Warframe Genders

[Birdframe_Prime]

21 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

I mean the last option you providet is just as possible. Not likely, especially given the circumstances and totally nonexistant implications, definitly not as likely as fully sentient frames especially given what we do know about them but indeed possible. Just not very likely

Actually, it's more likely than your 'enslaved being choosing to help' option. Something that has shown no more intelligence or self-possession than a suit of clothes, and for months and years of play on end can go in some wardrobe in your liset without any kind of interaction, let alone direct control, suddenly, magically finds itself not only capable of making a reaction to a massive pain stimulus, but also reacting in a way that no logical being would react even if it was capable of thought... Especially when the 'dormant tenno power' idea has basis in actually being proven to exist in the very next quest.

The idea that dormant tenno power, which has been proven to exist, manifests enough to kill Hunhow's core using the Warframe, is more credible than that your frame Disney'd itself alive and cognitavely aware enough to make noble sacrifices...

21 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

But gender huh. For something people consider mindless shells. Especially when people shouldn't mind one bit.

Well if you want to get back on topic, then there's this one that I haven't found many people get around:

The warframes are all based off the Primes, and the Primes (as we've seen in the trailers with Ballas narrating, especially Mirage Prime) were all based on something specific. Someone. The only way we're replicating the powers of a warframe using our Foundry is to mimic the form that the original took as close as possible. Much like when we build a Prime itself, we're using the exact blueprints of the original, which obviously had a specific shape... and who knows what actually changing the shape would do? How it would warp the powers? That's why we have 'genders'; because they're all based off the Primes and the Primes are based off (in the most accepted theory) the Tenno that were going to 'become' them.

We aren't creating anything, here, we're re-creating something that came before. And think of what we're actually re-creating; things that can manipulate the very atoms of our world to their will, forces of nature, forces of physics, theoretical space...

So...

If you were going to put a Nuke together, and the wiring happened to spell out the word 'crikey' on the board, I'm fairly certain you'd still want to follow the electrical diagram exactly, rather than re-arrange all the wires because they'd spell out something you felt was more appropriate.

That's pretty much the thinking here. Change the shape, change the wiring, change the results. Maybe to the point where the frame didn't work anymore.

[Ventura_Highway]

gender is unlikely an applicable concept to hunks of infested meat

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Thaylien:

 

That's pretty much the thinking here. Change the shape, change the wiring, change the results. Maybe to the point where the frame didn't work anymore.

You don't work much with electronics do you? As someone who's designed ciruits, let me guarantee you...the wiring matters little so long you route them correctly.

[Caelward]

The arguments for why gender bending warframes is a good idea are nice and all...

But it's just not happening. Argue the semantics, thematics and mechanics all you want, the bottom line is that DE can't afford to drop other projects and sink the amount of effort into this that's required.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Time they could've invested in the first place, for something that allways had demand.

Hell it wouldn't be half the effort if they did so to begin with... but they did not and all these threads are the result of that choice.

If you're against it, that's fine. But be aware that there's just as much reason and justification for people to support that concept.

[ObviousLee]

1 hour ago, Thaylien said:

Actually, it's more likely than your 'enslaved being choosing to help' option. Something that has shown no more intelligence or self-possession than a suit of clothes, and for months and years of play on end can go in some wardrobe in your liset without any kind of interaction, let alone direct control, suddenly, magically finds itself not only capable of making a reaction to a massive pain stimulus, but also reacting in a way that no logical being would react even if it was capable of thought... Especially when the 'dormant tenno power' idea has basis in actually being proven to exist in the very next quest.

The idea that dormant tenno power, which has been proven to exist, manifests enough to kill Hunhow's core using the Warframe, is more credible than that your frame Disney'd itself alive and cognitavely aware enough to make noble sacrifices...

Well if you want to get back on topic, then there's this one that I haven't found many people get around:

The warframes are all based off the Primes, and the Primes (as we've seen in the trailers with Ballas narrating, especially Mirage Prime) were all based on something specific. Someone. The only way we're replicating the powers of a warframe using our Foundry is to mimic the form that the original took as close as possible. Much like when we build a Prime itself, we're using the exact blueprints of the original, which obviously had a specific shape... and who knows what actually changing the shape would do? How it would warp the powers? That's why we have 'genders'; because they're all based off the Primes and the Primes are based off (in the most accepted theory) the Tenno that were going to 'become' them.

We aren't creating anything, here, we're re-creating something that came before. And think of what we're actually re-creating; things that can manipulate the very atoms of our world to their will, forces of nature, forces of physics, theoretical space...

So...

If you were going to put a Nuke together, and the wiring happened to spell out the word 'crikey' on the board, I'm fairly certain you'd still want to follow the electrical diagram exactly, rather than re-arrange all the wires because they'd spell out something you felt was more appropriate.

That's pretty much the thinking here. Change the shape, change the wiring, change the results. Maybe to the point where the frame didn't work anymore.

Hate to burst your bubble but primes don't come first. The primes are based off the mainstay model, and the silver Grove it's proof of this. The rhino prime entry gives proof that the infested golem is capable of recognition and memory. The second dream demonstrates that the golem is capable of self initiated movement. The war within proves that latent Tenno abilities exist, yes. But it also proved that memory alteration to such a severe extent was able to hinder and limit Tenno abilities as a whole. It's not a hint at latent power, it's the golem making a move to protect the operator. 

[Xarteros]

They could always make it a task for the tennogen community, and charge a small platinum fee for in-game purchases (which the tennogen community gets a small share of)

Then, just get the community to vote up a short list for DE to browse through, DE can select their top picks, and they can either choose the winner or let the top picks go back to the community for deciding.

Less work for DE, more player interaction, cool new designs, doesn't have to be done all at once. It's like a win-win-win-win-win-win

[Birdframe_Prime]

Okay, let's break this down a bit. Because these are very easy parts of the lore to interpret either way.

1 hour ago, ObviousLee said:

Hate to burst your bubble but primes don't come first. The primes are based off the mainstay model, and the silver Grove it's proof of this.

The Silver Grove is proof... how?

We know that Titania was not the first Warframe, and that other people worked on them, Ballas didn't work alone. But you're suggesting that what we uncover in terms of the blueprints is somehow the original Titania?

I don't agree. The way we create Warframes with the non-prime parts is to immitate, but only get the functions of, a Prime. The Blueprints we get from any quest are never the Primes because without the actual Prime Part Blueprints from the Orokin Era, we can't replicate an actual Prime with current tech. That's why every frame can be primed, no matter what its quest origins are, because whenever we create the blueprints without crafting the actual Prime Parts themselves, which are only available from the Relics of the Orokin Era, we can't create the original frame. Just a cut-down copy.

We still don't know what actually separates the Prime blueprints from the regular ones we create, but the simple fact remains that they are intrinsically different. We're only creating a form similar to them, not the original pieces.

I will allow that there is likely one frame that will be a bit difficult to explain away; Harrow. But the lore on him was that the frame used there wasn't created by Ballas, but by the people who became the Red Veil, giving Rel a vessel. I could quite easily see that being explained by saying that Harrow Prime was a frame that Ballas created, but the subject for it either died in the process, or died in the war, and the Red Veil created a replica using non-Orokin parts for Rell. It's a bit of a stretch, but plausible enough given the malleability of the story so far.

But all in all, it's why people are quite so hyped about The Sacrifice, because we may actually find out what Warframes really are, this time, and figure out things that might change them.

1 hour ago, ObviousLee said:

The rhino prime entry gives proof that the infested golem is capable of recognition and memory.

There is nothing that says that this is a Warframe experiment, nothing that says this was an experiment into Transference... there's so much that isn't said that it's really kind of silly to try and force this into a narrative on Tenno things at all.

All the Rhino Prime entry shows is what happens when an un-finished experiment based on the Infested, who have open receptors for a Hive Mind, because that's what they were designed to become, not a Warframe, comes into range of being with Innate Transference. It can simply be argued that this is the discovery of Innate Transference, as opposed to Kuva Transference, which is where they completely take over a living host. There cannot have been Warframes with Tenno Operators before this point because the Tenno are the only ones with that ability.

Rather than a being capable of recognition and memory, it's equally, if not more, likely that the Infested creature just encountered a mind that was looking for some kind of body. The actions it has, of looking around in confusion and looking at its hands, could just as easily be the first Tenno mind looking out through the creature's senses, wondering where it is all of a sudden.

So, sadly, Rhino Prime's Codex isn't proof of anything at all. It only serves to open more questions.

What there could have been before this, possibly, is Warframes created with Kuva Transference, where the person took over the host body entirely, becoming the Warframe instead of themselves. But it's highly unlikely that the Orokin would have wasted Kuva on that kind of experiment, since it's so rare and necessary for their own continued existence. And even more unlikely after the discovery of Tenno children, since they not only wanted them to fight, but also to serve as hosts for themselves (as the Grineer Queen's plot was centred around) when they were done fighting.

We also know from the multiple Infested-linked lore parts that they were created first as an answer to the Sentients, living organisms that could adapt and be controlled, it's genuinely a logical progression that the Rhino Prime entry was actually just further experimentation into the Infested until the subject escaped and went rogue, leading one person to make the desperate connection between some readings he was getting from the sleeping children, and the receptors on the Infested creatures he was making.

The Warframes we know were created because of this discovery, what they were designing in the Rhino Prime excerpt was not yet, or possibly even originally not supposed to be, a Warframe.

1 hour ago, ObviousLee said:

But it also proved that memory alteration to such a severe extent was able to hinder and limit Tenno abilities as a whole. It's not a hint at latent power, it's the golem making a move to protect the operator.

Memory alteration can only make a person not access something, it just makes you forget how to use something, if a tool exists, not remembering it's there doesn't mean it's gone. The lack of being able to use the abilities could as easily be down to the Tenno being isolated and completely un-aware of their own bodies for so long, and it taking a high-stress environment like the mental attack of the Grineer Queen, to cause them to basically reach for any way out, as they would have done in The Second Dream and then fully re-access what was always there.

And long before a Warframe would be in danger enough to protect an Operator, by somehow 'waking up', the Operator being in danger themselves would be more likely to access latent abilities that they already have, but have forgotten exist.

The argument that the Warframe is in danger and so protects the user ignores the simple possibility that the user was in duress and used an ability they didn't remember instinctively. It's just a far more likely trigger than something happening to a Warframe that happens fairly often to Warframes; large scale damage. Since Warframes undergo that all the time, why would being stabbed be any different?

Much like a person in danger using an adrenaline rush to leap entirely onto a car in a standing jump (as I've personally witnessed a mother do to protect their child), the Tenno is being physically threatened for the first time in thousands of years, probably Otacon'ing themselves in terror, and so they fight back in the specific way their mind is able to.

A Tenno's default response to combat is to inhabit a Warframe, we have seen this time and again, which means that them reaching out for a Warframe when held up by the throat by the Stalker, not to mention being pushed into unconsciousness anyway, is a vastly more likely outcome than something that we can literally debate is or isn't in the lore.

Now...

With all that said?

I personally have the opinion that The Sacrifice will actually do this. It will allow us to keep interpreting things either way by actually providing us a way to 'awaken' our Warframes ourselves. I believe that this is what Umbra is about; that Ballas gives us a way to awaken our Warframe's mind and provide in-game battle interactions with it.

That's my own prediction, as it were, and would actually let us keep arguing about which it was in The Second Dream until kingdom come. It seems like something DE would do, anyway...

But looking at the lore objectively, it's so very open to interpretation, I could go on all day. The most likely version is the one I've settled for, on comparing the multiple things that specifically aren't mentioned in the Lore, rather than trying to theorise purely from what little information is.

[ObviousLee]

10 minutes ago, Thaylien said:

Okay, let's break this down a bit. Because these are very easy parts of the lore to interpret either way.

The Silver Grove is proof... how?

We know that Titania was not the first Warframe, and that other people worked on them, Ballas didn't work alone. But you're suggesting that what we uncover in terms of the blueprints is somehow the original Titania?

I don't agree. The way we create Warframes with the non-prime parts is to immitate, but only get the functions of, a Prime. The Blueprints we get from any quest are never the Primes because without the actual Prime Part Blueprints from the Orokin Era, we can't replicate an actual Prime with current tech. That's why every frame can be primed, no matter what its quest origins are, because whenever we create the blueprints without crafting the actual Prime Parts themselves, which are only available from the Relics of the Orokin Era, we can't create the original frame. Just a cut-down copy.

We still don't know what actually separates the Prime blueprints from the regular ones we create, but the simple fact remains that they are intrinsically different. We're only creating a form similar to them, not the original pieces.

I will allow that there is likely one frame that will be a bit difficult to explain away; Harrow. But the lore on him was that the frame used there wasn't created by Ballas, but by the people who became the Red Veil, giving Rel a vessel. I could quite easily see that being explained by saying that Harrow Prime was a frame that Ballas created, but the subject for it either died in the process, or died in the war, and the Red Veil created a replica using non-Orokin parts for Rell. It's a bit of a stretch, but plausible enough given the malleability of the story so far.

But all in all, it's why people are quite so hyped about The Sacrifice, because we may actually find out what Warframes really are, this time, and figure out things that might change them.

There is nothing that says that this is a Warframe experiment, nothing that says this was an experiment into Transference... there's so much that isn't said that it's really kind of silly to try and force this into a narrative on Tenno things at all.

All the Rhino Prime entry shows is what happens when an un-finished experiment based on the Infested, who have open receptors for a Hive Mind, because that's what they were designed to become, not a Warframe, comes into range of being with Innate Transference. It can simply be argued that this is the discovery of Innate Transference, as opposed to Kuva Transference, which is where they completely take over a living host. There cannot have been Warframes with Tenno Operators before this point because the Tenno are the only ones with that ability.

Rather than a being capable of recognition and memory, it's equally, if not more, likely that the Infested creature just encountered a mind that was looking for some kind of body. The actions it has, of looking around in confusion and looking at its hands, could just as easily be the first Tenno mind looking out through the creature's senses, wondering where it is all of a sudden.

So, sadly, Rhino Prime's Codex isn't proof of anything at all. It only serves to open more questions.

What there could have been before this, possibly, is Warframes created with Kuva Transference, where the person took over the host body entirely, becoming the Warframe instead of themselves. But it's highly unlikely that the Orokin would have wasted Kuva on that kind of experiment, since it's so rare and necessary for their own continued existence. And even more unlikely after the discovery of Tenno children, since they not only wanted them to fight, but also to serve as hosts for themselves (as the Grineer Queen's plot was centred around) when they were done fighting.

We also know from the multiple Infested-linked lore parts that they were created first as an answer to the Sentients, living organisms that could adapt and be controlled, it's genuinely a logical progression that the Rhino Prime entry was actually just further experimentation into the Infested until the subject escaped and went rogue, leading one person to make the desperate connection between some readings he was getting from the sleeping children, and the receptors on the Infested creatures he was making.

The Warframes we know were created because of this discovery, what they were designing in the Rhino Prime excerpt was not yet, or possibly even originally not supposed to be, a Warframe.

Memory alteration can only make a person not access something, it just makes you forget how to use something, if a tool exists, not remembering it's there doesn't mean it's gone. The lack of being able to use the abilities could as easily be down to the Tenno being isolated and completely un-aware of their own bodies for so long, and it taking a high-stress environment like the mental attack of the Grineer Queen, to cause them to basically reach for any way out, as they would have done in The Second Dream and then fully re-access what was always there.

And long before a Warframe would be in danger enough to protect an Operator, by somehow 'waking up', the Operator being in danger themselves would be more likely to access latent abilities that they already have, but have forgotten exist.

The argument that the Warframe is in danger and so protects the user ignores the simple possibility that the user was in duress and used an ability they didn't remember instinctively. It's just a far more likely trigger than something happening to a Warframe that happens fairly often to Warframes; large scale damage. Since Warframes undergo that all the time, why would being stabbed be any different?

Much like a person in danger using an adrenaline rush to leap entirely onto a car in a standing jump (as I've personally witnessed a mother do to protect their child), the Tenno is being physically threatened for the first time in thousands of years, probably Otacon'ing themselves in terror, and so they fight back in the specific way their mind is able to.

A Tenno's default response to combat is to inhabit a Warframe, we have seen this time and again, which means that them reaching out for a Warframe when held up by the throat by the Stalker, not to mention being pushed into unconsciousness anyway, is a vastly more likely outcome than something that we can literally debate is or isn't in the lore.

Now...

With all that said?

I personally have the opinion that The Sacrifice will actually do this. It will allow us to keep interpreting things either way by actually providing us a way to 'awaken' our Warframes ourselves. I believe that this is what Umbra is about; that Ballas gives us a way to awaken our Warframe's mind and provide in-game battle interactions with it.

That's my own prediction, as it were, and would actually let us keep arguing about which it was in The Second Dream until kingdom come. It seems like something DE would do, anyway...

But looking at the lore objectively, it's so very open to interpretation, I could go on all day. The most likely version is the one I've settled for, on comparing the multiple things that specifically aren't mentioned in the Lore, rather than trying to theorise purely from what little information is.

How is the silver grove proof? Because the titania in the quest is the prototype. There was only that one at the time, which was stolen by Sylvana when she escaped to earth. And on earth is where that Titania died. You get its blueprints from that quest. The argument of "well we just make the normal ones because we don't have the prime blueprint" is folly because if that were the case, then all blueprints would be primed. There were primes, and mass production models. Not every warframe ever used during the old war was a prime. If every non-prime variant was a faulty version of the prime, especially quest frames like mirage inaros and the like, then again we'd be making nothing but primes. The fact that these versions exist in of itself is indicative of mass production. How primes were divvied out, I cannot say in a concrete fashion other than likely those tenno who exemplified themselves.

Harrow is....an oddity. I have a theory behind that but that's a conversation for another time, especially lacking any credible evidence other than what's available in the game thus far(even though the mirage quest hints at harrow's existence as well as void daddy) and as such is mostly conjecture.

The rhino prime codex entry doesn't hint at it being a warframe project? How about the fact it uses rhino's abilities of iron skin, roar and charge? How about that it directly hints at transference, the ability that tenno have innately due to empowerment of the void? If someone were to be rendered unconscious, and then regain consciousness but in what visibly is a foreign body I'm fairly certain they'd be more than a little bit confused. The proto-rhino, as it's commonly referred to, in this entry is quite clearly a predecessor to the warframe project as a whole. Pretty undeniable in all honesty.

The war within clearly states that through memory manipulation the majority of the tenno's powers were locked away. Locked away means inaccessible. Through Teshin's guidance you're forced into unlocking memories that reduce the limitation of what the operator is capable of. As far as the operator is concerned prior to this enlightenment those abilities do not exist. The orokin feared the tenno to a large degree due to what they were capable of as well as their mental instability, and logic would dictate that you'd mitigate a threat as much as possible in the event you're going to use the housing of said threat. And we know that the orokin were forced to utilize the tenno against the sentients as they were the only thing the sentients couldn't withstand due to the nature of their powers.

 

Not once did I say the warframe being in danger, nor make any reference to it. I said specifically the operator was in imminent danger and the warframe reacted of its own volition to save it. There is no outstretched hand reaching for the warframe. Your hands are around the stalkers, as he's choking you like all the harder daddy's that inhabit the world would love to experience, except in this case you're effectively dead to rights. Bear this in mind: had your warframe not broken war, you'd have died. At that moment the stalker won. He was going to choke you to death, and there was literally nothing you could do about it, nor anything that you did do about it. The warframe acted of its own accord and broke war off in its chest, severing the connection to the stalker from hunhow. How can I make this conclusion? How about the fact that Titania was able to make complex and calculated movements when fighting the Dax soldiers setting fire to the grove while Sylvana was transferred into the grove itself? As well as the rhino prime codex entry clearly stating cognitive abilities such as recognition and character association. There was no operator for Titania at the time, it was acting of its own accord, much like your warframe did during the end of TSD.

Add to that the mirage quest: The lotus gains a memory from a void imprint that is not her own memory. It's not of margulis either considering that thanks to the silver grove we know that prior to the warframe project becoming what it did at its final stage it was originally intended for therapy for the children of the zeriman, and upon her "death" was repurposed as a weapons platform which indicates that she had no hand or knowledge in the creation of a single "warframe". This means the one speaking to mirage in that memory is not the lotus, nor can it be, because the memory belongs to neither her nor margulis. Therefore the memory can only belong to one person, the operator. The operator is speaking to its warframe, and the warframe is in some fashion responding with emotional stimuli. These are all clear indicators of intelligence and symbiosis of a warframe with its operator. The mirage in that quest line is laughing manically while ripping the heads off of sentients, and the operator is trying to console something that is infested and understanding of what a lie is. That means intelligence exists within the golem.

[NeithanDiniem]

2 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Okay, let's break this down a bit. Because these are very easy parts of the lore to interpret either way.

The Silver Grove is proof... how?

We know that Titania was not the first Warframe, and that other people worked on them, Ballas didn't work alone. But you're suggesting that what we uncover in terms of the blueprints is somehow the original Titania?

I don't agree. The way we create Warframes with the non-prime parts is to immitate, but only get the functions of, a Prime. The Blueprints we get from any quest are never the Primes because without the actual Prime Part Blueprints from the Orokin Era, we can't replicate an actual Prime with current tech. That's why every frame can be primed, no matter what its quest origins are, because whenever we create the blueprints without crafting the actual Prime Parts themselves, which are only available from the Relics of the Orokin Era, we can't create the original frame. Just a cut-down copy.

We still don't know what actually separates the Prime blueprints from the regular ones we create, but the simple fact remains that they are intrinsically different. We're only creating a form similar to them, not the original pieces.

We are making the mass production model because not only do we not have the blueprint for the prime in our possession, but we cannot replicate something about them. That is why we need the blueprints. The blueprints had to have been made during the Orokin era because when we fight Chroma, he is not a prime. When we get Limbo parts, they are not prime parts. When we get Mirage, they are not prime blueprints. Nidus, not a prime when we get him. If the frame in the stories of those quests were primes we would have gotten prime blueprints and parts from them, the same way we get them from relics. Every frame we get through quests are called relics and artifacts, things typically equated to age. We know they are mass produced for several reasons, but the primary proof is the frames themselves. Several have text on their bodies that point to mass produced parts and models. The models however point to another thing, which I will get to later.

As for Titania, Lee is incorrect here and we've spoken about it. Since DE is making proto skins for every frame now to coincide with the deluxe set, those would have been the prototype. From that, the Prime would have been made by Ballas. This is determined by his trailers, which he often takes credit for the designs as his own. He then would have presented these Primes to the Archimedians so they could make mass production versions of the frames for the war. Why mass production models? Because the Primes have something about them that makes them special, something we cannot replicate. Now the Archimedians could have with their resources and knowledge, but the fact that we cannot replicate it either and that the Primes have their better stats and all points towards something about them being unique, expensive/hard to make in mass, and bad for a large scale war with throwaway proxies. Better to save the gilded warriors for those that have earned the respect and right to don them, as the lore states.

Sylvana did not make multiple versions of Titania that we know of (That may have been an old argument of mine swaying Lee from an earlier discussion, for that I apologize), but she did make a version of her. Specifically, she was instructed to make Titania, not a frame that she happened to call Titania. This would mean that the design existed already and something about it needed to be altered or fixed up, in this case it is how to do the same thing that the Prime can do, but for mass production. We also know that Titania was not her first Warframe project from the quest dialog. Judging by the specters we encounter during the quest, I would wager that Sylvana had a hand in the development of Oberon Feyarch, Saryn Orchid, and Loki Knave, as all three also share a forest theme along with being the guardians of the grove, along with Titania. These would have all been variants of the prime as developed for a mass production model. Other Archimedians would have made the other variants we know of (we just don't know what those variants' names are, only which frame they are for). This is how the cosmetic skins we have are all canonized, and that can even extend to the Tennogen skins unless DE wants to either keep those separate or they intend for them to be canonized as tenno-design, something that is already canon in lore.

2 hours ago, Thaylien said:

I will allow that there is likely one frame that will be a bit difficult to explain away; Harrow. But the lore on him was that the frame used there wasn't created by Ballas, but by the people who became the Red Veil, giving Rel a vessel. I could quite easily see that being explained by saying that Harrow Prime was a frame that Ballas created, but the subject for it either died in the process, or died in the war, and the Red Veil created a replica using non-Orokin parts for Rell. It's a bit of a stretch, but plausible enough given the malleability of the story so far.

With the above context, Harrow is explained perfectly fine. Ballas made the prime after a prototype had been developed, and the Archimedians developed variants for mass production. One of these variants was discovered by the Red Veil and either built from a blueprint or repaired/rebuilt from parts and used as a vessel for Rell.

2 hours ago, Thaylien said:

There is nothing that says that this is a Warframe experiment, nothing that says this was an experiment into Transference... there's so much that isn't said that it's really kind of silly to try and force this into a narrative on Tenno things at all.

All the Rhino Prime entry shows is what happens when an un-finished experiment based on the Infested, who have open receptors for a Hive Mind, because that's what they were designed to become, not a Warframe, comes into range of being with Innate Transference. It can simply be argued that this is the discovery of Innate Transference, as opposed to Kuva Transference, which is where they completely take over a living host. There cannot have been Warframes with Tenno Operators before this point because the Tenno are the only ones with that ability.

Rather than a being capable of recognition and memory, it's equally, if not more, likely that the Infested creature just encountered a mind that was looking for some kind of body. The actions it has, of looking around in confusion and looking at its hands, could just as easily be the first Tenno mind looking out through the creature's senses, wondering where it is all of a sudden.

So, sadly, Rhino Prime's Codex isn't proof of anything at all. It only serves to open more questions.

What there could have been before this, possibly, is Warframes created with Kuva Transference, where the person took over the host body entirely, becoming the Warframe instead of themselves. But it's highly unlikely that the Orokin would have wasted Kuva on that kind of experiment, since it's so rare and necessary for their own continued existence. And even more unlikely after the discovery of Tenno children, since they not only wanted them to fight, but also to serve as hosts for themselves (as the Grineer Queen's plot was centred around) when they were done fighting.

We also know from the multiple Infested-linked lore parts that they were created first as an answer to the Sentients, living organisms that could adapt and be controlled, it's genuinely a logical progression that the Rhino Prime entry was actually just further experimentation into the Infested until the subject escaped and went rogue, leading one person to make the desperate connection between some readings he was getting from the sleeping children, and the receptors on the Infested creatures he was making.

The Warframes we know were created because of this discovery, what they were designing in the Rhino Prime excerpt was not yet, or possibly even originally not supposed to be, a Warframe.

Rhino Prime's codex entry proves quite a lot of things, several have been overshadowed by being flat out told things, but others are 100% fact now.

Firstly: The golem within the frame is based on Infestation, specifically the Helminth variety. This would place it after the development of the infestation as a weapon against the Sentients, as the Helminth strain is a perfected form of the lesser strain (Dev-confirmed) that was used for the war.

Secondly: The powers of a Warframe come from the golem, not from void energy specifically. We know this because the golem, acting without an operator to power the body, used Rhino's abilities. This would then mean that the golems were capable of using the powers, albeit probably not as long as an operator-controlled frame can.

Thirdly: The golems were capable of independent movement and thought. The golem ran down the hall, the golem used various abilities to engage combat more effectively, the golem chased after potential targets. These all require thought and mobility, and since we know fact 1, it means the Warframe is capable of the same thing. The difference is the Warframe has been kept in stasis when not in-use, and its functions have been puppeteered and overridden by the operator when not in stasis, which easily can lead to the reason why the frames don't move of their own accord when not being transferred to. Hearing the cries of its operator in direct danger, something that had not happened in centuries if not ever, spurred the frame to take action. It wasn't much, it had been a long time since it had done anything of its own before, but it was enough to end the problem. Whether or not it knew breaking the sword would help or if it was simply trying to un-impale itself so it could try one more time to fight back I don't know nor do I think it matters. It moved.

Fourthly: Transference without a device powering it is a full-dive kind. If the operator was using transference to move the frame, it would have vanished from the Stalker's grip and gone to the frame itself. We have no instance of the operators moving things with their minds without them being in a device that allows it or without them directly merging with the thing they are controlling. Until we see that, it is only speculation that the operator was controlling the actions.

Fifthly: It gives us a timeline on when this took place, which is never bad because it cleans up loose ends. This would have taken place before the Warframe project began so before Ballas looked to the Ten-Zero survivors and thought to weaponize them. Where it lies after Margulis's therapy though isn't fully confirmed. With the children being in cryostorage at a facility engaging in dangerous infested research for a new weapon, its likely the kids were still being held there as a protective measure for the Orokin. They didn't know the threat the kids represented fully yet, so lock em up and put em on ice. More info on Margulis will hopefully arrive with the Sacrifice, so perhaps clarification on this can be found.

[ObviousLee]

I still maintain the process is prototype, mass production model, prime in terms of design and creation, but at this point it can be either or depending on which route DE decides to take.

[(XBOX)MintyFreshMike]

On 3/31/2018 at 10:32 PM, (XB1)psyops6 said:

Was not able to find this by browsing, so I will go ahead and ask the question. Would it be possible to give the option to change genders on characters? Sure it's cool the way it is, but just think about a male fire character or a female ice character and so on. I think this could be highly desired and you could charge a small platinum fee for the option to take effect if players chose to do so. Just thought I'd share my opinion on a way to give players even more options on such and incredible game.

Idk. Every frame is based off something. Changing the gender on some frames would be weird and would probably ruin their design. Imagine a female nidus. Oh boy. Btw, that means the devs now have to draw up and design another look for every frame