Ember Needs a Buff

[Buttaface]

21 hours ago, Djego27 said:

 given that there is no much difference between high level Ember builds, it all comes down to duration being a dump stat, strength you main stat and choosing a efficiency that allows you a sufficient utilization of accelerant and other abilities to play with:

Generally true, but there are other ways to skin the Ember cat. I play Ember mostly melee now, run Rush, Handspring, Primed Flow, Quick Thinking instead of Primed Cont, Fleeting, Redirection, and Power Drift. Arcane Guardian and Strike, with a long range Condition Overload very fast swinging, status heavy Balla Zaw staff with Exodia Brave on it, Life Strike, Dispatch Overdrive and a good (but cheap... 150 or so plat) riven (no MS or BR, just condition overload). Ranged weapons vary, usually Atomos on secondary. Duration on 2 is about 73%, so agree to dump it some. Power Str is 155ish. The channeling efficiency in Zenurik with the other energy buffs there and Exodia Brave mean the energy rarely drops below 400 even spamming 2, a decent buffer for Quick Thinking if needed, and it hardly ever is. I run more range without Quick Thinking doing the high level bounties and have only gone down once on her. Never go down with QT on unless I get unlucky against a host of 150 gunners in the simulacrum. It moves very fast, and can usually kill everything in range before the stun wears off, if not, stun again. As long as she can find something to hit, she, like lots of squishies with some of the newer/easier to get now stuff in WF, is essentially immortal.

I bet they will eventually put some type of "mini lobby" into Onslaught that gives the frame a 5-8 second invuln period on portal entry. That would address Onslaught and squishier frames solo issue some.

 

Edited May 2, 2018 by Buttaface

[Serialkillerwhale]

What do you guys think?

[DroopingPuppy]

A warframe that has no advantage except for cause ability damage but can't make any damage is simply pointless. Why WoF's range have to be reduced, despite it was already short enough and Ember needs to move all the times in order to cause some damage it. Now, with the reduced range she can't make any damage at all. What the hell?

[(XBOX)Artakka]

I would be curious to see what would happen if embers wof damage was changed to damage a percentage of an enemies health, regardless of level. It would nerf it considerably at lower levels, but make her valuable in terms of sorties. Abilities like accelerant could increase the rate at which she damages the enemy. Not sure this would be good tho.

[goga_gola]

I'd like to see World on Fire act a little closer to what the name implies, since it's been less 'World is currently on Fire' and more 'World is periodically Exploding under people'.

Maybe have World on Fire ignite and distract enemies with a Heat proc instead of trying to balance its damage? Wouldn't mind seeing Ember summon a swirling vortex to follow her so she turns into a CC machine.

[Buttaface]

8 hours ago, DroopingPuppy said:

A warframe that has no advantage except for cause ability damage but can't make any damage is simply pointless. Why WoF's range have to be reduced, despite it was already short enough and Ember needs to move all the times in order to cause some damage it. Now, with the reduced range she can't make any damage at all. What the hell?

Ember creates -immense- damage for the whole team, provided the team is weapon based and not just aoe/aimbot cheese. Like Nova, Ember's CC boosts team damage, the 3, and especially the augmented 2. If overkill is desired, and the team is organized enough for a bit of micro management, she can go more full support and squeeze on the Fireball Frenzy augment for damage buffing that becomes truly insane with only moderately high power str.

With decent efficiency and energy management buffs from focus, arcanes, etc., these are all spammable, no weak points need be hit, no problems of speeding/slowing exist, she's up there with rhino as a strong buffer because every time she hits 2, the room stops entirely for a couple seconds, and she can hit two over and over and over. No other frame can spam-stop the whole room/map while simultaneously boosting the team's damage astronomically. WOF is also spammable, turn on, turn off, turn on, turn off, but everything is usually dead long before it's needed, and not talking star chart either.

Ember is in a very good place right now.

Edited May 2, 2018 by Buttaface

[(PSN)chris1pat8twins]

I got to a point where I’m using an accelerant build to make my ignis more powerful on top of making the enemies more vulnerable to fire. Just wish there were more fire building mods. Otherwise 2 embers with the first augment mod enhancing each other even more is the only other fire damage building method. Other than chroma but this is about ember.  

[MirageKnight]

 

8 hours ago, Buttaface said:

Ember creates -immense- damage for the whole team, provided the team is weapon based and not just aoe/aimbot cheese.

Yet...Ember is still very much capable of AoE cheese.

8 hours ago, Buttaface said:

Ember is in a very good place right now.

Which is almost exactly back where DE started. She still remains one of the go-to 'Frames for Hydron in terms of "efficiency" and WoF spam is still a thing.

Meaning that despite all that tweaking, the devs completely failed to fix one of the important things they said they'd address...namely her ability to sit on an objective in Defense and make life boring for everyone else.

They did make her more vulnerable to enemies, but that doesn't mean much if she can kill things before they can become a threat. On a positive note, at least her other abilities are a bit more useful.

The only buff she needs is in terms of survivability...and as far as WoF is concerned, I feel DE needs to go back to the drawing board and try again.

 

[DroopingPuppy]

17 hours ago, Buttaface said:

Ember creates -immense- damage for the whole team, provided the team is weapon based and not just aoe/aimbot cheese. Like Nova, Ember's CC boosts team damage, the 3, and especially the augmented 2. If overkill is desired, and the team is organized enough for a bit of micro management, she can go more full support and squeeze on the Fireball Frenzy augment for damage buffing that becomes truly insane with only moderately high power str.

With decent efficiency and energy management buffs from focus, arcanes, etc., these are all spammable, no weak points need be hit, no problems of speeding/slowing exist, she's up there with rhino as a strong buffer because every time she hits 2, the room stops entirely for a couple seconds, and she can hit two over and over and over. No other frame can spam-stop the whole room/map while simultaneously boosting the team's damage astronomically. WOF is also spammable, turn on, turn off, turn on, turn off, but everything is usually dead long before it's needed, and not talking star chart either.

Ember is in a very good place right now.

Pointless.

Ember's 3 is just a worse Electrical Shield, which has flat point of buffing area.

2 is only usable with fire damage which is not compatible with the others, just buffing Ember herself.

In order to use 4 you need to recast for every single 6-8 sec. It also means you don't have enough energy to cast 2, and you don't have the time for something else.

Simply put, why not just using some launcher weapons and also enjoy the other usable ability on the other frames?

And, Banshee just outclass Ember at all for now, Saryn can just spamming 1 and kills everything if you simply want to keep casting the ability and nothing else to kill the enemy. Also Octavia&Equinox are already superior at killing on the low level.

 

For now only the fools, new to the game(and have to gain the mastery rank experience of her), or someone who likes digging the worse things rather than good stuffs will pick Ember.

Edited May 3, 2018 by DroopingPuppy

[FoxFX]

On 2018-04-26 at 12:35 AM, YUNoJump said:

I'm going to make people angry with this statement, but until DE just puts their foot down and deletes WoF entirely, Ember cannot be a good frame based on DE's "more involvement = more power" skill philosophy.

WoF by design requires no effort; it auto-targets enemies and all you have to do is occasionally turn it off and on, which is also the same for any other ability in the game. DE has tried time and time again to make Ember relevant to endgame while keeping WoF intact for the die hard fans, but they also try to limit its damage so that Ember can't wipe Sorties without even seeing the enemies. It's just plain impossible for WoF to exist while maintaining a pro-skill philosophy.

Yes, it would make a lot of people angry, but anyone who says that Ember is on equal footing with any other frame in the game is either projecting, or they have spent so much time playing her that they have a skewed idea of what "good" is. She's trash because her abilities' core aspects are flawed, not her numbers.

 

I've already posted in my thread a theorycraft on a more consistent Ember passive. Unfortunately, that thread will soon end since it has yet to have any feedback on it.

However, I've already prepared an example of an Ember suggestion where World on Fire is no more and with the passive idea I've presented.

For now, all I can leave is this bit if there is any reception for it:

 

The core problem I see currently in Ember now is that she has no 'niche.' No true selling value that separates her from other Warframes.

When I take a look at every other Warframe outside of Ember, I see certain aspects of them that separates themselves from others without the use of Augments.

Where it is Volt's speed and capability of carrying a shield, Frost using his ice powers to create a protective dome, Saryn's spore spreading tactics, Oberon's Hallowed Ground and support/healing, Nova can teleport enemies far distances and can create a large scale debuff weakening enemies, Mag now can strip both enemy armor and shields and creates a crowd controlling burst damage ability, Ash is practically the only 'ninja' Warframe, Rhino is capable of having the Rhino can boost damage from all sources and is one of the tankier Warframes that actually specializes in Blast, ...I hope you can understand where I am getting at this point.

At base, Ember technically has a quick stun with damage multiplier and three ways to set enemies on fire. There can be something that can be done for what [DE] calls the glass-cannon Fire Warframe especially when it comes to her passive. Even with the energy you can generate, Ember's current passive is too conditional and can be too costly to utilize (even if you use the Javlock gimmick, you still put yourself in danger). Ember's passive should be consistent and her playstyle needs to be more than underwhelming version of other Warframe powers.

Ember is capable of being changed to have an overarching playstyle separate from other Warframes; to be unique but also effective. But we need to see this from a bottom-up design aspect as to how Ember could be changed to meet the whole glass-cannon style, the theme of fire, and to address what [DE] was trying to accomplish with Ember's recent rework.

[(XBOX)ZenithLord 42]

I've said that the 2018 Ember rework is garbage on many other threads! I like the tweaks DE made to her first 3 powers, but her WoF is terrible as of now! 

Four things that might "fix" her World on Fire woes: 

1. Revert 2018 changes on WoF, but make it do a flat damage amount and a scalable damage amount based on enemy health. It should do less damage than before the rework, but strength mods should dramatically increase status chance of enemies panicking. This way she can CC and be more effective across all levels as opposed to kill everything below level 30; which alienates players and relegates her to the trash heap. 

2. Remove the auto target feature and make it resemble Sargus Ruk's WoF. It should do area damage in a cone from the epicenter with the chance to knock down enemies that are in the center of the blast. 

3. Make Ember's WoF similar to Equinox's Mend/Maim ability. It would function as an Aura and enemies would have a chance to catch on fire, the chance goes up the closer they are to Ember. They also take more damage from heat and take heat damage when they are within range. The only things that increase as enemies get closer to Ember are status chance and the actual damage. Her augment for WoF would instead knock enemies down after being within the heat aura after a few seconds. Or it could proc just like the slash effect on Equinox's #4. 

4. Remove WoF and come up with something else. As she is now, Ember is painful, literally and figuratively, to use! 

My 4 cents... 

[Buttaface]

10 hours ago, DroopingPuppy said:

Ember's 3 is just a worse Electrical Shield, which has flat point of buffing area.

2 is only usable with fire damage which is not compatible with the others, just buffing Ember herself.

In order to use 4 you need to recast for every single 6-8 sec. It also means you don't have enough energy to cast 2, and you don't have the time for something else.

Simply put, why not just using some launcher weapons and also enjoy the other usable ability on the other frames?

And, Banshee just outclass Ember at all for now, Saryn can just spamming 1 and kills everything if you simply want to keep casting the ability and nothing else to kill the enemy. Also Octavia&Equinox are already superior at killing on the low level.

 

For now only the fools, new to the game(and have to gain the mastery rank experience of her), or someone who likes digging the worse things rather than good stuffs will pick Ember.

First sentence, false. The two skills are apples and oranges. Ember's 3 is radial and provides procs/CC in addition to the damage and damage buff. Volt's shield is a great skill, but the two aren't comparable, are different. You just have to be in the ring to get the damage buff, not behind the shield. Much easier to capitalize on with a team running around doing different things or facing different directions.

Second sentence, absurdly false, and reveals you don't know how the power/augment actually works. Flash Accelerant adds the equivalent of a ~90%+ fire damage mod, depending on strength, onto every weapon used in the team in range. I have not tested to see if it affects companions/sentinel weapons. Affected mobs then take ~4-5x damage from that fire damage, again depending on power strength. It also amplifies heat procs similarly, which do not stack like slash, but can still do immense damage when they are crits, subject to things like combo or sniper counters, condition overload, other buffing, etc. and then multiplied by accelerant.

Now, if there is a "dangling" element type on affected weapons, or players are using one of the relatively few pure elemental damage weapons, it will merge with that damage type to form a combination damage, which may be undesirable, but since more teams will run corrosive/cold (or heat) or viral/heat than anything, it will either form blast or increase heat, neither "bad" for the team. Most players, though, are running IPS weapons, with one elemental combo and some utility/dmg boosting mods such as Hunter Munitions, Bladed Rounds, Argon Scope, Condition Overload, Reach, Fury, etc., in addition to the basic mods, most often corrosive or viral, and many players use fire as "extra" damage, so that just gets amplified by the Flash Accelerant. Now you know how it works. You're welcome.

Third Sentence, up through tough sorties and beyond, everything will be dead before needing to even use the 4, but it's cheap to cast and if needed to turn on and off, it provides even more CC, with insignificant drain unless you expect to run around with it constantly on like old "no skill" Ember that ruined so many matches for so many people. Now you can play an Ember build that people -love- to see in the team instead of -hate-.

Fourth sentence, no idea what you are trying to get at with the launcher comment, and yes, we all know that different frames have different abilities. So congratulations, at least that part of the post is true.

Fifth sentence, I play lots of Banshee, have for years. The problem with Banshee is the need to target and hit the weak spots as opposed to headshots. With Ember ALL hits get the amplified damage. Moreover, Banshee's stun isn't part of the damage buffing skill like Ember's is, and Banshee can't spam its stun like Ember can. Ember is -not- "outclassed" by Banshee, the two frames are equivalent now with the exception that more noobs play Quake Spam Banshee now than noobs played Ember in the past. Same comparisons can be made with the other frames you mention, all good frames.

News for you, -anything- kills "on the low level."

Your last sentence is an inaccurate opinion. For instance, I'm neither a "fool," "new to the game," nor "like digging the worse (sic) things," nor are any other vets who use a Flash Ember for high level content as readily as any other strong buffing frame. Ember is just as good as any other frame in the game in high level, better than lots.

Edited May 3, 2018 by Buttaface