[22.20.5] Spores Revisited Feedback MEGATHREAD

[(PSN)Kairu_Aname]

1 hour ago, Reclaimer2448 said:

All of this sounds fun and reasonable.

It is a nice idea, but I don't think "Rejuvenating Molt" is a fitting name for something that removes status procs. Do they rename augments that they change the function of?

I do believe they have changed the names of mods they've changed the function of entirely. I don't remember any off the top of my head.

Though the name could feasibly be changed to "molting fury", or "Fluxing molt", or "revolting molt". 

It's suggestions

[MasaJin]

56 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Ive never seen enemies over lvl 244 but by that time i have to urinate so bad im ready to go xb.

No normal player goes that far lol why scale a frame for that kinda play it just makes me sad when spores clear an area now brings up more spawn issues when im waiting in a survival for them to respawn.

Tho big ups for them on that think i would loose it playing for so long

[(PSN)Radehx]

7 hours ago, SyBuhr said:

Toxic lash is pointless when Ignis pops all the spores, free of charge. I've used her abilities pretty thoroughly for the past few weeks, through all star-chart. I've recently moved to miasma, because it is just way more effective in general for what you get out of it, compared to her lash.

It really isn’t and by not using it, you are pissing away a significant damage boost. Toxic lash is probably her strongest ability and all you really need at low & mid levels. Spores are total overkill at those levels.

Edited June 11, 2018 by (PS4)Radehx

[DjKaplis]

Exactly what Radehx in comment above said - Toxic Lash is a good damage boost plus is guaranteed to proc toxin on enemies. 

 

Besides...Molt removes status effects from self, gives speed boost for some time and draws enemy aggro very well, which is really useful now when it can't be destroyed so easily by high level enemies anymore. Great survivability enhancing skill.

 

It isn't easy to give good feedback when you don't understand how some abilities work or in which situations and why they would be useful... Saryn is great, she has recieved increased damaging AND defensive potential after this rework. (and can still be used for debuffing with viral)

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

9 hours ago, MasaJin said:

No normal player goes that far lol why scale a frame for that kinda play it just makes me sad when spores clear an area now brings up more spawn issues when im waiting in a survival for them to respawn.

Tho big ups for them on that think i would loose it playing for so long

Indeed, i used to go lvl 200+ deep alot. Back when most of my friends played... Now not as much. Great testing ground though. Wish we had one node in each planet where enemies started at lvl 150.

[GPrime96]

16 minutes ago, (PS4)big_eviljak said:

Indeed, i used to go lvl 200+ deep alot. Back when most of my friends played... Now not as much. Great testing ground though. Wish we had one node in each planet where enemies started at lvl 150.

Or a Sortie with lvl 150 - 200 enemies.

[SyBuhr]

5 hours ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

It really isn’t and by not using it, you are pissing away a significant damage boost. Toxic lash is probably her strongest ability and all you really need at low & mid levels. Spores are total overkill at those levels.

 

4 hours ago, DjKaplis said:

Exactly what Radehx in comment above said - Toxic Lash is a good damage boost plus is guaranteed to proc toxin on enemies. 

 

Besides...Molt removes status effects from self, gives speed boost for some time and draws enemy aggro very well, which is really useful now when it can't be destroyed so easily by high level enemies anymore. Great survivability enhancing skill.

 

It isn't easy to give good feedback when you don't understand how some abilities work or in which situations and why they would be useful... Saryn is great, she has recieved increased damaging AND defensive potential after this rework. (and can still be used for debuffing with viral)

Molt's always removed status effects. The speed boost is strange, often unnecessary. Molt doesn't always draw aggro, which I've experienced from 2.0 to now. Wasn't as prevalent in 1.0. Molt has no synergies now as well, making it a Flight mechanic, more than a Fight mechanic (Similar to Loki's, who can use his to engage or disengage). The other issue is that you cannot use Molt in every Animation. You either have to be standing, Running, or in air (at certain frames, from what I've seen in Simulacrum). 

Toxic Lash is useless. Here's why: You could have that damage boost for level 30-50 enemies, sure. But why would I do that, when 2-3 other players will be DPS'ing them down to the point that the 35 energy I spent is useless? It becomes more practical then to Spore an enemy, use Ignis or a Shotty (Tigris) to kill and spread the spores, and then move on. This game is predominantly PVE, multiplayer. In a game inundated with DPS frames, your toxic lash, which requires you to hit an enemy one-at-a-time (unless you use AoE weapons), will not be as effective as your team-mate's Equinox, or Ash, who are just going to activate Bladestorm or Rend, and just kill everything around them, no aiming required. Sure, Toxic Lash could be useful in high-level missions, but at that point, you already have your infinitely scaling spores with infinite duration, that just require you to point-n-click twice to get them going. And spoilers, Spores and Toxic Lash will become pointless too, if your team is just absolutely destroying enemies too quickly.

Same reason why spores are more effective than Toxic Lash, don't need to see. Same Reason why Miasma is better than toxic Lash; Offers all the benefits, is an AOE (meaning if you have ranged spores, your Miasma is benefited and is more useful), stuns, and virals. So yea, Toxic Lash's little damage boost is a pittance to her main abilities in her kit, and even more so if she has a decent primary that will practically pop spores on it's own.

Toxic Lash is only good against certain factions (Corpus in particular). Venomous ancients will render it's buff useless, meaning if someone is marked by New Loka, and they spawn, tough S#&$, better find that one Toxic or Venomous Ancient and kill it, or wait for your two other DPS team-mates to do it, or use Spores.

She really can't be used for Debuffing Via Miasma (her only viral ability), unless you want to spam your 4 key every other second each time new enemies spawn in. And spoiler warning, I've tried it, and it isn't fun, especially when you are rooted in place (unless you glide, of course) just waiting to be picked off. 

 

"It isn't easy to give good feedback when you don't understand how some abilities work or in which situations and why they would be useful"

Tell me more about this, because it doesn't really seem like you've really even tried out various builds. It seems more like you are gushing over her DPS now, and have never even played her during her 1.0 and 2.0 time.

[(PSN)Radehx]

58 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:

 

Molt's always removed status effects. The speed boost is strange, often unnecessary. Molt doesn't always draw aggro, which I've experienced from 2.0 to now. Wasn't as prevalent in 1.0. Molt has no synergies now as well, making it a Flight mechanic, more than a Fight mechanic (Similar to Loki's, who can use his to engage or disengage). The other issue is that you cannot use Molt in every Animation. You either have to be standing, Running, or in air (at certain frames, from what I've seen in Simulacrum). 

Toxic Lash is useless. Here's why: You could have that damage boost for level 30-50 enemies, sure. But why would I do that, when 2-3 other players will be DPS'ing them down to the point that the 35 energy I spent is useless? It becomes more practical then to Spore an enemy, use Ignis or a Shotty (Tigris) to kill and spread the spores, and then move on. This game is predominantly PVE, multiplayer. In a game inundated with DPS frames, your toxic lash, which requires you to hit an enemy one-at-a-time (unless you use AoE weapons), will not be as effective as your team-mate's Equinox, or Ash, who are just going to activate Bladestorm or Rend, and just kill everything around them, no aiming required. Sure, Toxic Lash could be useful in high-level missions, but at that point, you already have your infinitely scaling spores with infinite duration, that just require you to point-n-click twice to get them going. And spoilers, Spores and Toxic Lash will become pointless too, if your team is just absolutely destroying enemies too quickly.

Same reason why spores are more effective than Toxic Lash, don't need to see. Same Reason why Miasma is better than toxic Lash; Offers all the benefits, is an AOE (meaning if you have ranged spores, your Miasma is benefited and is more useful), stuns, and virals. So yea, Toxic Lash's little damage boost is a pittance to her main abilities in her kit, and even more so if she has a decent primary that will practically pop spores on it's own.

Toxic Lash is only good against certain factions (Corpus in particular). Venomous ancients will render it's buff useless, meaning if someone is marked by New Loka, and they spawn, tough S#&$, better find that one Toxic or Venomous Ancient and kill it, or wait for your two other DPS team-mates to do it, or use Spores.

She really can't be used for Debuffing Via Miasma (her only viral ability), unless you want to spam your 4 key every other second each time new enemies spawn in. And spoiler warning, I've tried it, and it isn't fun, especially when you are rooted in place (unless you glide, of course) just waiting to be picked off. 

 

"It isn't easy to give good feedback when you don't understand how some abilities work or in which situations and why they would be useful"

Tell me more about this, because it doesn't really seem like you've really even tried out various builds. It seems more like you are gushing over her DPS now, and have never even played her during her 1.0 and 2.0 time.

Right...then why bother fitting any damage mods onto your weapon? Toxic Lash basically turns any weapon into god tier...it's pretty much like fitting an extra riven at very little cost. That's on top of freeing you up to use whatever weapon you want to spread spores. 

Saryn's entire strength is that she has an answer to ALL types of enemies. She can strip armor AND destroy health all in one convenient frame. Miasma falls off relatively quickly, especially if your main weapon already has viral damage (which it should!).

[DjKaplis]

56 minutes ago, SyBuhr said:

Tell me more about this, because it doesn't really seem like you've really even tried out various builds. It seems more like you are gushing over her DPS now, and have never even played her during her 1.0 and 2.0 time.

Haven't played 1.0, have played 2.0 a lot (Saryn is my most used frame currently). Her dps was awesome at 2.0 too, survivability a bit lacking. Both of those have been improved now.

From the way you keep talking about Toxic Lash and Molt (and the god damn ignis everytime) it really seems that you are the less experienced Saryn player. I stopped using ignis on Saryn 2.0 long ago when it was quite clear that you could get better results with toxic lash + melee to spread spores and give them extra damage. And now these is even better reason to use Toxic lash as you can reliably spread spores with just any weapon you want to use + that bonus damage.

 

But go ahead, ignore other player's advice, keep using only 1 or sometimes 2 of her abilities and then complain that Saryn doesn't seem too good to you. If that's what you want to do, we won't stop you, everyone can play as he/she wants.

 

[Rankii]

On 2018-06-09 at 7:33 AM, SyBuhr said:

Let me dissect this for you a bit then, because you miss my reasoning for not liking the new Saryn.

Firstly, I want to mention this line, because this bothers me:

Let's begin with the argument "He has many videos, so he must be right" fallacy. Just because someone sits at their monitor, and gushes over a frame's rework, doesn't mean he knows what he's talking about, just like how I sit at my monitor and critique a frame's rework doesn't mean I know what I am talking about. I have seen his videos, and they are literally just a bunch of memes thrown in, such as "god, she thicc now". Let's take DarkSydePhil, he has a ton of Youtube game videos, right? He must know how to play those games! You see the point I am making. Secondly, that "And Sorry" statement is just plan out unnecessary and condescending. Life isn't this game of "The Popular Person should only speak for us" sort of drivel. 

Now, let's begin with the real meat of the issue, since you didn't bother to read any of my earlier posts, which is clear, because I made my stance in those posts practically transparent.

She's buffed in the sense that, yes, she can put out ridiculous damage numbers especially when certain conditions are met. She has become a better DPS frame because of this.

However, she has been "Nerfed" in the sense that, she is more limited in play-styles and builds. You are not going to see a Debuff Saryn now, anymore because of this change in design. Her over-arching design has forced a Selfish-Saryn playstyle. If you have more than one Saryn in your PUG, one of them is going to be a useless tool trying to be useful. If you have another DPS frame other than that Saryn, they will also either end up a Useless tool, or gimp the Saryn. Why? Because team-mates hinder spreads if they don't shoot the spores (which they have to, it can't just be killed), because there are a ton of other DPS frames that fill the role just as well, and will be competing to get kills, because that's their playstyle too.

Everyone here agrees that she has ludicrous damage, no one is going to ever dispute that. People (such as myself) may dispute the inconsistent mechanics behind those, or the selfish-playstyles it creates, but no one here is insane enough to say her damage is poor. We can say that she functions poorly on low-mid level missions, and shines the best when in high end missions, and in Onslaught. Even then, that's iffy, depending on faction. We can theorize that she has been potentially balanced around a game-mode not representing roughly %65 of what Warframe offers. We can say all those things, and be correct (or relatively so) in our assertions, because that's what is evident to us thus far.

Saryn is not necessarily better than she was before, due to the fact that she has now had her entire Debuff design gutted. Why should I bother Debuffing enemies, especially when the most used Aura in the game already strips that armor away from everyone? Why should I use Miasma, when an Ignis will offer just as decent results in spreading? Why should I mod for damage, when it will scale infinitely? Why should I mod for anything other than spores at this point? Molt has no Synergies at all, Toxic Lash is a less effecient Miasma (and why use it when you can bring an Ignis that will always pop spores), Miasma is still Miasma, and is now more frequently spammed then ever before. This is all indication of poorly planned design. Does it mean it's the worst? Heavens, NO. But it does mean that somewhere, things changed, and it has narrowed her Viable Playstyles.

Essentially, now you only have two predominant playstyles: Power Strength, and Range. Why? Because the range will offer you more enemies effected. Power-strength to kill those enemies. To say she's better in this regard, is just plan silly, and shows that Rio only cares about high DPS. Which is fine, but it wasn't Saryn's intended design, as a Debuff frame. To put it in perspective, She could dish out this damage during her 2.0 time nearly instantly with a decent enough setup, and a good enough riven, while offering a Debuff (Viral) that nothing else in the game offers in the same scale and scope.

Now, if your Team-mates have Corrosive Projection, You've lost that minuscule Debuff potential. Again, why do anything other than Spores? Spores will always kill now, and for everyone who LOVES DPS frames (because we totally don't have enough of those, cough equinox, Octavia, Mirage, Ash, Nidus, cough), this rework is great.

But what about the people who loved her as a Debuff support frame? Well, tough S#&$ lad, because the only miniscule debuff she has (corrosive on spores), is practically the most used Aura and Element on weapons. Viral at 75 base energy isn't even worth it at that point, just put it on your Ignis Wraith, because why wouldn't you use that weapon (and only that) on Saryn at this point. Only purpose for Miasma is those last second spore spreads, that's it. 

This is what I mean by a nerf. You have only one play-style: Kill everything, be as selfish as possible, your team is literally a hindrance to you. It isn't a good design choice to force that, when the amount of DPS frames are already pretty filled out, and are the go-to for most PUG players (so that they can "Carry Their Team"). Why should I play any other DPS frame now? There's only one reason: Because your PUGs are going to be assaulted with 2-3 Saryn players, and there are only so many slots for spores to be on an enemy. Saryn's are literally CHOKING out other DPS frames and other Saryns. Hell, Saryn is choking out practically everything.

Is that good design to you? Is she in a better spot now because of that? Is that what you really want a Frame to be? I can't tell you how many games have been Disbanded once the host saw I was Saryn. It must be like 20 or so at this point. I can't tell you how many games people actively worked against me, by killing enemies so quick that I just become a useless twat. I can't tell you how unenthused players get, when all they have to do is sit around and let the Saryn work. It is the most boring, un-fun experience I've had. It isn't what a Team-Shooter is supposed to be, where only one frame goes around doing S#&$, and all the other sit, dance, or t-bag 24/7 until the mission ends. Don't get me wrong, I like what they did in terms of them taking a risk, but it didn't pay off in my eyes.

If you like DPS frames, where you are the only person playing, and your team-mates are complete hindrance to you, She is now PERFECT for you.

For everyone else who actually enjoys trying to play the game in a team-shooter, look else-where, or play Solo. (Something I've been told to do in squad chat.)

In a game that is multiplayer predominantly, it is ironic, that your Spores are more valuable to you (The player) than your actual team-mates. Say a team-mate went down somewhere, am I going to risk my spores and stacks to go save that person? Hell NO. They better waste their revive, and that's the sentiment I feel now, that is the MANTRA that Saryn exudes now. Before I'd say, "Doesn't matter, spores will spread passively, Spores will debuff and do their primary job, my team mates are still going to enjoy playing so idrgaf lol hehe xd".

None of what she offers now, offers that. If you actually read anything I've said, you'd know that. Hell, if you played her during her 2.0 time, you'd know that, it'd be evident as day! 

When I play with another Saryn, I literally get up, run to Subway and get a Teriyaki Chicken sub Footlong, eat it at my computer, move occasionally, and guess what, mission Success. Why should I bother playing, when I myself have first-hand experience knowing what it is like when a Team-mate tries to play with me as Saryn? I know as a team-mate, I am just going to get in the way, and that isn't a buff. Don't get me wrong, I still go to extract with the team and all, but why should I bother doing literally anything other than Moving, breathing, and eating my Sub?

 

TL;DR : Take a knee for a moment, stop saying Sorry, you'll end up a Sorry Individual. While your at it, re-read the posts I've put in this thread, because you clearly don't understand why I don't like her now as opposed to before. If you can't bother to read the wall of text the first time to truly understand why I don't like a frame, and have no interest in an honest conversation to make her better, than I have nothing left to say to you. I don't think we disagree that she's become an awesome DPS frame, to the point that many are fore-going other frames. But design-wise, she has fewer viable play-styles offered, and she is choking out other team-mates from enjoying a team-based game.

I don't have anything to add but this nailed it on the head.

[(PSN)Radehx]

People totally underestimate true damage of Saryn 3.5 compared to the old one. She can now reliably strip armor which is a HUGE damage boost, especially at higher levels. You have to look at those damage ticks taking into consideration this is on top of totally removing armor too. One frame stripping armor and nuking health...yes please!

Feel free to criticise Saryn, but if aren't happy with her insane scaling damage, you simply don't know how to play her well. She's a total damage monster now...at all levels.

Using my Glaive on Saryn feels like using it on Ash after stealth multipliers...that's how successfully she debuffs enemies.

Edited June 11, 2018 by (PS4)Radehx

[Rankii]

Just now, (PS4)Radehx said:

People totally underestimate true damage of Saryn 3.5 compared to the old one. She can now reliably strip armor which is a HUGE damage boost, especially at higher levels. You have to look at those damage ticks taking into consideration this is on top of totally removing armor too. One frame stripping armor and nuking health...yes please!

Feel free to criticise Saryn, but if aren't happy with her insane scaling damage, you simply don't know how to play her well. She's a total damage monster now...at all levels.

She did that before numbnuts. Only difference is now spores is a mess of anxiety and the rest of her kit is redundant at best and an active hinderance at worst.

[(PSN)Radehx]

Just now, Rankii said:

She did that before numbnuts. Only difference is now spores is a mess of anxiety and the rest of her kit is redundant at best and an active hinderance at worst.

No she didn't, the armor stripping with her old 4 was waaaay less effective. 

Spores is totally fine now if you bother practicing how to use them properly. Her entire kit is useful, with her 4 being the one falling off quickest. 

Like I said, she's a frame that can both reliably strip armor and halve health. If you don't understand how that's insanely useful for teams, I can't help you.

[Rankii]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

No she didn't, the armor stripping with her old 4 was waaaay less effective. 

Spores is totally fine now if you bother practicing how to use them properly. Her entire kit is useful, with her 4 being the one falling off quickest. 

Like I said, she's a frame that can both reliably strip armor and halve health. If you don't understand how that's insanely useful for teams, I can't help you.

Molt and Lash are garbage. I've been using saryn since her first iteration and I'm telling you from literal years of experience that her kit is busted and not in a good way. 

[(PSN)Radehx]

2 minutes ago, Rankii said:

Molt and Lash are garbage. I've been using saryn since her first iteration and I'm telling you from literal years of experience that her kit is busted and not in a good way. 

Molt is amazing now and pulls aggro VERY reliably compared to before. I can pop it and dance next to lvl150 for a few seconds without ever getting hit! Toxic Lash provides an amazing damage boost and allows you to spread spores with EVERY weapon in game providing a lot of flexibility. It turns garbage (but fun) weapons into god tier. 

I don't care about you amazing experience if they don't match reality. She's one of the game's strongest frames though...hell, bar Octavia/Ivara, she's probably the strongest female frame in game. If you can't figure out how to effectively use her armor and health stripping, I don't know what to say. 

Edited June 11, 2018 by (PS4)Radehx

[MasaJin]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

No she didn't, the armor stripping with her old 4 was waaaay less effective. 

Spores is totally fine now if you bother practicing how to use them properly. Her entire kit is useful, with her 4 being the one falling off quickest. 

Like I said, she's a frame that can both reliably strip armor and halve health. If you don't understand how that's insanely useful for teams, I can't help you.

Her old 4 didn't proc corrosive if you know so much and she does great till a ancient appears or high lv shield osprey appear to stop mobs from taking any procs what so ever or even worse when corrupted use them both at once

[(PSN)Kairu_Aname]

Why are we back to her damage? Didn't we agree that wasn't the issue with her? That her damage was fine?

Edited June 11, 2018 by (PS4)Kairu_Aname
Spelling edits

[(PSN)Radehx]

2 minutes ago, MasaJin said:

Her old 4 didn't proc corrosive if you know so much and she does great till a ancient appears or high lv shield osprey appear to stop mobs from taking any procs what so ever or even worse when corrupted use them both at once

If you are clever, you at least one of your weapons for rad damage...and all your ancient issues are gone. Also, listing enemies that pose more issues for most other frames too is a bit comical. Fact is, she's one of the strongest frames in game and if you can't figure out how to play her well, it's on you, not the frame. People take her (solo) well into the 100 levels without any issues, so clearly the frame isn't the issue here. 

She can now strip armor and halve health as a single frame. Again, if you can't see the value in this, you're not a good Saryn player...or have never really played any higher level content.

[Rankii]

Just now, (PS4)Radehx said:

Most is amazing now and pulls aggro VERY reliably compared to before. Lash provides an amazing damage boost and allows you to spread spores with EVERY weapon in game providing a lot of flexibility. It turns garbage (but fun) weapons into god tier. 

I don't care about you amazing experience if they don't match reality. She's one of the game's strongest frames though...hell, bar Octavia/Ivara, she's probably the strongest female frame in game. If you can't figure out how to effectively use her armor and health stripping, I don't know what to say. 

Molt pulls aggro about as reliably as any other unit (loki's decoy, nekros' shadows, a spectre, etc) and rather than giving it a healing effect like everyone has wanted since forever, that gave it a speed buff for some reason. The few seconds of invulnerability are more of a obligation at this point than a buff, since nearly every barrier that can be summoned already has it (rhino's iron skin, frost's pain in the ass Snowglobe).

Lash turns garbage weapons into an inferior ignus. I like braton prime as much as the next guy but I'm not going to say that having it pop spores turns it into god-tier. I'm going to say "why aren't I just using ignus?" because at the end of the day lash's only purpose now is to spread spores. As is the rest of the kit. Except molt because people used that too much so they had to nerf it.

[(PSN)Radehx]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Kairu_Aname said:

Why are we back to her damage? Didn't we agree that wasn't the issue with her? That her damage was fine?

Application is perfectly fine too if you aren't a fool trying to apply spores to low level enemies that don't need the debuff.

[Rankii]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

If you are clever, you at least one of your weapons for rad damage...and all your ancient issues are gone. Also, listing enemies that pose more issues for most other frames too is a bit comical. Fact is, she's one of the strongest frames in game and if you can't figure out how to play her well, it's on you, not the frame. People take her (solo) well into the 100 levels without any issues, so clearly the frame isn't the issue here. 

She can now strip armor and halve health as a single frame. Again, if you can't see the value in this, you're not a good Saryn player...or have never really played any higher level content.

People take her solo because the moment another damage-dealing teammate shows up spore becomes considerably less effective  unless you actively try to "kill steal" to ensure spores spread. Because if ember came along and nuked a room with WoF (somehow), the spores won't spread since on-death spread doesn't exist except that one spore you stuck on an enemy a few rooms over. Also god help you if you have to keep reapplying spore because then your overal damage goes down and defeats the purpose.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Rankii

[(PSN)Radehx]

1 minute ago, Rankii said:

Molt pulls aggro about as reliably as any other unit (loki's decoy, nekros' shadows, a spectre, etc) and rather than giving it a healing effect like everyone has wanted since forever, that gave it a speed buff for some reason. The few seconds of invulnerability are more of a obligation at this point than a buff, since nearly every barrier that can be summoned already has it (rhino's iron skin, frost's pain in the ass Snowglobe).

Lash turns garbage weapons into an inferior ignus. I like braton prime as much as the next guy but I'm not going to say that having it pop spores turns it into god-tier. I'm going to say "why aren't I just using ignus?" because at the end of the day lash's only purpose now is to spread spores. As is the rest of the kit. Except molt because people used that too much so they had to nerf it.

The speed boost is helpful both because it boosts your melee damage immediately after dropping it and also because it allows you to get out of harm's way quickly...which makes molt pull aggro more reliably in quite a few situations. You get healing if you fit the augment and she has no fitting issues that should prevent you from doing so if you want healing. 

As for the lash comment, that's nonsense too. I can use a gun that is far superior to an Ignis and still get the same spore spreading benefits. And again, ignoring the damage buff for so little energy is laughable. It's an extra damage mod almost no energy. 

Again, people are soloing very high level content with her, so the issue isn't the frame...it's you not using it properly. 

[(PSN)Radehx]

1 minute ago, Rankii said:

People take her solo because the moment another damage-dealing teammate shows up spore becomes considerably less effective  unless you actively try to "kill steal" to ensure spores spread. Because if ember came along and nuked a room with WoF (somehow), the spores won't spread since on-death spread doesn't exist except that one spore you stuck on an enemy a few rooms over. Also god help you if you have to keep reapplying spore because then your overal damage goes down and defeats the purpose.

For crying out loud, I didn't say they only use her solo...there are a TON of high level team play videos online. The nuking doesn't happen anywhere but at really low levels.

[(PSN)big_eviljak]

1 hour ago, SyBuhr said:

 

Molt's always removed status effects. The speed boost is strange, often unnecessary. Molt doesn't always draw aggro, which I've experienced from 2.0 to now. Wasn't as prevalent in 1.0. Molt has no synergies now as well, making it a Flight mechanic, more than a Fight mechanic (Similar to Loki's, who can use his to engage or disengage). The other issue is that you cannot use Molt in every Animation. You either have to be standing, Running, or in air (at certain frames, from what I've seen in Simulacrum). 

Toxic Lash is useless. Here's why: You could have that damage boost for level 30-50 enemies, sure. But why would I do that, when 2-3 other players will be DPS'ing them down to the point that the 35 energy I spent is useless? It becomes more practical then to Spore an enemy, use Ignis or a Shotty (Tigris) to kill and spread the spores, and then move on. This game is predominantly PVE, multiplayer. In a game inundated with DPS frames, your toxic lash, which requires you to hit an enemy one-at-a-time (unless you use AoE weapons), will not be as effective as your team-mate's Equinox, or Ash, who are just going to activate Bladestorm or Rend, and just kill everything around them, no aiming required. Sure, Toxic Lash could be useful in high-level missions, but at that point, you already have your infinitely scaling spores with infinite duration, that just require you to point-n-click twice to get them going. And spoilers, Spores and Toxic Lash will become pointless too, if your team is just absolutely destroying enemies too quickly.

Same reason why spores are more effective than Toxic Lash, don't need to see. Same Reason why Miasma is better than toxic Lash; Offers all the benefits, is an AOE (meaning if you have ranged spores, your Miasma is benefited and is more useful), stuns, and virals. So yea, Toxic Lash's little damage boost is a pittance to her main abilities in her kit, and even more so if she has a decent primary that will practically pop spores on it's own.

Toxic Lash is only good against certain factions (Corpus in particular). Venomous ancients will render it's buff useless, meaning if someone is marked by New Loka, and they spawn, tough S#&$, better find that one Toxic or Venomous Ancient and kill it, or wait for your two other DPS team-mates to do it, or use Spores.

She really can't be used for Debuffing Via Miasma (her only viral ability), unless you want to spam your 4 key every other second each time new enemies spawn in. And spoiler warning, I've tried it, and it isn't fun, especially when you are rooted in place (unless you glide, of course) just waiting to be picked off. 

 

"It isn't easy to give good feedback when you don't understand how some abilities work or in which situations and why they would be useful"

Tell me more about this, because it doesn't really seem like you've really even tried out various builds. It seems more like you are gushing over her DPS now, and have never even played her during her 1.0 and 2.0 time.

One at a time? Are u playin the same saryn i am?

Try Toxic lash infused...

Amprex

Drakgoon

Azima

Arca plasmor

Kulstar

Orthos

Guandao

Bo prime

Sydon

Etc...

The list goes on... One at a time? Nah

[MasaJin]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Radehx said:

If you are clever, you at least one of your weapons for rad damage...and all your ancient issues are gone. Also, listing enemies that pose more issues for most other frames too is a bit comical. Fact is, she's one of the strongest frames in game and if you can't figure out how to play her well, it's on you, not the frame. People take her (solo) well into the 100 levels without any issues, so clearly the frame isn't the issue here. 

She can now strip armor and halve health as a single frame. Again, if you can't see the value in this, you're not a good Saryn player...or have never really played any higher level content.

Not all frames have that issue element damg is the only thing those protect against and the only damg saryn does. I don't get what your trying to say or do we see her value and we see her flaws which you seem blind to