which will be added to my collection of games without lootboxes. I do not mind paying for cosmetics as long as I know that what I pay for I get. I am happy about the progression in Star Wars Battlefront 2, but its still freaking lootboxes for cosmetics. I don't know who started this lootbox craze, but some publishers need to step up and help end this crap. I am happy that I actually like warframe and its my main game. I don't feel pressured to use my card just to progress. I just need EA to leave Dice the #*!% alone and Dice get back to the Battlefield 2/bc2/1942 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEjAvU5566 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Bungee kill Destiny2 themselves. Warframe just keeping its own pace. Anthem will sell like a blast no matter the content. Just like SWBF2, which players claims to be a victory towards micro transactions, still sold for more than 900M copies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sziklamester Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Destiny one is still played and the 2 also but they did a lot of mistakes at Bungie and the game and the company reputation is dropped. The EA like to kill franchises and companies under their flag if the excepted numbers not coming and I have a hard feeling about it will be the last chance to Bioware to make something special but the situation is clearly the same which was on the Andromeda creating team. Short timelines a lot of progress and they sucked with the engine and how to integrate it. Honestly the trailer or the first released datas were promising but it turned to be a mediocre at best game. That studio is dozed into the two another and the original mass effect team also sucks with the Anthem by heard some infos but not so much. As much as I know they are close to a finish or they were but the bug test showed to them the game is not ready and they needed to ask some delay in order to polish the game. They lost meantime key figures which we know what resulted in Andromeda and I waited for that game but then decided to not buy it. It is not a surprise they are doing worse what they were good. Same goes to the Bethesda which still making buggy games but at least they can make a fun of it. The whole AAA game segment is suffocating and they are in the dire need to fresh air but the indies can only risk things. The development budget wasted on high salaries and marketing. Marketing eats the half of the budget at least and the rest spent on the game. No need to spend high budget to build a good game but it helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndermanBeast Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Just now, Sziklamester said: Destiny one is still played and the 2 also but they did a lot of mistakes at Bungie and the game and the company reputation is dropped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukkiete Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 7 hours ago, AcceI said: The post of the day ppl. ^ What's so funny? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Buyukbaba Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 This game has pulled me in, a call of duty and battlefield blinded gamer, and now I cannot stop playing. I have never been a destiny player, played for only couple of hours, but I spent tens of hours for this one in 5-6 days. warframe is a game which proves that every AAA+ game could easily be F2P without being P2W. May be this model is the model for COD not to be criticized this much for the past few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diarist Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 (edited) Warframe didn't kill Destiny, Bungie did. Not even Activision. Bungie is the one that decided to push all those terrible egregious concepts. Activision just said "yeah okay whatever.' Seriously, look into the backstory and the behind the scenes at what goes on, and what has gone on at Bungie. It's horrifying and almost comical that a studio can be so incompetent. Like, these are supposed to be professionals. It's hilariously nuts. It's really a shame too, because as a VIDEOGAME, on a GAMEPLAY perspective; Destiny is fantastic. Combat feels good, exploring is really fun, finding lore secrets and easter eggs is exciting, the Strikes and Raids are magical to say the very least. I literallyhave no idea how Bungie could have f'd up so bad with D2 with its Eververse and scandals and making headlines literally every single week. Apparently there's a big update coming soon? I heard nothing about it. The game literally generates 0 hype now because of how badly Bungie handled it. As for Anthem? I for one was never impressed with that preview/trailer thing and didn't understand all the intrigue and excitement. It looked really, REALLY bland especially compared to something fast and magical like Warframe. So you're a guy in an exo shoot suiting aliens... great, I guess? I'm sorry, I just never understood what Anthem had that made it so 'hype." And at the rate its going, lead writers leaving, developers leaving, etc, I fully expect this game to be one of the biggest flops ever. And I'll be happy when it is, 'cus it looked awful anyway (this isn't to piss all over the developers breaking their backs over developing this thing, either. I worry for them because we all know how EA handles studios). Regardless no, Warframe didn't 'kill' them. They killed themselves because their devs (and in Anthem's case, publisher as well) ruined them by being wankers. They don't and didn't have to be BETTER than Warframe to be successful (especially since they really are different beasts altogether), they just need to be well crafted videogames, which they failed to do, or in Anthem's case, are failing to do. Warframe's simply gorging itself in the spoils of Destiny and Anthem's failures, and deservedly so, 'cus... y'know, DE actually cares about what they're making. And aren't a bunch of wankers. Edited March 21, 2018 by Diarist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 7 hours ago, megastorm said: Sea of Thieves joined this wave which will be added to my collection of games without lootboxes. I do not mind paying for cosmetics as long as I know that what I pay for I get. I am happy about the progression in Star Wars Battlefront 2, but its still freaking lootboxes for cosmetics. I don't know who started this lootbox craze, but some publishers need to step up and help end this crap. I am happy that I actually like warframe and its my main game. I don't feel pressured to use my card just to progress. I just need EA to leave Dice the #*!% alone and Dice get back to the Battlefield 2/bc2/1942 days. Lootboxes have been around a long time but for reference Overwatch started the real craze where it's seeping into every game like pollution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)PhoenixReviving Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 So, as a long-term player of the Destiny franchise, I saw this thread and wanted to add my two cents. The original destiny was the game that convinced me to buy an Xbox. I saw Broman and Goth and Tea playing the beta one day and thought, "This looks right up my alley." I did some research on Bungie and the direction of the game, and started playing just before House of Wolves. I played every dlc of Destiny 1 - every raid, every new planet - and loved it. The game was awesome. I was so hyped for destiny 2 that I pre-ordered, and even took time off for work to play on release day. Then the many, many issues with Destiny 2 started to make themselves apparent. My friends list started deserting the game en masse. I tried to stick it out, because I hoped that Bungie could fix it, but with all the lies and the mistakes, even I eventually decided I couldn't take any more. I refuse to log in for any reason - no event or raid team can make me put my number on Destiny 2's active player scoreboard. Funny thing, my friends have almost all gone back to playing Destiny 1, and they are much happier for it. (Except for my bestie, who I dragged over to the dark side with me.) I was looking for another game to play, and happened to remember a friend telling me I should try warframe. Free to play, beautiful gameplay and graphics - I found myself with so many things to do and not enough time to do them. And DE doesn't actively screw their player base! I'm a couple hundred hours in and happy to put in several hundred more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyndocrit Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Been saying this since the whole EA kerfuffle started: Rip Anthem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Shade0217 Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 #AnthemAbortion ...too soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcceI Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 14 hours ago, CephalonNiksyn said: What's so funny? "I still want to try Anthem if it'll REALLY be completely f2p like Warframe and won't have these stupid lootboxes." ^ This post is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megastorm Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, (PS4)Yes-Man-Kablaam said: Lootboxes have been around a long time but for reference Overwatch started the real craze where it's seeping into every game like pollution. That depends what genre's and markets you are talking about. Chinese been doing it since early 2006. We started seeing it mobile gaming, TF2 and counterstrike as well as mmo's. I believe when it hit mmo's back in 2007, or 2010 (i forget) is when it was already a craze. Millions upon millions of people were exposed to this stuff already, and lots of voices have been heard. The media didn't really get involved until battlefront II and overwatch as well incorporate other games like TF2, counterstrike, and even the popular farmville. The evolution happened when it started pouring into other genre's. It has been going on with devs and publishers long before overwatch. The gaming communities of these previous games have already been voicing their opinions. Edited March 22, 2018 by megastorm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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