Flanking Frame Tactics

[(PSN)Chel-El]

Is flanking even a concept for most WF players? I recently saw a movie with a flanking soldier who used smokescreen to do so. Incidentally, I read Ash’s wiki and it says he can flank, just forgot with which ability.

I ask now since we have known CC, DPS, Support and Spy frames. What’s your flanking frame, Tenno? 

 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by (PS4)Chel-El

[DatDarkOne]

Almost all of the Invis/stealth frames can flank the enemies.  Mag with Polarize augment can do it in some situations as well as Savage Silence Banshee.  

I've also been able to do it some times with Titania, but not often and only in RW mode using the butterflies as a distraction.  

[Kyoresh]

isnt flanking just coming from a different direction then the rest of your team?

[DatDarkOne]

Just now, Kyoresh said:

isnt flanking just coming from a different direction then the rest of your team?

Yes.  It's just a tactic rarely seen in public missions.  Well at least with the intention of doing so.  Outside of good Loki players that is.  😀 

[NinjaZeku]

I actually kinda prefer letting myself get surrounded and then unleashing some radial nuke pwnage
(that, optimally, buffs my Squad at the same time, yay e.g. Icy Avalanche / Capacitance / Crush).

[(PSN)Chel-El]

Flank actually means sides to describe anatomical parts. But in warfare it means to attack or protect from the sides 

Common jargon in PVP like Overwatch where I picked it up. 

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Chel-El said:

Flank actually means sides to describe anatomical parts. But in warfare it means to attack or protect from the sides 

Common jargon in PVP like Overwatch where I picked it up. 

It's also a military tactic that's been around for a few thousand years.  😀 

[Kyoresh]

9 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Yes.  It's just a tactic rarely seen in public missions.  Well at least with the intention of doing so.  Outside of good Loki players that is.  😀 

then why would anyone do that?^^ Isnt it kinda pointless?

[goga_gola]

if anything flanking is a terrible idea for most Warframes. You're separated from your team, enemies are likely to focus/rush you down if you're not invisible and enemies are infinitely respawning in most missions so you're not making a tactical breakthrough by getting behind one enemy. Not to mention how most enemies rarely take cover, and if they do it's not for long before they start running right back at you in a straight line.

Pure blitzkrieg or defensive playstyles is all this game has to offer in terms of strategy, the rest is down to builds and gimmicks you might be doing along the way.

Edited May 25, 2018 by goga_gola

[DatDarkOne]

6 minutes ago, Kyoresh said:

then why would anyone do that?^^ Isnt it kinda pointless?

Not really.  It would depend on a few things such as mission objective, group composition, and terrain.  

It can be done in Warframe.  But just like actually using stealth tactics, most Tenno don't bother to try.  They will usually just blitz through until they can't.  

One example of where you have to flank to succeed is the Lt. Kril boss fight.  

Edited May 25, 2018 by DatDarkOne
slight grammar correction

[Kyoresh]

18 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

One example of where you have to flank to succeed is the Lt. Kril boss fight.  

what? no offense but where would you need to flank him? 

I mean if you want to, sure play how you want 🙂 But this game has nothing difficult enough to requiriere tactics like that 😄 

 

18 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

until they can't.  

Which will never come for the people that know how to build their gear ^^

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by Kyoresh

[DatDarkOne]

17 minutes ago, Kyoresh said:

what? no offense but where would you need to flank him? 

I mean if you want to, sure play how you want 🙂 But this game has nothing difficult enough to requiriere tactics like that 😄 

 

Which will never come for the people that know how to build their gear ^^

 

What is the only way to beat Lt. Kril?  You have to distract him and attack his back.  Then you have to get him to use a charge attack so that he will freeze to make himself vulnerable.  Repeat until he's dead.  

That is flanking in it's purest form.  Now amount of gear, Warframe powers, players, and/or items will allow you to get around having to flank Lt. Kril to beat him.  Those things will only assist you in flanking him.  

Edited May 25, 2018 by DatDarkOne

[Furadow]

That's a bit stretching the definition of flanking. But even then, it's about the only place where you HAVE to use that tactic, and not because you want, but because you are forced to.

Flanking rest on the assumption that the enemy have its offensive power concentrated at the front. In warframe, all ranged mobs can aim anywhere with very little delay, so that assumption is broken, making flanking moot.

There also isn't any aggro like most RPGs (at least not that I'm aware off), and things just die too easily to even bother using any kind of strategy.

That's a bit sad for players who like challenges, but Warframe just isn't a challenging game. It's a grinding game. You have to accept it (or willfully impose restrictions on yourself to make it challenging, but then balance is bad because it's not designed for that).

 

[(PSN)Chel-El]

OW has main routes and side routes to the objectives. The hypermobile heroes can go in and out, those with gimmicks or nuke ultimates can launch their abilities from the flanks, while some just go for the key targets to weaken squads. 

In WF, any frame can be hypermobile with the right bullet jump mods. But the stealth frames won’t draw fire so the feeling of flanking successfully is achieved, I suppose. Those who can launch themselves further into enemy territory with teleport moves in theory can achieve this too. 

A soloist can also flank without the rest of the team nuking everything while he attempts to approach from a different angle. I’ve taken the sniper role and I know you can hit incoming squads from the sides as they storm the objective. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by (PS4)Chel-El

[Kyoresh]

3 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

What is the only way to beat Lt. Kril?  You have to distract him and attack his back.  Then you have to get him to use a charge attack so that he will freeze to make himself vulnerable.  Repeat until he's dead.  

That is flanking in it's purest form.  Now amount of gear, Warframe powers, players, and/or items will allow you to get around having to flank Lt. Kril to beat him.  Those things will only assist you in flanking him.  

not really. you can just spam melee on him or use punch through and just mindlessly fire at him. No need to jump around like a chicken ^^

[Tomppak]

Depends on how you define "flanking". I think that generally, flanking means that you attack from the side (instead of from the front) to deny cover from opponent.

You may occasionally flank targets partly by accident, but as a dedicated tactic - not really. Warframes are way too mobile (even without any bulletjump mods) and map parts often too small/enclosed to form a suitable "battlefield" to allow you to actually flank on purpose.

Stealth frames do it most often, but mostly for the fact a fragile frame standing in the middle of tough frames, will get gunned down by accident, even if invisible. 

Missions where flanking would be a possible tactic are also rare. Rescue, spy, sabotage, highjack, Capture - you don't need to fire a single shot to complete these (apart from the rescue target).
Exterminate: New players with low mods and low MR weapons might maybe try some tactics and take cover? But once you reach a certain point, you just rush through the map killing everything as you go. There's not much need for actual flanking.
Defense/Interception/survival: Enemies are rushing you, and often each player is sorta fighting in their own sector (or just breezing around the map). Tactics? Sure, you could employ them, but it's unlikely.
Mobile Defense: Like defense, but often less angles of attack. I guess you could flank in these on purpose, but again, it's more like "moving out of the way of fire before shooting" and less "tactically positioning yourself in relation to your teammates".

In short, enemies die too quickly, and frames don't tend to stay still long enough for actual positional tactics making a difference. 

Some bosses are the kind of enemies that you could use "flanking" against, but even then, it's more about moving yourself out of the way and less about the "moving to flank" part. Juggernaut, for example shoots spikes that easily kill frames. So try to avoid staying in a group with the others.
Hyena pack's are usually easier to kill if you position yourself, say, higher and away from your allies instead of getting all killed in the same AoE attack. But again, it's less about moving to the flank and more about not dying to AoE because you were in the same spot as everyone else.

Lastly - Rolling is a fast way to move. And Rolling reduces incoming damage by 75%. Fast moving targets are less likely to be hit. Move fast, move a lot, roll, dodge, jump, and focus on the enemy that you happen to have on your sights (or pick a priority target in case of some special units) - enemies don't take cover quick enough to react to the space ninjas jumping and darting around like, well, ninjas, to require actual cover-denying tactics. And it's not like enemies taking cover are a huge issue anyway, with all the AoE abilities.

[(PSN)Chel-El]

I don’t know how reliable that TLDR is when you have limited the definition of flanking to “cover denial” before refuting the entire idea. 

Anyone facing, going or firing a different direction can be flanked. It’s just a matter of repositioning.

The prime example Lech Kril (and his backpack weakspot) is not trying to hide, yet you still have to flank him from behind. 

Edited May 25, 2018 by (PS4)Chel-El

[(PSN)Chel-El]

On 2018-05-25 at 11:46 AM, DatDarkOne said:

Almost all of the Invis/stealth frames can flank the enemies.  Mag with Polarize augment can do it in some situations as well as Savage Silence Banshee.  

I've also been able to do it some times with Titania, but not often and only in RW mode using the butterflies as a distraction.  

Today I found out that void mode operator plus multiple void dashes does the same trick

So you got stealth and hypermobility in (every)one! 

Mix and match with operator slide, awareness of your squadmates and the minimap and you got flanking maneuvers for days. 

 

[(PSN)teacup775]

 

2 hours ago, (PS4)Chel-El said:

Today I found out that void mode operator plus multiple void dashes does the same trick

So you got stealth and hypermobility in (every)one! 

Mix and match with operator slide, awareness of your squadmates and the minimap and you got flanking maneuvers for days. 

 

Well, yes. Zenurik gives you a slow and a stun too. Magus Nourish infinite heals. Naramon is fun to play with for disarm and confuse.

[DatDarkOne]

3 hours ago, (PS4)Chel-El said:

Today I found out that void mode operator plus multiple void dashes does the same trick

So you got stealth and hypermobility in (every)one! 

Mix and match with operator slide, awareness of your squadmates and the minimap and you got flanking maneuvers for days. 

 

Cool.  I didn't think of that one myself.  Mostly because i loose enemy radar in operator mode, but It's still cool tactic.  Thanks.  

[(PSN)Chel-El]

The skill carrried over from flanking to spy missions, when operator void mode saved me several times when my stealth ability ran out 

[Tomppak]

Well, you need to define flanking somehow, or otherwise it'll mean different things for everyone. Wikipedia defines flanking as

" In military tactics, a flanking maneuver, or flanking manoeuvre is a movement of an armed force around a flank to achieve an advantageous position over an enemy. Flanking is useful because a force's offensive power is concentrated in its front. Therefore, to circumvent a force's front and attack a flank is to concentrate offense in the area when the enemy is least able to concentrate offense. "

The TLDR's prime point is that Flanking, really, means moving to the flank for an advantage. You don't get a damage bonus for attacking an enemy's side (you get it for shooting them in the head). They aren't any less capable of firing back (unless you are invisible or the enemy is dead). If you are invisible, the invisiblity is doing the work more often than not - not the fact that enemies have some how harder time to turn on the spot and fire at you - they totally don't. Besides, "movement of an armed force around to the flank"  isn't really a good description for what happens in the game, since the frames and battlefield move so fast.

How would you define flanking? What do you think it means?
If you by flanking, you literally mean "firing from a direction other than my squad mates are in", then yeah, you are flanking just about all the time.

Edited May 27, 2018 by Tomppak

[(PSN)Chel-El]

 

this is a good example of heroes who don’t practice flanking. the teleporting girl is creating flanking opportunities, the rest are trying to win by brute, frontal attacks. 

why argue semantics when we already established that flanking is a side/back attack? once a player intentionally positions to that advantageous angle, then it’s flanking. otherwise it’s still point and shoot. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by (PS4)Chel-El