The energy-drain nullifier portal LIMITS the ways in which you can play

[IsaacEyes]

It's an interesting mechanic, but lets not mince words, this game mode is devastating to any build that uses abilities inefficiently (so any build with blind rage). I want to test out how viable my Rhino-Sobek combination is, but without an EV Trinity present I have to resort to a syndicate proc in order to generate energy anywhere near as quickly as I'd like. The mode already spawns a large number of leech eximus units

My procedure normally with Rhino: 1. Operator mode to gain a little more energy 2. Cast Iron skin 3. Cast Roar 4. Shoot Sobek a few times and watch death explode in a joyous cacophony 5. Repeat from 1 and use ironclad charge to reinforce new iron skin cast.

My procedure in Onslaught: 1: Dash as operator 2: Switch to Synoid gammacore 3. Shoot things and wait for proc 4. Cast Iron skin 5. Proc Gammacore again 6. Cast Roar 7. Switch to Sobek and finally start dealing significant AOE damage 8. Give up and just start cheesing it with a meme strike atterax, because you'll only have to repeat this ordeal a minute or so in the future.

I don't want to give the appearance that I hate this game mode, it is really fun to run Diablo like rifts, but DE have essentially made most energy intensive builds completely unviable simply due to this mechanic. If more mechanics were added eg/ some portals halved health, others limit damage for 10 seconds, ability range is halved etc then I could see it being more fair across the board to a wide range of builds.

 

[Nazrethim]

DE could also nerf leech eximi or rework the energy system to be less punishing to any build without max efficiency (and probably nerf efficiency in the process to balance it out, it's long overdue)

[Voltage]

6 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

DE could also nerf leech eximi or rework the energy system to be less punishing to any build without max efficiency (and probably nerf efficiency in the process to balance it out, it's long overdue)

The entire point of caster frames is to balance efficiency and casting abilities. If you are unable to run max efficiency, run energize and zenurik. The options are available. We don't need to rework the energy economy. There are so many ways to get energy that maximum efficiency isn't always necessary for casters.

If you have an issue with energy, then you need to change your mod and gear setup. It is that simple. I don't have energy problems, and when I do, I always have pads just in case. Since the removal of trials, I haven't used more than 100 pads in a month or so. PS: I play a lot of Nova Prime.

Edited April 26, 2018 by --Q--Voltage

[IsaacEyes]

4 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

If you have an issue with energy, then you need to change your mod and gear setup. It is that simple. I don't have energy problems, and when I do, I always have pads just in case. Since the removal of trials, I haven't used more than 100 pads in a month or so. PS: I play a lot of Nova Prime.

You can't use energy pads in Elite onslaught...

[Voltage]

3 minutes ago, IsaacEyes said:

You can't use energy pads in Elite onslaught...

I know this, and I never have energy problems in onslaught. Use proper arcanes and focus schools. It isn't a problem with the energy economy or efficiency because you are ill-equipped.

[peterc3]

11 hours ago, IsaacEyes said:

so any build with blind rage

You do understand that the negative efficiency on this mod is supposed to be a downside, right?

[seprent]

if you play with friends consider asking them for one to go trinity EV besides that i prefer using rakta weapons for my energy procs inaros with the dark dagger just try and stop my energy and i scooped up some efficiency 

[FireSegment]

well ... i can propose a simple suggestion for this case: make the starting energy of each zone base on modded energy capacity instead of based energy stats like currently. For example, currently saryn start with 50 energy every zone while volt prime start with 125 energy. (or the starting energy could base on efficiency, i don't know how this one work in detail but i guess DE can deal with the number if they want to)

also for the discussion up there, i believe the debate between: 

 - "we already have energy regen options" and

 - "the game mode shouldn't need a fully upgrade zenurik and energize set to be enjoyable"

 are neglecting the cooperative element. Both of the effect benefit your team if they are close enough. Those who haven't complete the focus and arcane grind yet can still enjoy the ride if they can find the right teammate (yes it would be inconsistent in pub, but what doesn't in pub @_@ ). Or at least that's how i make sense of it so far

 

[Nazrethim]

hace 2 horas, FireSegment dijo:

. Or at least that's how i make sense of it so far

My point was more about closing the gap between "I have infinite energy to spam spam spam everything" and "I'm so energy starved I may as well be playing a regular shooter/hack&slash with some fancy jump mechanics" by nerfing the former and buffing the latter.

[Music4Therapy]

6 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

I know this, and I never have energy problems in onslaught. Use proper arcanes and focus schools. It isn't a problem with the energy economy or efficiency because you are ill-equipped.

EXACTLY!!!

*Plays elite game mode and refuses to alter build to handle the conditions*

"omg this *ELITE* gamemode needs to be changed so I can run corrupted mods that tank my efficiency"

[Altre]

16 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

My point was more about closing the gap between "I have infinite energy to spam spam spam everything" and "I'm so energy starved I may as well be playing a regular shooter/hack&slash with some fancy jump mechanics" by nerfing the former and buffing the latter.

Just tried making a post earlier today offering an alternative to our current energy system and it was clear that people have settled for the junk system we have now. It's a hard sell around here...

[GPrime96]

16 hours ago, IsaacEyes said:

It's an interesting mechanic, but lets not mince words, this game mode is devastating to any build that uses abilities inefficiently (so any build with blind rage). I want to test out how viable my Rhino-Sobek combination is, but without an EV Trinity present I have to resort to a syndicate proc in order to generate energy anywhere near as quickly as I'd like. The mode already spawns a large number of leech eximus units

My procedure normally with Rhino: 1. Operator mode to gain a little more energy 2. Cast Iron skin 3. Cast Roar 4. Shoot Sobek a few times and watch death explode in a joyous cacophony 5. Repeat from 1 and use ironclad charge to reinforce new iron skin cast.

My procedure in Onslaught: 1: Dash as operator 2: Switch to Synoid gammacore 3. Shoot things and wait for proc 4. Cast Iron skin 5. Proc Gammacore again 6. Cast Roar 7. Switch to Sobek and finally start dealing significant AOE damage 8. Give up and just start cheesing it with a meme strike atterax, because you'll only have to repeat this ordeal a minute or so in the future.

I don't want to give the appearance that I hate this game mode, it is really fun to run Diablo like rifts, but DE have essentially made most energy intensive builds completely unviable simply due to this mechanic. If more mechanics were added eg/ some portals halved health, others limit damage for 10 seconds, ability range is halved etc then I could see it being more fair across the board to a wide range of builds.

 

Rage/Hunter Adrenaline is pretty useful in the Onslaught since you can get energy back from getting hit and This game mode love giving you Energy Leechs and Magnetic bubbles. Valkyr with Eternal War can manage her energy with Hunter Adrenaline since she got chunk of Armor. A Alternative would Obviously be a EV Trinity. Also the enemies don't drop Energy Orbs which makes energy hungry frames even harder to use.

[Wesgile]

So it's zenurik with arcane energize, or bust.

And that's a good thing!

/s

[Deniiiise]

13 hours ago, --Q--Voltage said:

I know this, and I never have energy problems in onslaught. Use proper arcanes and focus schools. It isn't a problem with the energy economy or efficiency because you are ill-equipped.

Yes, use arcanes, an endgame thing you'll need ages to get a set of and I believe it's right now around 2500 Plat for a full set, which should really come as an indicator that it's not entirely easy to get a hold of. Not to mention it doesn't drop all that reliably and you need 10 of them.
Edit: Oh and let's not forget the gigantic grind required to get an Amp that actually works on Eidolons you'd need first. Unless you're being carried.

Or use that focus school which requires an ungodly amount of dull grinding, not to mention the euthanizing thrill of grinding for lenses over and over. Lenses are already a completely daft and staggeringly stupid concept to begin with in a game that's all about switching frames and weapons all the time, but that's not actually the discussion here, I know.

Normal Onslaught is FAR from endgame content. It's starchart-level content you get to after what, a few days of ingame time played if you got to learn everything first?

The portals are a symptom of the energy system as a whole being archaic and stupid. It's the frames' abilities that make Warframe fun. Because let's for a minute here assume we can't use their abilities, what remains? A TPS shooter with a funnier than usual movement system. And now suddenly all the frames play the same. Their abilities make all the difference.

Arcanes and Focus schools can't be expected to be had at the point you play normal mode Onslaught. For Elite Onslaught, sure, why not.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Deniiiise

[Nazrethim]

hace 7 horas, Altre dijo:

Just tried making a post earlier today offering an alternative to our current energy system and it was clear that people have settled for the junk system we have now. It's a hard sell around here...

I wouldn't mind if the current system stayed, I would just like alternatives to it. For example, look at WoW's design: in the past every healer and caster (and hunters, oddly enough) had mana, which didn't really regenerate in combat (bar certain talents and gear, let's call these "zenurik and arcanes/mods". Nowadays, they do have mana, but they aren't burdened by it, instead the shift turned to game mechanics. Look for example at the Monk class. If you assume players always have energy to use abilities, then you can really start balancing how long they take to recover, how powerful they are, etc etc.

Imagine this scenario: Rage no longer gives a % of damage taken as energy, but rather give you an energy regen buff, same for energize, pizzas were on a 1min cooldown and gave less (also adding another energy buff) and Efficiency flat out was removed, and EV also stopped existing. A huge nerf, right? but what if I tell you now all frames have passive energy regen, abilities working on charges rather than energy or having short cooldowns (or average cooldowns that can be reset faster if you do certain actions) and abilities meant to be used not as often (ie: Ultimates) were truly powerful (think "Original Blessing" powerful) ? Suddently the game shifts more towards players actually having to know how to play beyond pressing the same buttons over and over.

This also frees DE to give frames their own resources or energy systems and create true synergy between abilities. Say Trinity gets a new single target Nuke/Singel target heal as 1, Link and some other buff/spell as 3, and every time you use them, you build towards a Blessing (closer in power to the original). Now your Trinity goes around using her other support spells and either choosing to use Blessing on charge or bank it for a dire situation.

[Altre]

That's pretty much what I'm saying here. If you'd like to, throw some thoughts around in my thread. :D

It's kind of alarming to me that they claimed that this mode would be a new way to gain focus, then shut down ability usage at the start. I think that this would be better done as FireSegment said, as well as having an innate energy regen. Unless they intend for us to gain relatively decent amount of focus and efficiency with weapons alone, in which case they need to wholly modify how much we get per enemy.