Can we get some update on the chat moderation?

[DarkStryder]

On 4/11/2018 at 6:20 AM, krc473 said:

Why do you even need to tell people in the public chats that? 

 

 

On 4/11/2018 at 6:50 AM, Ferah_Frithu said:

This isn't a dating app/website, and your sexuality just doesn't belong here. Discuss that in DMs/PMs, and not a public game chat. 

 

This attitude strikes me as for more homophobic than the "slur" "thats gay". It seems youre fine with someone being homosexual.. as long as they never admit it and it is never spoken of under any circumstances. its not that a gay person needs to constantly talk about it its that they shouldnt be afraid to talk about it. 

 

 

[DarkStryder]

On 4/11/2018 at 7:34 AM, --Q--Voltage said:

I think that to solve this, the bot should be updated so that it helps you reach support and links you specific rules instead of vaguely saying "no profanity" when you open the chat. I also think hiring more chat moderators per region would be helpful.

the problem is that there are a few specific moderators that have personal agendas they push. there is one mod in particular, i know of that has gone on blogs elsewhere calling people pieces of S#&$, and delighting in how many people get banned by her rules. she sees these types of threads and gets off on it. 

[Temptress]

7 minutes ago, DarkStryder said:

the problem is that there are a few specific moderators that have personal agendas they push. there is one mod in particular, i know of that has gone on blogs elsewhere calling people pieces of S#&$, and delighting in how many people get banned by her rules. she sees these types of threads and gets off on it. 

Yeah you should report those actions in that case.

[krc473]

17 minutes ago, DarkStryder said:

its not that a gay person needs to constantly talk about it its that they shouldnt be afraid to talk about it. 

You are correct, but the attitude DE has chosen to take is essentially what I said: "You do not need to discuss it in public chats. This is a game, not a dating site. There is no reason [I mean, there are, but nevermind that] to discuss this kind of thing in region or other public chats". No, I do not agree with DE's stance. People should be free to discuss stuff - but the bot does not read context, so anything that "could" be derogatory gets a kick.

[DarkStryder]

On 4/11/2018 at 2:43 PM, DeMonkey said:

Afaik the main defintion of a trap in this context is a guy dressing as a chick with the intent to deceive other guys, which to me sounds pretty scummy.

Therefore Nezha cannot be a trap as they're simply a video game character, video game characters cannot have 'intent' unless the devs write it in, which they clearly didn't. People therefore label Nezha a trap solely because their appearance is feminine which automatically labels any feminine looking male a trap, regardless of whether they intend to look that way or not.

That just shows a complete lack of respect for those who, curiously, don't want to be referred to as an object designed to deceive and hurt others.

For that reason I can see why we'd be stopped from using it, there is absolutely no reason to call Nezha it.

Inb4 snowflake, insecure and SJW related comments. Because explaining things triggers people.

traps constitute an entire genre of anime, manga, and fiction where males dress as women as a sophisticated hobby, the straight men they "trap" are like "oh no its a penis..why am i still here.. oh the penis makes it better oh no.." its a forbidden fruit kind of fantasy scenario and the reader is into it is not scummy at all. the reason nezha is always called one is bc one version of his mythology is that of a young man that liked to be pretty (youmay have noticed the lithe frame and hair buns with streamers) plus if you look up nezhas art in Smite the art is a pretty make up clad "girl"

the word trap isnt a bad word anywhere else except here, seemingly bc one specific mod is bothered by it. 

now lets see if your comment about people being triggered from explanations is true

[DarkStryder]

10 minutes ago, Server said:

Yeah you should report those actions in that case.

the forum post that had screen shots from the blog (how i found out about) has been deleted, no doubt by the totally impartial moderators

[DarkStryder]

8 minutes ago, krc473 said:

You are correct, but the attitude DE has chosen to take is essentially what I said: "You do not need to discuss it in public chats. This is a game, not a dating site. There is no reason [I mean, there are, but nevermind that] to discuss this kind of thing in region or other public chats". No, I do not agree with DE's stance. People should be free to discuss stuff - but the bot does not read context, so anything that "could" be derogatory gets a kick.

i dont understand why everyone should have to walk on eggshells bc a few people are incapable of regulating their own emotions. this is the internet, people quote memes and make "edgy" jokes, or just dont expect a level of absurdly overbearing regulations that dont exist elsewhere. i was kicked from region i believe for using the word gender. does that sound reasonable? 

[DarkStryder]

14 hours ago, rune_me said:

It shouldn't be a surprise that a chat server run by a big company that does international business has a pretty strict policy when it comes to what can and can't be said.

You don't need a list of words, you just need to apply some common sense before you post anything. Not getting banned from region chat is not hard. 10's of thousands of players succeeds at it every day, so you probably can as well.

the rules arent being designed by DE for their business interests there are a few specific mods that are on a crusade. there are plenty of platforms that are nowhere near as absurd as here. 

i have been kicked/banned/muted whatever the term is for the following

privately messaging a friend, i believe the bot looks at direct messages or @s and based on key words assumes youre harassing that person

accidentally typing in the wrong channel, wts etc but then you cant even use the correct channel

correctly using words that could theoretically be used poorly examples gay or gender

despite being civil, having the incorrect political opinions

getting baited by a question into finishing a meme or hitting a keyword

 

region chat was discussing gender swap skins for characters and i made a comment referencing the gender option from early development and it triggered a kick, there is no common sense involved

 

 

 

[DeMonkey]

58 minutes ago, DarkStryder said:

traps constitute an entire genre of anime, manga, and fiction where males dress as women as a sophisticated hobby, the straight men they "trap" are like "oh no its a penis..why am i still here.. oh the penis makes it better oh no.." its a forbidden fruit kind of fantasy scenario and the reader is into it is not scummy at all. the reason nezha is always called one is bc one version of his mythology is that of a young man that liked to be pretty (youmay have noticed the lithe frame and hair buns with streamers) plus if you look up nezhas art in Smite the art is a pretty make up clad "girl"

I'm sure that's one definition, however words generally have more than one meaning. The meaning I have heard can easily be considered offensive by others, therefore trigger word.

And I've seen Nezha plenty, looks like nothing more than a boy, which curiously matches all his lore. If said boy wants to wear hair streamers and pretty clothing then I'm not going to judge, and I'm certainly not going to label them as something "designed" to deceive and hurt. I don't understand how you cannot see why that would be offensive? 

Your definition of the word is not the only definition of the word, and to assume as much is naive. Hell, as far as I understand this is only the modern interpretation of the word, meaning the defintion I have heard has been around longer.

Also, just quote multiple people at once. Otherwise it's just a spam of posts from you, people following the thread get the same notification 10 times in a row and the thread is repeatedly bumped to the top, despite it still just being you. 

Edited April 13, 2018 by DeMonkey

[NervousTrashcat]

3 minutes ago, DarkStryder said:

despite being civil, having the incorrect political opinions

In general, any political discussion is not tolerated, regardless of how civil it may be or any particular opinions voiced.
If you feel an individual mod is biased in their enforcement of that, feel free to report them.

[rune_me]

56 minutes ago, DarkStryder said:

privately messaging a friend, i believe the bot looks at direct messages or @s and based on key words assumes youre harassing that person

I have send private messages to many friends and never gotten kicked for it. You got kicked for using a word, not for sending private messages. Some words will get you kicked flagged by the bot and kicked. Obviously a bot can not determine context and does not know who are your friends and who you are genuinely harassing. Like I said, common sense.

59 minutes ago, DarkStryder said:

accidentally typing in the wrong channel, wts etc but then you cant even use the correct channel

This is fine. We are all tired of seeing WTS and LF messages in region chat. Kicking them is doing the rest of us a favor. Taking a deep breath and applying common sense would have allowed you to notice the mistake before posting. 

1 hour ago, DarkStryder said:

correctly using words that could theoretically be used poorly examples gay or gender

Once again, a bot looking for keywords can not determine context so the only sensible thing is to avoid those words all together. Once again, common sense.

1 hour ago, DarkStryder said:

despite being civil, having the incorrect political opinions

"Incorrect political opinions" is a curious choice of word. Since you describe them as "incorrect" you must of course suspect that they are not liked in region chat (otherwise you would not use that word to describe). If you know that your political opinions are considered incorrect by whoever runs the chat, it isn't exactly smart to go into the chat and state them. I say many things in my day to day life that I absolutely know the mods would ban me for if I typed them into region chat. So I don't. Once again, common sense.

1 hour ago, DarkStryder said:

getting baited by a question into finishing a meme or hitting a keyword

If only you had applied some common sense and stayed away from the bait.

1 hour ago, DarkStryder said:

there is no common sense involved

Common sense could have prevented you from getting kicked in every example you gave. It has everything to do with it. Like I said before, almost everyone in region chat succeeds every day in not getting kicked. If the rest of us can, I'm sure you can as well. It's not difficult.

[Fallen_Echo]

9 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

No. Not in my opinion. Not when it's a counter to hate speech and potential lawsuits.

Can't be discriminated against if you can't say anything potentially discrimatory. 

But thats it, even in your comment you say that the word gay is something negative. In my opinion this is discriminating a group of humans to be not able to label themselves.

I gotta agree this law is as vague as it can get, theres no way someone can use this up in a legit way.

[DeMonkey]

2 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

But thats it, even in your comment you say that the word gay is something negative.

I did not.

[Fallen_Echo]

9 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And regarding the last paragraph. There are surely things in the ToS or EULA that covers what is and what isnt appropriate for the chat. Even though the game may be M, it doesnt mean the chat is open for everything. M is just a guideline, parents can still allow their minors to play by turning off the things that put the game at an M rating, like gore in this case. There isnt exactly strong language or nudity in the game. I think I've heard one "inappropriate" word, namely "*@##$es" in the index. So no reason why in depth sexual preference discussions should be part of the chat. And with politics and religion, it is simply a case of keeping a neutral ground, which never happens when those subjects are allowed to be discussed. It only leads to toxicity. And it isnt just about the people arguing it, people not even part of the discussion can get hit by flak. That is why political and religious discussions should stay in tells if people fancy discussing those things on a game about space ninjas.

Now the problem here is the ToS while it has some basic guideline on what can be posted and what not, its all limited to this website only. Theres no part in the ToS or the EULA that limits what can be talked about the ingame chat.

There is a long line of stuff what should not be talked about but that just as vague as the canadian law someone posted here.

Now it would be nice to get an official statement on this or just update the chat ban policy to make a bit more sense but i doubt it will happen.

 

12 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

I did not.

"Can't be discriminated against if you can't say anything potentially discrimatory. " This implifies that gay is a discriminatory word by your opinion.

[rune_me]

4 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

"Can't be discriminated against if you can't say anything potentially discrimatory. " This implifies that gay is a discriminatory word by your opinion.

"Can be a negative word" is not the same as "Is a negative word".

[DeMonkey]

Just now, Fallen_Echo said:

This implifies that gay is a discriminatory word by your opinion.

Not even slightly.

"Can't be discriminated against if you can't say anything potentially discrimatory. "

A) I didn't state this was my opinion, it's a fact. People cannot use the term ''gay'' or ''trap'' in a discriminatory manner if it cannot be said at all.

B) I said ''potentially'', you know what that means, right? It essentially means ''can be'' in this context. 'Gay'' can be used in a discriminatory manner, again, not opinion, that's a fact.

Please don't misconstrue what I said.

[Fallen_Echo]

2 hours ago, rune_me said:

"Can be a negative word" is not the same as "Is a negative word".

2 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Not even slightly.

"Can't be discriminated against if you can't say anything potentially discrimatory. "

A) I didn't state this was my opinion, it's a fact. People cannot use the term ''gay'' or ''trap'' in a discriminatory manner if it cannot be said at all.

B) I said ''potentially'', you know what that means, right? It essentially means ''can be'' in this context. 'Gay'' can be used in a discriminatory manner, again, not opinion, that's a fact.

Please don't misconstrue what I said.

 

Ahh, sorry my bad. You guys are right.

 

[JDxBarracka]

If you are unable to tell the difference between what is appropriate or not in a public environment

Then you either need to have a chat with security official or have a guardian to accompany you.

You are complete control of what words comes out of your mouth but you are not in control of the consequences of your actions. 

Don't even try the "hey this guy got away with X,Y,Z why am i caught" well that guy did'nt get caught you did.

The code of conduct is completely there for you to see, nobody is an exception to it.

[DeMonkey]

9 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

 

Ahh, sorry my bad. You guys are right.

 

Honestly, I'm a fan of "every word is okay", as opposed to "some words are okay". But I don't have legal obligations, nor a business to think about.

Chat absolutely needs to be changed imo, I feel you should be told how long you're suspended for, and warnings instead of instant kicks for certain things like all caps or whatever.

But when it comes to certain words it's DE's chat and these are words they don't want to see for reasons, I can support that.

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, Fallen_Echo said:

Now the problem here is the ToS while it has some basic guideline on what can be posted and what not, its all limited to this website only. Theres no part in the ToS or the EULA that limits what can be talked about the ingame chat.

There is a long line of stuff what should not be talked about but that just as vague as the canadian law someone posted here.

Now it would be nice to get an official statement on this or just update the chat ban policy to make a bit more sense but i doubt it will happen.

 

"Can't be discriminated against if you can't say anything potentially discrimatory. " This implifies that gay is a discriminatory word by your opinion.

There is a EULA and a ToS for the game aswell, not just the forums. Every game has either one, the other or both.

[Slade745]

I had personal issues that actually got me suspended recently this week(still suspended as of right now), due to actually having a fun and friendly conversation in Design Council about computer peripherals and the Razer brand, which I stated "aesthetics" all spaced out and this prompted bot to "kick" me from chat because I "spammed" which ticked me off and i told the bot(which was 100% automated with no human control) to "f u" and thus suspended me.

Quote

To all in this thread that remotely mentions "gay".

After reading this entire thread, I think that it is funny, almost ironic(if i'm using that word right) that I see people saying "why would you want to talk about the topic of being gay in the chat/game" when literally that's one of the main focused upon point here. And I admit that while some views may seem unsettling here, but by the end of the day, my take away is that we ALL would've be suspended because we even began thinking about this topic due to the bot being an automated system that flags any mention of the word "gay" and not the context of it.

[Fallen_Echo]

9 hours ago, DeMonkey said:

Honestly, I'm a fan of "every word is okay", as opposed to "some words are okay". But I don't have legal obligations, nor a business to think about.

Chat absolutely needs to be changed imo, I feel you should be told how long you're suspended for, and warnings instead of instant kicks for certain things like all caps or whatever.

But when it comes to certain words it's DE's chat and these are words they don't want to see for reasons, I can support that.

I guess i can agree with that. 

As long as we get a nice message about what did we done wrong, when and how long we are banned im okay with it.

1 hour ago, Slade745 said:

I had personal issues that actually got me suspended recently this week(still suspended as of right now), due to actually having a fun and friendly conversation in Design Council about computer peripherals and the Razer brand, which I stated "aesthetics" all spaced out and this prompted bot to "kick" me from chat because I "spammed" which ticked me off and i told the bot(which was 100% automated with no human control) to "f u" and thus suspended me.

I think i heard a similar story last year in a similar thread. Someone was talking about the design council and misspelled someones name and the bot autobanned him for it. If i remember right he changed up two letters maybe and it formed a profanity or something.

I dont know whats the reason profanity is not allowed in its basic form when we have a chat filter what is supposedly there to filter profanity.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

8 minutes ago, Fallen_Echo said:

I dont know whats the reason profanity is not allowed in its basic form when we have a chat filter what is supposedly there to filter profanity.

Except profanity is allowed.  You're conflating profanity with hateful slurs.  Please don't do that, they are not the same.

15 hours ago, DarkStryder said:

i dont understand why everyone should have to walk on eggshells bc a few people are incapable of regulating their own emotions.

And, I don't understand why you think that your emotions about getting kicked should be more important than anyone else's.  Further, I don't understand why you think that people that are the targets of hate speech should be the ones that need to change instead of the people actually using hate speech.  That's completely backwards.

[rune_me]

Rune's rule of thumb #1: if you have to stop what you're doing and wonder if what you just typed is going to get you kicked, then it almost certainly will.

Rune's rule of thumb #2: if you have to start your sentence with "no offense, but," then offense will almost certainly be taken.

Rune's rule of thumb #3: If you have to debate over whether a word is offensive or not, then it almost certainly is.

Edited April 13, 2018 by rune_me

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

Except profanity is allowed.  You're conflating profanity with hateful slurs.  Please don't do that, they are not the same.

Literally the first chat message you get when you log is telling you that profanity is not allowed.