So about being invisible

[Strawberries]

Can we talk about this? It's far more obvious during the razorback mission but invisible in this game is more or less just we can still see you we're just not going to attack you. Razorback cares not if you're cloaked as Loki or whoever else you're playing as, his rockets when he fires them will follow you regardless if you were invisible or not. Ever go into a survival mission as Ivara and wander around in prowl before you even see anyone? The spawns will all just follow you around and try to block you into a corner.

So DE. Can invisibility really be actual invisibility? Or can you just call it please-don't-shoot-me, since that's all it does if we're lucky.

[Rabbid-]

You can juke the rockets to hit the pillars, it's not that hard

[Strawberries]

It's not just about the rockets. That and you can't move when you're hacking so yes, please tell me how you juke rockets in the middle of a hack.

[(XBOX)ShadowBlood89]

on razor back it simpler for them to have it target you regardless of you being seen or not as if you cloaked after it fired the rockets it should shoot at your last known location but n.n;; game is strained on memory an staff sometimes can be lazy on details.
like person said you can hide behind a pillar if you want to avoid the damage, or if your far enough use the special thing that makes you leave your warframe as ;D it cant be damaged long as no continuous abilities are still active on it

now on the ivara part if you touch a enemy they will be semi alerted as something bumped into them
if you fire something that doesnt break the stealth but doesnt kill the enemy will still alert them to find you
same thing if you use melee an dont kill them.
there also the fact that enemies are all not spawned in on  the map when you load into a mission an spawn in rooms an places near you within certain radius, so they can seem like following you.
Also in missions like surv they are already alerted to you so being cloaked will not matter to much as they are looking for you.

[(XBOX)ShadowBlood89]

19 minutes ago, Strawberries said:

It's not just about the rockets. That and you can't move when you're hacking so yes, please tell me how you juke rockets in the middle of a hack.

use nyx with assimlate augment to guard your booty
hack terminal
mind control bursa  once it on the ground as this saves you time as will still count towards damaging the razor back

Edited May 8, 2018 by (XB1)ShadowBlood89

[Sitchrea]

All games do this. It's how AI in videogames work. Videgames have two different AI's dictating enemy logic - the Macro AI and the Micro AI.

The Macro AI tracks the player's position/actions while directing the individual enemies toward the player/objective, but without any specific orders.

The Micro AI are the individual enemies who communicate to other Micro AI's and receive direction from the Macro.

Rockets and heat-seeking projectiles in Warframe are under the control of the Macro AI, likely due to enemies launching a dozen missiles per attack would cause extreme lag if each missile had its own Micro AI. DE might be able to change it, but would likely take a lot of work.

Either way, that's why sometimes your invisibility seems to not work. Don't believe me? Stand invisible in the middle of a hallway on the Kuva Fortress and see how many individual enemies approach you for no reason. Well, there is a reason - it's Macro AI telling them where you are, it's just their Micro hasn't detected you yet.

[midtarget]

That's how invisibility works in video games, the computer doesn't really see you as invisible, your avatar is still data being tracked, if you want 'true invisibility' then driven entities need to be told to ignore you completely, which is quite hard for a horde style game, the engine wasn't designed for that, though you might get away with it if the computers simply get a second tree that starts working when they didn't detect you/ invisible, but that would take some time.

[YUNoJump]

The rockets still home on you because they're probably just heat-seeking rockets. From a mechanical perspective it's probably just that they don't have the code that recognises invisibility, but I'd say that heat-seeking is a reasonable in-game excuse.

As for enemies passive-aggressively following you, I don't think it's really that bad of an issue. In all of my time playing as an invisibility frame, I've never actually been deliberately shot by an enemy while invisible, because even though they might move around you, it takes them a long time before they actually figure it out. Additionally, you can kill them while they are doing this, and you even get a damage boost on such an action.

Invisibility is essentially a form of Damage Reduction; it prevents you from taking damage, with the additional feature of being completely unaffected by enemy scaling. The fact that enemies can sniff around for you is designed to balance this scaling negation, as other forms of DR are less effective at higher levels. If you could just glide through missions without ever facing a single bit of challenge from enemies regardless of level, it'd be OP as hell.

[Rabbid-]

42 minutes ago, Strawberries said:

It's not just about the rockets. That and you can't move when you're hacking so yes, please tell me how you juke rockets in the middle of a hack.

Don't hack when there are rockets coming at you, do I really have to tell you this?

[ReinAxefury]

43 minutes ago, Strawberries said:

It's not just about the rockets. That and you can't move when you're hacking so yes, please tell me how you juke rockets in the middle of a hack.

Hack on spoiler mode.

[Ozamchist]

You know Loki has the highest base sprint speed in the game right? Use it.

[BL4CKN0ISE]

58 minutes ago, Strawberries said:

Can we talk about this? It's far more obvious during the razorback mission but invisible in this game is more or less just we can still see you we're just not going to attack you. Razorback cares not if you're cloaked as Loki or whoever else you're playing as, his rockets when he fires them will follow you regardless if you were invisible or not. Ever go into a survival mission as Ivara and wander around in prowl before you even see anyone? The spawns will all just follow you around and try to block you into a corner.

So DE. Can invisibility really be actual invisibility? Or can you just call it please-don't-shoot-me, since that's all it does if we're lucky.

In Warframe it's also about the alert status. There's a big difference between a spy mission and a survival mission. In a survival mission the enemies are constantly in a "cautious" state, so even if you're invisible, they will try to find you. In a spy, you can keep them unalerted the entire time by staying invisible. Enemies will behave very differently like casually talking to each other, doing simple tasks, etc. Just try to learn about the enemy alert status. 

[Doomsknightmare]

Invisibility is already OP in this game. Just get good.

[o.0-]

I wonder how the logic rules are written for the AI Routines? Would be nice to see enemies behave smarter with a little nuance here and there.

I still remember Steve showing the room where the devs stress test the AI. If I could, I'd love to do something like tinker with the enemies all day to tease out more out of combat behavior, and add to what they do during combat. Grineer have those newer workers on certain tiles, so it all depends on how that works with what the game engine can handle.

[Morthal]

Agree with OP, invisibility doesn't work 100% of the time, regardless of all the excuses people keep coming up with. Without changing the topic, which a lot here seem to want, proper stealth needs to be consistent especially when it concerns Loki, Ivara, Ash, who rely on stealth abilities, to keep themselves alive. 

Now to give my own 'well why don't you just..." 
Use Inaros: Invisibility problems solved, ya dingus!
Now imagine if Rhino Iron Skin didn't protect you from those same homing missiles and caused knockback/damage through the ability. Same for Inaros' augment which prevents status at cost of scarab armor, if it was rendered useless against homing missiles, what excuse could I come up with? 

Maybe it's just the QA Tester in me but, I'd rather bugs just get reported and fixed is all. No excuses. 

[Siilk]

On 5/8/2018 at 1:02 PM, (XB1)ShadowBlood89 said:

use nyx with assimlate augment to guard your booty
hack terminal
mind control bursa  once it on the ground as this saves you time as will still count towards damaging the razor back

Or you can just mind control the bursa while it is on it's balcony. They can shoot the Razorback from there no probs 90% of the time and when they can't just try a different bursa. No hacking involved, just some jumping and pressing 1.

 

On 5/8/2018 at 12:42 PM, Strawberries said:

So DE. Can invisibility really be actual invisibility? Or can you just call it please-don't-shoot-me, since that's all it does if we're lucky.

Given 99% of players treat "stealth" gameplay as "running around like a headless chicken and shooting mobs with largest and loudest gun possible while being invisible", current invisibility serves most players just about right. Now if warframe would have any kind of proper stealth missions... But who am I kidding? Warframe ceased to even pretend to be anything but a horde shooter long time ago.

[W3zeer]

I'd rather have more attacks that ignore our stealth=god mode gameplay...as long as you can counterplay it. Meaning well announced and dodgeable attacks. Homing missiles in warframe tend to move so slow though, that they have no problems making several 180° turns to finally hit you 😄

[Strawberries]

On 2018-05-07 at 8:42 PM, Rabbid- said:

Don't hack when there are rockets coming at you, do I really have to tell you this?

It can fire rockets while you're hacking. Do I really have to tell you this?

It's not that I don't know how to get around the rockets, just annoying invisibility isn't invisibility at times. I'm lazy, if I'm invisible I want to be able to run around and do S#&$ without having to deal with enemies chasing me cause they magically can see me but wont shoot. If I'm shooting at them, by all means chase me.

[Waffenheimer]

On 2018-05-07 at 8:00 PM, Strawberries said:

It's not just about the rockets. That and you can't move when you're hacking so yes, please tell me how you juke rockets in the middle of a hack.

you play Mirage so you just don't take any damage as the hacking terminals are "in darkness" 😉

 

why fart around with being "invisible" when you can easily be "invincible" in this game !

Edited May 10, 2018 by Waffenheimer

[Siilk]

On 5/10/2018 at 1:06 PM, Waffenheimer said:

you play Mirage so you just don't take any damage as the hacking terminals are "in darkness" 😉

I think you misspelled Rhino. 😉

[Waffenheimer]

On 2018-05-10 at 9:36 PM, Siilk said:

I think you misspelled Rhino. 😉

rhino's iron skin can be dispelled by some bursas

[Siilk]

9 hours ago, Waffenheimer said:

rhino's iron skin can be dispelled by some bursas 

Just like Mirage's buffs, which can also be bypassed by AoE and status damage.