Gara's 4th is useless as a defensive ability

[----Fenrir----]

Just got Gara 2 days ago and I must say her nerfed 4th ability is completely useless for defensive purposes. The problem with it is that, unlike Frost's globe, you can not count on it to actually defend you and your teammates. And no, don't tell me Frost's globe has health as well. Because those are 2 completely different mechanics. Any decent Frost players knows that it's easy to keep the globe going no matter what as long as you have energy. There could be a million level 999 enemies and they still could not even scratch the globe as long as you use the invulnerability period and re-cast it every 3 seconds. And in more normal circumstances Frost's globes tells you how much strength the globe has left so it's easy to instantly re-cast it when necessary.

Now Gara's 4th has none of that. It does not tell you how much health the barrier has left and neither can you recast it instantly because of the way it expands so there is quiet a delay before you can have a new barrier standing after one breaks. Add in the fact that level ~20 enemies seem to be able to break it in no time and you have a defense barrier you simply can not depend on at all.

As a defensive ability it's thus completely useless.  

 

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So to be a bit more constructive I came with an idea to make her 4th ability consistent and dependable without making it OP. It's actually really simple. Having a barrier enemies can neither pass through nor shoot through is kinda OP, no doubt about that. Yet the health system that works with Frost's globe simply doesn't do it for Gara because of different mechanics like the expanding nature of her "4", the inability to stack barriers like Frost can or to re-cast it immediately.

So how about we throw the health away and make the barrier indestructible and only timer based like it was before BUT also make it no longer stop enemies directly and only gun fire and projectiles similar to Frost's globe? That would balance it out without making it useless. And to go with the glass/blinding theme Gara has already going for her, enemies passing through the barrier could become blinded (it's a shiny glass barrier after all) for lets say 10 seconds (base scaling with duration mods) when passing the barrier. That would kinda put her 4th into balance with the slow down (and freeze with augment) effect Frost's globe inflicts on enemies entering the globe.

Imho those changes would make her barrier an alternative to Frost without making him obsolete.

Edited April 12, 2018 by ----Fenrir----

[Entharias]

How about using it as a CC and then aoe nuke?
All you can think of is defense? Really?

[----Fenrir----]

Gerade eben schrieb Nakrast:

How about using it as a CC and then aoe nuke?
All you can think of is defense? Really?

As CC it's pretty useless as well because thanks to the way it expands there is simply to much delay between you pressing the button and stuff actually happening. And as a damage ability it seems to have only mediocre scaling and needs a lot more effort and time to achieve what frames like Volt can do by pressing a single button.

[PsiWarp]

Coat at least a few enemies in glass before you cool the barrier down, since Mass Vitrify takes their part of their hitpoints and add it to each segment of the wall, making it scale.

You're also invulnerable while expanding the wall and you have Splinter Storm, ideally sitting at 90% damage reduction, that you can have protecting your allies and the objective. Push comes to shove just plop down Spectrorage on the biggest group of enemies you can see to make them only attack mirrors, even if it probably will blow up instantly, it's better than doing nothing.

[NinthAria]

Dunno what level 20 enemies you're fighting, but I've had pretty good results playing Gara on point-defense missions even after the Mass Vitrify changes. Whether or not it's as good as Frost's Snow Globe is up for debate, but if that's where we're setting the bar for defense-oriented powers, I think you're going to find virtually everything else falls short. Off the top of my head, Mass Vitrify scales comparably well (if not better) with masses of enemies since the absorb is based on their health instead of a 4-second damage window, has much greater horizontal range, and allows you to fine-tune the radius by cancelling it early (or not). On top of that, it blocks enemy pathing in addition to attacks and gunfire. Its main weakness compared to Snow Globe, in my mind anyways, is its lack of overhead cover, which makes it less than ideal--but certainly still useful--on multi-level defense tiles like the Void or Grineer galleons. And that's all to say nothing of its offensive interactions with Shattered Lash and Splinter Storm, both of which are quite useful in their own right.

All things considered I'd say Snow Globe is the superior tool for pure defense, but Mass Vitrify is far from useless.

[bluepheonix13]

Up to sortie level, I'd much rather have a good Gara in my team, because she is much more versatile and does not need to be stationary to defend (seriously, did you try coating a few enemies within the wall? It will hold out so much more and you don't need to recast every 10 seconds). After that, I'd say Limbo becomes king with a dedicated spam-3-Frost in second place. 

Edit: Also, she is much better at defending an operative, because she can give him 90% DR and he cannot walk through Mass Vitrify, thus being able to contain him in a safe spot. 

 

Edited April 12, 2018 by bluepheonix13

[MunsuLight]

Mass vitrify damage not scaling ? Sure against high level armored target it is pretty underwhelming .. but I would say even past 25 minutes in kuva survival it Still pack hell of a punch ..and if the armor is stripped it can goes even higher

Gara is not as good as a defensive frame as frost . But I would say she is definitely more versatile and her scaling on her 2 is ridiculous. . And she is almost unkillable because of her 90% réduction that include the shield DR and its why I go with à shield gara + rank 3 arcane aegis.. rank 3 arcane barrier + guardian mod from sentinel.. the only thing that almost killed me was à coomba in a sortie..because hé disabled my 2 ..so I popped  his helm got 2 again .. and all was good

 

Yeah I so agree wall kinda like paper on sortie 2 or 3..but before that it is doing well  and like everyone said .. if you want more health to it just let it expand and capture some enemies ..

[----Fenrir----]

Seriously, you can tell me the ability is fine all you want yet fact is that Gara is a rare frame to see in random groups which is rather uncommon considering I believe she was the last new frame to come out and new frames are usually everywhere until the next new frame comes out. And I believe I never saw anyone ask for her in recruitment chat either.

And at the end of the day, looking at what people are doing usually gives you a much better idea of what they are really thinking than listening to what they are saying, and what they do, or rather, not do, is playing Gara.

 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

4 hours ago, ----Fenrir---- said:

Seriously, you can tell me the ability is fine all you want yet fact is that Gara is a rare frame to see in random groups which is rather uncommon considering I believe she was the last new frame to come out and new frames are usually everywhere until the next new frame comes out. And I believe I never saw anyone ask for her in recruitment chat either.

And at the end of the day, looking at what people are doing usually gives you a much better idea of what they are really thinking than listening to what they are saying, and what they do, or rather, not do, is playing Gara.

 

I don't see harrow very often nor see people in recruiting asking for him when i'm on.  Doesn't mean anything and is just fluff to try and validate your frustration.

Frosts 4 is a pure defensive move.  It's meant to lock an area and protect.  This is seen by it's stacking method, how the health is gained, and that it slows/freezes enemies occasionally.  Gara's is not a pure defensive ability.  It has defensive properties with some aggressive applications.  Any enemy in her range of the ability is slowed and then stopped Which makes them (I believe) take extra damage.  The barriers also take a portion of the enemies health and shields.  Which gives it scaling on top of being effected by your stats some what.  Enemies that are frozen while under an effect of status will continue to take the status effect btw.  Which can be strong.

It also refreshes your splinter storm whenever you cast it.  Splinter storm gives you 90% DR.  On top of that you can use lash to shatter the shield early for some decent damage in an AOE form on top of it buffing up the damage of your splinter storm.  That can indef scale.  which means you can in 3 ish casts can actually kill 150 bombards in a few ticks JUST by walking near them.

I'm not explaining this to you because I think you don't know how she works.  I'm explaining it to you to try to get you to understand WHY it's not amazing as frosts globe at defending.  So.  If you want a frame that is about defending an area and can do it well even into sortie content or extended endless pick a frame that's designed for that.  Her mass vitrify is plenty good at defending in most of the content in the game.  and when you step into content where it's not as good it still serves as decent cc, debuff, and buff.

[Leqesai]

With two days of experience playing the frame you should consider that you're not yet an expert with the character and, thus, probably don't fully understand the best way to use her abilities. 

The fact that you're using level 20 content in your remarks leads me to believe that you just don't know how to build her effectively.

 

Mass Vitrify works just fine.

If you're using it to cover a defense point, without coating enemies, you're doing it wrong.

With an appropriate build this ability can be a very functional barrier. I brought it into sortie content and had no problems with it doing what it is intended to do (re-route enemies, mass CC, and give your team some breathing room.

 

You typically want to bullet jump into a group of enemies, pop the 4 and let it expand to a large size. Then you can mop up the enemies coated by the glass while you're protected in the safe zone you created.

 

 

 

[GrimmMonsoon.ttv]

This annoys me beyond belief, as a Gara Defense Main. I’ve put five Forma into my Gara. I’ve carefully calculated how to mod her. Her wall is impenetrable in Sortie level mobile defense. In yesterday’s Mobile defense on Lua at one stage my wall had 312k health. The only thing able to take it down was a nullifier. 

Youve had Gara for a couple of days. You literally can not possibly have her mechanics perfected yet. 

Gara has AMAZING synergy with Oberon. Gara trumps Frost in that IF her wall cracks, she can quickly recast, and completely freeze enemies. Frost can just slow them down. Plus allies can shoot into the wall. Can’t shoot inside of Frost’s globe. 

With experimentation I’m sure Gara could even be usable on Spy missions. 

 

Gara is literally one of the most versatile warframes in the game. 

 

Please, please take the time to learn how to play her. Properly. 

[SixDimensions]

6 minutes ago, GrimMonsoon said:

With experimentation I’m sure Gara could even be usable on Spy missions. 

And I know what I'm trying later today. I hadn't considered the possibility of just turning enemies to glass and taking out cameras all at once. I wonder how well Atlas would do too. New theories to test!

[Leqesai]

49 minutes ago, SixDimensions said:

And I know what I'm trying later today. I hadn't considered the possibility of just turning enemies to glass and taking out cameras all at once. I wonder how well Atlas would do too. New theories to test!

Yeah it sounds pretty fun and effective if it works properly.